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New mana meta - new reality

Heymexa
Heymexa
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Now meta for manna classes is not much different. All use the same abilities. Degenegation, Consuming Trap, Reach, Scadling rune.

1. The identity of the classes is destroyed.
2. No need for spam ability.
3. DPS is less than that of stamina classes.

Total. Mana classes have become uninteresting and NOT NEEDED, since with the same survival rate, DPS is less.

For example, the build for m.Sorcerer:

1. No Spam ability
2. No Liquid Lighning (or flood)
3. No Twilight
Degenegation, Consuming Trap, Reach, Scadling rune. Scamp.


Thank You ZOS.
Good Bye Teso.
p.s Sorry for my poor English and for unnecessary emotions.
Edited by Heymexa on August 10, 2019 6:56AM
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Play magblade, class still have all list: class spammable, execute and unique ability :trollface:

    Restart your router
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Heymexa wrote: »
    Play magblade, class still have all list: class spammable, execute and unique ability :trollface:



    NO!

    1. No spam ability
    2. no safe ability
    3. Melee

    Add safe ability
    Replace the trap
    Add spam ability:

    The result: - 15k dps
    You are not needed in the raid. Go to stamina. And so with all the mana classes in the next patch. Welcome to scalebreaker!

    There is safe/spam ability which is swallow soul. I'm not saying that magblade is that viable, I'm just saying that some classes still have classical setup. About go stamina and so on... this is all a little out of touch for 95% of players. Average raid leaders prefer combined teams, i.e. several stamina dps who will focus on dpsing the boss, while magicka players are dealing with adds and mechanics. And though stamcro is obviously OP, other stamina classes don't have viable aoe ultimate and major vulnerability, have limited ability to deal with some mechanics and only ~5% more dummy dps...

    So after vigor nerf this looks more like problem of lokkestiz and stamcro then stamina as a whole.
    Restart your router
  • Rerum
    Rerum
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    Yep. Thank you ZOS.
    We will get flawless mag characters gameplay - drop dots, smoke, drop dots, tea...LA weaving hard for people, so now you can not really bother with weaving. And with class choose, every mag class will be the same in trials dps wise(utility is questionable), you won't feel this 2-3k dps difference in trials. Good job ZOS.
  • KageNin
    KageNin
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    When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do
    Now to actually put some constructive feedback, with changes this patch class skills are reduntant, stam Dps will use Flurry with vMA dual wild and drop any spmable they have In their kit, same with Magicka classes using Reach,soul trap.
    Now Magicka although parses less on a dummy has advantage of being Ranged, thus better survival Magicka will still dominate in trials like vAS and vCR.
    Edited by KageNin on August 10, 2019 4:39PM
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    My magdk uses spam aka whip, doesn't use soul trap or flame reach, i love scalding rune and degen glad they are finally useful, but trap still feels clunky and trashy, so does channeled, why not give scalding minor force eruption still fits on my bar.

    My survivability is better than stamcro and I'm also more consistent and don't rely on execute or ult; it's all about perspective; that being said I need an execute to be competitive, which a passive would do wonders like cro.

    Try testing stuff yourself, make your own build

    I did 96k on magdk, best its been forever with a more fun rotation

    The only changes that are bad are the healer changes and vigor/forward.momentum, and the ele succession bug.

    So much doom saying, I've tested each and every patch, where are your results, numbers, and rotations of how it's just oh so bad.

    You say numbers based on theory and speculation but that doesn't mean ***; show me something real because what I see, my magDK best position so far, I say magden hit 97k by a reliable source. Liko 95k on nightblade, and my 96k on magdk with only two new skills for me and a more fun rotation that's actually fun and interesting. With actual experience on these changes, I laugh at this post.

    Is it even with stamcro, no
    Do I deserve an equalizer to get there like a passive execute, yes
    Will I? Idk, ask ZOS
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    Play magblade, class still have all list: class spammable, execute and unique ability :trollface:


    FFS, that's Liko. You don't simply take Liko as a reference. He is one of the top DDs if not the top in EU server. Choose someone like Alcast or theasaingod or anyone other than liko.

    Anyhow, magicka/mana might not be a good option in PVE, but they are definetly top tier in Pvp due to their heals and shields. Magplar is god tier on pts fallowf by magden. Stam spec is slowly getting squished in pvp now. I guess both specs have their ups and downs.
  • Vlad9425
    Vlad9425
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    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...
  • katorga
    katorga
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    The fact is, one cast of any of these DOTs is worth more damage than one cast of Blastbones over a full duration.

    From the text description of Liko's mag necro parse video. Every mag class is now the same, same sets, same skills, same rotation, just like stam, and they all do around the same dps (95K mag, 103K stam).

    The only fun role left, sort of, is tanking. And they only need 2-3 of those.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    You can still play like elsywre set up, but maybe 5k dps drop. Overall, this change mainly effect score runners more than anyone else.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    [
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...

    Vigor isnt nerfed compared with life; at least on selfhealing. It´s a nerf for "healers" but doesn´t affect own performance. Actually there is a small buff there.

    Rally isnt a hot anymore, but a somewhat burst heal. Caltrops and Trap nerfed as every AOE dot.

    Sure, some are nerfs and everyone used them, and stamina classes will stop using 2 skills. Maybe 3.

    But they didnt take half way of class identity as ZoS has done to magSorcs this patch, destroying petsorc with Matriarch nerf, AOE nerf, LL nerf, Clench nerf, Shields nerf, Surge nerf... the Sorcs will stop using 6-7 skill slots. Not a joke. (actually for my Sorc im glad as looks like im having a new class... fun!)
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    [
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...

    Vigor isnt nerfed compared with life; at least on selfhealing. It´s a nerf for "healers" but doesn´t affect own performance. Actually there is a small buff there.

    Rally isnt a hot anymore, but a somewhat burst heal. Caltrops and Trap nerfed as every AOE dot.

    Sure, some are nerfs and everyone used them, and stamina classes will stop using 2 skills. Maybe 3.

    But they didnt take half way of class identity as ZoS has done to magSorcs this patch, destroying petsorc with Matriarch nerf, AOE nerf, LL nerf, Clench nerf, Shields nerf, Surge nerf... the Sorcs will stop using 6-7 skill slots. Not a joke. (actually for my Sorc im glad as looks like im having a new class... fun!)

    Vigor is nerfed in compare to what it did at the begining of pts. I understand that they reduced its value because of healer in pve. However, Pvp wise, they almost killed most stam builds that way. 3 new dots, and each ticks higher than vigor. You get two, you die with the vigor in pts. 2 undodgable dots, if anyone though of dodging them. They are unblockable as well.
  • Saril_Durzam
    Saril_Durzam
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    [
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...

    Vigor isnt nerfed compared with life; at least on selfhealing. It´s a nerf for "healers" but doesn´t affect own performance. Actually there is a small buff there.

    Rally isnt a hot anymore, but a somewhat burst heal. Caltrops and Trap nerfed as every AOE dot.

    Sure, some are nerfs and everyone used them, and stamina classes will stop using 2 skills. Maybe 3.

    But they didnt take half way of class identity as ZoS has done to magSorcs this patch, destroying petsorc with Matriarch nerf, AOE nerf, LL nerf, Clench nerf, Shields nerf, Surge nerf... the Sorcs will stop using 6-7 skill slots. Not a joke. (actually for my Sorc im glad as looks like im having a new class... fun!)

    Vigor is nerfed in compare to what it did at the begining of pts. I understand that they reduced its value because of healer in pve. However, Pvp wise, they almost killed most stam builds that way. 3 new dots, and each ticks higher than vigor. You get two, you die with the vigor in pts. 2 undodgable dots, if anyone though of dodging them. They are unblockable as well.

    Actually, dots affects everyone, not just stamina. Light armor magicka will be much more affected than others, being heavy armor stamina the least.Before patch, Shields could be a reasonable defence vs dots but now, with skyrocketing costs, most mag builds wont be able to sustain, wont have magicka to counter these attacks as they will be usign all theirs to stay alive. 20k dots on Light will be 10k dots on Heavy, perfectly manageable. Even 2 of these dots wont deal more than 20k in 10 secs; just Vigor will regen 16k with 2 casts in those 10 secs, and health regen will do the other 4k. And only spending 2 GCDs of 10 and little stamina (compared with high mag cost), the stamina heavy armor will destroy light armor dot users.

    Dots wont be kings of PvP, Heavy armor stamina will be... like they are now.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    [
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...

    Vigor isnt nerfed compared with life; at least on selfhealing. It´s a nerf for "healers" but doesn´t affect own performance. Actually there is a small buff there.

    Rally isnt a hot anymore, but a somewhat burst heal. Caltrops and Trap nerfed as every AOE dot.

    Sure, some are nerfs and everyone used them, and stamina classes will stop using 2 skills. Maybe 3.

    But they didnt take half way of class identity as ZoS has done to magSorcs this patch, destroying petsorc with Matriarch nerf, AOE nerf, LL nerf, Clench nerf, Shields nerf, Surge nerf... the Sorcs will stop using 6-7 skill slots. Not a joke. (actually for my Sorc im glad as looks like im having a new class... fun!)

    Vigor is nerfed in compare to what it did at the begining of pts. I understand that they reduced its value because of healer in pve. However, Pvp wise, they almost killed most stam builds that way. 3 new dots, and each ticks higher than vigor. You get two, you die with the vigor in pts. 2 undodgable dots, if anyone though of dodging them. They are unblockable as well.

    Actually, dots affects everyone, not just stamina. Light armor magicka will be much more affected than others, being heavy armor stamina the least.Before patch, Shields could be a reasonable defence vs dots but now, with skyrocketing costs, most mag builds wont be able to sustain, wont have magicka to counter these attacks as they will be usign all theirs to stay alive. 20k dots on Light will be 10k dots on Heavy, perfectly manageable. Even 2 of these dots wont deal more than 20k in 10 secs; just Vigor will regen 16k with 2 casts in those 10 secs, and health regen will do the other 4k. And only spending 2 GCDs of 10 and little stamina (compared with high mag cost), the stamina heavy armor will destroy light armor dot users.

    Dots wont be kings of PvP, Heavy armor stamina will be... like they are now.

    Few things

    One, trap wasn't nerfed, changed to barbed and is a buff and isn't an aoe.

    Two, heavy armor stamina isn't king, nothing is, it's all playstyle and opportunity cost, I have a burst heal and a shield, now if I use resto I can have my own vigor and healing ward is no small mention, AND I get capped resistances in light armour, do you even try to build because it's sounding like you are regurgitating what people say and never test these things on the PTS.

    Three, Matriarch nerf is still free passive damage and a burst heal for two people.

    Four, crafty alfiq, bright throat, 0 bastion 8-9k harness magicka.

    Five, rally isn't a burst heal on demand and requires a 2hander.

    Six, vigor is a nerf because 4s versus 5s kills the offensive window.

    Seven, I'm going to guess you only use magsorc, and not much else because you don't seem to understand so much about stam and what it's all about and what they go through; you can talk about your class but unless you have perspective don't try to explain things you don't understand.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    [
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Vigor nerfed, Rally nerfed, Caltrops nerfed, Rearming Trap nerfed, among all the other nerfs class specific or otherwise nerfs to stam. I don't think Mag builds are the only ones nerfed this update...

    Vigor isnt nerfed compared with life; at least on selfhealing. It´s a nerf for "healers" but doesn´t affect own performance. Actually there is a small buff there.

    Rally isnt a hot anymore, but a somewhat burst heal. Caltrops and Trap nerfed as every AOE dot.

    Sure, some are nerfs and everyone used them, and stamina classes will stop using 2 skills. Maybe 3.

    But they didnt take half way of class identity as ZoS has done to magSorcs this patch, destroying petsorc with Matriarch nerf, AOE nerf, LL nerf, Clench nerf, Shields nerf, Surge nerf... the Sorcs will stop using 6-7 skill slots. Not a joke. (actually for my Sorc im glad as looks like im having a new class... fun!)

    Vigor is nerfed in compare to what it did at the begining of pts. I understand that they reduced its value because of healer in pve. However, Pvp wise, they almost killed most stam builds that way. 3 new dots, and each ticks higher than vigor. You get two, you die with the vigor in pts. 2 undodgable dots, if anyone though of dodging them. They are unblockable as well.

    Actually, dots affects everyone, not just stamina. Light armor magicka will be much more affected than others, being heavy armor stamina the least.Before patch, Shields could be a reasonable defence vs dots but now, with skyrocketing costs, most mag builds wont be able to sustain, wont have magicka to counter these attacks as they will be usign all theirs to stay alive. 20k dots on Light will be 10k dots on Heavy, perfectly manageable. Even 2 of these dots wont deal more than 20k in 10 secs; just Vigor will regen 16k with 2 casts in those 10 secs, and health regen will do the other 4k. And only spending 2 GCDs of 10 and little stamina (compared with high mag cost), the stamina heavy armor will destroy light armor dot users.

    Dots wont be kings of PvP, Heavy armor stamina will be... like they are now.

    Few things

    One, trap wasn't nerfed, changed to barbed and is a buff and isn't an aoe.

    Two, heavy armor stamina isn't king, nothing is, it's all playstyle and opportunity cost, I have a burst heal and a shield, now if I use resto I can have my own vigor and healing ward is no small mention, AND I get capped resistances in light armour, do you even try to build because it's sounding like you are regurgitating what people say and never test these things on the PTS.

    Three, Matriarch nerf is still free passive damage and a burst heal for two people.

    Four, crafty alfiq, bright throat, 0 bastion 8-9k harness magicka.

    Five, rally isn't a burst heal on demand and requires a 2hander.

    Six, vigor is a nerf because 4s versus 5s kills the offensive window.

    Seven, I'm going to guess you only use magsorc, and not much else because you don't seem to understand so much about stam and what it's all about and what they go through; you can talk about your class but unless you have perspective don't try to explain things you don't understand.

    Good mention is that rally can only be activated after 15 secs to get the "burst heal". FM and rally both lost their HOT.

    For all stam classes, vigor, rally, scatter shot are options of heals. Rally require 2h, scatter shot require bow; both skills limit the player play style, just like if you need major fracutre on stam sorc and stamplar, you either have to use SnB puncture skill or mother gaze set.

    As for magicka, shields are option like magsorc. No shields? Templar have raw healing power , it survive by spaming class healing skills if it wants or use resto skills, other mags classes have that option as well.

    Medium armor is gutted next patch with the changes to new dots and vigor, rally/fm IMO. High dmg, low survivability. Heavy armor moderate survivability and high dmg. Light armor has high survivability and moderate dmg. Who lives and fight longer wins at the end.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    Grandma wrote: »
    each class still has some flavor, and there are a few that have a good amount [necromancer comes to mind]. magdps is fun and usable 100%. you can play however you want. people making it sound like the end of the world are score pushers. you can replace a few skills with new dots and still do good dps.

    This.
    Not everyone care about score pushing and pulling 90k+ on dummie.
    You don't need that much to do content..

    Their is room for lot of flavored build if ppl are creative.
    PC - EU
    J'Zarhim - Night Blade - Healer
    Orack Magus - Templar - Healer
    Blâme-le-Tank - Warden - Healer
    Orack Herumor - Sorcerer - Healer
    Orack Maesa - Dragon Knight - Healer

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !


  • OhNoDaedra
    OhNoDaedra
    Soul Shriven
    u just need to play a patch and do not get the answer about it now, I think all will be great, ESO needs to see forward
This discussion has been closed.