Old Onslaught vs New Onslaught

erio

Which one do you like better

erio

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Personally I prefer the old, much more rewarding to use than just gaining some penetrations

Iskiab

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

New version is way more powerful. Some people just don’t understand mechanics enough to see it.

I’ve seen someone say it’ll get nerfed on live within a month of release because it’s so OP. I think they’re right.

Since most specs are at about 70% mitigation in pvp and will be down to 50% base with onslaught, think of the new onslaught like a 60% dps buff.

Rikumaru

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Iskiab

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Rikumaru

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Iskiab

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Potentially, with lag and health desync’s there’ll be a lot of what looks like one shots going on. You may be right, but I expect a stamcro bash build v2.0. Forgetting pen and just going full sp/wp in pvp? Yea, it’ll be OP. Especially when tanky builds get globaled people won’t like it, or first to onslaught duels...

Urzigurumash

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

It's an unmitigated loss for StamDK in my view, since we lose a useful and rewarding method of sustain via our Ultimate sustain passive, and since we already had this function with Corrosive, and since this change may have caused the nerf to Corrosive.

However it's probably better for most classes, and there are plenty of other options as StamDK. Certainly Onslaught will see much more use overall.

Wuuffyy

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Urzigurumash wrote: »

It's an unmitigated loss for StamDK in my view, since we lose a useful and rewarding method of sustain via our Ultimate sustain passive, and since we already had this function with Corrosive, and since this change may have caused the nerf to Corrosive.

However it's probably better for most classes, and there are plenty of other options as StamDK. Certainly Onslaught will see much more use overall.

Just so you know. They wouldn't undo the corrosive nerf now. It was cheese. Just so you know... like WW

darkblue5

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Yes the new is stronger over all but the old had its niche uses and was unique.

Tommy_The_Gun

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

I really dont understand why they buffed it. I mean 12 sec of full pen is kinda very strong if not OP. Compared to this, NB's Incap feels like a wooden toy at this point... LOL... ?

My prediction is we will end up with every stamina (and possibly even magicka as it gives you mag pen too) build running it & combo it with gap close & dual wield AOE spam... for 12 seconds...

Wuuffyy

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I really dont understand why they buffed it. I mean 12 sec of full pen is kinda very strong if not OP. Compared to this, NB's Incap feels like a wooden toy at this point... LOL... ?

My prediction is we will end up with every stamina (and possibly even magicka as it gives you mag pen too) build running it & combo it with gap close & dual wield AOE spam... for 12 seconds...

Like we weren't all running dawny? Lol.

Wuuffyy

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

They just want it nurfed lul.

wheem_ESO

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I really dont understand why they buffed it. I mean 12 sec of full pen is kinda very strong if not OP. Compared to this, NB's Incap feels like a wooden toy at this point... LOL... ?

My prediction is we will end up with every stamina (and possibly even magicka as it gives you mag pen too) build running it & combo it with gap close & dual wield AOE spam... for 12 seconds...

Like we weren't all running dawny? Lol.

You say that like stam builds were all "forced" to run a really bad ultimate. Dawnbreaker was vastly superior to Meteor (and most other "magicka" ultimates) in almost all cases, at least for people that don't zerg serf.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question - I'd say neither. Changing it away from the old version was just fine, but it shouldn't be a cheap, AOE-capable burst ultimate that ignores resists + gives a further 12 seconds of essentially full penetration. It's too strong right now IMO, especially given the cost.

Iskiab

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I really dont understand why they buffed it. I mean 12 sec of full pen is kinda very strong if not OP. Compared to this, NB's Incap feels like a wooden toy at this point... LOL... ?

My prediction is we will end up with every stamina (and possibly even magicka as it gives you mag pen too) build running it & combo it with gap close & dual wield AOE spam... for 12 seconds...

Like we weren't all running dawny? Lol.

You say that like stam builds were all "forced" to run a really bad ultimate. Dawnbreaker was vastly superior to Meteor (and most other "magicka" ultimates) in almost all cases, at least for people that don't zerg serf.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question - I'd say neither. Changing it away from the old version was just fine, but it shouldn't be a cheap, AOE-capable burst ultimate that ignores resists + gives a further 12 seconds of essentially full penetration. It's too strong right now IMO, especially given the cost.

Yea, I think people are planning on using it so think it’s great. People always forget that others will use it too, then they won’t like it. We’ll see.

Abhaya

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Already use berserker strike just trading the CC immunity and resistance for pen. My dizzy, ult, execute combo is already deadly but now every one of those skills are getting buffed. I’m happy with this patch despite all the complaints from others.

kaithuzar

Honestly I think they were just looking for a way to buff steel potato under the radar.
Now we’ll have..,
ADAMANTIUM POTATOES

Ulfgarde

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Bring back old morph and stop copypaste-ing OP effects (corrosive on a burst ulti) from other skills and ruining PvP by throwing around powerful effects like candy. The new ulti is just straight-up terrible and lazy design.

katorga

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

The new one is unquestionably more powerful on paper, offering 15-50% more damage to the target tied to how much armor the initial target had. Actually a pretty well designed tank counter. Personally, I'll be wearing a dress costume so no one will hit me first to steal my resistance rating.

kalunte

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

how many of those who voted "old oinslaught" use it? i mean, i'm very curious to know.

if we put aside all the ppl that read the pts patch note, know that it's going to be buff and are lvling the skill up to morph and perfected morph i sincerely cant count how many ppl i've crossed that actually and frequently use "onslaught".

they must be 10. with all the latency issue this game have, i cant believe that some many ppl using it prefere the old form.

Xvorg

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Old designs was better, but TBH, besides panacea, no weapon ulti has given anything to this game, just generic stuff.

EotS = Bats
Rend= Twin slashes on roids
Spell wall = Old wings
Rapid Fire = Soul assault
Onslaught = Corrosive on roids

Royalthought

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

I'm honestly on the fence.

The old version was great for killing multiple people if you time it well as a finisher.

Kill multiple "easier" to kill targets.

OR

The new one will be better for finishing high resistance tanks.

Better against tanks in one engagement but lesser for consecutive follow up battles.


But since bleeds got nerfed and defile taken away, there are less ways to counter high resistance builds outside of onslaught.

erio

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

the potential 30k pen seems a lot better imo

Iskiab

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

erio wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

the potential 30k pen seems a lot better imo

I agree in theory. A cheaper ultimate might be good, but post patch everyone’s game. Someone being tanky won’t make a difference since they rely more on resistances vs % damage reduction.

I think anyone under 25k health will be an easy mark.

It’s always hard to predict, but prox det prebuffed by a magblade and an onslaught gank can pump out 25k pretty easily if the target has no defense.

I should do the math, but caluurion + prox + onslaught + Bow proc with only 50% damage reduction has got to be 25k easy, prob wouldn’t need a crit.

TimeDazzler

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

New version is OP, but good thing they lowered the duration from 16s to 12s

kalunte

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

btw, Zeni combat team wants ultimate to be "game makers".

since no execute can be considered as a game maker (which was the case of the old onslaught) they had to change it. i mean, if you never reach the point were you can make it proc, you never use it, it has no impact on the fight.

other ult are way better during actual fight.

the live onslaught does not fit.

erio

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

kalunte wrote: »

btw, Zeni combat team wants ultimate to be "game makers".

since no execute can be considered as a game maker (which was the case of the old onslaught) they had to change it. i mean, if you never reach the point were you can make it proc, you never use it, it has no impact on the fight.

other ult are way better during actual fight.

the live onslaught does not fit.

The old version was unique. It rewarded you with resists and your ulti back if you played well. No other ulti is like that. Now every class it seems has access to this generic type of ultimate

Vlad9425

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Incap is not good right now, Onslaught is better than Incap and so is DBoS.

Rikumaru

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Incap is not good right now, Onslaught is better than Incap and so is DBoS.

How is incap not good? It gives a 20% vulnerability (which has been op since the changes made to vulnerabilities). Also 2h ulti does not buff DoTS like incap does and costs over double the ulti cost. Not only that but the pen you gain from 2h ulti makes pen sets / weapons such as spriggans, maul and sharpened a waste to use. Might I also add that the most efficient source of resistances (protective) also got nerfed this patch so everyone will be running less resistances than in the current patch.

Royalthought

Old version - Restores ultimate on kill

Rikumaru wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Incap is not good right now, Onslaught is better than Incap and so is DBoS.

How is incap not good? It gives a 20% vulnerability (which has been op since the changes made to vulnerabilities). Also 2h ulti does not buff DoTS like incap does and costs over double the ulti cost. Not only that but the pen you gain from 2h ulti makes pen sets / weapons such as spriggans, maul and sharpened a waste to use. Might I also add that the most efficient source of resistances (protective) also got nerfed this patch so everyone will be running less resistances than in the current patch.

Because it's been gutted.

Imagine calling the defiless, melee range, Single target, dodgable, blockable ult OP. Which "incapacitating" silence can be instantly CC broken or just grants stam players free immunity after a few seconds.

And unless you have some exclusive patch notes, it does not give 20% vulnerability. It only increases the damage of the one person who casts the ability vs the player it hits.

For comparison the necro ult that applies major vulnerability, forces enemies to take 30% more damage from everyone.

On onslaught vs incap. Gaining tank level general penetration is far superior to 20% more damage on one person.

With no defile tanks can shrug off incap. They won't be shrugging off onslaught.

Rikumaru

New version - Doesnt restore Ultimate, instead gain penetrations

Royalthought wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

New onslaught indirectly buffs classes such as stamina sorcs and stamplars since they don't have access to stronger class ultimates such as incap, leap / corrosive and flesh atro.

Yea, but everyone will run it. Expect lots of onslaught ganks. Heck, I’m a magblade and I’m planning on using it.

Imo incap is still better for stamblade. I don't play a stamina necro but I would probably still slot flesh atro alongside 2h ulti. Not saying it isn't potentially overpowered but it's a great thing other stamina classes can use an ultimate outside of DBoS.

Incap is not good right now, Onslaught is better than Incap and so is DBoS.

How is incap not good? It gives a 20% vulnerability (which has been op since the changes made to vulnerabilities). Also 2h ulti does not buff DoTS like incap does and costs over double the ulti cost. Not only that but the pen you gain from 2h ulti makes pen sets / weapons such as spriggans, maul and sharpened a waste to use. Might I also add that the most efficient source of resistances (protective) also got nerfed this patch so everyone will be running less resistances than in the current patch.

Because it's been gutted.

Imagine calling the defiless, melee range, Single target, dodgable, blockable ult OP. Which "incapacitating" silence can be instantly CC broken or just grants stam players free immunity after a few seconds.

And unless you have some exclusive patch notes, it does not give 20% vulnerability. It only increases the damage of the one person who casts the ability vs the player it hits.

For comparison the necro ult that applies major vulnerability, forces enemies to take 30% more damage from everyone.

On onslaught vs incap. Gaining tank level general penetration is far superior to 20% more damage on one person.

With no defile tanks can shrug off incap. They won't be shrugging off onslaught.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462033/magdks-nightblades-received-a-damage-boost-in-wrathstone-vulnerability-calculation-changes/p1

Also never called incap OP