MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

fred4

I meant to ask, are you the "Ghost" of Datthaw, because you unsubscribed, but are still hanging around? I'm currently unsubscribed myself, btw.

GhostofDatthaw

fred4 wrote: »

I meant to ask, are you the "Ghost" of Datthaw, because you unsubscribed, but are still hanging around? I'm currently unsubscribed myself, btw.

Lol no, my old forum account was banned. I went on a late night drunken tirade about shadow image being screwed up for so long, old account was just datthaw

Edit plus that was my last straw. I was big into the lowbie cyro scene for a long time from like t1 until Morrowind. Bwb was a different campaign then with alot of good players and guilds. The forum thread would get pretty toxic and was even shut down alot so I got plenty of warnings. The last thread is still going too btw, 514 pages. I won the 1m gold pool we had for first post on 500

stamdammered

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I've had more time than usual to play this week and changed my build a good bit. For now it feels alot more comfortable, only problem is it uses smoked bear haunch which is expensive. I changed it up to spinners inferno and jewels (as always) with 1 infused recovery and 2 swift. I have necro body back out of my bank and I dropped bloodspawn for tk, and I dropped bro resto and went back to vma resto. As far as bars go I changed my back bar a good bit it's, dampen, rapid Regen, shadowy, rat, shade, soul siphon. I completely gave up on brp resto I've found with time if you're dotted up and cast it then cloak, most the time it's a tiny *** heal or is gone. The healing with passive heals, Regen, and swallow soul seem to keep my up fine. Front bar I'm running probably similar to alot, cripple, mercy, fear, swallow, ele drain, soul harvest.

Yeah I haven’t had time to test it yet but I’m basically running the same build you mentioned but have been planning try TK over BS. It seems like a good idea as if I get caught I’m dead anyways, at least with TK if I get away can heal faster and get back in the action. cba to do VMA but it is looking like a better option than BRP with rapid regen

HowlKimchi

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I've had more time than usual to play this week and changed my build a good bit. For now it feels alot more comfortable, only problem is it uses smoked bear haunch which is expensive. I changed it up to spinners inferno and jewels (as always) with 1 infused recovery and 2 swift. I have necro body back out of my bank and I dropped bloodspawn for tk, and I dropped bro resto and went back to vma resto. As far as bars go I changed my back bar a good bit it's, dampen, rapid Regen, shadowy, rat, shade, soul siphon. I completely gave up on brp resto I've found with time if you're dotted up and cast it then cloak, most the time it's a tiny *** heal or is gone. The healing with passive heals, Regen, and swallow soul seem to keep my up fine. Front bar I'm running probably similar to alot, cripple, mercy, fear, swallow, ele drain, soul harvest.

Welcome to the high recoveries squad

jimijac0me

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

HowlKimchi

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

27k when using Orzorga's Bear Haunch (I use this when i'm in a group because i need to be more brawly in group fights; also when farming IC)
21.5k when using Tri recovery drink which is a bit on the low end (I use this when solo-ing because I can afford to use my mobility more to disengage, also much cheaper). I dont feel bad eating a bear haunch while the drink buff is still up.

jimijac0me

HaruKamui wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

27k when using Orzorga's Bear Haunch (I use this when i'm in a group because i need to be more brawly in group fights; also when farming IC)
21.5k when using Tri recovery drink which is a bit on the low end (I use this when solo-ing because I can afford to use my mobility more to disengage, also much cheaper). I dont feel bad eating a bear haunch while the drink buff is still up.

Thanks, my experiences are similar!

zammo

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

The cripple and lotus nerfs are silly though.

Look at it another way, all single target DoTs got the same treatment, every class got hurt by that, so across the board we're about equal in that regard. Lotus Fan however now puts minor vulnerability on every target hit, not just the initial target anymore. I have no problem saying that's a decent buff!

The Shadow Image change however, that is a straight up nerf. I don't think the "adjusted to gap closer / creator standard" reason holds up, as the teleport is not a fixed length. your not always going to travel 22m. Streak for example (unless you aim at scenery) will always give you a set specific distance, and you can plan around that. Depending on how your fight moves around as a Nightblade, shadow image might only move you 1m. You're rarely going to get the full 22m.

Jeezye

Uhm regardig the dampen + ward stack. Did I get it right that you cast dampen BEFORE ward to protect it? I always though shield stacking would work FILO, in that the last casted shield is the one getting consumed first.

I might've done it all wrong lol. Tried a build with absorb missile + ward and wondered how I got no healing

HowlKimchi

Jeezye wrote: »

Uhm regardig the dampen + ward stack. Did I get it right that you cast dampen BEFORE ward to protect it? I always though shield stacking would work FILO, in that the last casted shield is the one getting consumed first.

I might've done it all wrong lol. Tried a build with absorb missile + ward and wondered how I got no healing

yep dampen first to get heal ticks from healing ward.

fred4

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Uhm regardig the dampen + ward stack. Did I get it right that you cast dampen BEFORE ward to protect it? I always though shield stacking would work FILO, in that the last casted shield is the one getting consumed first.

I might've done it all wrong lol. Tried a build with absorb missile + ward and wondered how I got no healing

yep dampen first to get heal ticks from healing ward.

Which means, if you're spamming, you need to go Dampen -> Ward -> Dampen -> Ward and so on. Always start with Dampen and end with Ward. Of course, if you end up having to do that against good players, you're hanging by a thread, because here comes the CC.

One of the hardest things for me, when under high pressure, is juggling when to fit in Fear, RAT or Shade and not get stuck spamming shields. This is why the stam sustain is so valuable, because you can fit in a dodge roll within the same GCD as a shield.

jimijac0me

Hmm I’ve also been interested in how lotus was a nerf lol, not sure anyone used it for the dot and seems like lotus- tether will be stronger. Shade range nerf sucks though, I still find myself outside range often enough as it is

Iskiab

jimijac0me wrote: »

Hmm I’ve also been interested in how lotus was a nerf lol, not sure anyone used it for the dot and seems like lotus- tether will be stronger. Shade range nerf sucks though, I still find myself outside range often enough as it is

I think it’s somewhat a nerf just because other classes got minor vulnerability this patch. If you’re solo it won’t make a difference or be better, if you run in groups the patch will mean there are better sources.

Browsing through the notes I think Onslaught bombing will be better, but in group play magblades will be relatively weaker. Right now magblades are in a good spot in group play... if you spec for it... but post patch I think they’ll be weaker.

fred4

IMO shade range nerf was uncalled for and merely reflects the bean counter approach ZOS have recently adopted.

While shade is a cool skill, I never liked it, because the range already felt limited and because it is a toggle. Toggles are usability nightmares as soon as there is any hint of lag. Press the shade key once and nothing may happen. Press it twice and the lag is suddenly gone and you've already ported back to it and wasted it.

GhostofDatthaw

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

My stats are 35k mag, 30k hp, 12.5k stam with necro, continuous attack, pot buff, and tk I'm at 2.7k mag, 2.3k hp, 1.2k Stam

fred4

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

My exact build is here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

HowlKimchi

fred4 wrote: »

IMO shade range nerf was uncalled for and merely reflects the bean counter approach ZOS have recently adopted.

While shade is a cool skill, I never liked it, because the range already felt limited and because it is a toggle. Toggles are usability nightmares as soon as there is any hint of lag. Press the shade key once and nothing may happen. Press it twice and the lag is suddenly gone and you've already ported back to it and wasted it.

Shade is my favorite magblade skill! Pretty bummed it's getting nerfed but I don't think it'll break the skill.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

My exact build is here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

Have you tried running DW on your front bar? You’ll miss ranged light attacks but see a good bump to your front bar damage skills. MH nirn, OH sharpened.

Looking again, why inner light on your back bar?

HowlKimchi

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=170445

^ This is my build in an easy to consume format. This build started to take shape some 2 years ago, and this is the current iteration.

Offensive pressure is simple: LA-weave. Just semi-charge light attacksy for about 500ms (or half a second) so that every light attack you land, the shock enchant procs. I find that it's the best dps instead of straight up LA weaving and only getting shock enchant procs every 2 seconds. Lighter on the sustain side this way too.

Kill combo happens when you have the spectral bow. So always light attack weave even on the resto bar. The full combo starts with a light attack weave RAT into weapon swap, enabling minor force and the torug's infused spell damage buff glyph on the resto staff. Then it's soul harvest => hysteria => spectral bow (all with uncharged light attack weaves that should equate to two shock enchant procs). Then after that it's LA-weave of swallow soul to execute the target. If they dont die, just do it again since the bow should be up soon.

Defense is tricky-er because positioning is very important, and defensive rotations change depending if stam is low or mag is low. But first, always have the shade up (it's the only dot that helps with maintaining magickasteal of ele drain). Doesn't have to be behind a tree or w/e (but that's ideal), it just has to be a bit away. Then the main goal is to make yspace. Never use cloak first. You'll only be revealed instantly. You want to either RAT or roll away, and then cloak. LOS also matters a lot.

In summary: it's very mobile and bursty, good recoveries, and it has decent sustained pressure with the 6k shock enchant with torug's and infused making it available every 1.5 seconds. Use RAT, dodge roll, shade to make space, then use cloak to exponentially grow the space you make.

Videos just for fun: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493654/magblade-pvp-videos-for-fun

jimijac0me

I have a few builds I’ve put together, rather late here atm but can post when I’m back on my PC for input - bearing in mind my skill bars are where I’m comfortable and I’m usually around 300+ ping lol I’ve been neglecting shade and shadow cloak (I’ve been using dark cloak instead) for a couple of patches because aussie ping has been over 350 for me and the whole game has been a mess but I’ve seen some improvements there so going to try going back to shadow cloak and shade like the old days over the weekend. Shade used to be such a good skill however I’m weary relying on it for next patch because I can only see more templars and stamsorcs coming next patch lol.I’ve always been drawn to nb for speed and siphoning so going to try going back to my roots thanks to you guys - regen is such an underated stat in PvP sometimes and you guys have reminded me of the joy of NB combat pace and control.

Recently I’ve neglected that due to game performance- it’s not very forgiving when abilities do not go off but I’m hoping with our recent ping drops, plus adding swift/steed I might be able to find that fun again.

Recent patches I’ve found damage to have dropped so much that adding anything defensive based leaves me wanting against good players with 100-200 less ping. Swift/steed is something I’ve neglected to try though, I’ve been building more towards resists etc and recently I’ve found running around with same damage but less defenses, I’ve still died as much but gotten far more kills.

I’m going to try regen and speed as my defense and see how it goes for a bit so thank you for opening up some forgetten options ❤️

jimijac0me

I’ll also add, the cast times added to soul harvest and soul tether really hurt us on 250+ ping, so I can see that I need to swing more towards attrition than burst which sucks

GhostofDatthaw

Whoops just realized the hp I was looking at with 30k was with emp bonus, didn't realize dc actually did something.

HowlKimchi

jimijac0me wrote: »

I’ll also add, the cast times added to soul harvest and soul tether really hurt us on 250+ ping, so I can see that I need to swing more towards attrition than burst which sucks

I know how you feel. I play on average of 250 to 300 ping as im located in SEA. What a dream it'd be to play with 200 ping or less!

ScruffyWhiskers

jimijac0me wrote: »

I’ll also add, the cast times added to soul harvest and soul tether really hurt us on 250+ ping, so I can see that I need to swing more towards attrition than burst which sucks

I'm seeing way more soul harvests not fire off than before. This change has run into the cold wall of That's How We Are Doing It Now so I wasn't even going to bother complaining. It is so disruptive to the flow of my gameplay that I'm thinking about writing a strongly worded letter I guess.

As far as lotus being a nerf, my point was that like cripple, it got some nice damage increases over the last few patches and was actually a very nice tool whereas before it was useless except for being a gap closer especially in comparison to ambush when it had a real empower.But then they went and changed entropy and soul harvest and the DOT madness happened and now everything gets crushed.

If you are going to run a melee magnb and you aren't using swift and steed then you really do need a gap closer in my opinion. There are so many opponents who will leave melee range on you without it.

ScruffyWhiskers

zammo wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

The cripple and lotus nerfs are silly though.

Look at it another way, all single target DoTs got the same treatment, every class got hurt by that, so across the board we're about equal in that regard. Lotus Fan however now puts minor vulnerability on every target hit, not just the initial target anymore. I have no problem saying that's a decent buff!

Yeah, its a buff for group play. My point was that it had acquired a decent damage component on the DOT (cripple was really effective as well) and then they went and ruined everything by going way over the top with access to mega DOTs via entropy and soul trap and the nerf hammer got swung and hit everything.

In this age of 25k+hp, huge resistances and mitigation and a declining pool of players who are new or underpowered for CP pvp, my prospects look bleaker by the day. Not everybody is afk either.

jimijac0me

Haha yeah, steed/swift is pretty much my replacement for lotus, although in group play I think I’ll stick with lotus and my harmony spinners jewels, aoe vuln looks nice for that!

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

My exact build is here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

Have you tried running DW on your front bar? You’ll miss ranged light attacks but see a good bump to your front bar damage skills. MH nirn, OH sharpened.

Looking again, why inner light on your back bar?

A good bump in front bar damage? Hahahahaha. You are SO wrong:

(1) Destro gives +8% single target damage. I believe that includes the procs.
(2) Destro does elemental-based light attacks that scale with magicka and spell damage, spell crit and spell pen.
(3) Full Sharpened beats Nirn, more so, since my build is about the procs not my skill damage.

So unless you're telling me there is something about how "wrong-(stamina)-weapon" light attacks now scale, that I've missed, destro light attacks and destro staff synergy with the procs far outweighs any possible skill damage gains from DW in my build.

Inner Light is my flex-spot. I like it, because the slight magicka gain improves my shields and the crit improves my heals, e.g. Swallow Soul and Healing Ward. No room for it on the front bar and also the procs don't crit anyway. Between Inner Light and Willpower I have almost 4K more magicka on the back bar. However other skills in that spot include Retreating Maneuvers, Siege Shield and Deep Thoughts in no CP.

I like Swallow Soul for IC, but for Cyro you could arguably run Cripple + Entropy or Soul Trap on the back bar this patch. What I don't like about Entropy is that blue health projectile every 2 seconds, as it can give away your cloaked position. Again it comes down the procs being the "star-feature" of the build. I don't particularly care for Major Sorcery. Indeed, I have always found Immovability potions far more effective when the other choice was a Sorcery or Brutality potion, so I don't get it from potions either.

ScruffyWhiskers

fred4 wrote: »

[

(1) Destro gives +8% single target damage. I believe that includes the procs.

Yep, for several years I ran around with dual swords because I loved the look. I started out dual daggers before they did the whole magicka/stamina split. But I picked up a stick just like they wanted I guess. I hate the way it looks and it makes it hard to tell whether I'm on my front bar or back bar sometimes when lag gets in the way. But you are gimping yourself if you don't join the order of the stick. Just getting one good light attack in can be the difference in finishing somebody off.

Maybe this summer the expansion will have a one hand and tome or orb weapon line that focuses on melee magicka? One can only hope.

HowlKimchi

The only time DW was better than Destro staves in one way was when destro staves only counted as 1 armor piece.

When they made destro count as two, it became better than DW in every single aspect.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

jimijac0me wrote: »

Out of curiousity what health are you guys running on these builds?

My exact build is here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6312003/#Comment_6312003

Have you tried running DW on your front bar? You’ll miss ranged light attacks but see a good bump to your front bar damage skills. MH nirn, OH sharpened.

Looking again, why inner light on your back bar?

A good bump in front bar damage? Hahahahaha. You are SO wrong:

(1) Destro gives +8% single target damage. I believe that includes the procs.
(2) Destro does elemental-based light attacks that scale with magicka and spell damage, spell crit and spell pen.
(3) Full Sharpened beats Nirn, more so, since my build is about the procs not my skill damage.

So unless you're telling me there is something about how "wrong-(stamina)-weapon" light attacks now scale, that I've missed, destro light attacks and destro staff synergy with the procs far outweighs any possible skill damage gains from DW in my build.

Inner Light is my flex-spot. I like it, because the slight magicka gain improves my shields and the crit improves my heals, e.g. Swallow Soul and Healing Ward. No room for it on the front bar and also the procs don't crit anyway. Between Inner Light and Willpower I have almost 4K more magicka on the back bar. However other skills in that spot include Retreating Maneuvers, Siege Shield and Deep Thoughts in no CP.

I like Swallow Soul for IC, but for Cyro you could arguably run Cripple + Entropy or Soul Trap on the back bar this patch. What I don't like about Entropy is that blue health projectile every 2 seconds, as it can give away your cloaked position. Again it comes down the procs being the "star-feature" of the build. I don't particularly care for Major Sorcery. Indeed, I have always found Immovability potions far more effective when the other choice was a Sorcery or Brutality potion, so I don't get it from potions either.

Switching from a flame staff to DW swords is about a 10% tooltip increase....