Why is there no counter to Major Mending?

Massacre_Wurm

Royaji wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Who said there is should be one ? Who said each defensive buff should have direct and equal counter ?
If i go full defence i want to see it actually work. Not just be countered by full offence. Because this is makes no sense.

Well actually full offense should be at the very least equal and ideally a bit stronger than full defense. Because people are supposed to die, you know. It's just good game design. Tank meta is no fun.

And in case of mending a direct counter makes a lot of sense. Generally lowering health bar volatility is a good idea because right now we are stuck in this vicious cycle. Since you can heal to full from 20% so quickly everyone wants more and more burst to secure a kill. Which leads to people building more and more tanky to prevent being one-shotted by burst which again incentives more burst.

Well actually no. If you going full defence you cannot kill anybody. And being killed by full offence on top of that making the whole thing useless. And tank meta is fun. I dont want to play Counter Strike. There is already game fot that.


If we need to lower something - its damage. We have waaay to much damage in no cp campains and bgs. Winning should require tactical thinking and smart recource managment. Not just stun , pew -pew.

Royaji

danara wrote: »

snip but what you forget is when you are in a pvp area your healing done is reduce by 50%, lets call that "Major HealersA**Destruction".

Tell me, where is the counter to that ?

We are not going elementary here, are we? Battle Spirit reduces both healing and damage by 50%.

danara

@jbjondeaueb17_ESO, there is 2 stats that increase your healing power (not speaking about CP) : spell damage and max magicka

That also why argonian is considered as one of the worst class Right Now, because the % increase healing they have from passives is less effective than 129 spell damage.. 🤔 Maybe need à rework to be as effective as other racial passive ? Even the potion passive is not good enough to balance with that lack of power. Btw this % (cant remember if it is 4 or 6) has to be multiplizd by 2 in order to be as effective as 129 Spell damage, Just sayin...

Royaji

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Who said there is should be one ? Who said each defensive buff should have direct and equal counter ?
If i go full defence i want to see it actually work. Not just be countered by full offence. Because this is makes no sense.

Well actually full offense should be at the very least equal and ideally a bit stronger than full defense. Because people are supposed to die, you know. It's just good game design. Tank meta is no fun.

And in case of mending a direct counter makes a lot of sense. Generally lowering health bar volatility is a good idea because right now we are stuck in this vicious cycle. Since you can heal to full from 20% so quickly everyone wants more and more burst to secure a kill. Which leads to people building more and more tanky to prevent being one-shotted by burst which again incentives more burst.

Well actually no. If you going full defence you cannot kill anybody. And being killed by full offence on top of that making the whole thing useless. And tank meta is fun. I dont want to play Counter Strike. There is already game fot that.


If we need to lower something - its damage. We have waaay to much damage in no cp campains and bgs. Winning should require tactical thinking and smart recource managment. Not just stun , pew -pew.

Yeah, because tank meta is so fun everything that enables it got the nerf hammer this patch.

And I said it in my post that both damage and healing need to be lowered more in PvP. That's what I meant by less volatility in healthbars.

Vildebill

Hahaha fantastic popcorn eating thread. "But have you heard of defile?"

I agree with you OP, the only thing I've seen that's close to a counter is heal absorption, and it's not percentage based on that set I'm thinking of (soldier of anguish).

cheemers

Vildebill wrote: »

Hahaha fantastic popcorn eating thread. "But have you heard of defile?"

I agree with you OP, the only thing I've seen that's close to a counter is heal absorption, and it's not percentage based on that set I'm thinking of (soldier of anguish).

Yep it's getting difficult to separate the cretins from the trolls

Wing

*its called battle spirit, its a 50% cut, and its applied for free*

defile has more of an effect then things like vitality or mending because of the way negative effects are taken into account after the fact, it has been this way forever.

for instance

to be extreme, lets add up nearly all healing bonuses, and then apply 1 major defile (with no buffs)

base healing
100%
vitality = 30% and 8%
mending = 25% and 8%
blessed = 15%
quick recovery =15%

so 201% healing

after major defile -30%

140%

it ate over 60% of the bonuses, so both major mending and major vitality plus a little extra

lets add in minor as well -15%

110%

alright it took away 90%, so almost none of your bonuses matter

this is without befoul CP, if we take into account CP, major and minor defile negate maxed out blessed, quick recovery, all vitality buffs, and all mending buffs, COMBINED and continue to reduce your healing to well under 100%

2 debuffs

counter 4 buffs and then some

and still tears?

by the way this is before battle spirit -50% flat cut, so 201, cut back to ~100% thanks to battle spirit, then cut 30% thanks to major defile (were at 70%, keeping up?) then cut that by 15% due to minor defile, we end up at around ~60% healing, that's without befoul CP

tid bit of history, in befouls prime it provided a 55% buff to defile, this meant major defile alone was hitting for ~46% and minor was ~23%, the combination of the two was around ~70% total healing reduction, taking our first total of 201% healing done, apply the 50% battle spirit cut, you drop to 101% healing, after defiles that was down to ~30% original healing, and if you DIDNT have any healing bonuses you were around 15% of your original healing. (also werewolf defile was 40% back when, 10% stronger then base, so yeah)

15%

and all that BS is why pvp healers stack regen so they can just cast more heals then trying to make those heals stronger, its just not worth it.

CaliMade

Wing wrote: »

defile has more of an effect then things like vitality or mending because of the way negative effects are taken into account after the fact, it has been this way forever.

for instance

to be extreme, lets add up nearly all healing bonuses, and then apply 1 major defile (with no buffs)

base healing
100%
vitality = 30% and 8%
mending = 25% and 8%
blessed = 15%
quick recovery =15%

so 201% healing

after major defile -30%

140%

it ate over 60% of the bonuses, so both major mending and major vitality plus a little extra

lets add in minor as well -15%

110%

alright it took away 90%, so almost none of your bonuses matter

this is without befoul CP, if we take into account CP, major and minor defile negate maxed out blessed, quick recovery, all vitality buffs, and all mending buffs, COMBINED and continue to reduce your healing to well under 100%

2 debuffs

counter 4 buffs and then some

and still tears?

This guy knows

TriangularChicken

Wing wrote: »

*its called battle spirit, its applied for free*

defile has more of an effect then things like vitality or mending because of the way negative effects are taken into account after the fact, it has been this way forever.

for instance

to be extreme, lets add up nearly all healing bonuses, and then apply 1 major defile (with no buffs)

base healing
100%
vitality = 30% and 8%
mending = 25% and 8%
blessed = 15%
quick recovery =15%

so 201% healing

after major defile -30%

140%

it ate over 60% of the bonuses, so both major mending and major vitality plus a little extra

lets add in minor as well -15%

110%

alright it took away 90%, so almost none of your bonuses matter

this is without befoul CP, if we take into account CP, major and minor defile negate maxed out blessed, quick recovery, all vitality buffs, and all mending buffs, COMBINED and continue to reduce your healing to well under 100%

2 debuffs

counter 4 buffs and then some

and still tears?

by the way this is before battle spirit -50% flat cut, so 201, cut back to ~100% thanks to battle spirit, then cut 30% thanks to major defile (were at 70%, keeping up?) then cut that by 15% due to minor defile, we end up at around ~60% healing, that's without befoul CP

tid bit of history, in befouls prime it provided a 55% buff to defile, this meant major defile alone was hitting for ~46% and minor was ~23%, the combination of the two was around ~70% total healing reduction, taking our first total of 201% healing done, apply the 50% battle spirit cut, you drop to 101% healing, after defiles that was down to ~30% original healing, and if you DIDNT have any healing bonuses you were around 15% of your original healing. (also werewolf defile was 40% back when, 10% stronger then base, so yeah)

15%

and all that BS is why pvp healers stack regen so they can just cast more heals then trying to make those heals stronger, its just not worth it.

I want to see how they're going to counter this argument haha.


..and to the potato crying about tank meta: go play no cp and see for yourself how "tanky" ppl are...the only tanks in no cp are the bloodspawn s&b dk tanks that use meditate and shield ultimate in combination with some other stuff...most of the time they are harmless tho. everything else is more or less easy to kill.

CP fights are a different topic - I agree that people are way too tanky in the CP campaign, but that also means that the problem isn't with major mending "not having a counter"...it means it's cps fault...

cheemers

@ Wing

You've slightly missed the point mate - you are still talking about Healing Received. I want a viable counter to Healing Done. There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing, gimmicky heal absorption, or silencing with ultimates that will stop the healer from making their teammates unkillable. A defiled healer can still bring their teammates up from near death in an instant. This is why I suggested incorporating something like negative Mending on a nightblade's toolkit to give them an incentive to target the back line in large fightsrather than being glorified gankers for squishy players.

Gronk

try the siphon cp perk

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@cheemers there are 4 ways to apply major defile from skills in AOE situations, dark flare, corrupting pollen, blighted blastbone and dragonknight standard .

Vlad9425

Defile literally covers this. Problem is that ZOS have removed defile from some abilities / sets which makes no sense to me.

Kadoin

Most people cannot even access major vitality without major sacrifice. Maybe that's why it doesn't have a counter.I know on my "healer" I never have that buff on in PvP and there is no way I will slot a potion just to get it.

Wing

cheemers wrote: »

@ Wing

You've slightly missed the point mate - you are still talking about Healing Received. I want a viable counter to Healing Done. There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing, gimmicky heal absorption, or silencing with ultimates that will stop the healer from making their teammates unkillable. A defiled healer can still bring their teammates up from near death in an instant. This is why I suggested incorporating something like negative Mending on a nightblade's toolkit to give them an incentive to target the back line in large fightsrather than being glorified gankers for squishy players.

let me first say I get what your saying.

instead of targeting the. . .well, "target" of the heals with a debuff, you want to specifically apply a debuff or effect that instead reduces their healing done. effectively a version of maim for healing.

the problem as I see it is that there already exists a number of tools for dealing with healers or their heals
-death
-silence
-negligible sources of healing absorption deliberately made too clunky to use in (justified) fear that it would be OP as ****
-defile (be that targeted sources or AoE sources)
-resource drain (kind of overlooked) via poisons or passives.
-etc.


let me also say,

I get the frustration, you target the healer, they cry and their friends dogpile you, you target the friends, the healers make anything you do irrelevant. same with troll tanks, its possible for people to just not die if they don't want to.

none of it is fun or engaging gameplay.

however this problem is more of a side effect of just open world or group pvp, and less of a specific mechanic, and to be fair this coming update is targeting ALOT of various things that will help mitigate this, aoe heal nerfs, more emphasis on strong single target heals rather then strong heals that just happen to hit everyone in a 15m radius around you "just because" also the aoe heals or more location based, making them vulnerable to ground based debuffs (corrupting pollen) and persistent aoe ults.

so yeah

I get it, I get what your looking to achieve and the idea behind it, healing maim. I just think in the grand scheme of things its a complex idea that would throw off a lot of balance and design that the game has struggled to achieve even now.

danara

@cheemers you make no efforts.

"I want to rzduce the healing done not received."

First strat you learn in pvp : focus the healer, by focusing the healer you apply all the HEALING RECEIVED DEBUFF, oh wait ! Now he cant heal himself correctly ! Healer is dead, reduction to healing done = 100% gg wp

Now if with your 3 mates in BG you cant kill one healer, maybe that you guys are too tanky, and need to rethink your build to invest more in dps and less in survivabilty.

You have a Guy Who take so much time to give you fact with numbers and you still deny it ? ( @Wing awesome answer Btw !)

Now Who is the troll ? Us ? Or you ? Think about it

nafensoriel

Royaji wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Ok, at this point it's not even funny. Did you read anything from this thread at all?

It's actually funny as all heck.

Though serious time. Wing has pretty much explained it, in detail, as to why your argument really isn't a factor. The other side of the coin you seem to be forgetting is designed logic. If every player could fully counter every other player they encounter there is no point for group play. Why bring a healer if it will not give an increased "time to live" against an enemy because every bit of healing they can do can be nullified by one person. In every possible case, it would be "bring more DPS" and fights would boil down to who hit the ultimate button first after applying debuffs.

Sometimes it's worse for overall balance if everything has a counter. In this case, the counters exist.. and they work wonderfully well.. but sometimes are hard to sync up due to source wonk.

Massacre_Wurm

Royaji wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Who said there is should be one ? Who said each defensive buff should have direct and equal counter ?
If i go full defence i want to see it actually work. Not just be countered by full offence. Because this is makes no sense.

Well actually full offense should be at the very least equal and ideally a bit stronger than full defense. Because people are supposed to die, you know. It's just good game design. Tank meta is no fun.

And in case of mending a direct counter makes a lot of sense. Generally lowering health bar volatility is a good idea because right now we are stuck in this vicious cycle. Since you can heal to full from 20% so quickly everyone wants more and more burst to secure a kill. Which leads to people building more and more tanky to prevent being one-shotted by burst which again incentives more burst.

Well actually no. If you going full defence you cannot kill anybody. And being killed by full offence on top of that making the whole thing useless. And tank meta is fun. I dont want to play Counter Strike. There is already game fot that.


If we need to lower something - its damage. We have waaay to much damage in no cp campains and bgs. Winning should require tactical thinking and smart recource managment. Not just stun , pew -pew.

Yeah, because tank meta is so fun everything that enables it got the nerf hammer this patch.

And I said it in my post that both damage and healing need to be lowered more in PvP. That's what I meant by less volatility in healthbars.

Yes , because nerfing something is indicator of fun/not fun. And no , not everything was nerfed. By the way - main problem wasnt defence. It was defence AND damage using bash-cancel. Thats the whole different story.

Wing wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

@ Wing

You've slightly missed the point mate - you are still talking about Healing Received. I want a viable counter to Healing Done. There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing, gimmicky heal absorption, or silencing with ultimates that will stop the healer from making their teammates unkillable. A defiled healer can still bring their teammates up from near death in an instant. This is why I suggested incorporating something like negative Mending on a nightblade's toolkit to give them an incentive to target the back line in large fightsrather than being glorified gankers for squishy players.

I get the frustration, you target the healer, they cry and their friends dogpile you, you target the friends, the healers make anything you do irrelevant. same with troll tanks, its possible for people to just not die if they don't want to.

none of it is fun or engaging gameplay.

This is your opinion. I like playing dedicated support builds. If i have no damage just heals and tankiness why you should be able to do something ALONE to begin with ? I am making a bet on teamplay. If our teamplay is bad its easy 3vs4 for you. If not - you should bring some teamplay on your side in order to beat ours.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

cheemers wrote: »

@ Wing

You've slightly missed the point mate - you are still talking about Healing Received. I want a viable counter to Healing Done. There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing, gimmicky heal absorption, or silencing with ultimates that will stop the healer from making their teammates unkillable. A defiled healer can still bring their teammates up from near death in an instant. This is why I suggested incorporating something like negative Mending on a nightblade's toolkit to give them an incentive to target the back line in large fightsrather than being glorified gankers for squishy players.

If it was incorporated, there's no reason it should be in the NB toolkit, seems to me that the opposite of healing (which means staying alive) should be a in the Necromancer toolkit.

StaticWave

cheemers wrote: »

@ Wing

You've slightly missed the point mate - you are still talking about Healing Received. I want a viable counter to Healing Done. There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing, gimmicky heal absorption, or silencing with ultimates that will stop the healer from making their teammates unkillable. A defiled healer can still bring their teammates up from near death in an instant. This is why I suggested incorporating something like negative Mending on a nightblade's toolkit to give them an incentive to target the back line in large fightsrather than being glorified gankers for squishy players.

cheemers wrote: »

Or minor mending for that matter. I mean the "increase healing done" passive. For example,

Protection has Vulnerability
Maim has Berserk
Vitality has Defile

But nothing for Mending? Tanky players can stack stars into both Blessed and Quick Recovery, and DK can get both mending and vitality from fragmented shield + lingering health pots, but the only reply to this is defile?

Is it meant to be Heal Absorption? Because that is not a viable or functional "debuff" atm, limited to a gimmicky set or expensive potions. There should be a counter to Vitality, something like Major/Minor Suppression that reduces target's healing done by 10-25%. Better yet, put it on Incap / Soul Harvest so NBs actually have a role in group fights, targeting and crippling the squishy back line healers. Right now healing is double stacked without adequate counters.

Firstly, Defile reduces healing taken, not healing received, so it is not a debuff for Vitality.

Secondly, introducing a debuff for Mending would cause more troubles and possibly kill PvP. Here's why:

This is the formula for total healing:

Healing = (1 + HealingDone)(1 + HealingTaken)(1 + HealingReceived)

Basically, healing buffs are additive if they give a similar effect, and multiplicative if they give a different one. Blessed CP increases healing done, so it is additive with mending, while Quick Recovery is additive with Vitality because it increases healing received. Thus, the total healing outside of cyrodiil is:

Healing = (1 + 0.25 + 0.08 + 0.15)(1 + 0)(1 + 0.3 + 0.15 + 0.15) = 236.8% or 136.8% increase

Battle spirit reduces healing received by 50%, thus

Healing = (1 + 0.25 + 0.08 + 0.15)(1+0)(1+0.3 + 0.15 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 162.8% or 62.8% increase

Now let's introduce Major and Minor Defile with 55% in Befoul.

Major Defile = (0.3 x 55%) + 0.3 = 0.465 or 46.5% reduced healing taken

Minor Defile = (0.15 x 55%) + 0.15 = 0.2325 or 23.25% reduced healing taken

Since Defile reduces healing taken, the total healing when affected by this debuff is:

Healing = (1 + 0.25 + 0.08 + 0.15)(1 - 0.465 - 0.2325)(1 + 0.3 + 0.15 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 0.49 or 49%

What can we conclude from these calculations? Well, Battle Spirit reduces your maximum healing from 236.8% to 162.8%. When introduced with Major + Minor Defile with maximum Befoul, the healing is reduced to a mere 49%. A breath of life with a 10000 hp tool tip, when fully buffed with Mending + Vitality + CP, would heal for 23680 hp outside of cyrodiil, 16280 hp with Battle Spirit, and 5100 hp with both Battle Spirit and 70% Defile.

From a 16280 tooltip to a measly 5100 tooltip. Can you see why introducing a debuff for Mending is a bad idea?

But for the sake of the argument, let's assume there is a debuff for Mending. The total healing in cyrodiil when affected by both Major and Minor versions of this debuff would be:

Healing = (1 + 0.25 + 0.08 + 0.15 - 0.25 - 0.08)(1 - 0.465 - 0.2325)(1 + 0.3 + 0.15 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 0.38 or 38%

So a 10000 hp breath of life will only heal for 3800 hp with the new debuffs. A NB using a good build can hit Surprise attack for 4.5k crit...

How would other heals, such as vigor, be affected? Well, a 17000 hp Vigor will only heal for 6460 hp, or 1292 hp per tick. 1 bleed tick cancels that vigor... Don't forget, these healing values are affected by ALL Vitality + Mending + CP buffs, yet they still get reduced by so much. What about classes that don't have access to Mending? They would stand no chance in a fight.

So in conclusion, your idea might sound reasonable, but it would destroy PvP.

danara

@StaticWave *drop the mic*

dsalter

heres an idea for future :

Minor Taint = reduced healing delt by 8%
Major Taint = reduced healing delt by 25%

now you have 2 ways to reduce healing, defile and taint, applying both to a healer would more or less cripple them where as applying say... minor taint to a healer reduces their outgoing while if the target that healer who is tainted tries to heal another player who has minor vitality they'll cancel eachother out and the healer will deal normal healing.

danara

dsalter wrote: »

heres an idea for future :

Minor Taint = reduced healing delt by 8%
Major Taint = reduced healing delt by 25%

now you have 2 ways to reduce healing, defile and taint, applying both to a healer would more or less cripple them where as applying say... minor taint to a healer reduces their outgoing while if the target that healer who is tainted tries to heal another player who has minor vitality they'll cancel eachother out and the healer will deal normal healing.

You should Just look up, there is a very Nice message with a lot of numbers you cant deny

cheemers

@StaticWave

Thanks for the detailed post but again I'm not concerned as much about the healer's ability to heal themselves (healing taken/received whatever) but more importantly their ability to Heal their teammates (Healing Done) which currently has no matching negative debuff to the positive Mending buff. A defiled healer can still heal their entire group with 10k breath of lifes or ritual of rebirth etc, and regardless of how much you've defiled them, there's no way to reduce that healing unless you kill or silence the healer.

danara wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

heres an idea for future :

Minor Taint = reduced healing delt by 8%
Major Taint = reduced healing delt by 25%

now you have 2 ways to reduce healing, defile and taint, applying both to a healer would more or less cripple them where as applying say... minor taint to a healer reduces their outgoing while if the target that healer who is tainted tries to heal another player who has minor vitality they'll cancel eachother out and the healer will deal normal healing.

You should Just look up, there is a very Nice message with a lot of numbers you cant deny

You quote a very useful post but you realise there is an agree button at the bottom of the message which you can press, instead of acting like a glorified groupie / tag along and adding nothing of value to the discussion? You don't need to awkwardly add "drop the mic" to the end of other people's posts

danara

@cheemers,

I mean, im sorry if you disagree, but i find it laughable to see how stubborn you are when People show you there is no point to implement in game the debuff you want with numbers (what i love with numbers is that you cant deny it) but you keep going with "it s not what i am speaking about/what i want"

And yeah maybe "drop the mic" was too much, but you cant disagree how awesome his post was, i m too lazy to write something like that 😂 but im sorry if you feel like i disrespected you, sincerely

Love 😍

ezio45

defile?

also mending really doesnt need a counter, with the like 4s it lasts it kinda sucks already

cheemers

danara wrote: »

@cheemers,

I mean, im sorry if you disagree, but i find it laughable to see how stubborn you are when People show you there is no point to implement in game the debuff you want with numbers (what i love with numbers is that you cant deny it) but you keep going with "it s not what i am speaking about/what i want"

And yeah maybe "drop the mic" was too much, but you cant disagree how awesome his post was, i m too lazy to write something like that 😂 but im sorry if you feel like i disrespected you, sincerely

Love 😍

I agree the numbers support the argument that defile adequately reduces healing taken, but I keep repeating my point that it doesn't cover Healing Done because the fancy number don't address that. I'm glad you're wowed by his long post but I hope you're not too ?lazy or ?dense to understand that his post doesn't address my argument. Thanks for your contribution in any case, love

Reaper_00

cheemers wrote: »

@ Wing
There should be a way to damage a tanky healer's ability to heal their tanky teammates. I can stack a million points into defile and stop the healer from healing themselves up, but there is no option short of outright killing

Isn’t that your answer there? Focus and kill the healer first? That’s the way it works in pretty much every other PVP game with healers and it works in ESO too. It’s how organised groups usually kill my tanky healer.

mairwen85

cheemers wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@cheemers,

I mean, im sorry if you disagree, but i find it laughable to see how stubborn you are when People show you there is no point to implement in game the debuff you want with numbers (what i love with numbers is that you cant deny it) but you keep going with "it s not what i am speaking about/what i want"

And yeah maybe "drop the mic" was too much, but you cant disagree how awesome his post was, i m too lazy to write something like that 😂 but im sorry if you feel like i disrespected you, sincerely

Love 😍

I agree the numbers support the argument that defile adequately reduces healing taken, but I keep repeating my point that it doesn't cover Healing Done because the fancy number don't address that. I'm glad you're wowed by his long post but I hope you're not too ?lazy or ?dense to understand that his post doesn't address my argument. Thanks for your contribution in any case, love

But... major and minor defile...

Before you inevitably respond with a post insulting my intelligence or calling me dense or a troll... just know that I agree I must be dense or lacking in the grey stuff if you can’t understand something, how it relates, even when all information is laid out many times...

StaticWave

cheemers wrote: »

@StaticWave

Thanks for the detailed post but again I'm not concerned as much about the healer's ability to heal themselves (healing taken/received whatever) but more importantly their ability to Heal their teammates (Healing Done) which currently has no matching negative debuff to the positive Mending buff. A defiled healer can still heal their entire group with 10k breath of lifes or ritual of rebirth etc, and regardless of how much you've defiled them, there's no way to reduce that healing unless you kill or silence the healer.

I understand your point, but keep in mind defile also affects healing done, since it’s part of the equation.

Healing after defile = (1 + HealingDone)(1 + HealingTaken - Healing Reduction)(1 + HealingReceived)

You don’t need a debuff for Mending, because defile indirectly affects healing done AND healing received by being multiplicative with both of them. The only way for healing done to not be affected is if healing taken gets thrown out of the equation, but it can’t be.

Healers will do less healing to their teammates when defiled. Introducing debuffs for either mending or vitality is unnecessary. In fact, it would render healing useless on most builds that aren’t specced for healing.