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MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

  • brandonv516
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Was thinking of a different proc build with Caluurions + Doylemish next patch.

    Basic idea is heavy attack + Flame Clench from Cloak. Flame clench stuns the enemy + procs Caluurions and the heavy attack hits and procs Doylemish. Caluurions should hit right after.

    I haven't tested it yet but I think the heavy attack would arrive after the stun if properly done.

    For a Monster set I think it could be double recovery (Shadowrend + Chokethorn) to help with sustain issues. Jewelry and Mundus will also need to focus on sustain.

    If you can play with low sustain you could even add the new Monster set (Kjalnars). It would take some real mastery to line all that up though.

    So the numbers would look like:
    Caluurions - 12,900
    Doylemish - 12,500
    Kjalnars - 14,500

    Naw, the heavy attack will miss unless they are late to break free. The only garunteed doylemish proc is still petrify into dw heavy iirc. I even tried it with volcanic rune and it wouldnt work in time since they can technically break free in the air. At melee range there not enough travel time and at clench range the heavy destro will hit when they have already broken free.

    But last I tested this, unlike off balance stun which considers a barely charge attack a "heavy", doly actualy does require a "fully" charged heavy to get the beam.

    Doesn't matter anyways lol because they apparently changed it to melee only.

    In game it says: "fully charged melee heavy attack"
    Wiki page says: "fully charged heavy attack"

  • exeeter702
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Was thinking of a different proc build with Caluurions + Doylemish next patch.

    Basic idea is heavy attack + Flame Clench from Cloak. Flame clench stuns the enemy + procs Caluurions and the heavy attack hits and procs Doylemish. Caluurions should hit right after.

    I haven't tested it yet but I think the heavy attack would arrive after the stun if properly done.

    For a Monster set I think it could be double recovery (Shadowrend + Chokethorn) to help with sustain issues. Jewelry and Mundus will also need to focus on sustain.

    If you can play with low sustain you could even add the new Monster set (Kjalnars). It would take some real mastery to line all that up though.

    So the numbers would look like:
    Caluurions - 12,900
    Doylemish - 12,500
    Kjalnars - 14,500

    Naw, the heavy attack will miss unless they are late to break free. The only garunteed doylemish proc is still petrify into dw heavy iirc. I even tried it with volcanic rune and it wouldnt work in time since they can technically break free in the air. At melee range there not enough travel time and at clench range the heavy destro will hit when they have already broken free.

    But last I tested this, unlike off balance stun which considers a barely charge attack a "heavy", doly actualy does require a "fully" charged heavy to get the beam.

    Doesn't matter anyways lol because they apparently changed it to melee only.

    In game it says: "fully charged melee heavy attack"
    Wiki page says: "fully charged heavy attack"

    omg i didnt even notice that lol......
  • Jeezye
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    anyone played around with fear trap? I thought I might give it a try again to save a GCD in burst combos to better ensure soul harvest/ AW hits. Might need some additional crowd control like slows and roots though to make the trap more reliably hit...
  • Neloth
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    Jeezye wrote: »
    anyone played around with fear trap? I thought I might give it a try again to save a GCD in burst combos to better ensure soul harvest/ AW hits. Might need some additional crowd control like slows and roots though to make the trap more reliably hit...

    It's the same as magnecro's totem: useful against melee, useless against range (which sadly includes a very large group of players, since magsorcs and snipetards).

    You also won't be able to secure kills on bad players, who try to run away and just dodge, dodge, dodge (since they need to be CCed and ass-willed).

    Maybe you can run reach + fear back bar (sometimes I use that on magnecro), but it doesn't help your bar space at all. I prefer to run meteor + fear, or fear + gap closer + harvest, with meteor back-bared. Against competent players I use meteor -> fear -> ass will, while harvest I use against potatoes, or against classes with clear offensive window (like magplars or magsorcs or wardens) who can't dodge much (just harvest -> fear -> ass will in the beginning of their offensive window, to minimise chances of them dodging/blocking/shielding harvest).

  • Jeezye
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    Neloth wrote: »
    Jeezye wrote: »
    anyone played around with fear trap? I thought I might give it a try again to save a GCD in burst combos to better ensure soul harvest/ AW hits. Might need some additional crowd control like slows and roots though to make the trap more reliably hit...

    It's the same as magnecro's totem: useful against melee, useless against range (which sadly includes a very large group of players, since magsorcs and snipetards).

    You also won't be able to secure kills on bad players, who try to run away and just dodge, dodge, dodge (since they need to be CCed and ass-willed).

    Maybe you can run reach + fear back bar (sometimes I use that on magnecro), but it doesn't help your bar space at all. I prefer to run meteor + fear, or fear + gap closer + harvest, with meteor back-bared. Against competent players I use meteor -> fear -> ass will, while harvest I use against potatoes, or against classes with clear offensive window (like magplars or magsorcs or wardens) who can't dodge much (just harvest -> fear -> ass will in the beginning of their offensive window, to minimise chances of them dodging/blocking/shielding harvest).

    The range issue is what I thought of too, thats why I said a combination of roots might be nice. Also if you stick to their face which you usually do anyways when pressuring, the automatically created rune below you might work decently if you really stay on top of them.

    I havent really tried it, but it might become really valuable if parcticed since its also amazing for kiting and delaying burst...
  • Jeezye
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    Ohh yes and I also thought about running a backup stun, like tether ult (which btw after the added delay works pretty well to in combo with AW), tactician, maybe meteor or DB
  • Jeezye
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    Ohh I just realized the fear trap takes 4 (!!!!) seconds to arm. So nvm all thoughts, that's way too long of a ramp up to play around.. Anyone tried the mages rune instead? It actually provides some decent burst on top and only takes 2 seconds to arm. Thinking like crippe --> rune and hope the don't dodge before it goes off.. On top of that you also get an empowered light attack to combo in now that Im thinking about it
    Edited by Jeezye on February 5, 2020 12:06PM
  • Iskiab
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    You don’t need a back bar stun imo. If you hit someone with concealed for off balance you can medium attack with a flame staff for the stun.

    I don’t have a lot of practice pulling it off because I only played my new magblade a little bit once I hit 50, but that was my thinking when I messed around with the fear trap again. Bow builds are typically squishy and don’t even need a stun in no-CP.

    Fear trap 4 seconds isn’t great but it just means more setup.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 5, 2020 1:19PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Jeezye
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    You don’t need a back bar stun imo. If you hit someone with concealed for off balance you can medium attack with a flame staff for the stun.

    I don’t have a lot of practice pulling it off because I only played my new magblade a little bit once I hit 50, but that was my thinking when I messed around with the fear trap again. Bow builds are typically squishy and don’t even need a stun in no-CP.

    Fear trap 4 seconds isn’t great but it just means more setup.

    Wait off balance only applies from stealth, meaning you are stunning the target in the first place anyways. But ye with tactician you still have good off balance uptime
  • fred4
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    I'm now trying Eternal Hunt and I think it's a winner for my playstyle. Most of you probably know I run a Caluurion magblade specced heavily into both mag and stam sustain as well as speed. I tried Shadow Image for a while, but using dodge rolls and speed always remained part of my playstyle. Thus far Eternal Hunt seems to make those dodge rolls far more effective against jabbing templars, possibly the main class I have trouble with. I had to give up the Steed for the Atro and switched from Hissmir Fisheye Rye to Ghastly, retaining basically the same damage and mag sustain as with Bright Throat's. Stam sustain is less, but goes further. I feel I have more breathing room to cast both RAT and Cloak. For what it's worth:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=210087

    Inner Light is a flex spot with a large number of alternatives: Shadow Image, Merciless Resolve, Efficient Purge, Rapids, Siege Shield, Deep Thoughts (mainly for stam top up), Ele Drain.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
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    I've actually been playing this lol:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

    It's not very good but fun. It's niche so does really well in some games, horrible in others.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Langeston
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I've actually been playing this lol:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

    It's not very good but fun. It's niche so does really well in some games, horrible in others.

    One nice thing about Darloc is that you really only need it on your back bar. If you swap cloak with Manifestation of Terror you can replace the Darloc Inferno with a Willpower one for more damage. Another side effect of this is that with Cloak & RAT on the same bar, escapes are much more fluid.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Langeston wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I've actually been playing this lol:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

    It's not very good but fun. It's niche so does really well in some games, horrible in others.

    One nice thing about Darloc is that you really only need it on your back bar. If you swap cloak with Manifestation of Terror you can replace the Darloc Inferno with a Willpower one for more damage. Another side effect of this is that with Cloak & RAT on the same bar, escapes are much more fluid.

    I think I might give smugglers a spin and drop rat altogether. Marauder’s haste is annoying fitting the shield with concealed or constantly switching bars.

    I tried going darloc front and back bar potatoes, but ended up going back to double barring it for better sustain. I might 1 bar smugglers, I’m not sure yet. Using a pot in the wrong bar would really suck and it would mean 5L-2M.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 8, 2020 3:44AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
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    I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

    It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Langeston
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

    It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

    If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

    I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.
    Edited by Langeston on February 8, 2020 7:27PM
  • fred4
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    Langeston wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

    It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

    If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

    I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.
    My full build is just a few posts up. Caluurion, Eternal Hunt, Troll King, Blackrose resto. Also no shade. UESP indicates I'm using Ghastly Eye Bowl, but I'm actually using Citrus Fillet right now and sustain is fine.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

    It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

    Next patch the passive templar snare from ritual will be gone. That only leaves MagDKs with a passive snare. Stam I’ve found don’t build for snares either and PC-NA is all stam and magsorcs.

    It’s funny even though my new magblade toon is a fresh 50 I got thrown into a high MMR game somehow this morning and it performed well (landgrab). Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well... that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 8, 2020 8:09PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well.
    Agreed.
    that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.
    Good idea!
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well.
    Agreed.
    that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.
    Good idea!

    Yea, my build is pretty far from what you’d call ‘good’, but I trolled this stamdk hard who couldn’t land a dizzy on me, that was fun. Plus being so fast you can circle strafe people who’re trying to kite away so they can’t target you is pretty good too.

    I had one stamwarden who couldn’t land his shalks on me while chasing him too while hitting him with concealed, super dangerous but yolo, who cares if you get die in a BG.

    Magblade still sucks, but it’s also still fun.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 8, 2020 8:29PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Langeston wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

    It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

    If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

    I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.
    My full build is just a few posts up. Caluurion, Eternal Hunt, Troll King, Blackrose resto. Also no shade. UESP indicates I'm using Ghastly Eye Bowl, but I'm actually using Citrus Fillet right now and sustain is fine.
    Perhaps this deserves a longer answer. I play a Caluurion gankblade. This means, by definition, I play a mixture of melee and ranged. The most effective Caluurion burst combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (Caluurion hits) -> Soul Harvest from Cloak. I originally used Zaan and Concealed Weapon as well, which made me a complete melee magblade. However for reasons that go beyond your question, I rearranged my bars so my attacking bar is the other one, the non-Cloak bar, and it's ranged. I find that plays better, but I still jump in for the Caluurion burst combo and I like staying at close range, in the middle of a brawl, if I can get away with it.

    So, how do you get away with it? More to the point, how do you extricate yourself when taking too much damage? There are two obvious ways: Shadow Image and Mist Form. I'm using the third way: Stacking every possible movement buff with snare removal and stamina sustain for dodge rolls. Your playstyle becomes more dynamic and stamblade-like as a result, albeit your damage and shield strength plummets and you lean heavily on Caluurion for burst. My tooltips are trash. That said, Caluurion gives you decent crit, which I find PvPers possibly underrate.

    Up to this point I felt that you needed to stack all speed, e.g. 3x gold Swift, Windrunning (CP), Concealed + Cloak, RAT and Steed mundus. Drop any one of those things and you feel your ability to dodge roll away and into Cloak from Sweeps / Jabs diminish. It's not abstract. I did feel it, whenever I dropped some speed for something else. I also had 1.3K stam sustain. This is perhaps not necessary, if you're careful. You can also use Deep Thoughts to replenish your stamina. However, I find Deep Thoughts no fun. Some people bash me for being a cowardly perma-cloaking nightblade, but I think people find something to bash you for whatever you do. In reality I like to stay in a fight, if I feel I can win or at least stay alive. That's why I find Deep Thoughts a good skill, but a little frustrating. It typically makes you cloak away behind some pillar to get stam back. Having the outright sustain for break frees and dodge rolls means that you can stay longer in a brawl.

    If you want to perma-cloak, Bright-Throat's is ideal. Specifically it is better than other sets, such as Amber Plasm, because of the vagaries of the combat engine as they relate to your idle magicka recovery. If you want to run a drink that includes stamina sustain, such as Hissmir Fisheye Rye, Bright Throat's is ideal too, as it claws back a good chunck of magicka you're otherwise missing. However, if you're playing my specific playstyle, which previously included 1.3K stamina sustain from Hissmir Fisheye Rye, then you have other options. I always wanted to try Eternal Hunt, but never got around to it. Well, it works a treat. I had to drop the Steed mundus to get back the magicka sustain I wanted and I have less than 1K stamina sustain now, because I use Clockwork Citrus Fillet or Ghastly Eye Bowl. However the rune you leave behind when you dodge roll makes all the difference. It stops the pursuing melee player (templar). The problem you normally have is getting off RAT AND Cloak before your melee enemy is already back on top of you after a dodge roll, especially with a bit of lag. With Eternal Hunt I dropped some speed and stam sustain, but feel that my remaining speed and sustain goes further, while my magicka and damage stats are basically unchanged, due to the food swap.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    I should clarify that I have gotten into the habit of casting Healing Ward before my dodge rolls. The full defensive sequence is therefore Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> RAT -> Cloak or Cloak -> RAT. Maybe if I cast RAT instead of Healing Ward, before the dodge roll, I would need less time to get successfully into Cloak. On the other hand, if you need healing, delaying Healing Ward until you are in cloak can be a mistake. It uncloaks you. I've died to curses + sorc execute and to Power of the Light, because I was cloaked and didn't dare cast Healing Ward due to still being in direct line of sight of the enemy zerg.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
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    Yea, I tried smugglers and it’s meh. Idk. Once you go full speed it’s hard to go back to even a little bit slower, speed’s pretty addictive.

    Wish I was an argonian, a clever alchemist and smugglers build with potion cooldown reduction would probably work well, but not having expedition up all the time sucks.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 9, 2020 8:15PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • brandonv516
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    I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.
  • fred4
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    I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.
    Yeah, I play mostly in CP, though my build has historically worked well in no CP, because it's very sustainy.

    I follow Isth3reno1else on YouTube and he argues, probably correctly, that BGs are currently dominated by AOE. Not necessarily outright AOE spamming, but classes who have AOE burst, such as stamdens (Shalks) and DKs (Leap). He, therefore, doesn't rate NBs much, other than perhaps bombers in open world. NBs are typically single target, but they don't have the damage anymore to make that work and get in and out of a fight quickly enough.

    I feared (not the skill) stamblades in previous patches. These days the nightblade that I fear, mag or stam, is much rarer. Especially the magblades can hit me with Merciless all they want, it usually doesn't do enough to secure a kill. Players like myself, the Caluurion ones, aren't much different, but they can be devastating in a duo or small group, coming out of nowhere with their readily accessible burst. I will engage players on my own, but would by lying if I didn't admit to scavenging on targets already engaged by a faction-mate. Playing in a duo with a really good partner is where I feel my build really shines. I've played with stam DKs and magplars who are able to survive without me helping them too much. It's really hard to find a partner with whom you gel, but if you both have that killer instinct, you tend to go after the same targets and magblade is nearly always ready to synchronise burst by using Caluurion and it's cheap ultimate.

    The idea behind the stam (and mag) sustain and dodge rolling is that you can stay in a brawl and more frequently help your partner by attacking the player(s) targeting him. The speed and sustain is also about being in the right place to take opportunities and hit a target when they're low on health. Firing into a brawl from range, on the other hand, means your target can LoS you and you are a target to be picked off by other nightblades yourself. I really only do that when the brawl looks too packed and dangerous. So you mix it up. You can apply pressure from range with my build (but really no more than that), you can maneuver in cloak, waiting for the right moment to pounce, or you can survive for a limited time inside a brawl.

    I'm mostly thinking of CP IC as I write this. I don't go into BGs. I suck at those. My build is good in unorganised fights. An organised (BG) group can be a nightmare due to the prevalence of AOE, but also just one of them using a detect potion can ruin your day.
    Edited by fred4 on February 10, 2020 2:51AM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.
    Yeah, I play mostly in CP, though my build has historically worked well in no CP, because it's very sustainy.

    I follow Isth3reno1else on YouTube and he argues, probably correctly, that BGs are currently dominated by AOE. Not necessarily outright AOE spamming, but classes who have AOE burst, such as stamdens (Shalks) and DKs (Leap). He, therefore, doesn't rate NBs much, other than perhaps bombers in open world. NBs are typically single target, but they don't have the damage anymore to make that work and get in and out of a fight quickly enough.

    I feared (not the skill) stamblades in previous patches. These days the nightblade that I fear, mag or stam, is much rarer. Especially the magblades can hit me with Merciless all they want, it usually doesn't do enough to secure a kill. Players like myself, the Caluurion ones, aren't much different, but they can be devastating in a duo or small group, coming out of nowhere with their readily accessible burst. I will engage players on my own, but would by lying if I didn't admit to scavenging on targets already engaged by a faction-mate. Playing in a duo with a really good partner is where I feel my build really shines. I've played with stam DKs and magplars who are able to survive without me helping them too much. It's really hard to find a partner with whom you gel, but if you both have that killer instinct, you tend to go after the same targets and magblade is nearly always ready to synchronise burst by using Caluurion and it's cheap ultimate.

    The idea behind the stam (and mag) sustain and dodge rolling is that you can stay in a brawl and more frequently help your partner by attacking the player(s) targeting him. The speed and sustain is also about being in the right place to take opportunities and hit a target when they're low on health. Firing into a brawl from range, on the other hand, means your target can LoS you and you are a target to be picked off by other nightblades yourself. I really only do that when the brawl looks too packed and dangerous. So you mix it up. You can apply pressure from range with my build (but really no more than that), you can maneuver in cloak, waiting for the right moment to pounce, or you can survive for a limited time inside a brawl.

    I'm mostly thinking of CP IC as I write this. I don't go into BGs. I suck at those. My build is good in unorganised fights. An organised (BG) group can be a nightmare due to the prevalence of AOE, but also just one of them using a detect potion can ruin your day.

    You could say BGs are dominated by aoes, that’s one way of looking at it. I’d say they’re more dominated by high healing and ST burst.

    Aoes are effective because there are pets everywhere, magsorc is still the most popular class. Plus people use engine guardian too as a way to counter ranged attacks and Templar sweeps since they’ve become more popular.

    BGs are still dominated by stam and magsorcs, so the most popular combo is still dizzy - med - onslaught - executioner. I’ve been seeing more creative builds recently though, with DB and meteor to counter vamps.

    One of the most effective ways of countering a magplar is immediately Ult as soon as they push. Magplars lack self only heals, people hit me hard as soon as I toppling to force me to kite back. If the team is pushing you’re forced to turn away from your team and HTD, because if you keep pushing your healing is likely to go on someone else and you’ll die.

    Thinking about it one of the main advantages of aoes is targeting is a cluster ***. At least with an aoe you’re guaranteed to hit the person, say vs soul harvest hitting a pet.

    BGs are fun too, I’d give them a go. If you’ve never done one before it’ll be all new players in bow/bow specs, or something else silly like that. Keep playing and push through the easy BGs and there are a lot of good players. In higher MMR BGs in a good game there’ll be less than a 200 point spread between all 3 teams.

    Best time for a good game is during the day, quality drops at prime time, and is horrible on weekends. I’m not sure why, I think because during prime time a lot of people play cyrodiil.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 10, 2020 3:47AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
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    You're right about the targeting. I face the same problem in IC. I usually have to be patient until I have a clear shot. It's also why I find Lotus Fan so much more effective than Concealed, even though Concealed stuns. Good luck hitting the right person with it. Lotus Fan means you're in Cloak, a short distance away, ready to jump the right person at the right moment with a guaranteed crit and, therefore, Caluurion proc.

    In BGs my biggest problem is that you're playing against the clock. Patience isn't rewarded nor is staying alive, e.g. having a low death count. The latter is something that really irks me. Perhaps I need to look at the non-Deathmatch modes, but I don't get the feeling that any of those are particularly suited to cloaking nightblades either.

    When Else talks about AOE, I think he indirectly talks about targeting too. It's perhaps most pronounced on magplar. Not only can you deal with pets that way, your attacks also do damage that help with the next target. Whenever I play magplar I find the playstyle stupid easy. To a certain degree you can rush in and rely on your AOE pressure doing so much damage, it protects you. Not saying it isn't fun, nor that surviving isn't ultimately a challenge, but then again BGs don't reward survival.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
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    Another way to put it is that nightblade is quite surgical, whereas other classes fire broadsides. You build a templar (like I do) with Sweeps, Solar Barrage and Crescent Sweep, it basically does that all the time, whereas stamina classes have Dawnbreaker, Spin to Win, Leap, Shalks and magsorc, presumably, runs pets or kill steals.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Another way to put it is that nightblade is quite surgical, whereas other classes fire broadsides. You build a templar (like I do) with Sweeps, Solar Barrage and Crescent Sweep, it basically does that all the time, whereas stamina classes have Dawnbreaker, Spin to Win, Leap, Shalks and magsorc, presumably, runs pets or kill steals.

    You sorta do need to be surgical on a magplar, or at least that’s how I play it. Sit back on my resto bar heavy attacking and healing while throwing out dark flares. When the time’s right light - toppling and go for a kill, mist out if things turn against me.

    Warden’s a lot more that playstyle, but I get what you mean. Especially if you’re used to cyrodiil. The overly defensive teams never win, at some point you need to push to win a death match.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    I was thinking, what do you guys think about using charging maneuvers for more speed?

    I’d need to increase my stam pool, but darloc gives you 650 stam per second so equivalent to 1300 stam regen alone when you’re crouched.

    So darloc, spinners and Zaan using tri stat food. Front bar spinners which would mean 2m-5L and back bar BRP resto:
    Concealed 25%, Major expedition 25%, Minor Expedition 10%, 3x swift (15% with purple jewellery). I want to avoid the steed mundus as a vamp if possible and stick with lover’s. There’ll be the added bonus of being a group buff.

    I like RAT, but putting it on one bar only is annoying because you rarely have the speed buff up or will be constantly switching bars.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • fred4
    fred4
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    I use Rapids on my low level geode farmers in place of RAT. You can probably guess what I'm gonna say: 8 seconds is too short. I don't recall having a "Wow, this is better" moment when slotting that skill. Of course in Cyro it's handy to have anyway. I don't replace RAT with Rapids on my full CP build, though. I replace Inner Light.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
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