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Scalding Rune -> Give minor force like barbed trap

  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    been calling for this for a long time. THIS NEEDS to happen. You will get a lot of stam users coming in here who don't want to adapt, crying that magicka needs nothing, but fight the good fight.

    Nearly 3 weeks since OP started that topic and I still don't see "a lot of stam users coming in here who don't want to adapt...". Are you just stiring things up to feel like you fight the good fight? ;-)

    Let's not care about that, let's focus on constructive things, both of you, please.
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    how about giving channeled acceleration a damage proc, sort of like grim focus. i don't know, i just don't want another dot to watch countdown before refreshing.

    I'm not against this, in fact it would be intriguing; however, I use trap right not it would just be replacing a stam skill with a mag skill which would fit my identity as a magicka user, instead of a clunky stam skill.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
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    . I'm not against this, in fact it would be intriguing; however, I use trap right not it would just be replacing a stam skill with a mag skill which would fit my identity as a magicka user, instead of a clunky stam skill.

    I totally get why you want to use a magic skill on a magic toon. Not sure what that has to do with putting a damage proc on CA. Personally I would not want the proc linked to light attacks, maybe every 4th magic skill you use procs a damage burst. Something. Anything but another dot. I wouldn't want it to be just a rip off of frags or grim focus.
    Edited by OG_Kaveman on August 27, 2019 6:17PM
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    . I'm not against this, in fact it would be intriguing; however, I use trap right not it would just be replacing a stam skill with a mag skill which would fit my identity as a magicka user, instead of a clunky stam skill.

    I totally get why you want to use a magic skill on a magic toon. Not sure what that has to do with putting a damage proc on CA. Personally I would not want the proc linked to light attacks, maybe every 4th magic skill you use procs a damage burst. Something. Anything but another dot. I wouldn't want it to be just a rip off of frags or grim focus.

    I may have not been perfectly clear; I'm not sure how channelled acceleration could have a damage component, just that I am open to this; however, the point at hand is Scalding rune; which I am more than fine with being a DoT as it is now, just with minor force as well to be in line with trap beast.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • WrathOfInnos
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    . I'm not against this, in fact it would be intriguing; however, I use trap right not it would just be replacing a stam skill with a mag skill which would fit my identity as a magicka user, instead of a clunky stam skill.

    I totally get why you want to use a magic skill on a magic toon. Not sure what that has to do with putting a damage proc on CA. Personally I would not want the proc linked to light attacks, maybe every 4th magic skill you use procs a damage burst. Something. Anything but another dot. I wouldn't want it to be just a rip off of frags or grim focus.

    That is sounding pretty similar to Spell Orb, which procs damage after 5 casts of Accelerate or Elemental Weapon. I’m not sure it would really matter anyway, bar space is so valuable with the new DoTs that Channeled Accel would be nearly impossible to fit. Maybe it could have a niche use if something like Minor Berserk or Major Evasion was added for the 36s duration.

    Scalding Rune is much more likely to earn a bar slot (since it can be used as a DoT, a semi-spammable, empowers, and gives decent passives for slotting). I definitely support adding Minor Force to it.
  • OG_Kaveman
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    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    . I'm not against this, in fact it would be intriguing; however, I use trap right not it would just be replacing a stam skill with a mag skill which would fit my identity as a magicka user, instead of a clunky stam skill.

    I totally get why you want to use a magic skill on a magic toon. Not sure what that has to do with putting a damage proc on CA. Personally I would not want the proc linked to light attacks, maybe every 4th magic skill you use procs a damage burst. Something. Anything but another dot. I wouldn't want it to be just a rip off of frags or grim focus.

    That is sounding pretty similar to Spell Orb, which procs damage after 5 casts of Accelerate or Elemental Weapon. I’m not sure it would really matter anyway, bar space is so valuable with the new DoTs that Channeled Accel would be nearly impossible to fit. Maybe it could have a niche use if something like Minor Berserk or Major Evasion was added for the 36s duration.

    Scalding Rune is much more likely to earn a bar slot (since it can be used as a DoT, a semi-spammable, empowers, and gives decent passives for slotting). I definitely support adding Minor Force to it.

    i am aware of how spell orb works. i am talking about something that is more active though. just going through dots is mind numbing to me. i would like an alternative to just watching 12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. or 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 or 18-17-16-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. you understand what i mean? i like using actual spammable attacks. i love frag procs (even on my pet sorc). i love the bow proc on NB(even though i am not that good at light attacking). now i totally get this is preference, but man, aren't you tired of just doing that too?

    i am also aware of how rune works and you make scaling rune sound overloaded already. i really don't like the way people have be stacking their bars with single target dots and using rune as you said, a semi-spammable. it ought to be an aoe dot. maybe a cost increase would deter people from using that skill you are saying, like Eruption, which is a similar skill in function, a burst AOE followed by a(n aoe) dot, is 5670, it only last for 30% longer(18 seconds vs 14 seconds after passives) but costs 105% more(5670 vs 2754, after the 15% Mage Adept passive). rune ought to be at least 3750(66% of the 5670), probably closer to 4,000, before the 15% cost reduction passive in the skill line, that would put rune at 3188 magic. if you put minor force on rune, the cost would definitely have to go up.
    Edited by OG_Kaveman on August 28, 2019 7:11PM
  • WrathOfInnos
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    @OG_Kaveman I agree the DoT rotations are not very fun. The most enjoyable dynamic rotation I remember was back when Sorc used Force Pulse spammable, Frag procs, Endless Fury and Curse with a 3.5s duration. It was a very active play style, where you had to adapt and use skills purposefully (no Curse if something isn’t going to be alive in 4s, Endless Fury if they are going to hit 20% within the next few seconds, prioritizing Frag procs, etc.). Definitely more interesting than just cycling 10 DoTs.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    I am sorry to hear you don't have a spam, I am a magDK and so I have a spammable and it's not going to be another DoT it's just replacing trap.

    Scalding rune does not need a cost change for several reasons, including minor force should have been on it from the very start just like trap beast.

    It has a 2 second trigger
    The radius is 3 meters which is incredibly tiny.
    The aoe DoT is much smaller than any other DoT, quick example eruption does 5k dps over time while scalding rune does roughly 2.5k.
    The "spam" damage is less than other spams.
    The other effects are mage guild passives and shouldn't be taken into account of the skills cost itself.
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
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    I am sorry to hear you don't have a spam, I am a magDK and so I have a spammable and it's not going to be another DoT it's just replacing trap.

    Scalding rune does not need a cost change for several reasons, including minor force should have been on it from the very start just like trap beast.

    It has a 2 second trigger
    The radius is 3 meters which is incredibly tiny.
    The aoe DoT is much smaller than any other DoT, quick example eruption does 5k dps over time while scalding rune does roughly 2.5k.
    The "spam" damage is less than other spams.
    The other effects are mage guild passives and shouldn't be taken into account of the skills cost itself.

    the skill absolutely needs a cost increase. people are using it as a "spammable". it is supposed to be an aoe dot, like eruption. when you see people dropping their spammable for this skill, as people have, there is a problem. now you mention that it is only 3 meters, then increase the size of the aoe. to like 6 meters. or if you want to add minor force, the damage needs to only proc on one target and the initial hits damage needs to be adjusted (read: lowered) to match that, like the same damage as any other dot that has an initial hit followed by a dot, like sun fire or destro reach, then maybe lower the cost to match those types of skills. right now the skill is overperforming, taking up 2 roles, a dot AND a "spammable" aoe and the cost just does not reflect that.


    my maths suggests that that rune is only ~30% weaker then eruption, if both are allowed to go their full duration and on the same build, which is not the case as most people use rune as a "spammable", which still does not justify the fact that rune is less than half the cost and you want to put minor force on it. i was also wrong about the length of the skill, it is 16 seconds, i forgot to add the 2 second arm time, you so rightly pointed out, so eruption lasts for 12% longer but costs 105% more.


    looking at similar skills, like shards and eruption, the initial hit is way out of line, the damage is like 25% stronger, that ought to be fixed and the dot upped, to bring the skill in line with the other aoe dots. or change it to single target, then you need to lower the initial hit as well and way up the dot damage. it is no wonder you see so many builds using rune now, the skill is clearly over performing( now that is a sentence i never thought i would type) and needs to be brought in line with the standards that ZoS is trying to implement.


    you say the "The "spam" damage is less than other spams", the numbers i see, have it as around the same as other single target spammables and it is AOE, now yes, it has a 2 second arm time, but when it goes off, it does more damage them say, force pulse, single target but it is aoe too.
    Edited by OG_Kaveman on August 30, 2019 11:06PM
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Scalding is effectively 14.4s, and should be recast when it is 2s from ending. A new rune can be placed while the DoT is still ticking. I wouldn’t say it is an effective AoE, since it almost never exceeds 1 target (and can easily miss that one, due to the 2s delay and small radius). It actually makes a pretty poor spammable since it cannot be used consecutively and deals less damage than Ele Weapon, but the benefit from gaining a bar slot outweighs its downsides.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on August 31, 2019 1:29AM
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    The 2 second arming time makes it not a spam even if people are dropping spammables for it doesn't make it a spam, look at how much damage shalks does with a delay or blast bones and come back to me for that spam argument.

    Lets look at the initial but it takes 3 gcd before it hits, 1 to cast, 2 to activate, so the initial you have to divide by 3, the dps overtime will reflect this, the DoT overtime is less than all other DoTs, do you use the skill, have you tested it against others?

    Because right now it's meager still versus other single target DoTs, such as flame reach, soul trap, and I'm a magDK with the skill getting buffed by a passive, so it's even more ineffective for other classes, it's hardly an aoe, if you can hit more than one person in 3m, hats off but it's hard enough to hit your single target with it from 28 meters away.

    Lastly to make it the best possible outcome you want to use it every 12 seconds after the initial outcome, so by spamming it you are losing dps in place of a spammable, currently the argument is barspace, whats taking up that barspace currently with minor force attached and does more dps on stam toons? Barbed trap with a freaking 18 second dot and less arm time, so I can sit here making comparisons of why it doesn't need an increase in cost even if it gets minor force because against other skills that cost less it still kicks scalding runes ass and doesn't even get a place on my bar because a stam skill is outperforming it because minor force and a *** dot since im a mag toon, but I'd rather be constructive and add a quality of life change giving scalding rune something because right now it's still not a skill I care about and it still it out performed by other skills and isn't comparable to trap which it should be.
    Edited by brandoncoffmannub18_ESO on August 31, 2019 4:36PM
    Raise your arguments, not your insults.

    Jodynn/Jo_oJ PC NA

    PvE and PvP

    MagDK
    StamDK
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