Has defence left the game?

festher

Got tired of speed-deaths in BG's so i tuned defence up and up and UP to no avail.

My last BG i was wearing impreg (weapon/jewlery) + Fortified brass (medium) giving me 23k HP, 2300 resist (18k unbuffed) and 3400 crit resist on BOTH bars, but felt naked still.

i dont belive in defence. i dont belive the numbers are working

ScruffyWhiskers

No but I think I spotted Elvis leaving the building with this patch.

I'll be here til Thursday. Try the veal.

festher

crystal fragment 6,5k
endless fury 5k
haunting curse 5k

hahah wtf why even try that road

TBois

The protection buffs are more mitigation than stacking resistances. Also passive heals are better for the dot meta. Maybe try pariah/alessian/troll king

Iskiab

festher wrote: »

Got tired of speed-deaths in BG's so i tuned defence up and up and UP to no avail.

My last BG i was wearing impreg (weapon/jewlery) + Fortified brass (medium) giving me 23k HP, 2300 resist (18k unbuffed) and 3400 crit resist on BOTH bars, but felt naked still.

i dont belive in defence. i dont belive the numbers are working

23k resists aren’t a lot, but I honestly think they made a mistake somewhere in the patch for mitigation. I’m seeing 5k+ hits from those same abilities at 30k resists.

Just yolo glass canon it up until it’s fixed or some math genius figures out what’s going on.

No_Division

Iskiab wrote: »

festher wrote: »

Got tired of speed-deaths in BG's so i tuned defence up and up and UP to no avail.

My last BG i was wearing impreg (weapon/jewlery) + Fortified brass (medium) giving me 23k HP, 2300 resist (18k unbuffed) and 3400 crit resist on BOTH bars, but felt naked still.

i dont belive in defence. i dont belive the numbers are working

23k resists aren’t a lot, but I honestly think they made a mistake somewhere in the patch for mitigation. I’m seeing 5k+ hits from those same abilities at 30k resists.

Just yolo glass canon it up until it’s fixed or some math genius figures out what’s going on.

multiplication is one hell of a drug.

Vermethys

Passive healing, which Stamina builds mostly lost this patch, is what's making you feel squishy. We lost about 600-800HP healing every two seconds from the Momentum nerf. Try adding more Health Recovery and use Lingering Health potions.

festher

i can say for sure that in BGs its a casters paradis. they spam their dd like never before with ease. ive never seen a game jump in balance as eso. stabil things already ffs!

festher

and dark deal works 20% of the time. is that a new proc chance on abilities too?

MaxJrFTW

Building defensive doesn't work in no cp because you do 0 dmg and will still get blown up by people building offensive. I suggest you do the same thing they do, at least you'll be able to kill people fast.

festher

yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic

Iskiab

festher wrote: »

yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic

I still see lots of stamwardens and stamtemplars who do well. I wouldn’t say that it’s mag who benefited most. If anything in an odd way the patch helped stam more, the defensive nerfs hit mag harder then stam. Mag can use all the ranged dots, but so can stam so that should be a wash.

No_Division

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Building defensive doesn't work in no cp because you do 0 dmg and will still get blown up by people building offensive. I suggest you do the same thing they do, at least you'll be able to kill people fast.

yea i'd say get your defense on skills/jewels/mundas/2pc but save your 5pc for sustain/dmg.

NuarBlack

Eh I don't think it was this patch that actually had the changes in regards to resistance other than the protective nerf. As even last patch you could stack almost that much penetration as a LA build. I've been running a glass cannon magden build for quite a while now with a lot of success cause spinners + sharpened + LA passive + lover mundus + major breach directly countered the resistance stacking meta in no cp at least. I'd blow up just about anyone not using pirate skele or some other form of major protection.

I think this patch just made doing so more obvious and appealing is all to where people finally caught on.

BaiterOfZergs

Less people running major protection and protective getting nerfed. Resistance is kinda irrelevant if someone is running high pen, major and minor protection is more valuable since only one class counter it and with an ult.

Both are even more valuable this patch with the increase in damage.

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

festher wrote: »

yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic

I still see lots of stamwardens and stamtemplars who do well. I wouldn’t say that it’s mag who benefited most. If anything in an odd way the patch helped stam more, the defensive nerfs hit mag harder then stam. Mag can use all the ranged dots, but so can stam so that should be a wash.

I've seen more Stamina Templars in BGs since Monday than I have in a *long* time, and they're usually getting more damage in a single 1.1 second Jabs channel than most of the DOTs are doing over half (or more) of their duration. And given the state of burst damage in BGs right now, I'd say Stamina is typically still superior to Magicka. With damage being so high at the moment, mobility and dodge roll are king (and having your HOT *always* affect yourself is a bigger deal than many people want to admit); shields are an absolute joke in comparison.

ccmedaddy

Wait, are y'all saying ZOS successfully killed the tank meta in one fell swoop and now people die like they're supposed to? Now I'm kinda excited about trying the new patch on console.

Crixus8000

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait, are y'all saying ZOS successfully killed the tank meta in one fell swoop and now people die like they're supposed to? Now I'm kinda excited about trying the new patch on console.

I'm sure many bad players are happy that they can get kills now without needing to even try and get better, but it's not healthy pvp.

Tank meta should not be a thing but neither should spamming multiple 1-2k damage dots.

Damage should require skill, as should countering that damage. Dots take 0 skill at all to cast, and they also have no counterplay other than purge/cloak. That is terrible game design.

I know zos usually makes changes to lower the skill in pvp and make it overall more zerg friendly but it's getting a bit much imo.

Kadoin

festher wrote: »

yea its all class canons now and mostly mag. Before this *** patch it was more balanced mag and stam players in BGs. Not anymore lol. Thats the funny thing about patches. we dont just change all the armor to compete we have to change character, meh. The changes are too drastic

So it was balanced when your build worked, now it doesn't it is unbalanced? Hmmm...

I keep hearing stam is weak this patch, yet I have a far easier time on stam than any mag spec. Wow, must just be me...

No_Division

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait, are y'all saying ZOS successfully killed the tank meta in one fell swoop and now people die like they're supposed to? Now I'm kinda excited about trying the new patch on console.

No it will get worse once players realize the tank meta was really just high stats with block lol.

JusticeSouldier

too big damage in game now - it's very nice visible at pve parses.
with medium as a weakest armor type for pvp now (bleeds doesn't ignore resists anymore so heavy mitigation is hurt only by onslaught (and corrosive at stamdk) with a direct damage only).
new templar's Eclipse is a hell toxic thing, sorc's unblockable streak and not interraptable heavy Overload also...
and 2 more strong dots for every mag class (or 1 for stamina) made a new disbalance...
Paradise for heavy armored dot based everyone.
bad patch.

festher

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

too big damage in game now - it's very nice visible at pve parses.
with medium as a weakest armor type for pvp now (bleeds doesn't ignore resists anymore so heavy mitigation is hurt only by onslaught (and corrosive at stamdk) with a direct damage only).
new templar's Eclipse is a hell toxic thing, sorc's unblockable streak and not interraptable heavy Overload also...
and 2 more strong dots for every mag class (or 1 for stamina) made a new disbalance...
Paradise for heavy armored dot based everyone.
bad patch.

and maybe with every buddys help we can look forward to the next patch with minor tweaks here and there and not a patch where stam cuts thorugh all mag players and medium armor is god mode.... sigh

TheBonesXXX

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Wait, are y'all saying ZOS successfully killed the tank meta in one fell swoop and now people die like they're supposed to? Now I'm kinda excited about trying the new patch on console.

Its a salt mine on these forums.

Firstmep

Vermethys wrote: »

Passive healing, which Stamina builds mostly lost this patch, is what's making you feel squishy. We lost about 600-800HP healing every two seconds from the Momentum nerf. Try adding more Health Recovery and use Lingering Health potions.

Vigor was buffed by at least that much per tick. Remeber resolving ticks every second.
I dont know whtas going on with ppl, my stamplar feels every bit as tanky as last patch, so is my stamsorc. Also fortified and impreg combo is a great way to have *** for healing. I run 2wpd sets and and i feel fine in medium. Then again ive been running the expensive stam and lingering pots since elsewyr came out.

TheBonesXXX

Killing someone before they kill you is defense.

festher

i just played my magdk in BG and made 14-0. then i tried my stamsorc with better gear and left after 4min being humiliated 0-5. i dont need more advices. Something has gone to hell and tho i mostly wanna play my stamsorc im nopt gonna be as fustrated as i was with my magblade before the patch. ive had enough

InvictusApollo

festher wrote: »

Got tired of speed-deaths in BG's so i tuned defence up and up and UP to no avail.

My last BG i was wearing impreg (weapon/jewlery) + Fortified brass (medium) giving me 23k HP, 2300 resist (18k unbuffed) and 3400 crit resist on BOTH bars, but felt naked still.

i dont belive in defence. i dont belive the numbers are working

You just don't know how to theorycraft for defence
23k resistances is quite low.
Also what do you expect? That your armor will heal you of all incoming damage? It merely decreases it's number by a given percent.

festher

trying to attach an image but that dosent work either.

Anyway. In BG 23k spell and psy reisist is not low. 4k crist resist is not low. You have to put on some serious deff armor to get that. in my case full fortified brass which is ONLY deff and inpreg with is 2k crit resist + inpen on everything. so dont say its not much. otherwise tell me how you reach 30k and still have dmg and sustain?

Rikumaru

festher wrote: »

trying to attach an image but that dosent work either.

Anyway. In BG 23k spell and psy reisist is not low. 4k crist resist is not low. You have to put on some serious deff armor to get that. in my case full fortified brass which is ONLY deff and inpreg with is 2k crit resist + inpen on everything. so dont say its not much. otherwise tell me how you reach 30k and still have dmg and sustain?

You aren't supposed to be super tanky, deal high damage and have high healing. Thats why stuff like protective and pirate got nerfed. Though there are still a few ways you can have all three.

festher

i didnt ask for for everything. But if i build damage, i do dmg. If i build sustain i get recovery. Problem is when i build defence i get no mitigation and die in 2sec.

Iskiab

festher wrote: »

trying to attach an image but that dosent work either.

Anyway. In BG 23k spell and psy reisist is not low. 4k crist resist is not low. You have to put on some serious deff armor to get that. in my case full fortified brass which is ONLY deff and inpreg with is 2k crit resist + inpen on everything. so dont say its not much. otherwise tell me how you reach 30k and still have dmg and sustain?

It is low. With reaper’s mark I get up at 18k pen as a magblade.