PTR 5.1.4- Why change Power Surge?

Matthew_Galvanus

It seems like every patch you are determined to erase any kind of viability that Sorcerers have. @ZOS_GinaBruno is it possible for you to have someone from the team who made the change to Power Surge please explain why they made the decision to gut this skill? Power Surge was never intended on being a skill for healers, it was always intended to be a self heal that not only buffs our damage, but mitigates some of the damage we take in dungeons so healers aren't scrambling to keep us alive when we take a hit. Not only this, but it completely destroys any semblance of viability for solo instance content like the Maelstrom Arena.

Power Surge was absolutely vital in MA, especially when running it on veteran difficulty. there is a LOT of damage to soak and between the nerfs to our shields and now this bizarre change to Power Surge, it's becoming more and more difficult and frustrating for Sorcerers to be able to function on their own. I really need someone on the team to explain this logic of taking a solo heal and completely reworking its effect so that it no longer can be used as a solo heal.

Vermethys

For PvE, you can always switch to Critical Surge and use Spell Power potions -- that's what I did when I used to farm vMA on a MagSorc last year. Though this does seem terrible for PvP Magsorcs because the healing is now far less reliable, and they'll have to switch to Critical Surge and run either Spell Power potions instead of Tri-Stat or slot Entropy (which is an ability I despise using).

Matthew_Galvanus

Vermethys wrote: »

For PvE, you can always switch to Critical Surge and use Spell Power potions -- that's what I did when I used to farm vMA on a MagSorc last year. Though this does seem terrible for PvP Magsorcs because the healing is now far less reliable, and they'll have to switch to Critical Surge and run either Spell Power potions instead of Tri-Stat or slot Entropy (which is an ability I despise using).

it is a terrible change all around. Why purposefully destroy a skill intended for solo healing by making it a group heal, which makes zero sense.

Elwendryll

Crit surge still gives solo healing. You only lose on the major sorcery, but you can still get it with potions, or entropy, which is a potent DoT now.
To me, the only thing magsorcs lost is access to major sorcery, not the solo heal. Is it better or worse, I don't know.

GoodFella146

Makes sense that sorcerers don't have class access to major sorcery.

Tyrion87

Elwendryll wrote: »

Crit surge still gives solo healing. You only lose on the major sorcery, but you can still get it with potions, or entropy, which is a potent DoT now.
To me, the only thing magsorcs lost is access to major sorcery, not the solo heal. Is it better or worse, I don't know.

But it is so unintuitive and feels so wrong if magsorcs, to get the selfheal, would need to slot a stam-oriented morph of surge. It feels like crit surge will be a sorc heal of last resort, yet very desperate one resulting from lack of other choices. Surge changes, in particular no addition of major sorcery to crit morph, are half-baked at their current state, not thought through and literally scream for further adjustments to crit surge.

Elwendryll

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Makes sense that sorcerers don't have class access to major sorcery.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

But it is so unintuitive and feels so wrong if magsorcs, to get the selfheal, would need to slot a stam-oriented morph of surge. It feels like crit surge will be a sorc heal of last resort, yet very desperate one resulting from lack of other choices. Surge changes, in particular no addition of major sorcery to crit morph, are half-baked at their current state, not thought through and literally scream for further adjustments to crit surge.

Oh, I'm not saying this isn't bad. Just that if people want to complain about something, it's about not having major sorcery and ST heal on the same morph. The heal is still there. Sorcery too. Just not on the same morph.

zaria

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Makes sense that sorcerers don't have class access to major sorcery.

Yes that is very obvious.

Nemesis7884

why not make crit surge give both majors then....just stupid as 90% of recent changey

if you want to structure the old classes aligned to the new ones with tanking, dps, healing line fine but then you rework one class all at once and not over time...

Amorpho

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

why not make crit surge give both majors then....just stupid as 90% of recent changey

That's exactly what I thought, besides nobody ever complained about PS needing a rework. But what makes me fuming even more is how they introduced this change - on last patch before launch, without any (clear) previous announcement and without chance of even discussing the change. It's absolutely ridiculous. Power Surge allowed me to play solo (VMA and/or VDSA with 3 DPS) without running powerpots (super cheap) but tristats instead (crown pots if I didn't want to craft them). Now I will need to use spell power pots and run a stam morph of the skill. I really wonder who comes up with such brainless ideas!

Matthew_Galvanus

Elwendryll wrote: »

Crit surge still gives solo healing. You only lose on the major sorcery, but you can still get it with potions, or entropy, which is a potent DoT now.
To me, the only thing magsorcs lost is access to major sorcery, not the solo heal. Isit better or worse, I don't know.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Crit surge still gives solo healing. You only lose on the major sorcery, but you can still get it with potions, or entropy, which is a potent DoT now.
To me, the only thing magsorcs lost is access to major sorcery, not the solo heal. Is it better or worse, I don't know.

But it is so unintuitive and feels so wrong if magsorcs, to get the selfheal, would need to slot a stam-oriented morph of surge. It feels like crit surge will be a sorc heal of last resort, yet very desperate one resulting from lack of other choices. Surge changes, in particular no addition of major sorcery to crit morph, are half-baked at their current state, not thought through and literally scream for further adjustments to crit surge.

this is it exactly. we are forced to take the morph intended for stamina builds in order to keep the solo heal. either they rework crit surge to give both sorcery and brutality, or revert power surge so it goes back to being the magicka equivalent, taking away the magicka surge is just shooting magicka dd sorcs in the leg by force implementing an unnecessary change that was not needed.

CGPsaint

Just another example of Zenimax logic. There are so many issues with the game right now, I can't even begin to fathom why this is even on the radar for a very unnecessary change.

Jayman1000

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Makes sense that sorcerers don't have class access to major sorcery.

lmfao. it's like the devs dont know or understand their own game.

CGPsaint

Jayman1000 wrote: »

lmfao. it's like the devs dont know or understand their own game.

I've said for a long time that I don't believe that any of the devs actually play the game.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

ZOS destroyed Power Surge. Who is going to slot it now? Sure won't keep you alive in fierce combat. These changes get more ridiculous every time. Whomever came up with this brilliant idea should be fired immediately.

Grandma

it's like you people are trying to be obtuse.

1) crit surge was buffed

2) power surge was made a nice aoe hot for sorc healers

3) major sorcery is gained from spell power pots you're already using on live

4) "BuT mAh CaSuAl CoNtEnT" oh you mean slotting and using Entropy, one of the best mag skills in the game next patch that provides damage, sustain, and major sorcery?

5) "2 skill slots for what used to be 1?!?!?!" no. Degeneration is replacing an AoE skill or your spammable. you're not losing anything.

6) ????????

7) magsorcs are fine. i mean, relatively speaking. pretty much all mag was gutted for hard content but we're not really talking about that, we're talking about sorcs specifically.

Narvuntien

Because sorc healers only slotted the one sorc skill, the twilight

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

power surge definitely should not have been the source of the heal over time, it really ought to have been on Daedric Tomb. no one i know of uses that morph, and it would have been great for sorc healers to bring their group buff that way.

Matthew_Galvanus

Grandma wrote: »

it's like you people are trying to be obtuse.

1) crit surge was buffed

2) power surge was made a nice aoe hot for sorc healers

3) major sorcery is gained from spell power pots you're already using on live

4) "BuT mAh CaSuAl CoNtEnT" oh you mean slotting and using Entropy, one of the best mag skills in the game next patch that provides damage, sustain, and major sorcery?

5) "2 skill slots for what used to be 1?!?!?!" no. Degeneration is replacing an AoE skill or your spammable. you're not losing anything.

6) ????????

7) magsorcs are fine. i mean, relatively speaking. pretty much all mag was gutted for hard content but we're not really talking about that, we're talking about sorcs specifically.

spoken like someone who doesn't play Sorc.

1. that paltry buff doesn't make up for the fact that we no longer have an ability that grants major sorcery+ a heal triggered by crits in one skill, which is a big middle finger to all Mag sorcs because critical surge only provides major brutality, which we don't benefit from.

2. they could have altered one of the abilities from the healing skill line, messing with an intended solo heal was not necessary in the slightest.

3. A lot of players opt for Tri-stat restore pots because sorcs tend to burn through their stamina bar when blocking or dodging, this is especially prevalent in PvP, so we have to choose between being able to block or dodge, or having major sorcery which won't save you if you get nuked.

4. "one of the best mag skills in the game next patch that provides damage, sustain, and major sorcery?" lol are you for real? they didn't even give us any actual numbers on what the sustain will be like, you cannot say "it's the best mag skill in game." when you know absolutely nothing other than it provides sustain. if it isn't as good as power surge's heal was overall, then no, it's still useless.

5. except you can't have both degeneration and structured entropy because THEY ARE THE SAME SKILL. so you're still losing out and are forced to waste a slot.

6. you are literally the poster child of someone who doesn't play Sorc and talks out of their ass when the class gets nerfed.

7. Magsorcs are not fine, they are on a slippery slope, and reaching a point where it'd be considered troll to take it into endgame content because they bring nothing. Please take a little more time to do some research before you try and tell me my class isn't being smothered with bad class balancing decisions.

CambionDaemon

I do not run spell pots, because I prefer tri-pots.

If this is for the 'many' Sorcerer healers out there then there were a lot better skills in different line that would have been better to use.

You cannot start changing skills that people have been using for years without people getting angry, especially when there was nothing wrong with the skill at all.

The original four classes need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up in one go, not this idiotic piecemeal one skill at a time.

mzprx

i am so glad my Sorc is a Dunmer. after reading those patch notes i simply made him a stamSorc. i mean, why would anyone think that the change is something that magSorcs really needed is beyond me. it only gutted magSorcs, since stamSorcs can still use the skill with no change. so Major Brutality for stamina but no Major Sorcery for magicka? what *** mind did that come from?

ArchMikem

Elwendryll wrote: »

Crit surge still gives solo healing. You only lose on the major sorcery, but you can still get it with potions, or entropy, which is a potent DoT now.
To me, the only thing magsorcs lost is access to major sorcery, not the solo heal. Is it better or worse, I don't know.

My Sorc's gonna have to chug spell power pots now?

zaria

mzprx wrote: »

i am so glad my Sorc is a Dunmer. after reading those patch notes i simply made him a stamSorc. i mean, why would anyone think that the change is something that magSorcs really needed is beyond me. it only gutted magSorcs, since stamSorcs can still use the skill with no change. so Major Brutality for stamina but no Major Sorcery for magicka? what *** mind did that come from?

My main was an Khajiit magsorc up until Murkmire, then she put on some VO and hurdling, used an 150% scroll and stating handing in crafting writs.

And please edit your post my main is an stamsorc and don't want to loose major brutality

However Dunmer and Khajiit has the racial passive "major nerf resistance"
Hide tails so devs don't give it to Breton's in next patch.
Argonians, hide your tails or the Bosmer take them to.

Lylith

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Makes sense that sorcerers don't have class access to major sorcery.

doesn't it, though?

zo$ logic, as they say.

always be sure to fix that which was never broken.

Matthew_Galvanus

zaria wrote: »

mzprx wrote: »

i am so glad my Sorc is a Dunmer. after reading those patch notes i simply made him a stamSorc. i mean, why would anyone think that the change is something that magSorcs really needed is beyond me. it only gutted magSorcs, since stamSorcs can still use the skill with no change. so Major Brutality for stamina but no Major Sorcery for magicka? what *** mind did that come from?

My main was an Khajiit magsorc up until Murkmire, then she put on some VO and hurdling, used an 150% scroll and stating handing in crafting writs.

And please edit your post my main is an stamsorc and don't want to loose major brutality

However Dunmer and Khajiit has the racial passive "major nerf resistance"
Hide tails so devs don't give it to Breton's in next patch.
Argonians, hide your tails or the Bosmer take them to.

no of course not. i would never suggest they take away Major brutality. critical surge was and should remain as the stamina version of surge, or change it so that it gives major sorcery as well, so both sides benefit like they did with Power Surge.

Priyasekarssk

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

It seems like every patch you are determined to erase any kind of viability that Sorcerers have. @ZOS_GinaBruno is it possible for you to have someone from the team who made the change to Power Surge please explain why they made the decision to gut this skill? Power Surge was never intended on being a skill for healers, it was always intended to be a self heal that not only buffs our damage, but mitigates some of the damage we take in dungeons so healers aren't scrambling to keep us alive when we take a hit. Not only this, but it completely destroys any semblance of viability for solo instance content like the Maelstrom Arena.

Power Surge was absolutely vital in MA, especially when running it on veteran difficulty. there is a LOT of damage to soak and between the nerfs to our shields and now this bizarre change to Power Surge, it's becoming more and more difficult and frustrating for Sorcerers to be able to function on their own. I really need someone on the team to explain this logic of taking a solo heal and completely reworking its effect so that it no longer can be used as a solo heal.

ZOs pathetic noob garbage streamers, need to nerf sorc to win game in PVP. THats why mage sorc is always nerfed class in the game. Because noob had hard time to kill. LEt me tell you, These noobs never play mage sorc in PVP. They only play staam with super op ridiculous no skill build.

Priyasekarssk

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

ZOS destroyed Power Surge. Who is going to slot it now? Sure won't keep you alive in fierce combat. These changes get more ridiculous every time. Whomever came up with this brilliant idea should be fired immediately.

Someone shareholders should impeach these cancers in court. They simply making the game total garbage for some garbage streamers. FYI many ZOs employees are streamers. They are the ones with no skills need these.

AcadianPaladin

It is not like pet sorcs have a lot of flexibility in what they slot. Perhaps inner light or aegis. Twilight. Volatile. There are six slots gone. Anything that goes in the remaining 4 slots has to really pack a punch or do at least double/triple duty. Power Surge did exactly that - Maj Sorcery and self healing.

Nerf my twilight. Nerf my Power Surge. Nerf my Lightning Flood. Nerf my Blockade. I loved the AoE play style of this character and she did it pretty well.

If all these nerfs go live, I can't think of a reason not to retire my magsorc since what she would have to 'adjust and adapt' to looks, walks and quacks a lot like my magblade. Why not just play my magblade.

If I had a magsorc healer, the Power Surge would be of no interest since Resto Staves (mutagen/springs nerfs) no longer earn a weapon slot in my book. Even my Templar healer will be resigning her healer creds and joining the hordes of dds if the nerfs all go live.

geonsocal

for some reason this just reminded me about the overload bar removal - haven't seen anyone use that skill in forever...

it's kind of weird - like they had one team who developed these class skills, and, then a whole other team showed up to change everything...

Aurie

geonsocal wrote: »

for some reason this just reminded me about the overload bar removal - haven't seen anyone use that skill in forever...

it's kind of weird - like they had one team who developed these class skills, and, then a whole other team showed up to change everything...

Isn't that exactly what's happened?

Matthew_Galvanus

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

It is not like pet sorcs have a lot of flexibility in what they slot. Perhaps inner light or aegis. Twilight. Volatile. There are six slots gone. Anything that goes in the remaining 4 slots has to really pack a punch or do at least double/triple duty. Power Surge did exactly that - Maj Sorcery and self healing.

Nerf my twilight. Nerf my Power Surge. Nerf my Lightning Flood. Nerf my Blockade. I loved the AoE play style of this character and she did it pretty well.

If all these nerfs go live, I can't think of a reason not to retire my magsorc since what she would have to 'adjust and adapt' to looks, walks and quacks a lot like my magblade. Why not just play my magblade.

If I had a magsorc healer, the Power Surge would be of no interest since Resto Staves (mutagen/springs nerfs) no longer earn a weapon slot in my book. Even my Templar healer will be resigning her healer creds and joining the hordes of dds if the nerfs all go live.

its ironic they are trying to push more into making healing better, but they are making several builds less viable at the same time