Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
NERF for Rally And Vigor
-
TheHsN✭✭✭✭✭
✭MyKillv2.0 wrote: »Can you pls @ZOS_GinaBruno Revert Vigor NERF or Buff it little Bit.
And PLS Revert Rally Changes... You only kill classes fun...
I Guess Gonna Cancel My Sub Again...
I got enough with the nerfs.....I dont Pay money and Gold everytime to Get Nerfed....
Why did you tag Gina?
She is a community manager, not even the Lead CC anymore correct? She talks to streamers and once a week, for one month each quarter posts patches notes on PTS. She isn't involved with the combat team at all. How is she going to fix this issue?
She is the Only One Gets People And actually do something or trying.... Do Not worry for her she can manage it... And why you care so much:)...Plays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE0 -
RiskyChalice863✭✭✭Rally didn’t get nerfed. The baseline heal was increased by 100% but the max bonus was reduced from +564% to +300%. That’s a buff. Let’s take for instance an example where the baseline heal is 1000 on live. With a +564% buff, the max burst heal would be 6640 healing. With this patch, the baseline heal would be 2000, and a +300% bonus would take it to 8000 healing. So the max burst heal is 20.5% larger. And because the baseline is higher while the bonus scaling over time is lower, its relative effectiveness is superior to an even greater degree if you’re reactivating it well before it reaches the max.
Yes, you do lose the healing over time, but that heal over time was pretty small. And you get Minor Endurance instead, which could be really great if you don’t have it from any other source.
The fact that it only reaches its max burst heal at the very end rather than 70% through is basically not really much of a change, since the duration was lowered. But to the extent it is a change, it means you can get the max burst sooner (20 seconds vs. 23 seconds).
It also costs less.
I don’t really think it can be called a nerf to the ability when you lose a small hot, but in exchange, the burst heal (the primary use of the ability) was buffed by 20% or more depending on how you use it, the time it takes to reach that max burst heal was reduced from 23 seconds to 20 seconds, you get minor endurance from the ability, and the cost was decreased.3 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »Rally didn’t get nerfed. The baseline heal was increased by 100% but the max bonus was reduced from +564% to +300%. That’s a buff. Let’s take for instance an example where the baseline heal is 1000 on live. With a +564% buff, the max burst heal would be 6640 healing. With this patch, the baseline heal would be 2000, and a +300% bonus would take it to 8000 healing. So the max burst heal is 20.5% larger. And because the baseline is higher while the bonus scaling over time is lower, its relative effectiveness is superior to an even greater degree if you’re reactivating it well before it reaches the max.
Yes, you do lose the healing over time, but that heal over time was pretty small. And you get Minor Endurance instead, which could be really great if you don’t have it from any other source.
The fact that it only reaches its max burst heal at the very end rather than 70% through is basically not really much of a change, since the duration was lowered. But to the extent it is a change, it means you can get the max burst sooner (20 seconds vs. 23 seconds).
It also costs less.
I don’t really think it can be called a nerf to the ability when you lose a small hot, but in exchange, the burst heal (the primary use of the ability) was buffed by 20% or more depending on how you use it, the time it takes to reach that max burst heal was reduced from 23 seconds to 20 seconds, you get minor endurance from the ability, and the cost was decreased.
Wayament. Dat doesn't fit the spin these clowns are crying about. Someone boo this man for logical-ing.4 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
When Factoring in the increased damage taken from dots it comes down to being a huge nerf that makes playing stamina absolutely horrible.
Especially if we consider that RR offers 400 healing per tick less with half the stats (as shown in other threads tested on pts) while having a better heal to cost ratio0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
If maintaining 100% uptime, it costs more and takes dps away through the loss of an extra GCD.3 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »ZOS is crazy about tasting Magicka Players ass.
Very rich considering how stam has been meta for about ever now unless you are ball zergling.
They walked this vigor buff back so far they nerfed it and zos somehow thinks DOT buffs + Vigor/FM nerfs = balance. Don’t make any lick of sense.
Funny every time we say stamina has been meta in pvp for years you hear crickets. They know too damn well it's true lol.
So many magicka specs are outright not viable for 1vX since years.
I always cringe when people say stamsorc is one of the worst class in pvp. My friend mains a stamsorc and it's his favorite to 1vX with among all the best Stam specs even Stamwarden. Insane mobility great damage with troll king/7th legion/prisoner's.
Edited by Revokus on August 9, 2019 3:34AMPlaying since January 23, 20161 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭master_vanargand wrote: »ZOS is crazy about tasting Magicka Players ass.
Very rich considering how stam has been meta for about ever now unless you are ball zergling.
They walked this vigor buff back so far they nerfed it and zos somehow thinks DOT buffs + Vigor/FM nerfs = balance. Don’t make any lick of sense.
Funny every time we say stamina has been meta in pvp for years you hear crickets. They know too damn well it's true lol.
So many magicka specs are outright not viable for 1vX since years.
I always cringe when people say stamsorc is one of the worst class in pvp. My friend mains a stamsorc and it's his favorite to 1vX with among all the best Stam specs even Stamwarden. Insane mobility great damage with troll king/7th legion/prisoner's.
Oh sorry I didn't know your friend represents a valid statistical pool. One friend of mine says cloak is bad because he always gets pulled out from it. I guess cloak needs buffs then?3 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »ZOS is crazy about tasting Magicka Players ass.
Very rich considering how stam has been meta for about ever now unless you are ball zergling.
They walked this vigor buff back so far they nerfed it and zos somehow thinks DOT buffs + Vigor/FM nerfs = balance. Don’t make any lick of sense.
Funny every time we say stamina has been meta in pvp for years you hear crickets. They know too damn well it's true lol.
So many magicka specs are outright not viable for 1vX since years.
I always cringe when people say stamsorc is one of the worst class in pvp. My friend mains a stamsorc and it's his favorite to 1vX with among all the best Stam specs even Stamwarden. Insane mobility great damage with troll king/7th legion/prisoner's.
Oh sorry I didn't know your friend represents a valid statistical pool. One friend of mine says cloak is bad because he always gets pulled out from it. I guess cloak needs buffs then?
Well I sure did duelled him hundreds of times and played with him 2vX. Stamsorc is 10x better than magnecro/melee magblade and even ranged magblade and magwarden solo. Anything stamina is better than those mag specs solo really.Edited by Revokus on August 9, 2019 6:55AMPlaying since January 23, 20160 -
Nerftheforums✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerftheforums wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »ZOS is crazy about tasting Magicka Players ass.
Very rich considering how stam has been meta for about ever now unless you are ball zergling.
They walked this vigor buff back so far they nerfed it and zos somehow thinks DOT buffs + Vigor/FM nerfs = balance. Don’t make any lick of sense.
Funny every time we say stamina has been meta in pvp for years you hear crickets. They know too damn well it's true lol.
So many magicka specs are outright not viable for 1vX since years.
I always cringe when people say stamsorc is one of the worst class in pvp. My friend mains a stamsorc and it's his favorite to 1vX with among all the best Stam specs even Stamwarden. Insane mobility great damage with troll king/7th legion/prisoner's.
Oh sorry I didn't know your friend represents a valid statistical pool. One friend of mine says cloak is bad because he always gets pulled out from it. I guess cloak needs buffs then?
Well I sure did duelled him hundreds of times and played with him 2vX. Stamsorc is 10x better than magnecro/melee magblade and even ranged magblade and magwarden solo. Anything stamina is better than those mag specs solo really.
So your friend is happy with the state of stamsorc and considers it on par with other classes from a skill, passive, and identity perspective?
Just asking since literally all the stamsorcs I know consider the class a shadow of its potential, and definitely not on par with its counterparts.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
When Factoring in the increased damage taken from dots it comes down to being a huge nerf that makes playing stamina absolutely horrible.
Especially if we consider that RR offers 400 healing per tick less with half the stats (as shown in other threads tested on pts) while having a better heal to cost ratio
When Vigor will be moved to S&B skill line and RR will be made caster only, then we can make HPS of those skills even, because right now using RR comes with some major inconveniences like being forced to use defensive weapon, not being able to use heals on front bar and when some other people are around you can't be sure you will even recieve the heal, that's why RR have to be better in some way to compensate things I have mentioned above - it used be lower cost.
One thing that I agree with is that stam needs another off heal. IMHO Rally morph should get it's hot back, while forward momentum should remain as it is now on PTS.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People saying vigor got buffed and is fine needs to jump on pts and get a reality check......lmao8 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vigor is balanced like shields.
Be happy.
And don't forget that if you find vigor underpowered, a magsorc can just no longer sustain his nerfed shield.
BaLaNcEd5 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
When Factoring in the increased damage taken from dots it comes down to being a huge nerf that makes playing stamina absolutely horrible.
Especially if we consider that RR offers 400 healing per tick less with half the stats (as shown in other threads tested on pts) while having a better heal to cost ratio
When Vigor will be moved to S&B skill line and RR will be made caster only, then we can make HPS of those skills even, because right now using RR comes with some major inconveniences like being forced to use defensive weapon, not being able to use heals on front bar and when some other people are around you can't be sure you will even recieve the heal, that's why RR have to be better in some way to compensate things I have mentioned above - it used be lower cost.
One thing that I agree with is that stam needs another off heal. IMHO Rally morph should get it's hot back, while forward momentum should remain as it is now on PTS.
Stam classes do have other off heals, being available in class or guild. Many utility skills have been given dynamic scaling, and circle of protection has a HoT. The means of healing and defensive mechanics have shifted to be more class based.1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
When Factoring in the increased damage taken from dots it comes down to being a huge nerf that makes playing stamina absolutely horrible.
Especially if we consider that RR offers 400 healing per tick less with half the stats (as shown in other threads tested on pts) while having a better heal to cost ratio
When Vigor will be moved to S&B skill line and RR will be made caster only, then we can make HPS of those skills even, because right now using RR comes with some major inconveniences like being forced to use defensive weapon, not being able to use heals on front bar and when some other people are around you can't be sure you will even recieve the heal, that's why RR have to be better in some way to compensate things I have mentioned above - it used be lower cost.
One thing that I agree with is that stam needs another off heal. IMHO Rally morph should get it's hot back, while forward momentum should remain as it is now on PTS.
Stam classes do have other off heals, being available in class or guild. Many utility skills have been given dynamic scaling, and circle of protection has a HoT. The means of healing and defensive mechanics have shifted to be more class based.
None of those heals are enough to replace the loss of ~1k hps from FM/Rally hot and the nerfs to vigor.
Circle of protection is a small hot that requires you to stand in a small are which is impossible to do in PvP and will always results in more damage taken than just kiting without getting additional heals1 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Nerftheforums wrote: »master_vanargand wrote: »ZOS is crazy about tasting Magicka Players ass.
Very rich considering how stam has been meta for about ever now unless you are ball zergling.
They walked this vigor buff back so far they nerfed it and zos somehow thinks DOT buffs + Vigor/FM nerfs = balance. Don’t make any lick of sense.
Funny every time we say stamina has been meta in pvp for years you hear crickets. They know too damn well it's true lol.
So many magicka specs are outright not viable for 1vX since years.
I always cringe when people say stamsorc is one of the worst class in pvp. My friend mains a stamsorc and it's his favorite to 1vX with among all the best Stam specs even Stamwarden. Insane mobility great damage with troll king/7th legion/prisoner's.
Oh sorry I didn't know your friend represents a valid statistical pool. One friend of mine says cloak is bad because he always gets pulled out from it. I guess cloak needs buffs then?
Well I sure did duelled him hundreds of times and played with him 2vX. Stamsorc is 10x better than magnecro/melee magblade and even ranged magblade and magwarden solo. Anything stamina is better than those mag specs solo really.
So your friend is happy with the state of stamsorc and considers it on par with other classes from a skill, passive, and identity perspective?
Just asking since literally all the stamsorcs I know consider the class a shadow of its potential, and definitely not on par with its counterparts.
Stamsorc may lack identity a bit but at least they are very viable in pvp and for 1vX. Couldn't say the same about some mag specs having to struggle to land burst and not having a good CC/lacking execute capabilities.Edited by Revokus on August 9, 2019 7:52PMPlaying since January 23, 20161 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »Rally didn’t get nerfed. The baseline heal was increased by 100% but the max bonus was reduced from +564% to +300%. That’s a buff. Let’s take for instance an example where the baseline heal is 1000 on live. With a +564% buff, the max burst heal would be 6640 healing. With this patch, the baseline heal would be 2000, and a +300% bonus would take it to 8000 healing. So the max burst heal is 20.5% larger. And because the baseline is higher while the bonus scaling over time is lower, its relative effectiveness is superior to an even greater degree if you’re reactivating it well before it reaches the max.
Yes, you do lose the healing over time, but that heal over time was pretty small. And you get Minor Endurance instead, which could be really great if you don’t have it from any other source.
The fact that it only reaches its max burst heal at the very end rather than 70% through is basically not really much of a change, since the duration was lowered. But to the extent it is a change, it means you can get the max burst sooner (20 seconds vs. 23 seconds).
It also costs less.
I don’t really think it can be called a nerf to the ability when you lose a small hot, but in exchange, the burst heal (the primary use of the ability) was buffed by 20% or more depending on how you use it, the time it takes to reach that max burst heal was reduced from 23 seconds to 20 seconds, you get minor endurance from the ability, and the cost was decreased.
Wayament. Dat doesn't fit the spin these clowns are crying about. Someone boo this man for logical-ing.
Base cost of Rally is 3780. "Just use Rally" isn't something that will be happening every time you need a heal unless you stack recovery, since it'll probably be the most expensive skill on your bar. Everyone should know that on live if you rely on the instant heal from Rally to keep yourself alive, you will be out of stam very very fast and end up dying anyway.Edited by ecru on August 9, 2019 7:55PMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭BlackMadara wrote: »1. Single target HPS of vigor when compared to live is slightly better, it is just shorter. It's not a nerf. The biggest nerf of vigor is losing the AoE heal, which is good.
2. Yup, Rally could have it's hot back, but only Rally, momentum should stay as it is.
When Factoring in the increased damage taken from dots it comes down to being a huge nerf that makes playing stamina absolutely horrible.
Especially if we consider that RR offers 400 healing per tick less with half the stats (as shown in other threads tested on pts) while having a better heal to cost ratio
When Vigor will be moved to S&B skill line and RR will be made caster only, then we can make HPS of those skills even, because right now using RR comes with some major inconveniences like being forced to use defensive weapon, not being able to use heals on front bar and when some other people are around you can't be sure you will even recieve the heal, that's why RR have to be better in some way to compensate things I have mentioned above - it used be lower cost.
One thing that I agree with is that stam needs another off heal. IMHO Rally morph should get it's hot back, while forward momentum should remain as it is now on PTS.
Stam classes do have other off heals, being available in class or guild. Many utility skills have been given dynamic scaling, and circle of protection has a HoT. The means of healing and defensive mechanics have shifted to be more class based.
None of those heals are enough to replace the loss of ~1k hps from FM/Rally hot and the nerfs to vigor.
Circle of protection is a small hot that requires you to stand in a small are which is impossible to do in PvP and will always results in more damage taken than just kiting without getting additional heals
The class specific heals are enough to replace the HoT from Rally. On live Rally heals every 2 seconds, so it is not healing 1k hps. My stam DK, with major mending and 7600 effective damage (wd + max stam/10.5), would heal for about 950 no crit per 2s.
Cauterize on the same build heals for about 5000 every 5s, so about 1k hps. Ritual for templar was buffed to function similarly, and other skills adjusted to allow both magicka and stamina specs to utilize. The only detriment would be stam classes may need more magicka to use these.
The vigor nerfs are a bit too harsh, I agree. The duration should at least be brought back to 5 seconds, but I'd rather see the total healing increased from what it is currently.1 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭RiskyChalice863 wrote: »Rally didn’t get nerfed. The baseline heal was increased by 100% but the max bonus was reduced from +564% to +300%. That’s a buff. Let’s take for instance an example where the baseline heal is 1000 on live. With a +564% buff, the max burst heal would be 6640 healing. With this patch, the baseline heal would be 2000, and a +300% bonus would take it to 8000 healing. So the max burst heal is 20.5% larger. And because the baseline is higher while the bonus scaling over time is lower, its relative effectiveness is superior to an even greater degree if you’re reactivating it well before it reaches the max.
Yes, you do lose the healing over time, but that heal over time was pretty small. And you get Minor Endurance instead, which could be really great if you don’t have it from any other source.
The fact that it only reaches its max burst heal at the very end rather than 70% through is basically not really much of a change, since the duration was lowered. But to the extent it is a change, it means you can get the max burst sooner (20 seconds vs. 23 seconds).
It also costs less.
I don’t really think it can be called a nerf to the ability when you lose a small hot, but in exchange, the burst heal (the primary use of the ability) was buffed by 20% or more depending on how you use it, the time it takes to reach that max burst heal was reduced from 23 seconds to 20 seconds, you get minor endurance from the ability, and the cost was decreased.
Exactly this. In every thread i see "but Rally nerfed" atleast 15 times, but when watching videos of ppl actually testing it on pts, everyone is praising it how good that burst heal now is. Even afer 10 sec you can get nice burst from it.
2 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I sure am going to miss the regular healing tick of Forward Momentum / Rally to reliably activate Troll King, for example when CCd or when your displayed health desyncs from the server. No idea why that skill needed to be homogenized to grant Major Evasion instead, especially after Vigor ended up unchanged.2
