Next time you see popular streamers open a bunch of crown crates ...

Araneae6537

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Next time you see popular streamers open a bunch of crown crates ...

You may want to consider what you're actually doing with your life.

I know, right? I’ve read reviews on odds, value, etc., from sources I have some confidence in, but watch someone open loot boxes? Not sure what the point of that would be but to each their own.

Carbonised

therift wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

therift wrote: »

To be fair, this video rests on a statement made by a participant who runs some sort of 'streamer management' company. This person initially claimed loot box shilling was a common practice, but when asked for clarification, this person backed waaaay off and said he only heard it mentioned once in a room he was in.

Could loot boxes be fixed for promotional purposes? Sure. Could it have happened? Sure. But the person at the panel who made the statement gives varying statements and is clearly unreliable. Yet here we have an 18 minute video covering another video that covered a public panel in which a questionable statement was made once.

Incidentally, there are regulations requiring streamers to disclosure gratuities received from the publishers whose products they review. This doesn't seem to be something the streamer community is aware of. I wonder if the 'streamer management company' guy realized he was putting himself at risk for investigation, and that's why later on he recanted nearly all of his original claim.

It's not "some guy running some sort of streamer company". Considering that they have Angry Joe on board, pretty much one of the largest gamer review channels on YT, you can rest assured that they're someone in the business, not just anyone.

You're correct that there are laws in place to make sure that 'influencers' disclose any form of promoted of sponsored content, to make sure their audience is aware that they are basically watching a commercial or an advertisement. You should also mention, however, that these laws are continually being broken by a large portion of the 'influencers', who deliberately mislead their audience, and who get away with it for the most part.

Also you're confusing the message, apparently. He said that bribing/paying/hiring 'influencers' to do subverted and hidden commercials to their audience is commonplace. Of course it is, it happens all the time outside the gaming business as well. he then added that deliberately tweaking the odds for the streamer he heard of once himself, though with the exposed lack of any moral standards at all in the gaming industry these days, you can rest assured that it has happened elsewhere too.

3) Endorser disclosure requirements are not 'laws that are broken'. They are guidelines drawn from FTC commentary and opinion. The FTC itself states violation of the Endorser Guidelines will not result in civil action. It may, however, result in investigation and enforcement under the UT&DP Act.

The world is, however, larger than the US of A, and over here in Europe and in the EU, it is certainly illegal and breaking of marketing laws not to disclose completely any sponsored or paid items that appear in a review or stream or showcase by any influencer or streamer. That goes for any business, whether gaming related or otherwise. Case in point, today the consumer ombudsmand of Denmark just turned in several popular online influencers to the police for breaking marketing laws, by not informing and disclosing fully that their posts, videos or showcases were in fact sponsored and paid for.

therift

Carbonised wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sorry but the stream team folks aren't getting any rigged box loots. This is definitely a bad practice in the gaming industry though by some companies.

Do they get hundreds of non-rigged loot boxes to open while streaming, however, is the interesting question here. And if they do, do the follow the required regulations to disclose the sponsored items they received?

Good question, and something Zenimax's legal dept should provide along with any products supplied for demonstration purposes or to be given away for watching a streamer broadcast.

Of the handful of ESO's official 'streamers' I have viewed, all were properly disclosed. It was clear to me at the beginning of the video that the streamer had received some goodies to promote the game. That's all the FTC requires.

FENGRUSH

Carbonised wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sorry but the stream team folks aren't getting any rigged box loots. This is definitely a bad practice in the gaming industry though by some companies.

Do they get hundreds of non-rigged loot boxes to open while streaming, however, is the interesting question here. And if they do, do the follow the required regulations to disclose the sponsored items they received?

Negative. Stream team members aren't given free loot boxes to open.

Whether they have with actual sponsored folks that are paid sponsors is beyond my knowledge. I've seen sponsored streams on eso and never watched them open much of anything though.

Itd be great to see more effective regulation here but I think it will be a while. Some businesses have got away with straight scamming and deceiving their audiences. Some streamers caught up in that came away clean in them too. Regulation is a blank there and punishment is nonexistent. Which doesnt really make sense considering the money in it.

All in all, these talks from the OP have focused on some bigger games.. think CS, OW, fifa etc.

Nordic__Knights

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Honestly haven't watched a streamer open any since...2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLxTxh6l8eI

Thing is that you can look the same guy up and he does it more he continues to buy them not just this one season but plenty of Seasons throughout the years I've seen him do it it's funny and he always gets nothing
I mean to be honest I have a mount for every Apex they have out and that's using my crown crate money for ESO Plus

Kadoin

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Lootboxes? You mean surprise mechanics?!

The only surprise mechanics in this game that matters are lag, and an apparently new collision bug where you can never hit anything again until you die. Oh and getting killed over and over when you are in vMA until your soul gems deplete to zero until you DC, despite you never hitting the revive button.

Yes, those are great surprise mechanics. Masterful, if I do say so myself!

therift

Carbonised wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

therift wrote: »

To be fair, this video rests on a statement made by a participant who runs some sort of 'streamer management' company. This person initially claimed loot box shilling was a common practice, but when asked for clarification, this person backed waaaay off and said he only heard it mentioned once in a room he was in.

Could loot boxes be fixed for promotional purposes? Sure. Could it have happened? Sure. But the person at the panel who made the statement gives varying statements and is clearly unreliable. Yet here we have an 18 minute video covering another video that covered a public panel in which a questionable statement was made once.

Incidentally, there are regulations requiring streamers to disclosure gratuities received from the publishers whose products they review. This doesn't seem to be something the streamer community is aware of. I wonder if the 'streamer management company' guy realized he was putting himself at risk for investigation, and that's why later on he recanted nearly all of his original claim.

It's not "some guy running some sort of streamer company". Considering that they have Angry Joe on board, pretty much one of the largest gamer review channels on YT, you can rest assured that they're someone in the business, not just anyone.

You're correct that there are laws in place to make sure that 'influencers' disclose any form of promoted of sponsored content, to make sure their audience is aware that they are basically watching a commercial or an advertisement. You should also mention, however, that these laws are continually being broken by a large portion of the 'influencers', who deliberately mislead their audience, and who get away with it for the most part.

Also you're confusing the message, apparently. He said that bribing/paying/hiring 'influencers' to do subverted and hidden commercials to their audience is commonplace. Of course it is, it happens all the time outside the gaming business as well. he then added that deliberately tweaking the odds for the streamer he heard of once himself, though with the exposed lack of any moral standards at all in the gaming industry these days, you can rest assured that it has happened elsewhere too.

3) Endorser disclosure requirements are not 'laws that are broken'. They are guidelines drawn from FTC commentary and opinion. The FTC itself states violation of the Endorser Guidelines will not result in civil action. It may, however, result in investigation and enforcement under the UT&DP Act.

The world is, however, larger than the US of A, and over here in Europe and in the EU, it is certainly illegal and breaking of marketing laws not to disclose completely any sponsored or paid items that appear in a review or stream or showcase by any influencer or streamer. That goes for any business, whether gaming related or otherwise. Case in point, today the consumer ombudsmand of Denmark just turned in several popular online influencers to the police for breaking marketing laws, by not informing and disclosing fully that their posts, videos or showcases were in fact sponsored and paid for.

I think I mentioned the E.U. requires special attention for American marketers. If that wasn't clear, I'll amplify by saying any streamer seeking support from a publisher had best become expert on E.U. regulations. FTC rules are essentially guidelines that prevent running afoul of the FTC Act and related ACTs. Not so with the European Union.

For an American marketer, it would be fair to say that violations that may result in civil action in the U.S. may become criminal actions in the E.U. Even the largest American tech firms seem to constantly run afoul of European regulators, which is inexcusable considering their capacity to employ experts in E.U. laws.

For the American kid streaming out of his bedroom, it would be best to avoid taking anything from a publisher at all.
,

redlink1979

What is influencers?! Lol

Kadoin

redlink1979 wrote: »

What is influencers?! Lol

I don't know myself, I just play the game...

Kagukan

I will never understand how someone can sit and watch someone else play a game via stream for long periods of time.

Ogou

Kagukan wrote: »

I will never understand how someone can sit and watch someone else play a game via stream for long periods of time.

Probably because it's entertaining.

TelvanniWizard

Kagukan wrote: »

I will never understand how someone can sit and watch someone else play a game via stream for long periods of time.

Me neither.

MLGProPlayer

This is common knowledge. Glad it's being looked into, but it won't lead to anything.

wishlist14

I was curious once so I veered to the dark side, took a peep and never again.

SydneyGrey

If the Youtube streamer buys the crown crates himself you know he's not getting rigged cards.
If ZOS gives him the cards as a gift, that's when you'd have to question the results.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Not all streamers and youtubers are independant from the companies who sell the products they're featuring in their streams and videos. Nice... "discovery", I guess... ? 'cause that's not really a breaking news...

anitajoneb17_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Negative. Stream team members aren't given free loot boxes to open.

The question is... if it were the case, would you be willing to tell us ? And if so, would you be allowed to ?

(To be clear, in the case of ESO, I believe you. The nature of the game would make it pretty useless to invest in streamers this way. Still, I believe the issue is more than valid for many other kinds of games or products. )

anitajoneb17_ESO

SydneyGrey wrote: »

If the Youtube streamer buys the crown crates himself you know he's not getting rigged cards.
If ZOS gives him the cards as a gift, that's when you'd have to question the results.

The problem is, both situations can be faked if both the company and the streamer agree on the scenario.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Kagukan wrote: »

I will never understand how someone can sit and watch someone else play a game via stream for long periods of time.

I thought the same when I first heard of game streamers, but I changed my mind. After all, it's not much different from watching soccer or tennis on TV because you play soccer or tennis yourself and like the game/sport. Watch World Championship because it's a level you cannot participate in, or watch your nephew play because it's your nephew.
Watching how others play the game. Watching the game without having to focus on what you're doing. I understand that. I wouldn't spend much time watching streamers myself, but I understand why it is a growing business.

Emmagoldman

I remember watching deltia opening them when it came out.

He wasnt happy at all an It was enough to turn me away. Have there been any streamers super excited?. This is awesome!!!!!

rfennell_ESO

Carbonised wrote: »

... you may want to consider this first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tehbMHfyiPw

Take away points:
- The gaming industry commonly pays popular 'influencers' to 'react' to loot boxes and their drops
- Even going so far as to sometimes tweak the odds favourably for the 'influencer's loot boxes, to make them seem more generous
- Who knows what other BS goes on behind the scene, making any 'promises' to reveal loot boxes droprates seem hollow and meaningless at best, and a diversion and smokescreen at worst

It really comes down to not believing people on the internet that are trying to profit from being on the internet.

Hard to rationalize that to a generation of people who are likely to have an epitaph that reads "didn't see the car, but I saw my phone screen". Even harder when you realize they would have to google epitaph or say "SIRI WHAT DOES EP-IT-AP-HUH mean"

FENGRUSH

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Negative. Stream team members aren't given free loot boxes to open.

The question is... if it were the case, would you be willing to tell us ? And if so, would you be allowed to ?

(To be clear, in the case of ESO, I believe you. The nature of the game would make it pretty useless to invest in streamers this way. Still, I believe the issue is more than valid for many other kinds of games or products. )

If it were the case you may not see any reply when confronted or asked. I happened to see this thread and just wanted to take time to tell people it isnt happening for stream team folks.

Not worth hitting my brand to lie over crown crates. I been screwed all the same with them many times over.

But this issue is absolutely valid in the industry. Microtransactions dominating the gaming world right now has led to a lower quality in content of games across the board and poor reception in new games. The industry is forced into managing microtransactions to stay alive and competitive.

KerinKor

therift wrote: »

To be fair, this video rests on a statement made by a participant who runs some sort of 'streamer management' company. This person initially claimed loot box shilling was a common practice, but when asked for clarification, this person backed waaaay off and said he only heard it mentioned once in a room he was in..

Stop even remotely defending this scummy tactic, it's gone on for years and that statement is nothing new.

Ogou

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

... you may want to consider this first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tehbMHfyiPw

Take away points:
- The gaming industry commonly pays popular 'influencers' to 'react' to loot boxes and their drops
- Even going so far as to sometimes tweak the odds favourably for the 'influencer's loot boxes, to make them seem more generous
- Who knows what other BS goes on behind the scene, making any 'promises' to reveal loot boxes droprates seem hollow and meaningless at best, and a diversion and smokescreen at worst

It really comes down to not believing people on the internet that are trying to profit from being on the internet.

Hard to rationalize that to a generation of people who are likely to have an epitaph that reads "didn't see the car, but I saw my phone screen". Even harder when you realize they would have to google epitaph or say "SIRI WHAT DOES EP-IT-AP-HUH mean"

Don't know, man. My grandma seems a lot more likely to trust random stuff on the internet than most kids I know.

Linaleah

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Didn’t know there was such a thing as popular ESO streamers.

ZoS has been known occasionally to go for mainstream streamers and gift them ESO to get more twitch etc exposure. Yoggcast of the top of my head, I beleive there were others, but Yoggcast is the one I remember for sure.

now.. that does NOT mean they gave those streamers better box odds, becasue TBH - I don't remember them actualy opening any boxes on their streams, just exploring the game mostly - quests in newest expac and dungeons. but.. you know, practice of sponsoring streams is very much a confirmed thing. its part of standard marketing strategy nowadays.

JimmyJuJu

rpa wrote: »

I've seen exactly one.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=gLxTxh6l8eI

Edit: Spoiler it's the same as the video in post above. Happens sometimes.

I watched Deltia open these crates when I first started playing ESO and made a vow to myself to never, ever spend money on crates. I'd rather take the $100 and spend it on...anything else.

therift

redlink1979 wrote: »

What is influencers?! Lol

Anytime

KerinKor wrote: »

therift wrote: »

To be fair, this video rests on a statement made by a participant who runs some sort of 'streamer management' company. This person initially claimed loot box shilling was a common practice, but when asked for clarification, this person backed waaaay off and said he only heard it mentioned once in a room he was in..

Stop even remotely defending this scummy tactic, it's gone on for years and that statement is nothing new.

Stop misrepresenting my statement, please. It's scummy of you to do so.

BRogueNZ

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Didn’t know there was such a thing as popular ESO streamers.

A few have strong and loyal community, they may not get the numbers of someone like shroud who gets 20-30k viewers 'just chatting' but popular within the eso community none the less.

Never heard the expression 'Streamer rng' or 'Streamer luck'?

I have a little more faith in the integrity of our more popular eso streamers.

Mayrael

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Next time you see popular streamers open a bunch of crown crates ...

You may want to consider what you're actually doing with your life.

Exactly, I don't get it, why you would watch some random kido that is not smarter in any way than his viewer. I guess it's "cool" these days.

Chicharron

if someone is stupid enough to be influenced that way...

well deserved whatever happens.