Trader swap issue - EU server

agegarton

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

Lol. Epic. In the German forum......... awesome.

Thanks @anitajoneb17_ESO for sharing.

anitajoneb17_ESO

agegarton wrote: »

Lol. Epic. In the German forum......... awesome.

It's not the first time nor the first situation where @ZOS_KaiSchober gives better, clearer, more timely and more on-point information than the US community managers. There could be several explanations for that : time zone, german forum less flooded, or simply that he's eff' damn good at doing his job.

The problem is, every time he stepped onto the english-speaking forums to share such info with the entire community, and not only the german-speaking one, it seems like he "overstepped" and got into trouble internally. That's how it looked to me anyway. So it's up to us to keep an eye on german forums and share/translate (which we did on that occasion too).

tahol10069

@ZOS_GinaBruno What about the guilds that lost their bid money, got no trader and are now out of money for the next round? How can you keep overlooking this guestion for days?

(I once sat at the doctors office so long that they gave me what I needed. Too bad I can't do it with you, but I'm sure going to try).

rumple9

So what are they going to do about some mat (mostly tempers and platings) prices and the hyper inflation that has been caused ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

rumple9 wrote: »

So what are they going to do about some mat (mostly tempers and platings) prices and the hyper inflation that has been caused ?

There's nothing they can do or should do. Once the extra gold is removed from the economy, supply and demand will go back to their "usual" level (what they are under normal game circumstances) and prices will go back to normal. This will be quick. Players who "spent the gold" are now bankrupt and will need to sell quick in order to make some cash. Which means prices will fall rapidly.

Blobsky

rumple9 wrote: »

So what are they going to do about some mat (mostly tempers and platings) prices and the hyper inflation that has been caused ?

This should fix once there are real guild-stores in the game again xD

Mathius_Mordred

Well, they didn't take it all. We got an extra 10 million gold back and now we have just over 3 million left, looks like we made a profit of about 2 million gold, if this is pro-rata some of the bigger guilds may have made a few tens of millions still.

agegarton

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Lol. Epic. In the German forum......... awesome.

It's not the first time nor the first situation where @ZOS_KaiSchober gives better, clearer, more timely and more on-point information than the US community managers. There could be several explanations for that : time zone, german forum less flooded, or simply that he's eff' damn good at doing his job.

The problem is, every time he stepped onto the english-speaking forums to share such info with the entire community, and not only the german-speaking one, it seems like he "overstepped" and got into trouble internally. That's how it looked to me anyway. So it's up to us to keep an eye on german forums and share/translate (which we did on that occasion too).

I think you’re right. English speaking comms is appalling - maybe Kai should take over.

JohnG

They go over repeatedly in these patch notes that they have taken measures to make sure guilds don't get duplicate gold back this time, great. Its rather concerning however that they don't mention a word about making sure the multibid system actually works as intended and we don't end up with the rest of the disaster from last week.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Well, they didn't take it all. We got an extra 10 million gold back and now we have just over 3 million left, looks like we made a profit of about 2 million gold, if this is pro-rata some of the bigger guilds may have made a few tens of millions still.

Nice for you but I'm sorry to hear that. They should have invested a couple a man/hours to ensure the figures were correct.
Also, if there are errors, they can be beneficial (like in your case) or detrimental... which is a disaster. So overall this looks like bad news to me :-(

GarnetFire17

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

Kayira

FYI

KaiSchober wrote:

Danke für das schnelle Posten und Übersetzen. Die deutschen Patchnotizen werden aufgrund des soweit vorgezogenen Zwischenpatchs noch etwas auf sich warten lassen.

Das wichtigste noch einmal auf Deutsch (und für den DEV Tracker):

Bei allen Gilden, die Extra-Gold wegen der Probleme mit dem Multi-Bidding am Sonntag erhalten haben, wurde dieses wieder entfernt. In Fällen, wo wir mehr Gold hätten entfernen müssen, als die Gildenbank enthält, wurde die Bank auf Null gesetzt. Bei allen Gilden, die deshalb kein Gold mehr in der Gildenbank haben, wurde außerdem das Gildenhändlergebot für die kommende Woche anuliert und das gebotene Gold eingezogen.

Wir untersuchen zudem eine kleine Anzahl an Gilden und einzelnen Spielern, die das Problem massiv ausgenutzt und große Menge des zu Unrecht erhaltenen Golds ausgegeben, verschoben und sonstwie gewaschen haben. Gegen diese Konten werden die entsprechenden Maßnahmen ergriffen.

Just a quick and dirty translation:
So according to KaiSchober the extra amount of gold has been removed. If the guild did not have enough money in the bank for it to be removed, the value was set to 0. All guilds which gold has been set to 0 for that reason have also been blocked for this weeks trader bidding, and if they have already used gold to bid it has been taken in by ZOS.

Further several guild and players are on investigation for exploitation of the extra gold for spending, moving or laundering it. These accounts will be punished accordingly.

JN_Slevin

Kayira wrote: »

FYI

KaiSchober wrote:

Danke für das schnelle Posten und Übersetzen. Die deutschen Patchnotizen werden aufgrund des soweit vorgezogenen Zwischenpatchs noch etwas auf sich warten lassen.

Das wichtigste noch einmal auf Deutsch (und für den DEV Tracker):

Bei allen Gilden, die Extra-Gold wegen der Probleme mit dem Multi-Bidding am Sonntag erhalten haben, wurde dieses wieder entfernt. In Fällen, wo wir mehr Gold hätten entfernen müssen, als die Gildenbank enthält, wurde die Bank auf Null gesetzt. Bei allen Gilden, die deshalb kein Gold mehr in der Gildenbank haben, wurde außerdem das Gildenhändlergebot für die kommende Woche anuliert und das gebotene Gold eingezogen.

Wir untersuchen zudem eine kleine Anzahl an Gilden und einzelnen Spielern, die das Problem massiv ausgenutzt und große Menge des zu Unrecht erhaltenen Golds ausgegeben, verschoben und sonstwie gewaschen haben. Gegen diese Konten werden die entsprechenden Maßnahmen ergriffen.

Just a quick and dirty translation:
So according to KaiSchober the extra amount of gold has been removed. If the guild did not have enough money in the bank for it to be removed, the value was set to 0. All guilds which gold has been set to 0 for that reason have also been blocked for this weeks trader bidding, and if they have already used gold to bid it has been taken in by ZOS.

Further several guild and players are on investigation for exploitation of the extra gold for spending, moving or laundering it. These accounts will be punished accordingly.

Thats just the Translation of the Patch Notes

anitajoneb17_ESO

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

- If you're a GM, especially a GM of a trade guild, you are, in my opinion, SUPPOSED to read the forums. Maybe not all of them, but the dev tracker at the very minimum. No excuse if you don't.
- Every single communication from Kai, in german, that's relevant for everyone, is always transferred nearly immediately by someone onto the english forum. With some sort of translation, home-made or Google-made.

Holmarion19

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I'm pretty sure th at those removing it, not even using it, but removing and moving it through accounts were at leat apealed by the idea that zos won't find the gold. This is how u exploit in a smart way. And if zos doesn't take action at this It als says: u can at least try your luck.

Not entirely true. We moved the gold for safekeeping before we saw Kai's German post. When we saw the post we sent in a ticket to Zos explaining exactly what we had done with the money. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that is, but please do not assume that everyone was attempting to exploit the situation.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Holmarion19 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I'm pretty sure th at those removing it, not even using it, but removing and moving it through accounts were at leat apealed by the idea that zos won't find the gold. This is how u exploit in a smart way. And if zos doesn't take action at this It als says: u can at least try your luck.

Not entirely true. We moved the gold for safekeeping before we saw Kai's German post. When we saw the post we sent in a ticket to Zos explaining exactly what we had done with the money. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that is, but please do not assume that everyone was attempting to exploit the situation.

You sent a ticket... ?
Wouldn't it have been quicker and more convenient to simply move the gold back into the guild bank ?
I don't want to intrude here, you may have your reasons, but I'm still curious...

Dont_do_drugs

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

Tbh this, is not even discussable. There's something calmed common sense. Common sense says: make a ticket and report tge additional gold to zos and don't move it. Nobody even necessarily needed to tell anyone sthg like that. Even jn the multi guilds discord there was a major agreement that its better to not touch the gold. It's been dirty gold. So u don't touch it till zos cleared it up. Why are people trying zo finfld excuses for their lack of common sense.

Kayira

Cani wrote: »

Thats just the Translation of the Patch Notes

Yeah I saw that afterwards. However there were still recent discussions what happened to the gold and in the dev tracker I only saw KaiSchobers reply and didnt see it on the top of the patch notes.

Holmarion19

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Holmarion19 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I'm pretty sure th at those removing it, not even using it, but removing and moving it through accounts were at leat apealed by the idea that zos won't find the gold. This is how u exploit in a smart way. And if zos doesn't take action at this It als says: u can at least try your luck.

Not entirely true. We moved the gold for safekeeping before we saw Kai's German post. When we saw the post we sent in a ticket to Zos explaining exactly what we had done with the money. It will be interesting to see what the outcome of that is, but please do not assume that everyone was attempting to exploit the situation.

You sent a ticket... ?
Wouldn't it have been quicker and more convenient to simply move the gold back into the guild bank ?
I don't want to intrude here, you may have your reasons, but I'm still curious...

TBh once we saw the post saying "do not move it" we decided not to move it again. On top of that, of course, monies does, occasionally, disappear when putting stuff in the bank so we decided to minimise the amount of transfers. Easy to be wise after the event unfortunately

KingMagaw

I laughed when i read this.

Last time ZOS tried to do this kind of action was blackboot AP exploit. One of my personal team spent the entire time here, gained around 8-10million AP, when people on forums started crying to bought Akavari motifs, listed on traders, ZOS temp suspended him for 3 days, he logged back to millions in sales.


I have 0 faith ZOS can track/address it this approach. Best was a rollback.

EDIT: Someone gains 1 billion gold. Spends 1 billion gold, gets temp suspended for x days, comes back to everything. No way ZOS would dedicate the resources necessary to address all, havent done so in the past.

GarnetFire17

I seriously hope they wouldn't punish the guild without first knowing it was the GM that took the gold and not just an officer or someone who got tempted and robbed the guild bank. The guild doesn't need their bid taken away because they were robbed. At this point I want to tell ZOS to "JUST STOP!" Every time they try to fix what they break just dig themselves into a bigger whole and its the community that takes the hit every time.

GarnetFire17

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

Tbh this, is not even discussable. There's something calmed common sense. Common sense says: make a ticket and report tge additional gold to zos and don't move it. Nobody even necessarily needed to tell anyone sthg like that. Even jn the multi guilds discord there was a major agreement that its better to not touch the gold. It's been dirty gold. So u don't touch it till zos cleared it up. Why are people trying zo finfld excuses for their lack of common sense.

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

JN_Slevin

I think they meant to say "if you bid on a Trader this week already, this gold will be taken away aswell"

Which does make sense, because its effective Gold in the Guild bank

Dont_do_drugs

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

Tbh this, is not even discussable. There's something calmed common sense. Common sense says: make a ticket and report tge additional gold to zos and don't move it. Nobody even necessarily needed to tell anyone sthg like that. Even jn the multi guilds discord there was a major agreement that its better to not touch the gold. It's been dirty gold. So u don't touch it till zos cleared it up. Why are people trying zo finfld excuses for their lack of common sense.

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

OH pls.... Teenagers... Cmon. There's a zos and yes zos can also make a difference between the actions, I doubt someone doing stuff with 5m will be punished same as someone misusing or even selling 250m as example. Pls start ur common sense now.

GarnetFire17

Cani wrote: »

I think they meant to say "if you bid on a Trader this week already, this gold will be taken away aswell"

Which does make sense, because its effective Gold in the Guild bank

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I think this is not a bad solution IF they had said that before hand and the GM`s who did NOTHING wrong and just took the gold out of the GB for safe keeping got the opportunity to replace it before hand.

They said they'd delete the gold, and they also asked to not touch it. Was kind of obvious that the wise thing to do was to put the gold into the guild bank...

A fair point well made but I have been following this closely and managed to miss that instruction ... I feel for the small guilds that do not frequent the forums and thought that they had passed go and collected their £200. I also feel for any large guilds that didn't spend the gold but didn't have it in their GB pre patch.

For the record, I left the gold where it was, but.......where exactly did anyone from ZoS say that GMa should not touch the gold?

here :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/6289795/#Comment_6289795




If you have an excess gold in your guild bank because of the bug, you don't need to do anything at first. Of course it's better if you don't touch the gold, in order to make it easier for us to track, and if needed,to delete the gold.

And if you don't read the forums or understand German?

Tbh this, is not even discussable. There's something calmed common sense. Common sense says: make a ticket and report tge additional gold to zos and don't move it. Nobody even necessarily needed to tell anyone sthg like that. Even jn the multi guilds discord there was a major agreement that its better to not touch the gold. It's been dirty gold. So u don't touch it till zos cleared it up. Why are people trying zo finfld excuses for their lack of common sense.

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

OH pls.... Teenagers... Cmon. There's a zos and yes zos can also make a difference between the actions, I doubt someone doing stuff with 5m will be punished same as someone misusing or even selling 250m as example. Pls start ur common sense now.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything ZOS does anymore. Common sense seems to be irrelevant when it comes to anything about this game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

Since when is common sense a matter of age ?
I'd rather say someone inexperienced with the game may not know better. But then again, you can't be inexperienced with the game AND guild master of a trading guild with significant amounts to bid.
No, really. Noone who's moved the gold around is "innocent"...

Holmarion19

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

Since when is common sense a matter of age ?
I'd rather say someone inexperienced with the game may not know better. But then again, you can't be inexperienced with the game AND guild master of a trading guild with significant amounts to bid.
No, really. Noone who's moved the gold around is "innocent"...

And letting Zos know exactly what you have done with the gold is the action of a guilty person?
For some of us suddenly having a large amount of gold in our banks which we were not expecting was very stressful. A number of us tried very hard to do the right thing under the circumstances which were not of our making. This may not have been what others regard as what they would have done or, with the benefit of hindsight, sensible but the key thing is that some of us did the very best we could at the time with a difficult situation.

(edited for duplication)

GarnetFire17

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

It's common sense to people who have been in the business world, sure. We have teenagers in the game who don't know better.

Since when is common sense a matter of age ?
I'd rather say someone inexperienced with the game may not know better. But then again, you can't be inexperienced with the game AND guild master of a trading guild with significant amounts to bid.
No, really. Noone who's moved the gold around is "innocent"...

It's not strictly a matter of age but common sense comes from experience and have knowledge of how things work in the world. Experience that is very rare for people who have only reached a certain age and a certain amount of exposure to the world of business and managing money. As far as why would an innocent person move the gold out of the guild bank? Easy, to move it to a personal bank or a Treasury guild's guild bank so someone else doesn't steal it, which is what GMs do sometimes because they need certain people to have access to the guild bank so the guild can function they way they want. Now you can say you should only allow people you really trust access, but those are famous last words, especially when there is billions in gold tempting people just sitting there for the taking. So there is one legit innocent better safe than sorry reason that someone would do that.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Last weekend, an issue occurred with guild trader multi-bidding on the PC-EU server that negatively affected game performance and resulted in some guilds receiving excess gold back from lost bids. We’re sensitive to the negative impact this could have on the PC-EU server economy. During today’s maintenance we did a few things to address the extra gold that some guilds on the PC-EU server received last Sunday as a result of a guild trader/multi-bidding issue.

First, we have removed all the extra gold from the guild banks of those who were affected by this issue. In cases where we needed to remove more gold than the guild had in their bank, we reduced the guild bank down to zero gold. Any guilds whose bank balance is zero as a result of this also had their guild trader bids canceled this week, and the gold from those bids removed. The result is we’ve been able to remove the majority of the excess gold from the PC-EU server.

Second, we are investigating a small number of guilds and individuals who severely abused the issue and spent, moved, or otherwise laundered a large sum of duped gold and will be taking appropriate action on those accounts.

During today’s maintenance, we also put in place some additional safeguards to help prevent the multi-bidding issue from occurring in the future and have turned the guild history API back on. We will monitor how these safeguards perform and take additional measures as needed. Thank you all for your patience.

todokete

Ban them