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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
I think it's time for class change tokens ...
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sentientomega wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »I think ZoS said they’d never do it though
They did, but as someone else has pointed out, this wouldn't be the first time they've changed their mind about implementing something if they do change it on this, as they're entitled to.
I could be wrong, but I think skill lines were one of those things.
You have to be careful. ZOS has certain phrasing that they use. Having "no plans" means the door is still open, as the word "plan" does have a development meaning that still allows for a "maybe". When there is "no interest" or "it is not something we want to do", that is more final. To my knowledge, this has only been used a couple of times, and has not yet been reversed.
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sentientomega✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »sentientomega wrote: »Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »I think ZoS said they’d never do it though
They did, but as someone else has pointed out, this wouldn't be the first time they've changed their mind about implementing something if they do change it on this, as they're entitled to.
I could be wrong, but I think skill lines were one of those things.
You have to be careful. ZOS has certain phrasing that they use. Having "no plans" means the door is still open, as the word "plan" does have a development meaning that still allows for a "maybe". When there is "no interest" or "it is not something we want to do", that is more final. To my knowledge, this has only been used a couple of times, and has not yet been reversed.
Well, as an example, once upon a time, I had "no interest" in playing GTA V. Now, I've done the SP story, and have two characters in Online that I play. But then I didn't say "right now", and neither have they. But que sera sera...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The amount of programming need to do a class change and have it work properly would be a mountain in itself more than likely it would glitch out and you would have a sorc using dragon leap or a dk summoning a twilight. The examples are likely outcome of class changing. However the more likely and better alternative is for a spellcrafting system.
I'm not sure why you say that because the class systems are already programmed. It should be simple to do. All the hard work is already done.
With race change it’s simply a matter of a handful of passives but to do a class change requires 3 skill lines to be converted and ideally people will want the skill lines at same level as their toons had prior to changing class. There are even further complications on top of the basic issues presented
That would be simple to do, even if you wanted to carry over the same skill ranks. Simply save the current levels of each skill rank into temporary variables (though I'm sure they are already saved on permanent ones anyway) and then apply them to the corresponding skills once you swap them. So that wouldn't be difficult to do either, even if you wanted to do that. So the situation you presented would not be a complicated one to address and I've seen no "basic issues" presented in this thread that would make programming a process to change classes difficult. This would be a very basic code.
Trust me, it's not programming difficulties that's keeping them from doing this.
You fail to see the coding issue would be if their is even the slightest coding error you would say have a sorc with dragon leap or a nightblade with the bear ultimate for some simple examples
That would not be a slight coding error. If their programmers were truly that terrible then this game wouldn't even work because that would be an extremely easy bug to spot and an even easier one to fix.
You seem to believe that every time someone uses a race change or name change token (or class change token) the programmers have to write a new code or something on the spot. That's not how it works. The class change code is programmed and tested before it is actually put in the game - and would be a relatively easy one to write and test. So the only way such an obvious bug would make it into the game is if the programmers didn't bother to test it before hand.Edited by Jeremy on September 12, 2019 2:33PM0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You fail to see the coding issue would be if their is even the slightest coding error you would say have a sorc with dragon leap or a nightblade with the bear ultimate for some simple examples
We already know that class abilities are not stored that way, they are simply indices into the parent class structure.
That means that switching the class on an existing character can not result in any mixup of class skills ...
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Commancho✭✭✭✭✭I don't know any max cp player who doesn't have at least few classes ranked up and majority have all so I don't understand what balancing problems you are taking about because noobs won't buy these tokens and even if they would it won't make big difference for them as they aren't able to use any class to its full potential.0
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Kuramas9tails✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmmm......
So if I got my flawless title on my Mageblade and switch to a MagSorc, I would keep the title regardless if I completed it on a Mageblade or not?Your friendly neighborhood crazy cat lady of ESO
New PSN name: SundariTheLast. Proud seller in RedEye Empire, PURPLE GANG and Backalley Trading.
AD High Elf Mageblade DPS (General)(Former Empress) -- Stormproof/VMOL, VHOF, VDSA completion
AD Khajiit Mageblade DPS -- Flawless Conquerer
FOR THE QUEEN!
PS4/NA0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭You fail to see the coding issue would be if their is even the slightest coding error you would say have a sorc with dragon leap or a nightblade with the bear ultimate for some simple examples
We already know that class abilities are not stored that way, they are simply indices into the parent class structure.
That means that switching the class on an existing character can not result in any mixup of class skills ...
Again it is not as easy and clear cut as you think the coding for class change will likely place unforeseen bugs into the system. With coding there are always unforeseen bugs.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You fail to see the coding issue would be if their is even the slightest coding error you would say have a sorc with dragon leap or a nightblade with the bear ultimate for some simple examples
We already know that class abilities are not stored that way, they are simply indices into the parent class structure.
That means that switching the class on an existing character can not result in any mixup of class skills ...
Again it is not as easy and clear cut as you think the coding for class change will likely place unforeseen bugs into the system. With coding there are always unforeseen bugs.
Usually the program is structured to where classes are basically just applied or removed through the database. I would be very surprised if any complex coding was even needed to simply swap classes. It would likely be as easy as telling the program to remove existing class and replace it with the new class. I suspect that's what Sir Andy is referring to.
You're right that with coding there are always unforeseen bugs. But the risks for that are very minimal in this circumstance, and shouldn't be difficult to correct even if they occurred. This game only has what, 6 classes in total? Testing those to make sure they interact properly with a race change token shouldn't be hard - especially considering a character's class is an independent system like I said earlier so there aren't many additional factors to deal with.
Edited by Jeremy on September 12, 2019 6:24PM1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Usually the program is structured to where classes are basically just applied or removed through the database. I would be very surprised if any complex coding was even needed to simply swap classes. It would likely be as easy as telling the program to remove existing class and replace it with the new class. I suspect that's what Sir Andy is referring to.
Disclaimer: I do this stuff for a living and have for a very long time
Like i said above, we already know (due to previous bugs that exposed the underlying structure) that your class skill progression is saved in the database as a simple index for both the skill lines as well as the skills in each skill line.
Pseudo code example (ignoring morphs for simplicity):skill_line = 1; skill = 3; skill_level[skill_line][skill] = 3.14159265;
In the example above:skill_line = 1 = "Daedric Summoning" for a Sorc, "Shadow" for a Nightblade and "Draconic Power" for a Dragonknight skill = 3 = "Summon Winged Twilight" for a Sorc, "Path of Darkness" for a Nightblade and "Dragon Blood" for a Dragonknight skill_level[1][3] = some level value = The current level for that skill
Edited by SirAndy on September 12, 2019 8:00PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Usually the program is structured to where classes are basically just applied or removed through the database. I would be very surprised if any complex coding was even needed to simply swap classes. It would likely be as easy as telling the program to remove existing class and replace it with the new class. I suspect that's what Sir Andy is referring to.
Disclaimer: I do this stuff for a living and have for a very long time
Like i said above, we already know (due to previous bugs that exposed the underlying structure) that your class skill progression is saved in the database as a simple index for both the skill lines as well as the skills in each skill line.
Simplified pseudo code example (ignoring morphs for simplicity):skill_line = 1; skill = 3; skill_level[skill_line][skill] = 3.14159265;
In the example above:skill_line = 1 = "Daedric Summoning" for a Sorc, "Shadow" for a Nightblade and "Draconic Power" for a Dragonknight skill = 3 = "Summon Winged Twilight" for a Sorc, "Path of Darkness" for a Nightblade and "Dragon Blood" for a Dragonknight skill_level[1][3] = some level value = The current level for that skill
Yeah I had already guessed that. I could tell from the way you were posting you had experience at programming. ^^1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only way you’re getting a class change token is if it costs more than all maxed skill lines, and full skill point unlocks combined
ZOS would never miss a chance to milk idiots0 -
sentientomega✭✭✭The only way you’re getting a class change token is if it costs more than all maxed skill lines, and full skill point unlocks combined
ZOS would never miss a chance to milk idiots
Even then, I'd still work towards buying them if it also meant keeping the characters in question intact.1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Usually the program is structured to where classes are basically just applied or removed through the database. I would be very surprised if any complex coding was even needed to simply swap classes. It would likely be as easy as telling the program to remove existing class and replace it with the new class. I suspect that's what Sir Andy is referring to.
Disclaimer: I do this stuff for a living and have for a very long time
Like i said above, we already know (due to previous bugs that exposed the underlying structure) that your class skill progression is saved in the database as a simple index for both the skill lines as well as the skills in each skill line.
Pseudo code example (ignoring morphs for simplicity):skill_line = 1; skill = 3; skill_level[skill_line][skill] = 3.14159265;
In the example above:skill_line = 1 = "Daedric Summoning" for a Sorc, "Shadow" for a Nightblade and "Draconic Power" for a Dragonknight skill = 3 = "Summon Winged Twilight" for a Sorc, "Path of Darkness" for a Nightblade and "Dragon Blood" for a Dragonknight skill_level[1][3] = some level value = The current level for that skill
This is an over simplification as there is the coding for animations as well. Again class change is not so clear cut and simple as you seem to think. This system for class change would be for all intents automated no direct input from the programmers relying on the programmed algorithm to change classes. This alone makes it less than reliable as people think many players would use this meaning thousands of players changing classes nearly simultaneously and this game has already shown what these kinds of calculations cause server crashes lag spikes, and poor performance.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You aren't are programmer, are you?This is an over simplification as there is the coding for animations as well.
Animations and their coding have no relevance to how character data is stored on the server.
This topic is about class change and how easy (or not) it would be to implement.
Animations have no roll in that at all, that's not how one stores character data server side ...
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭
You aren't are programmer, are you?This is an over simplification as there is the coding for animations as well.
Animations and their coding have no relevance to how character data is stored on the server.
This topic is about class change and how easy (or not) it would be to implement.
Animations have no roll in that at all, that's not how one stores character data server side ...
animations are tied to skill coding. You definetly don’t understand the basic conceptEdited by BattleAxe on September 13, 2019 5:15AM0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
animations are tied to skill coding. You definetly don’t understand the basic concept
You aren't are programmer, are you?This is an over simplification as there is the coding for animations as well.
Animations and their coding have no relevance to how character data is stored on the server.
This topic is about class change and how easy (or not) it would be to implement.
Animations have no roll in that at all, that's not how one stores character data server side ...
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, another armchair game programmer in the making ...
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BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭
animations are tied to skill coding. You definetly don’t understand the basic concept
You aren't are programmer, are you?This is an over simplification as there is the coding for animations as well.
Animations and their coding have no relevance to how character data is stored on the server.
This topic is about class change and how easy (or not) it would be to implement.
Animations have no roll in that at all, that's not how one stores character data server side ...
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, another armchair game programmer in the making ...
I guess the jig is up since u seem to know me personally. What game developer are you a programmer for or are you an armchair programmer? Lol.0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭I think coding is not an issue here. Personally I wouldn't mind to rank up class skill lines again after using token as it takes few dungs and bgs at lvl 50.1
