Improve performance by simplifying consumables and crafting items

Heyodude

How many lemons do you have in your crafting bag?

WRONG! the answer is too many BILL! crafting and food items should be made way simpler following the same vein of soul gems

Killing overland animals and looting their corpse should drop a ration.

1 ration can make any green recipe
2 rations can make any blue recipe
2 rations and a frost mirriam should make any purple recipe
2 rations and a roe should make any gold recipe

get rid of all the different recipes that do the same exact thing, make 1 recipe that does the thing and have it scale to the players level
cap the amount of rations any one account can hold @ 1000 units now your servers dont have to load in 10s of millions of unused lemons, food becomes streamlined and uncomplicated, you're welcome.

How many of you like that sub 160 cp gear requires about 50ish differing crafting items that are just regulated to crafting bag purgatory taking up unnecessary server space creating unnecessary loading times after a character reaches cp 150?

Put your hand down Bill and take the sharpie away from your nostrils!

theres zero reason to have anything other than Ruby mats in the game if it works on a 1:1 ratio

1 level equals 1 more mat
lvl 40 should require 40 ruby mats and so forth

seeing as cp 150 to 160 crafting is the only sane metric ZoS has seen fit to overhaul into an insane memory crafting system they should rework the entire games crafting system to do just that, be sane. cap the amount of materials the crafting bag can hold by, lets just say 10000 materials, to keep the hoarders and their cats happy. And when the hoarders reach that limit and begin complaining, ZOS you say, "Tough sh** Bill! vendor trash some of those redundant mats you cant conceivably find a use for and continue your imbibing in your mentally unhealthy habits... BILL!

(disclaimer, all depictions of characters and events used in this program are purely fictional and completely coincidental... BILL! so stop whining.)

Siohwenoeht

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Androconium

ZOS's does not want you to finish playing. They want you to renew your subscription. Eternally.

Next time that you find something that they "could" do, think in these terms:
Will it make it easier or faster for YOU, the player? If the answer is "yes", then it's unlikely (in my opinion) that they will do anything.

Any new change that slows you progress is likely to have introduced, just for that purpose.


I'm very happy to be proven wrong on both these points.

bmnoble

What a boring idea.

Androconium

bmnoble wrote: »

What a boring idea.

obviously, you meant:

(gunshot)
"what a senseless waste of human life"

Heyodude

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag as the server at this point in time stores and calculates all the data even when profiles are offline, it tracks where the character model is positioned and their overall inventory even if the profile has been inactive for years. So that means KittenSlayr666 who rage quit cyrodil after a failed raid on fort ash is still being accounted for even after 3 years of inactivity every single time an account loads into cyrodil. Could have to contribute to memory leaks, im not a professional though.

They have a quote on quote "cold storage" that these habitual inactive accounts will be placed in following the audit that is supposed to take place this year. I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter. Which is the embodiement of useless data. Just a limit cap would be leagues better, it helps memory usage and loading as with a limited stock pile you can optimise around actual figures. Rather than handing over infinite amounts inventory space and hoping that your server can handle the figurative numbers that can and do exceed ESO's.

Siohwenoeht

Heyodude wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag as the server at this point in time stores and calculates all the data even when profiles are offline, it tracks where the character model is positioned and their overall inventory even if the profile has been inactive for years. So that means KittenSlayr666 who rage quit cyrodil after a failed raid on fort ash is still being accounted for even after 3 years of inactivity every single time an account loads into cyrodil. Could have to contribute to memory leaks, im not a professional though.

They have a quote on quote "cold storage" that these habitual inactive accounts will be placed in following the audit that is supposed to take place this year. I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter. Which is the embodiement of useless data. Just a limit cap would be leagues better, it helps memory usage and loading as with a limited stock pile you can optimise around actual figures. Rather than handing over infinite amounts inventory space and hoping that your server can handle the figurative numbers that can and do exceed ESO's.

Interesting. Seems to me a database rework so those items only load when said database is being accessed would be better than stripping the game to bare minimum information. Similar to what they've done with the guild info, it now only searches for online members when you access the database, instead of constantly refreshing.

Heyodude

I concede that would work, but by simplifying the recipes, the calculations are all that much more simple as well. It might seem a bit more bland of an idea but the end result would net the servers an overall increase and a streamlined inventory management for players as well. I garuntee you over 90 percent of the in games recipe items arent even used.

At the very least you could gather intel on the most popular ones and cut all the rest from the game.

Siohwenoeht

Forgot to ask...

2.5 million pewter ingots... Just waiting for a market rush?

Heyodude

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Forgot to ask...

2.5 million pewter ingots... Just waiting for a market rush?

the legitimate reasoning behind it is that its just easier to leave it in their bags as at this point it would take hours of mindless clicking to get it all out and vendor trash.

blnchk

I'd start by removing CP1-140 mats. Variety in food and drink recipes is one thing; it's interesting and provides options. I've yet to discover a use for the lower CP mats. I don't need them, guildies don't need them, new players don't need them. Even NPC merchants probably prefer different offerings.

WolfingHour

It's... It's like you actually believe each player owned lemon has its own unique database record.

That not how that works. That not how *any* of that works.

Iluvrien

So you want to take the crafting system that ZOS has already simplified and devalued from launch... and remove even more from it?

No. Furthermore, what have you got against the people who actually enjoy crafting that you would ask for this?

rumple9

They aren't real lemons you idiot, its just a number on a database !

Tatanko

Heyodude wrote: »

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag

I think you're misunderstanding what "assets" are in the context of the article. They're referring to the files on your machine which run the game, not lines in a database.

rumple9 wrote: »

They aren't real lemons you idiot, its just a number on a database !

This. The entire premise of this thread is based on a complete misunderstanding of the word "assets".

idk

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Pretty much this.

While for many of us crafting is just a means to an end, quality MMORPGs tend to have rich crafting systems and there are many who get into that. The idea presented is rather bland and boring.

Edit: as others seem to have pointed out, the number of lemons in my bag is irrelevant as they are really just one asset. If you caught Zos explaining why they are not giving us a furniture bag this would make sense. It is a db design thing.

kypranb14_ESO

Heyodude wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag as the server at this point in time stores and calculates all the data even when profiles are offline, it tracks where the character model is positioned and their overall inventory even if the profile has been inactive for years. So that means KittenSlayr666 who rage quit cyrodil after a failed raid on fort ash is still being accounted for even after 3 years of inactivity every single time an account loads into cyrodil. Could have to contribute to memory leaks, im not a professional though.

They have a quote on quote "cold storage" that these habitual inactive accounts will be placed in following the audit that is supposed to take place this year. I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter. Which is the embodiement of useless data. Just a limit cap would be leagues better, it helps memory usage and loading as with a limited stock pile you can optimise around actual figures. Rather than handing over infinite amounts inventory space and hoping that your server can handle the figurative numbers that can and do exceed ESO's.

Actually when processing data like this, usually the number of a an item, in this case refined pewter is largely irrelevant. It's the number of different types of items that has an impact. Example below.

Bill has:
- 2,500,000 refined pewter (as per your example)
- No other items, not even equipment.

Joe has:
- 1 refined pewter
- 1 flame staff of bright-throat
- 1 robe of bright-throat
- 1 breeches of bright-throat
- 1 gloves of bright-throat
- 1spinner's necklace
- 2 spinner's rings
- 1 spinner's belt
- 1 spinner's boots
- 21 witchmother's potent brew
- 97 essence of magicka

Bill has 1 item worth of impact on the server as long as it's in the craft bag, otherwise each stack will count as 1 item worth of impact. In the case of no craft bag Bill's impact becomes 12,500 items worth of impact. (Which would be impossible due to the stack limit per character, including the bank and alternate characters)

Joe has 12 items worth of impact on the server with or without the craft bag because none of his items exceed a 1 stack value, except for the spinner's rings which do not stack.

Therefore we can determine the maximum impact one character can have on the server assuming they have maximum character slots, inventory slots on every character, maximum bank space and no ESO+ and no coffers would be 3,900 slots.

I don't know how many different crafting ingredient type items are in the game, and had no luck with a google search. You can be sure that hoarding of every type of item in the game bogs down the server for sure though, even if it's only 1 of each item.

rfennell_ESO

They have avoided this issue, likely because of how it requires the need for the crafting bag.

In other threads I've tried to illustrate the problem and get a response (but I didn't clickbait it quite enough).

Feel free to count all the different crafting materials in game. It's ridiculous and could easily be culled of 300+ mats that serve little to no purpose at all.

zaria

Heyodude wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag as the server at this point in time stores and calculates all the data even when profiles are offline, it tracks where the character model is positioned and their overall inventory even if the profile has been inactive for years. So that means KittenSlayr666 who rage quit cyrodil after a failed raid on fort ash is still being accounted for even after 3 years of inactivity every single time an account loads into cyrodil. Could have to contribute to memory leaks, im not a professional though.

They have a quote on quote "cold storage" that these habitual inactive accounts will be placed in following the audit that is supposed to take place this year. I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter. Which is the embodiement of useless data. Just a limit cap would be leagues better, it helps memory usage and loading as with a limited stock pile you can optimise around actual figures. Rather than handing over infinite amounts inventory space and hoping that your server can handle the figurative numbers that can and do exceed ESO's.

This does not make much sense outside of in one case, an database runs slower who more data is stored on it.
searches goes slower if its lots of records in them and yes inactive users are still in database.

Moving accounts to cold storage will however be much of the same work as doing account transfer. Move users data to another server. A bit easier as they will not move all data, probably just inventory and achievements.

However number of items in crafting bag is not important as its just an number if its 1 or a billion don't matter for server as it only stores an integer. Nor does new styles affect the server, style is just an id referring to the motif or outfit.
More styles affect client performance as it has to load more model and textures.

Nor are users still active in zone after logout, most users log out in a few numbers of towns, you would see significantly more issues in popular towns than zones few log off in.

Memory leak is an client issue. Servers might have memory leak to but that would reset on maintenance.

Androconium

Heyodude wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

As far as the food goes... The ration just makes it bland, no flavor.

Literally. No. Flavor.

Puns aside, I doubt recipes and mats are contributing anything other than overflowing craft bags and banks. They're the least of the worries for server load.

Actually ZOS has admitted that the sheer number of unused assets in the game is a major problem for lag as the server at this point in time stores and calculates all the data even when profiles are offline, it tracks where the character model is positioned and their overall inventory even if the profile has been inactive for years. So that means KittenSlayr666 who rage quit cyrodil after a failed raid on fort ash is still being accounted for even after 3 years of inactivity every single time an account loads into cyrodil. Could have to contribute to memory leaks, im not a professional though.

They have a quote on quote "cold storage" that these habitual inactive accounts will be placed in following the audit that is supposed to take place this year. I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter. Which is the embodiement of useless data. Just a limit cap would be leagues better, it helps memory usage and loading as with a limited stock pile you can optimise around actual figures. Rather than handing over infinite amounts inventory space and hoping that your server can handle the figurative numbers that can and do exceed ESO's.

Please cite your source for this statement. A link would be handy.

JKorr

Heyodude wrote: »

How many lemons do you have in your crafting bag?

WRONG! the answer is too many BILL! crafting and food items should be made way simpler following the same vein of soul gems

Killing overland animals and looting their corpse should drop a ration.

1 ration can make any green recipe
2 rations can make any blue recipe
2 rations and a frost mirriam should make any purple recipe
2 rations and a roe should make any gold recipe

get rid of all the different recipes that do the same exact thing, make 1 recipe that does the thing and have it scale to the players level
cap the amount of rations any one account can hold @ 1000 units now your servers dont have to load in 10s of millions of unused lemons, food becomes streamlined and uncomplicated, you're welcome.

How many of you like that sub 160 cp gear requires about 50ish differing crafting items that are just regulated to crafting bag purgatory taking up unnecessary server space creating unnecessary loading times after a character reaches cp 150?

Put your hand down Bill and take the sharpie away from your nostrils!

theres zero reason to have anything other than Ruby mats in the game if it works on a 1:1 ratio

1 level equals 1 more mat
lvl 40 should require 40 ruby mats and so forth

seeing as cp 150 to 160 crafting is the only sane metric ZoS has seen fit to overhaul into an insane memory crafting system they should rework the entire games crafting system to do just that, be sane. cap the amount of materials the crafting bag can hold by, lets just say 10000 materials, to keep the hoarders and their cats happy. And when the hoarders reach that limit and begin complaining, ZOS you say, "Tough sh** Bill! vendor trash some of those redundant mats you cant conceivably find a use for and continue your imbibing in your mentally unhealthy habits... BILL!

(disclaimer, all depictions of characters and events used in this program are purely fictional and completely coincidental... BILL! so stop whining.)

You should be thrilled they already simplified and revamped provisioning. It used to have a LOT more ingredients. You didn't just have "flour", you had "baker's flour" or "cake flour" or "milled flour" or "Imperial flour"..... Nice chart of how it used to be: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/74278/provisioning-ingredients-quick-reference

Kiralyn2000

Cave Johnson wrote:

I’ve been thinking. When life gives you lemons? Don’t make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought is could give me lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man who’s going to burn your house down! With the lemons! I’m going to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

Yeah!

KerinKor

Heyodude wrote: »

I would beg to consider this only being half of the problem when I know a player who shall be named bill but is entirely fictional as far youre concerned and he or she is holding onto 2.5 million units of refined pewter..

If that's true you know a mining bot, no way would a 'legit' player accumulate that quantity of mined material since it was added into the game .. if you didn't report that player then you're part of the problem.

Androconium

I would like to confess that I have no idea what database product ZOS is using here; nor do I understand how they've used it to implement ESO.

This whole discussion is just speculation, based on no identifiable knowledge.

Androconium

JKorr wrote: »

<snip>

You should be thrilled they already simplified and revamped provisioning. It used to have a LOT more ingredients. You didn't just have "flour", you had "baker's flour" or "cake flour" or "milled flour" or "Imperial flour"..... Nice chart of how it used to be: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/74278/provisioning-ingredients-quick-reference

OMG. That is sincerely frightening.

It now explains why I can't harvest Berves Juice or Frost Miriam.
On the off-chance that I can, I'd really like to know where from...

AlnilamE

My provisioner did not learn hundreds of recipes so that her siblings could eat MREs.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They have avoided this issue, likely because of how it requires the need for the crafting bag.

In other threads I've tried to illustrate the problem and get a response (but I didn't clickbait it quite enough).

Feel free to count all the different crafting materials in game. It's ridiculous and could easily be culled of 300+ mats that serve little to no purpose at all.

They should probably streamline clothier, blacksmith and woodworking mats by reducing it to the same number of categories as jewelry crafting (and alchemy solvents as well while they are at it.)

Nestor

Androconium wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

<snip>

You should be thrilled they already simplified and revamped provisioning. It used to have a LOT more ingredients. You didn't just have "flour", you had "baker's flour" or "cake flour" or "milled flour" or "Imperial flour"..... Nice chart of how it used to be: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/74278/provisioning-ingredients-quick-reference

OMG. That is sincerely frightening.

It now explains why I can't harvest Berves Juice or Frost Miriam.
On the off-chance that I can, I'd really like to know where from...

@Androconium

Those two ingredients come from two sources only, Hirelings and Rewards from Provisioning writs. It's easy level alts in Provisioning up to the level needed to unlock the Tier 3 Hireling. Tier 3 simply so have a Hireling mail at least once a day on logging in

Jayne_Doe

I do agree that the crafting system could use some streamlining in terms of the various types of mats - such as removing the CP1-150 mats or going with a tiered system that mirrors JC (as mentioned above).

Even streamlining provisioning further so that there is only one stamina, magicka, and health recipe at each tier instead of 3, for example. But simplifying it to only one ingredient, plus 3 improvement ingredients would be far too boring for crafters. Part of the fun for crafters is obtaining all of the various recipes, even if we'll never use them. Collecting all the motifs, even if we'll never use them.

But, a rework of the various tiers when it comes to provisioning and decreasing the number of recipes per tier would be ok and then streamlining the necessary ingredients. I think there are far too many mats in this game which makes the crafting bag virtually a necessity for any serious crafter. Just getting rid of parts of style mats, such as malachite shards, would help, so that we don't have to hold both refined and unrefined versions of some of the style mats.

Even enchanting could use an overhaul as it utilizes more tiers than the other crafts, i.e. 1-10, 5-15, 10-20, etc.

TL:DR - Crafting could use some streamlining, but not oversimplification.

Ashtaris

Androconium wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

<snip>

You should be thrilled they already simplified and revamped provisioning. It used to have a LOT more ingredients. You didn't just have "flour", you had "baker's flour" or "cake flour" or "milled flour" or "Imperial flour"..... Nice chart of how it used to be: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/74278/provisioning-ingredients-quick-reference

OMG. That is sincerely frightening.

It now explains why I can't harvest Berves Juice or Frost Miriam.
On the off-chance that I can, I'd really like to know where from...

Berves Juice or Frost Miriam comes from doing the Provisioning crafting wrtis, mainly for those who are leveled in the craft. And they occasionally come from the hirelings.

Skwor

WolfingHour wrote: »

It's... It's like you actually believe each player owned lemon has its own unique database record.

That not how that works. That not how *any* of that works.

Actually if I recall correctly it is. To prevent duping Zen implemented a unique item identifier for everything. Each asset gets a unique number

No_Division

its more cost effective to just keep on hand the mats you regularly use and farm/buy the ones you need at a future date.

For example, I got rid of ESO plus, and keep in my bank cp160 craft mats for daily writes/set upgrades, the main 2 food items, and basically any set I used/use that is still useful. All my other mats are in the housing boxes and my mules.

This reminds me I need to repurge; 1k lemons I need to sell lol.