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Vigor 5.1.4: why?
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josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Get enough magicka players to *** on the forums and this is the result you get. Meanwhile they still have higher tooltips with mutagen, a buff to all shields, and most single target DoTs are MAGICKA. Good luck trying to get an actual intelligent answer.
SHIELDS GOT BUFFED!?! Lol in pve maybe but that health % change won’t see any changes for pvp.
They now scale 60%. That is a buff. I used to main magsorc so dont try and come at me like I dont know what I'm talking about. Yes they got an increase in cost (barely) and harness got gutted, but shield stacking is still going to be a problem.
Shields got massively nerfed. They are almost worthless now. A 6k shield is worthless. You will never hit the health cap, so raising it was not a buff, it was a joke.12 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is no change to the current meta other than they nerfed protective... and there were already 1v1 stalls from building that way.0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭
To a point yes to quote from a post from ZoS in additional context for combat in U23
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones. Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.
In other words glass cannon builds are gonna be hurting this update1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So resolving vigor is more expensive, slightly more effective (let’s not forget rally HoT is gone), and is only single target. Honestly if you’re not a stamina DK with major mending this sounds pretty close to a nerf/break even except that now a bunch of the DoTs are buffed to heck. If you’re with even one other person echoing vigor might make way more sense. Thanks everyone who went on PTS expressly for the purpose of making cheesy vigor tooltips with major mending.
Not just to point it out to you, a few people in here are being disingenuous with what the changes are:
Copied from 5.1.0:
Vigor: Adhered this ability to our single target HoT standards.
Vigor and Resolving Vigor now only heal the caster.
Increased the duration to 10 seconds from 5 seconds, but decreased the tick frequency to 2 seconds from 1 second.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 85%.
Reduced the cost to 2295 from 3511.
Resolving Vigor (morph): This morph doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Echoing Vigor (morph): This morph reintroduces the Area of Effect healing capability, healing up to 6 allies in a 15 meter radius.
The increase in healing is roughly 50% or so and a slight decrease in cost than what it currently is live.
Oh nice, I just looked it up to double check but I guess fextralife has it wrong. And now I see they wrote 20521 as the cost and I saw just 2521. Swing and a miss lol. Anyway it’s not gonna boil down to all that much more healing when you consider the loss of rally hot and big buffs to many dots. I’m very concerned about medium armor next patch. I had hoped the changes to shuffle indicated it’s rise but the subsequent nerfs, nerds to protective and then this doesn’t bode well.Edited by Vapirko on August 5, 2019 10:07PM0 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭How I undertand the patch notes with a quick example calculation:
Lets say on an example build and the current version of the game base vigor heals for 10k (to work with a round number).
1) Current version of the game
--> Base vigor heals for 10k health over 5 seconds with 6 ticks. Each tick heals for ~ 1667 health
--> Resolving vigor heals for ~ 29.1% more than base vigor. This leads to 12910 health over 5 seconds with 6 ticks. Each tick would heal for ~ 2152 health.
2) PTS 5.1.0
--> Base vigor got a 85% buff, but resolving vigor lost its healing bonus and instead kept the current properties of vigor (5 seconds duration, 6 ticks).
--> Resolving vigor heals for 18500 health over 5 seconds with 6 ticks. Each tick would heal for ~ 3083 health.
PTS 5.1.4
--> Resolving vigor got a 28% nerf to the healing output of each tick compared to 5.1.0 and additionally lost one tick of healing altogether.
--> Resolving vigor heals for 18500 * 0.72 * (5/6) = 11100 health over 4 seconds with 5 ticks. Each tick would heal for 2220 health.
Overall this clearly looks like a nerf to me compared to the live version, because the total healing got significantly reduced versus a pretty small increase of the HPS. Additionally, resolving vigor completely lost its AOE team heal capabilities. Tbh, I really don't know what ZOS is doing. First they overbuff the skill and then they nerf is so it becomes weaker than the current version. Seems like they lack a clear direction - as almost always.
If any of the calculations are wrong please correct me.Edited by HankTwo on August 5, 2019 10:11PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK11 -
Blobsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭Get enough magicka players to *** on the forums and this is the result you get. Meanwhile they still have higher tooltips with mutagen, a buff to all shields, and most single target DoTs are MAGICKA. Good luck trying to get an actual intelligent answer.
edit: I stand corrected with emphasis on "most". It's fairly balanced with single target DoTs
Shields received a substantial nerf, and atleast previously the heal per second of Magicka was enormously less. I have no idea what the hps of mutagen is on PTS currently though as it changes every week lolYt Channell: Blobsky
DC EU Nightblade
Owner of 'The Travelling Merchant' - Craglorn trade guild since near release!3 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »
Shields got massively nerfed. They are almost worthless now. A 6k shield is worthless. You will never hit the health cap, so raising it was not a buff, it was a joke.
They now scale 60%. That is a buff. I used to main magsorc so dont try and come at me like I dont know what I'm talking about. Yes they got an increase in cost (barely) and harness got gutted, but shield stacking is still going to be a problem.
SHIELDS GOT BUFFED!?! Lol in pve maybe but that health % change won’t see any changes for pvp.Get enough magicka players to *** on the forums and this is the result you get. Meanwhile they still have higher tooltips with mutagen, a buff to all shields, and most single target DoTs are MAGICKA. Good luck trying to get an actual intelligent answer.
This is the important part that most people are completely missing ...
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not like it matters. If vigor is weak next patch, no stam will play medium, everyone will play heavy and next PTS mag is gonna complain stam is OP and ZoS nerfs shuffle or something...Edited by SodanTok on August 5, 2019 10:15PM5 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pts:
Live:
Taken from someone with no gear plus 12 points in blessed.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
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All naked no gear, no passives, no points spend
1. Stam version is way more expensive
2. Tooltip is way lower
3. most classes have vigor as only or main defensive (while magicka has class heals, shields and skill line heals)
4. Duration is to low and its a selfish heal now that doesent reward teamplay nowclass representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling12 -
Pelican✭✭✭✭✭What a huge disgracePC NA - EP Solo PvP Player
https://www.youtube.com/c/pelicaneso12 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Finedaible wrote: »wtf is even going on anymore? Where is everything headed?
Headed into the ground my friend.4 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sheesh. So rapid regen is cheaper and heals for more then vigor. Hmm🤤
PC EU
PvP only5 -
artal✭✭✭This is becoming so ***.
To be honest with all the crying about stamina being OP, when honestly few broken sets were main culprits of that, we end up with those sets changed( some still good, some trash), loosing tick heals on momentum, vigor ending up similar to live values and number of strong dots in game went up, adding cast time on ults (kind of feel this hurts medium dmg stam builds most)...
I just can't see reasoning behind it all
Curious to see how easy will be to survive for average stamina JOE being hit by soul trap, entrophy and lets say cripple+ reach dot (or some proc set like icy). It will be easy and quick to stack 4-5 dots with huge tooltips from safety of distance or cloak... yaaaay7 -
wills43b14_ESO✭✭✭@Lyar09 it's only a buff for PvP if you have like 70k+ max magicka.... which no one does. The shield cap increase alone would have required somewhere around 60-70k max mag to utilize in PvP (ignoring bastion), but the shield size scaling nerf increased that even further. Overall, in PvP, shields are MORE expensive for lesser performance for most competitive sorcs (some might get a small increase if they had a low hp amount).
example: max mag shield scaling is 0.468 * max mag on live - factor in the (9% nerf iirc?) and that's 0.42488 * max mag (based on UESP build editor regression coefficients w/ R^2's of 0.99-1.0: I.e. it means they've accounted for all of the variation for shield size w/ the max mag coefficient alone).
If we have 27k hp, we can get a shield for 16.2k (60%). Now, to get 16.2k, we take 16.2k = 0.42488 * max mag and solve (this is before battle spirit). Before battlespirit you would need 38k max mag. Now, battle spirit reduces shield size by 50%, so we need to take 16.2k * 2 to get 32000 (this is the shield size you need to get 16.2k after battle spirit is applied). Do the math again and we get 76k max magicka req to reach shield cap pre bastion.
Let's say shields are 15% bigger w/ bastion CP: you still need a shield size of 28.2k, so that's still 66.3k magicka
What this means: There is no realistic way to get a 60% shield cap. A 50% shield cap (no bastion) is 63k max magicka, and w/ 15% from bastion it still requires 55k max magicka.Godslayer
Tick Tock Tormentor
Gryphon Heart
Immortal Redeemer6 -
wills43b14_ESO✭✭✭Actually, I lied, it's still a straight up nerf even excluding costs as you probably can't reach shield cap realistically for 50% on PTS....Godslayer
Tick Tock Tormentor
Gryphon Heart
Immortal Redeemer1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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It will be 6% more powerful, but for 6% increased cost, with 25% more GCD consumed and with no heal to allies. This is clear major nerf even if we separate it from nerf of rally/fm. And together with nerf of rally/fm, buff of dots, and nerf of heavy armor it is just WTF.9 -
INinjaNinja✭✭✭quality patch notes as usual, with the age old adage from ZoS "if it aint broke, break it".
Why tamper with the only real HoT available to most stamina characters after injecting DoTs with horse steroids.
Going to be real fun advancing towards any mag class as hes loading you up with every sexually transmitted disease in the game and your trying to out heal it with this pitiful excuse of a heal22 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭INinjaNinja wrote: »quality patch notes as usual, with the age old adage from ZoS "if it aint broke, break it".
Why tamper with the only real HoT available to most stamina characters after injecting DoTs with horse steroids.
Going to be real fun advancing towards any mag class as hes loading you up with every sexually transmitted disease in the game and your trying to out heal it with this pitiful excuse of a heal
Lol absolutely1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They roll two dices:
One is the numbers of the healing / damage / tank stat:
The other is the skill.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends1 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭It’s a nerf, plain and simple.Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why? for the same reason the Dot Class can't have its Ultimate work on Dots...because reasons....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
It will be 6% more powerful, but for 6% increased cost, with 25% more GCD consumed and with no heal to allies. This is clear major nerf even if we separate it from nerf of rally/fm. And together with nerf of rally/fm, buff of dots, and nerf of heavy armor it is just WTF.So the new Vigor will be slightly more expensive but quicker and stronger for the caster ...
So basically, all the things i said ...
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