Does ZOS's combat team understand in game mechanics better than the best pve'rs and pvp'ers

Kagukan

Yes they do (they are the combat team after all)

Considering they wrote the code I would say they understand it better than most players. Performing the mechanics in game is a different story however.

preevious

Zevrro wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Third option : it doesn't matter.

Seems like a rant disguised as a poll ..

How is the fact that the team that are balancing the game don't understand game mechanics something that doesn't matter?

Well, I'll answer when you'll tell me where the holy hell you got the idea that the balance team do not understand the mechanincs.

Is it because they do not obey right away when a handfull of random people complain about any given mechanic on the forum? Isn't that a bit passive agressive? Laughable? Both?

Seriously, they do as good a job in this game than the other games's balance team.
They want to bring the game in a certain direction, they decide on any aspect of the game to modify to go there, as is their prerogative and their business.
It's really that simple.

Some people will complain, threaten to quit .. some people will like the change .. the vast majority won't bat an eyelid and just keep playing.

Abhaya

.

Zevrro

preevious wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Third option : it doesn't matter.

Seems like a rant disguised as a poll ..

How is the fact that the team that are balancing the game don't understand game mechanics something that doesn't matter?

Well, I'll answer when you'll tell me where the holy hell you got the idea that the balance team do not understand the mechanincs.

Is it because they do not obey right away when a handfull of random people complain about any given mechanic on the forum? Isn't that a bit passive agressive? Laughable? Both?

Seriously, they do as good a job in this game than the other games's balance team.
They want to bring the game in a certain direction, they decide on any aspect of the game to modify to go there, as is their prerogative and their business.
It's really that simple.

Some people will complain, threaten to quit .. some people will like the change .. the vast majority won't bat an eyelid and just keep playing.

No, its because they make changes without being able to foresee how those changes will affect the game. They're painfully out of touch with how this game functions which is why every patch you see these strange balance changes that barely make sense on paper and make no sense at all in practice.

kargen27

Yes they do (they are the combat team after all)

yes they do because they have to worry about the mechanics. The elite players burn with no regard for mechanics.

preevious

Zevrro wrote: »

No, its because they make changes without being able to foresee how those changes will affect the game. They're painfully out of touch with how this game functions which is why every patch you see these strange balance changes that barely make sense on paper and make no sense at all in practice.

And I disagree.
The problem is that YOU think they don't foresee consequences, and YOU think they make no sense. Every thing you wrote is absolutely YOUR opinion.

The fact that you can find a bunch of like-minded people to complain on the forums doesn't mean you are right. Happy folks doesn't make nearly as much noise than unhappy folks ..

They made decisions that affect your build. I'm actually sorry for you, about that. It happened to me, and it sucks.
They had reasons to take those decisions .. and while I can't tell you what those reasons are, I can at leat tell you what they are NOT : a desire to troll or anger players, or a gross incompetence from airhead, evil businessmen.

Shantu

Oh, I think they understand the numbers...but don't give a spit about what effect adjusting those numbers have on the enjoyment players have in the game. This next patch is going to make a lot of people angry and leave others just scratching their head about what the heck this combat team has going through their collective brains. I don't know a single player who trusts that these guys have a firm grasp what they're doing. Besides, Crown Store sales give them plenty of room to exercise their right to ignorance.

Zevrro

preevious wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

No, its because they make changes without being able to foresee how those changes will affect the game. They're painfully out of touch with how this game functions which is why every patch you see these strange balance changes that barely make sense on paper and make no sense at all in practice.

And I disagree.
The problem is that YOU think they don't foresee consequences, and YOU think they make no sense. Every thing you wrote is absolutely YOUR opinion.

The fact that you can find a bunch of like-minded people to complain on the forums doesn't mean you are right. Happy folks doesn't make nearly as much noise than unhappy folks ..

They made decisions that affect your build. I'm actually sorry for you, about that. It happened to me, and it sucks.
They had reasons to take those decisions .. and while I can't tell you what those reasons are, I can at leat tell you what they are NOT : a desire to troll or anger players, or a gross incompetence from airhead, evil businessmen.

And its your opinion that they know what they're doing but I disagree.

They didn't make decisions that affect my build at all so if you think this is coming from some personal problem I have with a specific balance change then you're wrong. If anything my main has being getting stronger each patch. I don't have to be directly affected to read the patch notes and see the problems with them.

You just have to look at the questions ZOS asked regarding the class rep feedback to see how limited their knowledge is.

TheNightflame

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

It depends, do they think of mechanics and put them in place, or do they start with "what do we want the players to do?" and create mechanics which achieve that. imo it's a back and forth. @ZOS_Finn knows his mechanics. I should've voted otherwise but Finn is the main zos person I appreciate

Saelent

Yes they do (they are the combat team after all)

I voted ‘yes’ but there’s a ‘but’ in my reason.
They can see the mathematics behind the skills, how many of those skills it takes to kill said boss or whatever. But they haven’t been shown to play the game like their customers (I haven’t seen the videos anyway) and so the hard effect of those abilities mathematically and logically ‘tested’ doesn’t take into account the use of builds and alterations of the situations.

Everyone knows what happens when a hammer hits a nail, that’s what I suspect see from their end, but the hammer isn’t always swung the same way and sometimes it skins and bends the nail.
-Not taking into account the times when you bash your own hand.

TLDR:
Yes they do, but maybe not in a live scenario.

preevious

Zevrro wrote: »

And its your opinion that they know what they're doing but I disagree.

They didn't make decisions that affect my build at all so if you think this is coming from some personal problem I have with a specific balance change then you're wrong. If anything my main has being getting stronger each patch. I don't have to be directly affected to read the patch notes and see the problems with them.

You just have to look at the questions ZOS asked regarding the class rep feedback to see how limited their knowledge is.

Ah, well, we won't see eye to eye...
But it is indeed my opinion, on that, you are actually right.
And sure, it's no more valid than yours.
Anyway, let's agree to disagree! cheers !

Jhalin

They know enough to shove all the spotlight on guild abilities so that new “buy your skills lines” feature is more ‘encouraged’ if you want to stay competitive

Not that being competitive matters when PvE is still just as broken as PvP lately, with no fix for at least half a year

Ayastigi

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

kargen27 wrote: »

yes they do because they have to worry about the mechanics. The elite players burn with no regard for mechanics.

Didn't think about this perspective..might be on to something here

TheBonesXXX

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

Lot of you are confusing theory with mechanics.

Most of you cant wrench. Ig or irl.

ezio45

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

Shantu wrote: »

Oh, I think they understand the numbers...but don't give a spit about what effect adjusting those numbers have on the enjoyment players have in the game. This next patch is going to make a lot of people angry and leave others just scratching their head about what the heck this combat team has going through their collective brains. I don't know a single player who trusts that these guys have a firm grasp what they're doing. Besides, Crown Store sales give them plenty of room to exercise their right to ignorance.

I agree with this. I think there just very out of touch with what players want, what we enjoy about the classes and combat.

Like dots might be more balanced numbers wise but this and many other changes this patch harm the gameplay we as players like.

Elwendryll

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

I'm a dev. It may be my particular situation, but I can guarantee you our clients know way better how to use the system than most of us. Obviously we have experts that are very knowledgeable for their part of the system, but most people weren't around for long, and we only relatively know the parts we work on. I'm pretty sure the people on the team now at ZOS were not here when it started, for the most part. I can't blame them. There is a really noticeable difference between the code and the end utilisation.

Ayastigi

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'm a dev. It may be my particular situation, but I can guarantee you our clients knows way better how to use the system than most of us. Obviously we have experts that are very knowledgeable for their part of the system, but most people weren't around for long, and we only relatively know the parts we work on. I'm pretty sure the people on the team now at ZOS were not here when it started, for the most part. I can't blame them. There is a really noticeable difference between the code and the end utilisation.

This is the best answer for me because of the perspective you're able to give

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

they should play the game, try pve with high ping and try and get light weaving in, go into pvp and try and live when your getting attacked by 3+ players or trains of up to 50-100 chasing you, yes just you down, i think they would get an understanding very quickly

JumpmanLane

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

thelawnranger79 wrote: »

I thought Gilliam the Rogue was on the combat team? I know he’s just one guy but he was one of the best content creators and number crunchers in the game.

I saw him 2 times in Cyro. First time he was getting a carry with a small man and got mopped. The 2nd time he was bowtarding with a Zerg. Unimpressive...

Some of them might play but none of them on a high level. PvP or PvE.

Girl_Number8

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

usmguy1234 wrote: »

When a company relies on cheesed stats from biased forum trolls to make game changes rather than actually testing their game, the answer is unequivocally, no.

Agreed. Plus the simple fact that they have not made the game's performance the top priority says a lot.

Nordic__Knights

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

Their skill level is about the same as it takes to play with a yo-yo because it's all they've done to this game is Nerf buff Nerf buff Nerf buff Nerf buff Nerf buff just going up and down in stupid ass circles but yet having no real common Direction

JumpmanLane

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

preevious wrote: »

Zevrro wrote: »

No, its because they make changes without being able to foresee how those changes will affect the game. They're painfully out of touch with how this game functions which is why every patch you see these strange balance changes that barely make sense on paper and make no sense at all in practice.

And I disagree.
The problem is that YOU think they don't foresee consequences, and YOU think they make no sense. Every thing you wrote is absolutely YOUR opinion.

The fact that you can find a bunch of like-minded people to complain on the forums doesn't mean you are right. Happy folks doesn't make nearly as much noise than unhappy folks ..

They made decisions that affect your build. I'm actually sorry for you, about that. It happened to me, and it sucks.
They had reasons to take those decisions .. and while I can't tell you what those reasons are, I can at leat tell you what they are NOT : a desire to troll or anger players, or a gross incompetence from airhead, evil businessmen.

Sloads, glyph-meta, cast time on shields...just off the top of my head lol.

karthrag_inak

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

The biggest problem isn't whether they can complete the hardest content, the issue is that they have no idea how the classes interplay - they are trying to balance buckets without having a clue as to what's in them.

MojaveHeld

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

Generally, no, they definitely don't understand them. They have a theoretical understanding of them, but their practical understanding of them is pretty much nonexistent. They create something based off of "Oh, this sounds cool," or "That sounds interesting," but it's quite obvious that they don't generally go "Is it feasible, enjoyable, and how does it actually work in practice?" If they had actually bothered to try to get an actual practical understanding of what they design, they never would have done a lot of things the way they did (such as the netches in stage 2 of vBRP). Anyone with even a very basic practical understanding of the game would never make those design decisions.

Amira

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

If you're talking about greed then yes.

If you're talking about the game and the players, I would say it is time to clean house and get rid of Brian Wheeler.

Gythral

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

They totally understand
create a problem and sell a fix

anything else they are ordered not to get involved in!

Joy_Division

They play and they know the game.

The problem is that their visions and ideas are often questionable and they don't ask if something might be a bad idea *before* they waste resources and time implementing them.

Ragnaroek93

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

usmguy1234 wrote: »

When a company relies on cheesed stats from biased forum trolls to make game changes rather than actually testing their game, the answer is unequivocally, no.

^ this

Pallio

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

It always seems like their job is to get people to quit ESO.

ccfeeling

No they do not (ZOS combat team can't complete eso's hardest content after all)

They have to create some problems continuously to protect their jobs , isn't it ?