PTR 5.1.4- Why change Power Surge?

aLi3nZ

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

It makes perfect sense though. Both morphs basically did exactly the same thing only that power surge gave major sorcery. Now there is a clear distinction.

Crit surge has always been the better heal if you wanted healing.

If you need major sorcery and aren't using spell power pots you re in luck since entropy just got buffed massively. Degeneration also gives some healing while structured entropy gives bigger shields.

I am glad if I can finally ditch the pet again and am looking forward to adjusting this patch.

be prepared to build two entirely seperate setups because you cant run both solo and group content with one build.

What is the problem with that? Doesn't change anything to how it has been for ages for me. Different build for vMA, for trial trash and each boss and for pvp. It's totally normal to havy many buildoptions in endgame. I'd be bored out of my mind if I was running the exact same stuff everywhere.

considering how expensive it is to have to build and gold out entirely new sets +the cost of transmuting gear... it means weeks upon weeks of grinding, and just as i reach a point where i have the viable sets, they'll make some new disastrous change and require me to build it from scratch again.

+the cost of transmuting gear... ? Is there a way to pay gold for those trans mutate stones. I have been trying to farm BG to get them but can't stand more then a few rounds of BG. Kinda gets boring. Would be happy to pay lots of gold for it.

Matthew_Galvanus

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

It makes perfect sense though. Both morphs basically did exactly the same thing only that power surge gave major sorcery. Now there is a clear distinction.

Crit surge has always been the better heal if you wanted healing.

If you need major sorcery and aren't using spell power pots you re in luck since entropy just got buffed massively. Degeneration also gives some healing while structured entropy gives bigger shields.

I am glad if I can finally ditch the pet again and am looking forward to adjusting this patch.

be prepared to build two entirely seperate setups because you cant run both solo and group content with one build.

What is the problem with that? Doesn't change anything to how it has been for ages for me. Different build for vMA, for trial trash and each boss and for pvp. It's totally normal to havy many buildoptions in endgame. I'd be bored out of my mind if I was running the exact same stuff everywhere.

considering how expensive it is to have to build and gold out entirely new sets +the cost of transmuting gear... it means weeks upon weeks of grinding, and just as i reach a point where i have the viable sets, they'll make some new disastrous change and require me to build it from scratch again.

+the cost of transmuting gear... ? Is there a way to pay gold for those trans mutate stones. I have been trying to farm BG to get them but can't stand more then a few rounds of BG. Kinda gets boring. Would be happy to pay lots of gold for it.

no unfortunately.

there is no way to buy transmute crystals with gold. the cost of transmutation is hours of grinding over a long period of time (usually a month at least) and that is for just one transmute.

if you are having to build and entirely new setup and have absolute shite luck with weapons/gear having the trait you need (Veteran Sunspire and Cloudrest im looking at you) then that quickly becomes several months of work and in that time there is no guarantee that the brilliant thoughtless minds of Zos balancing team won't nerf the crap out of the class again and force yet another meta shift which requires new gear (thereby restarting the process once more)

Shantu

I'm sure the devs have their reasoning for all this. I suppose they wanted to up the ante for Sorc healers after all the changes they threw at healers in general. But you have to admit, their indifference to how the community actually plays the game is pretty disheartening. Enthusiasm for changes ZOS rains down on the game is rarely high, but with the current abysmal level, they should be ashamed.

Matthew_Galvanus

Shantu wrote: »

I'm sure the devs have their reasoning for all this. I suppose they wanted to up the ante for Sorc healers after all the changes they threw at healers in general. But you have to admit, their indifference to how the community actually plays the game is pretty disheartening. Enthusiasm for changes ZOS rains down on the game is rarely high, but with the current abysmal level, they should be ashamed.

honestly this wouldn't be such an issue if they had added Major sorcery to Critical surge, so that the skill at least retained that

SFDB

Taking away Major Sorcery after nerfing Sorcerers is like a cop following up kicking you in the face with a ticket for getting his boots dirty.

Aurie

SFDB wrote: »

Taking away Major Sorcery after nerfing Sorcerers is like a cop following up kicking you in the face with a ticket for getting his boots dirty.

I don't agree with the analogy, but get your meaning.

D0PAMINE

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I'm sure the devs have their reasoning for all this. I suppose they wanted to up the ante for Sorc healers after all the changes they threw at healers in general. But you have to admit, their indifference to how the community actually plays the game is pretty disheartening. Enthusiasm for changes ZOS rains down on the game is rarely high, but with the current abysmal level, they should be ashamed.

honestly this wouldn't be such an issue if they had added Major sorcery to Critical surge, so that the skill at least retained that

Would be nice

Frostystuff

Completed VMA first time post changes with entropy and crit surge (was stuck on last boss) didn't make that big a differnce. In fact dotting up the three crystals with entropy and reach while i focused on stayin alive and up top made life easier. Each run has gotten smoother since. Some things weaker somethings harder, overall not that different.

Except my skill bar is starting to look more generic.

As an asside with the improvement in touch and its morphs would the masters staff be worth loosing a monster helm i know the asylum staff gets used by force pulse fans.

Matthew_Galvanus

SFDB wrote: »

Taking away Major Sorcery after nerfing Sorcerers is like a cop following up kicking you in the face with a ticket for getting his boots dirty.

eh, it's more like if a teacher took away your textbook and gave you an inferior copy with missing content, and then wondered why your grades were slipping.

Matthew_Galvanus

Frostystuff wrote: »

Completed VMA first time post changes with entropy and crit surge (was stuck on last boss) didn't make that big a differnce. In fact dotting up the three crystals with entropy and reach while i focused on stayin alive and up top made life easier. Each run has gotten smoother since. Some things weaker somethings harder, overall not that different.

Except my skill bar is starting to look more generic.

As an asside with the improvement in touch and its morphs would the masters staff be worth loosing a monster helm i know the asylum staff gets used by force pulse fans.

it doesn't really change the fact that overall dps is worse than before. Plus it's still bad that they took away the only source of major sorcery that magsorcs have

Taleof2Cities

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Taking away Major Sorcery after nerfing Sorcerers is like a cop following up kicking you in the face with a ticket for getting his boots dirty.

eh, it's more like if a teacher took away your textbook and gave you an inferior copy with missing content, and then wondered why your grades were slipping.

Aren’t there other sources of Major Sorcery?

Or, was Surge the only source in the game?

Matthew_Galvanus

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

SFDB wrote: »

Taking away Major Sorcery after nerfing Sorcerers is like a cop following up kicking you in the face with a ticket for getting his boots dirty.

eh, it's more like if a teacher took away your textbook and gave you an inferior copy with missing content, and then wondered why your grades were slipping.

Aren’t there other sources of Major Sorcery?

Or, was Surge the only source in the game?

Power surge gave sorcerers both major sorcery and the ability to self heal. with the changes they made, sorcerers now have to play with critical surge, which offers a slightly stronger heal, but it doesn't provide major sorcery, and because of that they are now forced to slot either entropy (and we need to recast it every 10 seconds to maintain its damage), or take a sorcery potion and forgo taking tri-restore pots and lose out on health and stamina.

in either event the magsorc is weaker as a result because by slotting entropy you lose out on a slot for a skill that could offer more consistent damage, or you become squishier as you lose the chunk of health tri-restore pots give you, plus you lose the extra blocks and dodge roll.

SFDB

We're not saying there aren't workarounds, or that for some playstyles they are not better, but that A) there was no reason we should need to have a workaround, the ability was not overperforming, B ) the workaround is inferior for some builds, and C) the workaround deteriorates class identity when the class was already given a big whack with the nerf bat.

SirDopey

lol the change is because a small group of forum QQers were having a cry that they couldn't get a group invite on their sorc healers.......

MasterSpatula

SFDB wrote: »

We're not saying there aren't workarounds, or that for some playstyles they are not better, but that A) there was no reason we should need to have a workaround, the ability was not overperforming, B ) the workaround is inferior for some builds, and C) the workaround deteriorates class identity when the class was already given a big whack with the nerf bat.

Good summation.

Matthew_Galvanus

SFDB wrote: »

We're not saying there aren't workarounds, or that for some playstyles they are not better, but that A) there was no reason we should need to have a workaround, the ability was not overperforming, B ) the workaround is inferior for some builds, and C) the workaround deteriorates class identity when the class was already given a big whack with the nerf bat.

i agree completely. this is a great summary

soptik

I died like 20-times today and then I started to search what is different. I noticed I receive 0 healing with my mag sorc and after a while I was quite surprised what happened to the Power Surge skill.
I have very limited time to play ESO and I can not afford to start playing another char. My Mag Sorc was great for my solo play style, but on the other hand even though it is strong I did not feel it is OP in any way. I dont do PvP, dungeons, raids, ect. because of the lack of my playing time :-(

It looks like this is the end of ESO+subscription for me.

Zimbugga

People, who says "It's healer skill now, deal with it". You are wrong. I'm healer main and I won't use skill to my sorcerer healer.

If sorcerer healers need more healing skills, why they changed Surge? Why not Rune Prison or Daedric Mines? If you ask me, sorcerer healers need more aoe healing skills and Power Surge is not answer. It's awful. Who ever stands close to healer? That's how Power Surge works now.

Olupajmibanan

Zimbugga wrote: »

People, who says "It's healer skill now, deal with it". You are wrong. I'm healer main and I won't use skill to my sorcerer healer.

If sorcerer healers need more healing skills, why they changed Surge? Why not Rune Prison or Daedric Mines? If you ask me, sorcerer healers need more aoe healing skills and Power Surge is not answer. It's awful. Who ever stands close to healer? That's how Power Surge works now.

Making Power Surge a healer-only morph, umm okay, why not? But why on Earth they did not add Major Sorcery to Surge and Critical Surge morph?

They could just add Major Sorcery to base skill and both morphs. Old functionality would be fully retained on Critical Surge morph and ZoS could do whatever they want with Power Surge morph, maybe even getting it to state where it is actualy useful healer skill.
But NO!! Let's take away old functionality and replace it with new one that is hardly of any practical use.

Major_Lag

Zimbugga wrote: »

Who ever stands close to healer? That's how Power Surge works now.

In organized raids, the players stack on the boss and the healer stacks on the players, for Combat Prayer.
Of course in PUGs, anything goes.

Luckylancer

Can someone explain me why there HAS TO be 2 morps for every skill? With 3 morphs, everyone will be happy.

Matthew_Galvanus

Luckylancer wrote: »

Can someone explain me why there HAS TO be 2 morps for every skill? With 3 morphs, everyone will be happy.

what would be the point? 2 is a perfectly acceptable number of morphs per skill

OG_Kaveman

Luckylancer wrote: »

Can someone explain me why there HAS TO be 2 morps for every skill? With 3 morphs, everyone will be happy.

Why stop at 3? Why not 4? Why not 5? The answer is that is just the way the game is.

mzprx

the thing with the Power Surge is that yes, organised top raid groups didn't use it to gain the Major Sorcery, but there are far more casual players that used it to get the buff AND healing. myself included. it used to be an awesome skill that made my magSorc great. healer sucks? not a problem. vMA? nae bother. Power Surge FTW. nowadays i need to apply workarounds that are either lackluster (the healing from Structured Entropy is laughable), too expensive for a casual player (potions, i mean, just look at the prices of Cornflower now and tell me how exactly are the "filthy" casuals supposed to afford it if they're not running around Tamriel harvesting plants 24/7) or take away one additional skill slots (Crit. Surge AND Entropy)..

the change only made magSorcs a lot harder to play for the vast majority of casual players. nobody ever complained about the skill being overpowered, or overperforming. and the worst thing is that they put it on PTS like 2 days before the patch went live (or so), so most players never actually noticed the change and had any chance to test it and/or give the devs any sort of feedback..

gel214thb14_ESO

Just came back to playing my Mag Sorcerer and was dying all over the place. I noticed my heals weren't coming through and wondered why. Lo and behold, this thread. I cannot believe they killed this build.

This was my goto PVE character that I just ran around with doing stories and completing my PVE content. This is why I have moved well away from playing MMORPGs, I think developers do this on purpose and there is some algorithm somewhere that points out what classes and power sets to nerf or neuter to force players to play longer to develop another spec.

I can't really think of another reason. I'm very disappointed by this. Are we expected to respec to Stamina Sorcerers now for PVE and get all new gear?

OG_Kaveman

gel214thb14_ESO wrote: »

Just came back to playing my Mag Sorcerer and was dying all over the place. I noticed my heals weren't coming through and wondered why. Lo and behold, this thread. I cannot believe they killed this build.

This was my goto PVE character that I just ran around with doing stories and completing my PVE content. This is why I have moved well away from playing MMORPGs, I think developers do this on purpose and there is some algorithm somewhere that points out what classes and power sets to nerf or neuter to force players to play longer to develop another spec.

I can't really think of another reason. I'm very disappointed by this. Are we expected to respec to Stamina Sorcerers now for PVE and get all new gear?

swap morphs, bro-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6403871#Comment_6403871

Surge: This ability and its morphs now grant Major Brutality and Sorcery at base.

Taleof2Cities

That ship has sailed, @gel214thb14_ESO .

Your choices are to move on (like most players have) and find an alternative setup for self-heals.

Or, you can keep what you have (which still will clear the vast majority of content) ... and find more forums threads to resurrect from August-September 2019.

OG_Kaveman

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

That ship has sailed, @gel214thb14_ESO .

Your choices are to move on (like most players have) and find an alternative setup for self-heals.

Or, you can keep what you have (which still will clear the vast majority of content) ... and find more forums threads to resurrect from August-September 2019.

what are you talking about? crit surge has major sorcery now and gives more heals then power surge ever did.

Sergykid

outdated topics should really have an "expired" tag given by the community, so when someone posts he would get a notice that he's about to post in an outdated topic and they need to confirm.

Varana

gel214thb14_ESO wrote: »

Just came back to playing my Mag Sorcerer and was dying all over the place. I noticed my heals weren't coming through and wondered why. Lo and behold, this thread. I cannot believe they killed this build.

This was my goto PVE character that I just ran around with doing stories and completing my PVE content. This is why I have moved well away from playing MMORPGs, I think developers do this on purpose and there is some algorithm somewhere that points out what classes and power sets to nerf or neuter to force players to play longer to develop another spec.

I can't really think of another reason. I'm very disappointed by this. Are we expected to respec to Stamina Sorcerers now for PVE and get all new gear?

Luckily, ZOS has made the totally groundbreaking innovation of including tool tips in the game. With descriptions! Where you can read what skills do!

With this cool feature no one has ever heard of before, players don't have to rely on completely outdated forum threads to get their information, and are less likely to be misinformed. Thus freeing up valuable resources so you can panic about actual catastrophes, like climate change.

Disclaimer: Being able and willing to read is a prerequisite.