Faction night capping...fine as is?

Daxtacy

Hey all, i just wanted to write up a discussion about something that i've noticed recently and see what the opinion of others are about it. Now i live in NZ and like the Aussies, Japanese and anyone else in the OCE region, have to play on the NA server. The prime time over here is the dead of night over in NA, but for some reason only AD has a population in Cyrodil at this time. Theres literally like 5 people in EP or DC most nights.
https://imgur.com/a/ouLdAGt
What i've noticed is that consistently AD will get on and cap everything during the "off hours" because theres literally noone online to defend it, then come "prime time" the other 2 factions will grind back what they lost overnight against a full pop AD. It seems somewhat broken to me that a single faction can gain a large advantage over the other 2 in a pvp game mode via pve and lack of server population.

Don't get me wrong, i understand that these guys are just playing during their prime time like me. I don't think that players should be penalised, i do however think that there needs to be a change on how points are calulated during the "off hours" though.

I think ideally, point gain in the "off hours" should reflect the efforts of each faction during the "prime time" each day when everyone is actually pvping. Resource and keeps flip quite often during "prime time" depending on where they are. I think that during the "off hours" the points each keep/resource are worth in total should be based on how long it was held on average that day.

So for example instead of a resource/keep being night capped and then sitting there until the next morning generating points because there is no population, it would then generate points upto the determined cap based on what exactly it was and the average time it was held that day. It then wouldn't generate any more points until it was either flipped or there was a daily reset that occured.


Thoughts?

Royaji

"bUT iT Is a 24 hOuRs GAme"

xylena_lazarow

The current Kaal map on NA/PC as of this post, 6:45am CST for me. Note the hammer for insult to injury.

xylena_lazarow

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

frostz417

Remove the locks because locks made night capping worse. But PvP role play zerglings are too deluded to realize that.
Just sayin..

Hashtag_

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

xylena_lazarow

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

idk

Night capping in a 24/7 game played by people from across the world is a myth fabricated by people who think Cyrodiil is designed to be competitive PvP. I saw someone actually attempt to equate it to esports.

idk

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

xylena_lazarow

idk wrote: »

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

I'm telling them to stop stacking one faction.

VaranisArano

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

Judging by what happened when we had no faction locks, none of that "swapping for better competitive balance" made a lick of difference with nightcapping. We had the exact same complaints then.

Its just what happens on a 24-hr campaign that doesn't weight score by population.

ZOS could change nightcapping by changing the scoring system. But adding or removing faction locks doesnt do anything to substantially prevent nightcapping because we had the exact same problems on PC/NA Vivec (minus Volendrung, obviously).

xylena_lazarow

VaranisArano wrote: »

Judging by what happened when we had no faction locks, none of that "swapping for better competitive balance" made a lick of difference with nightcapping. We had the exact same complaints then.

You're right, but it was at least theoretically possible. Now it's not even possible.

idk

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

idk wrote: »

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

I'm telling them to stop stacking one faction.

You are telling who to stop stacking one faction? If it is the players I do not think they care what this thread says and pretty sure most will never even see this thread.

I think some have a delusion that Cyrodiil was designed to be competitive. There is no mechanics to make sure the campaign is balanced at any point. Even the pop cap is not for balance. It is for performance as that is the reason it has been reduced multiple times since the game was released.

The only reason for people to get upset that there are some who play during hours that differ form theirs is they think Cyrodiil is supposed to be a truly competitive PvP experience.

Daxtacy

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

VaranisArano

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Judging by what happened when we had no faction locks, none of that "swapping for better competitive balance" made a lick of difference with nightcapping. We had the exact same complaints then.

You're right, but it was at least theoretically possible. Now it's not even possible.

Sure, the option to swap to the less-populated/most populated side is gone.

But for anyone who actually wants ZOS to deal with the problem of night-capping, faction lock is a red herring. Having it/not having it doesnt cause the population and score differentials that happen during low pop times because nightcapping has been a thing more or else since Cyrodiil started.

Change faction lock back and nightcapping will continue to be a problem.

An actual fix is going to require changing scoring or population...assuming ZOS wants to do so.

idk

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

VaranisArano

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

See, I have the opposite impression: that nightcapping threads cropped up periodically when we didnt have faction lock and that the same old ideas about how to fix it were bandied around.

xylena_lazarow

idk wrote: »

I think some have a delusion that Cyrodiil was designed to be competitive. There is no mechanics to make sure the campaign is balanced at any point. Even the pop cap is not for balance. It is for performance as that is the reason it has been reduced multiple times since the game was released.

The only reason for people to get upset that there are some who play during hours that differ form theirs is they think Cyrodiil is supposed to be a truly competitive PvP experience.

I'm pretty sure this was not intended either, otherwise we'd still have "buff servers."

Your attitude ultimately hurts other off-hours players the most, the ones that want to play for either of the underdogs.

Aaluvien

idk wrote: »

Night capping in a 24/7 game played by people from across the world is a myth fabricated by people who think Cyrodiil is designed to be competitive PvP. I saw someone actually attempt to equate it to esports.

Hardly a "myth".

The crux of the problem is that during the North American night capping, that player base is unwilling to self-balance the population. This occurred prior to the recent campaign locks and the locks exacerbate the problem by tying their hands.

From the oceanic player's viewpoint, there is no 'night capping' since the server population is large enough and, relatively, equally distributed during those hours to check against long periods of one faction "running the map" and holding it. Therefore, no regular and predictable massive score movements.

So, unless the players self correct the issue (which they have proven they will not and recently can't due to campaign locks) then you're left with a relatively meaningless scoring system as it's currently structured since the majority of players have to deal with wild swings in the score nightly (during which the vast minority are online) that reflect little-to-no reality of the majority's actions.

(((Myth Busted)))

SirAndy

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

This is the correct answer ^^^

SirAndy

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think some have a delusion that Cyrodiil was designed to be competitive. There is no mechanics to make sure the campaign is balanced at any point. Even the pop cap is not for balance. It is for performance as that is the reason it has been reduced multiple times since the game was released.
The only reason for people to get upset that there are some who play during hours that differ form theirs is they think Cyrodiil is supposed to be a truly competitive PvP experience.

I'm pretty sure this was not intended either, otherwise we'd still have "buff servers."
Your attitude ultimately hurts other off-hours players the most, the ones that want to play for either of the underdogs.

Aren't you the same guy that also posted that *nobody* is playing that campaign when you are asleep?

Last time i checked, three full bars isn't exactly "nobody" ...

Prince_of_all_Pugs

This may get down voted to hell but you have to understand , AD has always had a larger oceanic presence during late night and ad needs the night capping to equalize the score a bit more. Without the night capping, AD would completely falter and be 3rd place every single time because of our low quality troops. If ad were to be in 3rd place all the time , they could quit cyrodiil all together and then We’re would the pvp go? Y’all have to understand how badly ad gets farmed on NA PC, the poor ad tolerate it because of those sweet campaign rewards at the end.

Ranger209

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

Until the next campaign. Feel free to do so at that time.

Shanehere

I feel bad for the players whose prime times are at night, I'm sure many of them are bored and are just looking for fights. I think this is the reason why the faction lock is such a hindrance, as these players who are playing on AD could switch and fight one another, maybe make it so that you cannot gain individual AP on the leaderboards if you're claimed on another alliance, but at least have the option to switch teams to help the losing alliance at the time and provide a little resistance and an opportunity for a fight. It might not fix the problem, but at least the option is there.

I think making the point gain for holding resources and keeps should also be less for an alliance that holds enemy keeps that have a low population. That way even if they are gaining on the campaign score it isn't by the regular amount that they might get during the day when the populations are more even.

I think putting any sort of score cap during "off-hours" gives the players during the time a feeling of having a limit at what they can contribute, whereas just decreasing the amount of points they can gain based on their opposition at that time is at least a good representation of the work they put in to taking those keeps and resources. It's also important to mention that "prime times" change based on the week day, going much later in the night on the weekends than during the week, so having ZOS set specific time slots for score caps based on activity during days of the week can get complicated.

VaranisArano

SirAndy wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Also note that any AD players wishing to switch to EP or DC for better competitive balance during this time window are prevented from doing so by Faction Locks.

This is the correct answer ^^^

*There were no nightcappers prior to the return of faction locks.*

*We have always been at war with Eastasia.*

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

See, I have the opposite impression: that nightcapping threads cropped up periodically when we didnt have faction lock and that the same old ideas about how to fix it were bandied around.

Very odd comment to my previous post. I did not say or even suggest these threads did not pop up before. I even stated very clearly these threads have popped up for ages. I merely inferred they seem to be more now.

idk

In fact there has been discussion about "night time" activity since the first year of the game when every campaign was faction locked. So no. I know much better than to suggest these threads never happened before last quarter, though it has been more recent years people have complained about it because they seem to think Cyrodiil was intended to be competitive and balanced PvP.

Daxtacy

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

You're talking about specifically an OCE server, I never suggested that. I said a west coast NA server. You see the only reason why our ping is HORRIBLE is because the closest server is in east NA.
Lol it is entirely related to the topic because were talking about a different regions prime time effecting the campaign because its population is stacked almost entirely into one faction, said regions prime time is in the servers off time hence night cappers.

Considering the recent problems ESO is having is due to server stresses it would it really be asking so much to get a west coast server?

Please explain how giving the lowest pop faction more points when they're not playing is anything but a measure of balance to prevent one team falling so far behind it's impossible to win or even stay competitive.

And in terms of faction lock, I'm almost 100% certain that if it wasnt in place the only thing those AD would do is change team to recap as another faction only to ultimately swap back to AD and make sure they ended up with everything in the end. So no, I dont think faction lock should be reversed.

Some of you seem to be under the impression that OCE prime time is evenly split in terms of faction. no, no it is not....and that's what I find annoying, it's only AD that are consistently on in large numbers.

Dominion_Nightblade

I do kinda miss when my late night playing time was more balanced. That is when I play the most and last night got boring early after the other factions logged for the most part. I would never play any alliance besides AD. But I do wish the non laggy night time would find a way to be more balanced.

VaranisArano

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Daxtacy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Imagine thinking what happens during primetime effects the campaign.

The most active and competitive time window should affect the campaign.

Stacking one faction while the other two are offline should not.

So you want Zos to tell Japan, AUS and others they money is not very important to them? To tell that ER surgeon who spends tons in the crown store or that person who works shift work in manufacturing that when he works evenings he should cancel his sub?

That is exactly what you are inferring and I am pretty sure Zos has enough business sense to know it is not a smart idea for them to consider.

If zos really cared about Australia New zealand and Japan they would open a west coast NA server, but how likely is that to happen?

Changing the scoring wouldnt impact players at all. Let's not forget that this is a game, and for a game to be fair it has to have some balance. If Zos didnt want there to be any balance there wouldnt be a low pop bonus would there.

Not necessarily correct but it is also not very relevant to the topic. I can easy say that because Zos specifically launced Japan on the NA server. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25713 It was likely not economically viable to launch a Japanese server and Zos may have the same finding for AUS/NZ. Since SWTOR closed their AUS/NZ servers two mergers ago it would seem that market may be little to small to support a mega server.

So what you try to call not caring is more likely related to business viability.

You are also incorrect about the lo pop bonus. It is there to encourage players to enter Cyrodiil but does absolutely nothing to ensure balance.

Edit: further, these threads seem to be popping up more now that faction locks are in place. Yes, the came about from time to time for ages. It just seems more threads are being created now. Just find it curious.

See, I have the opposite impression: that nightcapping threads cropped up periodically when we didnt have faction lock and that the same old ideas about how to fix it were bandied around.

Very odd comment to my previous post. I did not say or even suggest these threads did not pop up before. I even stated very clearly these threads have popped up for ages. I merely inferred they seem to be more now.

What I meant is that rather than me seeing "more" threads now, I think the current spate of complaints is more of the same as we had before faction locks - a periodic concern of PVPers that's come up in the past and will come up again in the future because ZOS isnt willing to overhaul scoring for low pop times.

Ackwalan

There is only one way to "fix" low population capping. Since ZOS can't force people when to play or which team to play for, freezing the score when population is at "X" is the only way.