Why is there no counter to Major Mending?

cheemers

Or minor mending for that matter. I mean the "increase healing done" passive. For example,

Protection has Vulnerability
Maim has Berserk
Vitality has Defile

But nothing for Mending? Tanky players can stack stars into both Blessed and Quick Recovery, and DK can get both mending and vitality from fragmented shield + lingering health pots, but the only reply to this is defile?

Is it meant to be Heal Absorption? Because that is not a viable or functional "debuff" atm, limited to a gimmicky set or expensive potions. There should be a counter to Vitality, something like Major/Minor Suppression that reduces target's healing done by 10-25%. Better yet, put it on Incap / Soul Harvest so NBs actually have a role in group fights, targeting and crippling the squishy back line healers. Right now healing is double stacked without adequate counters.

Skinzz

Defile already affects mending.

Rygonix

Healing is already getting enough changes this patch, let's see how they play out before adding even more to the table. But one thing is certain - incap doesn't need any more utility. If you want to add more to it, you'll have to sacrifice something; perhaps the unique 20% damage taken increase?

Aznarb

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

exeeter702

Oh boy................

Royaji

Aznarb wrote: »

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

I mean... he has a point.

TrinityBreaker

One would think that Ruducing target's healing taken by 30% would negate Increases healing done by 25%. But I guess not in your eyes.

cheemers

Aznarb wrote: »

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

Did you read the post? Just like you can defend yourself with 2 buffs, namely protection on yourself and maim on your opponent, they can hit you harder by using berserk on themselves or vulnerability on you. However when it comes to healing you can buff yourself in TWO ways - vitality AND mending - but an opponent can only debuff you with ONE defile.

I guess a 30 sec Google search can't teach reading comprehension...

laissezfaire

Skinzz wrote: »

Defile already affects mending.

Defile is not a direct counter to mending. You would have to defile all people in which the person who has mending buff is healing. A direct counter to mending would be a debuff that reduces healing done.

Kolzki

To be fair the op did say "Vitality has Defile". Mending has... a non existant debuff to healing done

Actually, it's interesting that core healing skills are being nerfed while there is no healing done debuff, with healing skill nerfs impacting pve and the obvious impacts that an opposite of major mending would have on certain pvp play styles.

Aznarb

Royaji wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

I mean... he has a point.

Doesn't change the fact than Defile is a counter to both.
But I agree it doesn't make sense to have the same buff with 2 name enabling a disgusting stacking.
ZoS should just keep one of them.

cheemers

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

One would think that Ruducing target's healing taken by 30% would negate Increases healing done by 25%. But I guess not in your eyes.

No, that negates the 30% healing RECEIVED, not the additional 25% healing DONE. Seriously, is it that difficult?

Massacre_Wurm

Who said there is should be one ? Who said each defensive buff should have direct and equal counter ?
If i go full defence i want to see it actually work. Not just be countered by full offence. Because this is makes no sense.

Skander

Heals are pretty low when massivly defiled already

leepalmer95

Aznarb wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

I mean... he has a point.

Doesn't change the fact than Defile is a counter to both.
But I agree it doesn't make sense to have the same buff with 2 name enabling a disgusting stacking.
ZoS should just keep one of them.

But defile isn't a counter to both, it's a counter to 1 technically.

brandonv516

Does there really need to be a Minor/Major debuff for every buff?

Sorcery, Prophecy, Endurance, Brutality, Savagery, Expedition, Courage - should they all have debuffs?

cheemers

brandonv516 wrote: »

Does there really need to be a Minor/Major debuff for every buff?

Sorcery, Prophecy, Endurance, Brutality, Savagery, Expedition, Courage - should they all have debuffs?

Weak argument. All the specific damage done buffs have a corresponding debuff, and healing should be likewise. Like I've stated multiple times in this thread.

exeeter702

cheemers wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Does there really need to be a Minor/Major debuff for every buff?

Sorcery, Prophecy, Endurance, Brutality, Savagery, Expedition, Courage - should they all have debuffs?

Weak argument. All the specific damage done buffs have a corresponding debuff, and healing should be likewise. Like I've stated multiple times in this thread.

Not necessarily. There would be no comparable scenario in game to that of focusing a healer major and minor defile as well as major and minor psuedo negative vitality debuff. All debuffs operate under to the simple rule that they apply to the target. I think its also worth ntoing that there is no equivalent to silence in game for stamina based builds. 5here doesnt meed to be mind you, but that is kind of the point.

Royaji

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Who said there is should be one ? Who said each defensive buff should have direct and equal counter ?
If i go full defence i want to see it actually work. Not just be countered by full offence. Because this is makes no sense.

Well actually full offense should be at the very least equal and ideally a bit stronger than full defense. Because people are supposed to die, you know. It's just good game design. Tank meta is no fun.

And in case of mending a direct counter makes a lot of sense. Generally lowering health bar volatility is a good idea because right now we are stuck in this vicious cycle. Since you can heal to full from 20% so quickly everyone wants more and more burst to secure a kill. Which leads to people building more and more tanky to prevent being one-shotted by burst which again incentives more burst.

pod88kk

Royaji wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Source : Uesp.net/wiki/

30sec on google..

I mean... he has a point.

Kinda like how all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs

nafensoriel

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Royaji

nafensoriel wrote: »

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Ok, at this point it's not even funny. Did you read anything from this thread at all?

GhostofDatthaw

rEEEEE

ZarkingFrued

Royaji wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Ok, at this point it's not even funny. Did you read anything from this thread at all?

Just because people don't agree with the premise doesnt mean they didn't read the point you guys were trying to make

cheemers

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Ok, at this point it's not even funny. Did you read anything from this thread at all?

Just because people don't agree with the premise doesnt mean they didn't read the point you guys were trying to make

It's not disagreement that I have an issue with but rather plain stupidity. If someone tells me it's fine because there is a MINOR and a MAJOR defile, do I really have to keep reminding them there is also a MAJOR and MINOR MENDING and a MAJOR and MINOR VITALITY? That's 4 BTW for those having some trouble with the letters and numbers. Ignorant off the cuff comments like "Did everyone forget there is a minor defile and major defile" should absolutely be called out.

Ratzkifal

I think OP is looking for this...

Soldier of Anguish
(5 items) Your melee light attacks have a 25% chance to place a ring on the ground that explodes after 1.3 seconds, applying 4800 Heal Absorption to all enemies hit for 4 seconds, negating the next 4800 points of Healing Done. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Use a melee attack on the healer and it reduces healing done.

mairwen85

cheemers wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

Did everyone forget there is a major and minor defile?

Ok, at this point it's not even funny. Did you read anything from this thread at all?

Just because people don't agree with the premise doesnt mean they didn't read the point you guys were trying to make

It's not disagreement that I have an issue with but rather plain stupidity. If someone tells me it's fine because there is a MINOR and a MAJOR defile, do I really have to keep reminding them there is also a MAJOR and MINOR MENDING and a MAJOR and MINOR VITALITY? That's 4 BTW for those having some trouble with the letters and numbers. Ignorant off the cuff comments like "Did everyone forget there is a minor defile and major defile" should absolutely be called out.

But, you do realize there is both major and minor defile, right?

brandonv516

It's really simple. There is a Major and a Minor Defile available.

danara

@cheemers but what you forget is when you are in a pvp area your healing done is reduce by 50%, lets call that "Major HealersA**Destruction".

Tell me, where is the counter to that ? You want to nerf healer ? And they are already useless compare to a guy Who can self heal and still do a lot of damage ?

Btw, i think it is supposed to be normal you cant kill a healer in 1v1, the thing is, he will not be able to kill you either. If he can, it is not a healer, and you Just have to gi... Naaah i ll not say it and make you happy to say "it is the easy answer"

You Just look like this kind of boy "i cant kill this dude, this class has to be op pls nerf "

TheNightflame

Why can you not purge buffs off of enemies in pvp?

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Healing has way less buffs than everything else :
- Blessed only buffs Healing done by 15%, and Quick Recovery healing received by 15%, whereas Befoul can buff Defile(s) by 55%
- Healing benefits less from crit, minor/major Force don't apply to healing for example
- I'm not even sure Berserk buffs healing since it says "damage"