Fossilise needs a nerf ASAP
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Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676794
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Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why does a PvE'er care if fossilize loses its root?
It has nothing to do with fossilize and everything to do with PvP'ers constantly demanding nerfs which then directly affect PvE'ers.0 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭
It has nothing to do with fossilize and everything to do with PvP'ers constantly demanding nerfs which then directly affect PvE'ers.
So you came to the “PVP Combat and Skills” section of the forum to tell people to stop discussing how skills affect PVP?
Begone, troll.10 -
Vanos444✭✭✭✭✭It needs to be dodgeable or remove stun and add immobilize to its spell, can be dodge roll to break the effect.( will cost less and return resources after 5 sec duration)0 -
Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually no. This is also on recent discussions....you can't hide behind a sub-forum.
And yes that is exactly the reaction I would expect from PvP'ers, who are the most vociferous section of the forum, and do not give a damn that every nerf they demand from ZOS (and too often get) can wreck PvE'ers builds.
You don't see this behaviour from PvE'ers, who are usually fighting against nerfs.
Unfortunately most PvE'ers won't see this to back me up....but I stand ny my beliefs.
Have a nice day.1 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually no. This is also on recent discussions....you can't hide behind a sub-forum.
And yes that is exactly the reaction I would expect from PvP'ers, who are the most vociferous section of the forum, and do not give a damn that every nerf they demand from ZOS (and too often get) can wreck PvE'ers builds.
You don't see this behaviour from PvE'ers, who are usually fighting against nerfs.
Unfortunately most PvE'ers won't see this to back me up....but I stand ny my beliefs.
Have a nice day.
Lololool. Ofc PvEers call for nerfs, but they want to nerf dungeons, bosses, etc. because that’s what kills them. Pvpers call for players skill nerfs because that’s what kills PvPers. Time to get off your high horse.2 -
jaime1982✭✭✭✭
Lololool. Ofc PvEers call for nerfs, but they want to nerf dungeons, bosses, etc. because that’s what kills them. Pvpers call for players skill nerfs because that’s what kills PvPers. Time to get off your high horse.
Yep, pve'rs are what made most of the content so boring and soloable.0 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »@Vizirith
The issue isn’t that fossilize has a secondary effect, the issue is that a rooting an enemy player is far too powerful to be considered a “secondary effect” on an ability that already CC’s. Removing the root, would naturally come with replacing the root with some other effect.
Nobody would be complaining if Fossilize just gave a minor buff/debuff or healed for a bit.
I don’t disagree that immobilize is a powerful secondary effect, I just don’t know if it is arguably too powerful. With the changes in scalebreaker stamdk’s will have to take a long look to see if it is still worth it. If going seventh legion good luck having enough magicka to keep up the buff with frag shield and fossilize.
As far as alternative secondary effects: What about if instead of the root it was cheaper and an aoe? How about if it had a big burst heal? Major fracture? Range and aoe? Aoe and minor protection and minor endurance (granted less useful with redundancy with rally/fw)? Ranged with burst heal?
And then there is the whole redundancy in general. No cc is the game is the same. Maybe instead of immobilize it gave a version of the old empower with bonus to next ability used on the target? Make the shattering rock morph heal thing have infinite duration forcing the heal to work? Add an increased stamina cost to all abilities or x secs instead? Keeping with the stamina sapping use it does now
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JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So the main arguement that a stun + root on a non counterplay is l2p and drink a immo pot?
One skill shutting ALL down.. that sounds like a balanced skill. Yes totally. If you need a skill that has no counterplay to shut down someone... i can see why you feel the need to defend it.
Again... l2p as the main argument. I can deal with the skill just fine but i do think it is oveloaded like this. Fear is also way easier to avoid than fossilize and even the cc is quicker and easier to break these days. So again... a non counterplay stun and a non counterplay root... is balanced and a l2p issue?
Why is removing the root such a problem for you anyway? You will still be able to fossilze that nasty rolling player who is bullying you and there is nothing he or she can do about it... you can still brawl.
There is counter play. Immovables, immunity, if caught with it break free, then dodge roll, wings, race against time, mist, escapist poisons on and on. Or just stand in it and attack, stand in it and heal, stand in it and block. It eventually wears of and you have IMMUNITY.
IT IS A L2p issue. Learn to do some of those things lol.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The arrogance to think stuff doesn't get changed for the sake of PvE where PvP players suffer. It is pointless trying to divide the community like this and point fingers. Whenever something overperforms/underperforms, things need to change. Period.
It has nothing to do with fossilize and everything to do with PvP'ers constantly demanding nerfs which then directly affect PvE'ers.5 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭JumpmanLane wrote: »
There is counter play. Immovables, immunity, if caught with it break free, then dodge roll, wings, race against time, mist, escapist poisons on and on. Or just stand in it and attack, stand in it and heal, stand in it and block. It eventually wears of and you have IMMUNITY.
IT IS A L2p issue. Learn to do some of those things lol.
Not dying to the necro bash build was an L2P issue but it was patched midway through a update, L2P is the cheap excuse ro “please don’t nerf my over performing build” I should have been spamming it on the forums when people were calling for the curse, runecage, meteor, frag combo to be nerfed (which is essentially the same if not a weaker version of fossilise with rune cage not immobilising you afterwards)0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not dying to the necro bash build was an L2P issue but it was patched midway through a update, L2P is the cheap excuse ro “please don’t nerf my over performing build” I should have been spamming it on the forums when people were calling for the curse, runecage, meteor, frag combo to be nerfed (which is essentially the same if not a weaker version of fossilise with rune cage not immobilising you afterwards)
They’ve ALREADY nerfed Fossilize: immunity, cost increase (THIS PATCH), range decrease.
There’s counter-play: Immovables, immunity, break free; then, dodge roll, Race Against Time, Wings, Mist...
Learn to do some of that. Duel more. Or something. If you’re zerging, dependent upon others for your heals and damage etc, you really need to learn to take care of yourself 1v1.
Nerfs are not the answer. It’s REALLY a learn to play issue if you’re expecting sets, skills, cp or even your entire build to carry you. ZOS could indeed remove Fossilize from the game but you’d be out played by something else...SOMEONE who took the time to become more skilled at the game. By skill, I mean someone who is running a build that requires a brain and more than pushing one or two buttons.
I’m not running an over performing build I’m afraid will be nerfed. You don’t know what my build is and I don’t give out builds lol. What I’m running requires I DO something to get something: sustain, damage, heals, ALL that. Lol.
Good luck!
Edited by JumpmanLane on August 22, 2019 10:02AM2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This skill just is just the most ridiculously over performing cc in the game and makes the old rune cage look tame in comparison. In CP pvp there are already enough snares , CC’s and immobilises to have 1 skill that wrap the 2 worst together. there is nothing worse than kiting on a medium armour build to be instantly wiped because of this skill alone. Combined with half a dozen dots even the most incapable player can sit there perm blocking, fossilise then leap or meteor and get easy kills with a 2 button combo.
In non CP most magica builds don’t have the stamina recovery to break the CC, dodge roll the immobilise and then break the next CC (most builds don’t have the barspace to run race against time). For some reason Rune cage was nerfed multiple ways in 1 update but this even better skill persists update to update without change.
Don't hold your breath. Sorc whining > anything DK. Hahahahaha.Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
The only people that say its fine are people that spam the fossilized crap over and over.
The crap is stupid cheese.
You end up run out of stam, get stam locked, and get killed trying to break and dodge roll just to get a way from some newb that just spams it.
Its a crutch.
Honestly the entire game needs another rework on skills.3 -
Cernunnos55✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »@Vizirith
The issue isn’t that fossilize has a secondary effect, the issue is that a rooting an enemy player is far too powerful to be considered a “secondary effect” on an ability that already CC’s. Removing the root, would naturally come with replacing the root with some other effect.
Nobody would be complaining if Fossilize just gave a minor buff/debuff or healed for a bit.
Why is that too powerful? It's a thing that needs a counter. Cloak has counters, shields have counters, high health builds have counters - is it that Fossilize is "OP", or is it that some folk are just too lazy to slot a basic thing to counter it?
Now I personally don't even use Fossilize. I cannot find an argument to claim that it is OP in any way shape or form. I don't like using it. I don't like the idea of my enemy having CC immunity to both root and stun for almost the same amount of time after they break out of Fossilize fully, especially when my whip relies upon it. I actually go with a combo of Stone Giant > Whip > Talons > Whip. More control over the duration of it all, and both of those CCs are fast enough that they probably won't be blocking anyway.Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.
R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP1 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭Holy potato thread batman!
I get the feeling there's a lot of permacloaked roly poly bowtards here.
L2P 100%
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where is that Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif when you need it?
I can't wait to see the same people who thought Rune Cage needed to be nerfed into the ground come in here and explain why Fossilize is "just fine".#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
GhostofDatthaw✭✭✭✭✭Actually no. This is also on recent discussions....you can't hide behind a sub-forum.
And yes that is exactly the reaction I would expect from PvP'ers, who are the most vociferous section of the forum, and do not give a damn that every nerf they demand from ZOS (and too often get) can wreck PvE'ers builds.
You don't see this behaviour from PvE'ers, who are usually fighting against nerfs.
Unfortunately most PvE'ers won't see this to back me up....but I stand ny my beliefs.
Have a nice day.
Lol, pve players crying about magnb being too strong and versitile ruined an entire PvP playstyle....so you're just wrong1 -
Cernunnos55✭✭✭Someone remind me: What's the range on fossilise again?Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.
R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Where is that Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif when you need it?
I can't wait to see the same people who thought Rune Cage needed to be nerfed into the ground come in here and explain why Fossilize is "just fine".
They're gonna do it with the range argument.
(^_-)2 -
Cernunnos55✭✭✭
Nah, because no one wants to admit that this ridiculously OP and over the top zergslaying emp-level vet-trial-final-boss-one-shotting warhead skill has a diabolically awesome range of...
7 metres.Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.
R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All stun abilities need a 10m range and a 4 second maximum duration.
All stuns need to be unblockable.
All aoe stuns need to be unblockable and undodgeable.
All stuns need to cost 5000 single target, 6000 aoe.
Counterplay is breakfree or immunity status, period.
hard CC immunity should be 7-8 seconds so you have to hold your CC for just the right moment.
Stuns should have single effect, stun, no additional affects, damage, etc. But they should be expensive, easy to land, and a game changer if the target doesn't have immunity or break free.
The only exception is the heavy attack stun/stagger after blocking a heavy attack, which should ignore immunity status.0 -
Cernunnos55✭✭✭All stun abilities need a 10m range and a 4 second maximum duration.
All stuns need to be unblockable.
All aoe stuns need to be unblockable and undodgeable.
All stuns need to cost 5000 single target, 6000 aoe.
Counterplay is breakfree or immunity status, period.
hard CC immunity should be 7-8 seconds so you have to hold your CC for just the right moment.
Stuns should have single effect, stun, no additional affects, damage, etc. But they should be expensive, easy to land, and a game changer if the target doesn't have immunity or break free.
The only exception is the heavy attack stun/stagger after blocking a heavy attack, which should ignore immunity status.
Mostly terrible ideas.Guild Master of The Pride of Daggerfall, D.C. loyalist and commander of the Cerglings.
R’hana – Khajiit – StamBlade – Crafter/PvP
Iranduril – Altmer – MagSorc – PvE DPS
Sayelo Tomylilfren – Argonian – Hybrid Dragonknight – PvE Tank
A Brexit Policy – Redguard – StamSorc – PvP4 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I mean if these people have issues will viable solo ranged playstyles. They should simply go play Korean MMOs. Where they gimp Mages and Ranged playstyles. Because in their culture ranged fighters and casters are weak cowards.
Western MMOs since the beginning. Always try to make both Range and Melee playstyles viable. But here we are in the first Western Fantasy MMO where casters are completely overshadowed by melee.
Don't even get me started on the Mage hate these developers and forum community show in ESO. 25 or more of my Caster friends haven't logged into ESO in over 18 months. They left right after ProcBlade META but unlike me they didn't return.
Back on topic tho.. I believe Fossilized should either be nerfed. Or Rune Cage should be buffed back to it former glory. Because that would be balance.1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Where is that Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif when you need it?
I can't wait to see the same people who thought Rune Cage needed to be nerfed into the ground come in here and explain why Fossilize is "just fine".
Ok. 1) I was a mag sorc main prior to this patch. 2) Currently playing a dk
Rune cage was massively overturned due to the range. 28 meters undodgeable and unblockable is a massive difference than a short range skill with the same properties. Dont pretend deleting people with zero counterplay at long range is fine.
Personally, I think rune cage should do damage again (not just if the CC goes the full duration). Roll dodge is a lot more popular than perma blocking these days.
Fossilize is a single target stun with a short range. If you think it needs a nerf, streak should in all honesty be next or concurrent with it. A group aoe stun that is undodgeable and unblockable is just as "OP" as fossilize. Streak also has double the range of fossilize.Edited by iCaliban on September 5, 2019 2:10PM1 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »
I mean if these people have issues will viable solo ranged playstyles. They should simply go play Korean MMOs. Where they gimp Mages and Ranged playstyles. Because in their culture ranged fighters and casters are weak cowards.
Western MMOs since the beginning. Always try to make both Range and Melee playstyles viable. But here we are in the first Western Fantasy MMO where casters are completely overshadowed by melee.
Don't even get me started on the Mage hate these developers and forum community show in ESO. 25 or more of my Caster friends haven't logged into ESO in over 18 months. They left right after ProcBlade META but unlike me they didn't return.
Back on topic tho.. I believe Fossilized should either be nerfed. Or Rune Cage should be buffed back to it former glory. Because that would be balance.
Ok. 1) I was a mag sorc main prior to this patch. 2) Currently playing a dk
Rune cage was massively overturned due to the range. 28 meters undodgeable and unblockable is a massive difference than a short range skill with the same properties. Dont pretend deleting people with zero counterplay at long range is fine.
Personally, I think rune cage should do damage again (not just if the CC goes the full duration). Roll dodge is a lot more popular than perma blocking these days.
Fossilize is a single target stun with a short range. If you think it needs a nerf, streak should in all honesty be next or concurrent with it. A group aoe stun that is undodgeable and unblockable is just as "OP" as fossilize. Streak also has double the range of fossilize.
*Ranged fighters are weak cowards*
*Dont pretend deleting people at long range with zero counterplay is okay*
Yep but as soon as a melee dude gets close and cc's em and exposes their garbage no regen no defense (besides running away) build, it's straight to the forums to cry!
I'm okay with a fossilize nerf...as long as rapid fire and morphs are rendered useless, snipe and morphs are rendered useless, scatter shot and morphs are rendered useless, and bombard is made into a skill that causes the player using it to lose 10% of their skill points per cast.
Deal?
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iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gatdangmayne wrote: »
*Ranged fighters are weak cowards*
*Dont pretend deleting people at long range with zero counterplay is okay*
Yep but as soon as a melee dude gets close and cc's em and exposes their garbage no regen no defense (besides running away) build, it's straight to the forums to cry!
I'm okay with a fossilize nerf...as long as rapid fire and morphs are rendered useless, snipe and morphs are rendered useless, scatter shot and morphs are rendered useless, and bombard is made into a skill that causes the player using it to lose 10% of their skill points per cast.
Deal?
You may want to breathe before writing. That comes off as a screed and doesnt really convey much thought.
I literally started my comment with "I was a mag sorc main" for details, I was one for over 2 years. Dont assume and project bad faith on people. I also DIDNT say fossilize should be nerfed. I said that if it does deserve a nerf, so too does streak. I do not believe either skill should be nerfed.1 -
Gatdangmayne✭✭✭✭
You may want to breathe before writing. That comes off as a screed and doesnt really convey much thought.
I literally started my comment with "I was a mag sorc main" for details, I was one for over 2 years. Dont assume and project bad faith on people. I also DIDNT say fossilize should be nerfed. I said that if it does deserve a nerf, so too does streak. I do not believe either skill should be nerfed.
Sorry, i didn't mean to come across as if that was aimed at you, i just quoted you and the other dude mainly for the single sentence i retyped from each.
I actually agree with you lol. Slow day here, so wasting more time on forums typing long comments than usual i suppose!1
