Waffennacht wrote: »Forget resistance as a form of mitigation
You want major protection first, then minor if no major
You want Maim, you really want a way to maim
Then you want healz,
You must mitigate via LoS and positions in BGs as well
BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Weird way to ask that question. A simple way to look at it is 30 percent mitigation from resistance vs 30 percent mitigation from major protection. There is no difference in terms of mitigation, however the former is much easier to counter. Therefore sources of protection are more valuable, the real reason why a set like pirate skeleton was highly favored. It also makes squishy builds not so squishy.
Side note: Keep in mind that resistance and protection buffs still interact with each other.
BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Weird way to ask that question. A simple way to look at it is 30 percent mitigation from resistance vs 30 percent mitigation from major protection. There is no difference in terms of mitigation, however the former is much easier to counter. Therefore sources of protection are more valuable, the real reason why a set like pirate skeleton was highly favored. It also makes squishy builds not so squishy.
Side note: Keep in mind that resistance and protection buffs still interact with each other.
Yes i do know resistance and buffs stack. im probably too tired to understand it. i just dont know what to make of this. Resistance is all about mitigation and Major Resolve and Ward are worth just as little (or much) as 5280 regular resistance (on fortified brass for example)
Forget resistance as a form of mitigation
You want major protection first, then minor if no major
BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Weird way to ask that question. A simple way to look at it is 30 percent mitigation from resistance vs 30 percent mitigation from major protection. There is no difference in terms of mitigation, however the former is much easier to counter. Therefore sources of protection are more valuable, the real reason why a set like pirate skeleton was highly favored. It also makes squishy builds not so squishy.
Side note: Keep in mind that resistance and protection buffs still interact with each other.
Yes i do know resistance and buffs stack. im probably too tired to understand it. i just dont know what to make of this. Resistance is all about mitigation and Major Resolve and Ward are worth just as little (or much) as 5280 regular resistance (on fortified brass for example)
Forget resistance as a form of mitigation
You want major protection first, then minor if no major
What you don't understand is that stacking mitigation sets is a horrible way of building for survivability. Survivability comes from the ability to mitigate damage, effectively healing incoming damage and having the mobility to prevent being dogpiled. It is much better to run a combination of defence, stats and sources of healing increase.i didnt ask for for everything. But if i build damage, i do dmg. If i build sustain i get recovery. Problem is when i build defence i get no mitigation and die in 2sec.
What you don't understand is that stacking mitigation sets is a horrible way of building for survivability. Survivability comes from the ability to mitigate damage, effectively healing incoming damage and having the mobility to prevent being dogpiled. It is much better to run a combination of defence, stats and sources of healing increase.i didnt ask for for everything. But if i build damage, i do dmg. If i build sustain i get recovery. Problem is when i build defence i get no mitigation and die in 2sec.
Your combination of sets is awful, as it provides very little stats to increase your healing. Your healing is crap compared to other builds because you invested too much into the mitigation part. Also the fact you chose medium shows you actually went for a balanced build, which explains the 23k resist (which as others have said isnt high, its regular).
So Major Ward and Major Resolve are flat 30% dmg damage reductions?
They give 5280 reistance but are not comparable to 5280 resistance from set pieces?
So Major Ward and Major Resolve are flat 30% dmg damage reductions?
They give 5280 reistance but are not comparable to 5280 resistance from set pieces?
No. They just add to your existing resistances and can still be countered by high enough penetration or debuffs that reduce your resistance. What you want are buffs and sets that give a flat non-resistance based reduction like major/minor protection, buffer of the swift, reactive, etc
Resistance is still good, but you need to stack a lot of it for it to really make a difference against decent players (35K+), and you would still need to pair it with either another non-resistance defensive set or high health regen to be really effective. It is still possible to do decent damage with these builds, but it take more management in terms of keeping debuffs/buffs up and keeping an eye on your resources (either heavy attack weaving or using skills that return resources)
Choices, choices, choices. You can't have good survivability to 'tank' 2+ good players (the word 'good' is key here) in BG and still have enough burst to quickly kill people. You will suffer either in the sustain department or in the damage department or be lackluster at both.So Major Ward and Major Resolve are flat 30% dmg damage reductions?
They give 5280 reistance but are not comparable to 5280 resistance from set pieces?
No. They just add to your existing resistances and can still be countered by high enough penetration or debuffs that reduce your resistance. What you want are buffs and sets that give a flat non-resistance based reduction like major/minor protection, buffer of the swift, reactive, etc
Resistance is still good, but you need to stack a lot of it for it to really make a difference against decent players (35K+), and you would still need to pair it with either another non-resistance defensive set or high health regen to be really effective. It is still possible to do decent damage with these builds, but it take more management in terms of keeping debuffs/buffs up and keeping an eye on your resources (either heavy attack weaving or using skills that return resources)
okay thanks and how i always thought it was working. Someone just made it sound like Major buffs were "more effective" than regular resistance from armor pieces. Anyway, yes im stacking like crazy when im trying to be able to stay in the fight.
You can say the sets are awefull but its the only way i can take 3-4 dots and punches, surving a stun etc.
I dont have fun running around a stone to wait for heals to save my butt. I always thought it stupid and now that dot is meta, LOS isent a huge help
If i wanna play my stamsorc and not die in 2-3 sec as a melee inside the middle of shitt in a BG, i am running 5x Heavy Pariah, 2x BS all impen and for damage i use Briarheart with dmg enchants on both bars and jewlery. HP on most pieces.
When BS procs and Pariah procs im well over 33k resist with hurricane and that is what it takes to tank two ppl farely well with some CC and healing on top. But again you are right - my stam recovery and weapon dmg is low and killing takes longer and i use more heavy attacks and dark deal to recover stam than im used to. If i switch my Pariah with medium fortified or even better with spriggan's set i hit harder but oh boy im no longer charging in with a 2h. i stay ranged with my bow.
My magdk is another world. it dosent matter wtf i wear or click on. He just continue forward in light armor with around 23k resist (non cp)
My magblade is also strong now. i have so much dmg on my dot tooltips on everything. i use Julianos and BTB and BS
Anyone know if they changed the way damage calculations work?
There was a mention of magicka % reductions being purely multiplicative in this patch, maybe they changed damage reductions to act the same way.
As a magblade I stack % damage reductions like crazy: 10% merciless, 8% minor protection and 10% buffer of the swift. With how I understood damage reductions pre-patch that would be equivalent to:
50% damage reduction from battlespirit
10+8+10% flat damage reductions or 28% reduced from the amount past battlespirit
Sum of my resistances in % reduces for what gets by that.
That would mean 64% reduction plus resistances
Since I’m still getting hit by 5k hits if they changed every damage reduction to be multiplicative it would explain the damage I’m seeing. Instead of a 28% reduction it would be more like 25%.
Then with increased off balance leading to minor vulnerability 5k hits compared to others seeing 6k hits makes sense.
Anyone know if they changed the way damage calculations work?
There was a mention of magicka % reductions being purely multiplicative in this patch, maybe they changed damage reductions to act the same way.
As a magblade I stack % damage reductions like crazy: 10% merciless, 8% minor protection and 10% buffer of the swift. With how I understood damage reductions pre-patch that would be equivalent to:
50% damage reduction from battlespirit
10+8+10% flat damage reductions or 28% reduced from the amount past battlespirit
Sum of my resistances in % reduces for what gets by that.
That would mean 64% reduction plus resistances
Since I’m still getting hit by 5k hits if they changed every damage reduction to be multiplicative it would explain the damage I’m seeing. Instead of a 28% reduction it would be more like 25%.
Then with increased off balance leading to minor vulnerability 5k hits compared to others seeing 6k hits makes sense.
Rough rule of thumb I use for raw damage reduction is subtract 1% for each source; so 10, 10, and 8% reductions would be closer to 25% than 28%. I think it multiplies out to 25.48%. Reductions in ESO, damage, cost, etc., generally have diminishing returns because result of the first reduction is multiplied by the second, that result by the third, and so on. You can never get to 100% mitigation.
Percent increases get increasing results for the same reason. The product of the first multiplication gets fed to the second, etc.
But being ESO, they screw their maths up quite often, lol.
i didnt theorycraft this at all. im using stonekeeper monsterset for example. it isnt as u say appearantly. i think im around 27 k resistances buffed on that build. thats not high at all.
after reading what u wrote i randomly joined a match with my pve gear and selected a few skills that seemed usefull.
i know tanks in pvp who are tanking 4 ppl while using mystic guard on the healer and support healing the team using resto ult all the time as sorc. its quite annoying.compared to those guys on my friendlist im ***. nonetheless i dont understand how u can complain when u can tank 3 ppl without skill, effort and theorycraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV8-0xvd7Bc&feature=youtu.be
Lmao those is one of the worst collection of potato's I've ever seen in BG's 😂i didnt theorycraft this at all. im using stonekeeper monsterset for example. it isnt as u say appearantly. i think im around 27 k resistances buffed on that build. thats not high at all.
after reading what u wrote i randomly joined a match with my pve gear and selected a few skills that seemed usefull.
i know tanks in pvp who are tanking 4 ppl while using mystic guard on the healer and support healing the team using resto ult all the time as sorc. its quite annoying.compared to those guys on my friendlist im ***. nonetheless i dont understand how u can complain when u can tank 3 ppl without skill, effort and theorycraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV8-0xvd7Bc&feature=youtu.be
Builds that rely on blocking I’ve seen work, but I find them easy to counter as a NB. Fear’s great for blockers.
Is console still waiting on Scalebreaker? If so...you can expect Magicka Necromancer to have far better offense than before, via the "generic" DOTs + Skeletal Mage no longer being total garbage, but you're also going to be incredibly squishy. Honestly though, that's everyone nowadays: mitigation basically stopped existing with this patch, at least in no-CP.Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Forget resistance as a form of mitigation
You want major protection first, then minor if no major
You want Maim, you really want a way to maim
Then you want healz,
You must mitigate via LoS and positions in BGs as well
That combo is 40% mitigation or equal to 26.4K armor. There ya go, for a light/medium armor player it puts you at around 35K effective.
What gives pause is if this is so good, why isn't magicka Necromancer the most overwhelmingly OP class there is?
They are extremely difficult to kill if they build for it. But you have a hell of a time dealing damage (I haven't experienced scalebreaker yet so that may change)
With scale changes I may be inclined to try again
Waffennacht wrote: »
Lmao those is one of the worst collection of potato's I've ever seen in BG's 😂i didnt theorycraft this at all. im using stonekeeper monsterset for example. it isnt as u say appearantly. i think im around 27 k resistances buffed on that build. thats not high at all.
after reading what u wrote i randomly joined a match with my pve gear and selected a few skills that seemed usefull.
i know tanks in pvp who are tanking 4 ppl while using mystic guard on the healer and support healing the team using resto ult all the time as sorc. its quite annoying.compared to those guys on my friendlist im ***. nonetheless i dont understand how u can complain when u can tank 3 ppl without skill, effort and theorycraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV8-0xvd7Bc&feature=youtu.be
Considering their low skill and damage, you actually had more trouble keeping your hp up than you should.
yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic
So it was balanced when your build worked, now it doesn't it is unbalanced? Hmmm...
I keep hearing stam is weak this patch, yet I have a far easier time on stam than any mag spec. Wow, must just be me...
FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic
So it was balanced when your build worked, now it doesn't it is unbalanced? Hmmm...
I keep hearing stam is weak this patch, yet I have a far easier time on stam than any mag spec. Wow, must just be me...
Nope, it's the same for me. My Stamblade get kills and survives much easier them my MagBlade. My StamNecro completely outperforms my MagNecro without any difficulty. My StamPlar outperforms my MagPlar.
Also I don't know if it's just me. But my Stam burst builds this patch. Seem to be way more efficient killing players and holding objectives. Than any of my Magicka DOT builds. I have nearly every set in the game. Yet I still can't get my Magicka based characters to perform on the level of my stamina characters. My Stamina ranged Bow/Bow builds even outperform my magicka characters at ranged combat.
And I just recently converted over to stamina from magicka 1 month ago. I have been playing this game since the 2014 release! Am I the only one noticing this?
Waffennacht wrote: »
well if ppl wanna have minutes long fights they can go cp pvp. we still have super high survivability in high mmr with teams running warden and templars. but if 2 dps meet each other what do u expect. if defense gets stronger those block tank builds would be way to strong.
as i said some of my friendlist tank 3+ ppl in high mmr. they use for example SnB block build on sorc spamming resto ult. that build is insanely strong
Got tired of speed-deaths in BG's so i tuned defence up and up and UP to no avail.
My last BG i was wearing impreg (weapon/jewlery) + Fortified brass (medium) giving me 23k HP, 2300 resist (18k unbuffed) and 3400 crit resist on BOTH bars, but felt naked still.
i dont belive in defence. i dont belive the numbers are working