The Case for Class Change in ESO

wolf486

priforce wrote: »

No class changes. I have 17 of 18 fully leveled characters within their own unique aspects to the game. I only do support roles. So you're saying you want my healer to carry pve gear, pvp gear, and tank gear?

If this is about achievements then petition about shared achievements, which is different than shared skill lines. There is a reason why vigor, purge, barrier, and other pve skills are acquired in the hame. It's because support players like myself don't make pvp a priority and it gets us to contribute towards pvp modes.

Same thing for undaunted, many of the skills support roles need are in their so we can participate and help dungeon finders.

It's balanced. I would not mess with it or be in a group that people can easily switch to being healers, suck at it, and then tell me how to play my role - which happens in other MMOs.

So "no" to class changes. Just create a new toon and team up with guildies to level them. It's much more fun that way.

You can still have your 18 characters just as they are now if there was a class change token. It's for people (such as myself) who stop playing a character 'cos I get bored with a class but love the character.

idk

wolf486 wrote: »

priforce wrote: »

No class changes. I have 17 of 18 fully leveled characters within their own unique aspects to the game. I only do support roles. So you're saying you want my healer to carry pve gear, pvp gear, and tank gear?

If this is about achievements then petition about shared achievements, which is different than shared skill lines. There is a reason why vigor, purge, barrier, and other pve skills are acquired in the hame. It's because support players like myself don't make pvp a priority and it gets us to contribute towards pvp modes.

Same thing for undaunted, many of the skills support roles need are in their so we can participate and help dungeon finders.

It's balanced. I would not mess with it or be in a group that people can easily switch to being healers, suck at it, and then tell me how to play my role - which happens in other MMOs.

So "no" to class changes. Just create a new toon and team up with guildies to level them. It's much more fun that way.

You can still have your 18 characters just as they are now if there was a class change token. It's for people (such as myself) who stop playing a character 'cos I get bored with a class but love the character.

Well, myself, I could care less if Zos adds class change mechanics for free or via the crown store. Arguing with them about their reasons for not wanting class change is rather fruitless and pointless as they do not make that decision and all your points are just as valid as theirs because it ignores the real issue that Zos has decided they are not interested in offering such a feature.

The only conversation on this subject that matters is one that addresses their reasoning.

barney2525

Vercingetorix wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Welkynar wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Welkynar wrote: »

Ok, let’s stop the pretentiousness. If devs can add class change then just add class change. Done. People who prefer making new characters and having multiple classes to play won’t be affected. Casual players or players who only want one character to play, but want to change their class, will be benefitted. Nobody is hurt by a class change. I’m tired of the arguments against this. It’s so pointless and ridiculous.

Wrong thought.
The right one would be: "...will ZOS get profit from this exceeding the paid programmer time spend coding it by a significant enough margin?"
Because spending resources without profit hurts ZOS bottom line, and, well... that is the only hurt they -really- care about. Welcome to capitalism, comrade!

The devs will add class change if it looks like it would get ZOS more profits in the end. But... I suspect they reckon if they just add more paid shortcuts, people will make more alts instead and then maybe get impatient and vexed after playing the same quests for the dozenth time, and get tempted to spend crowns on those shortcuts... spend crowns on XP scrolls, and riding training, and on skyshard mirroring, and whatever else they will add to the crown store. And they may also consider too few people likely to pay the price they would charge...
...at least for now.

Maybe someday they will look at this from a different direction. Maybe someday they will add it.

But arguing from the benefit of the -player- will do little to sway the suits in charge of the company...

(for anyone reading this, please read the whole thing to understand what I’m trying to say)

I see that argument a lot and I did address it in my post already. Not trying to be rude to you but we need to stop bringing up the imaginary profit question that is against class change (and especially it should not be used against performance updates). Adding another purchase option as expensive as they would like is not going to hurt profits.

Class change ISN’T for people who will make alts. I will not need a class change at all (if I buy a class change, that would mean I need to replace one of my character’s class, and thus replace their build and playstyle. They’re not losing money if I don’t need it). My characters are leveled and have enough mount upgrades — all done for free using XP scrolls that ZOS gave away for free (I still have a lot in my bank) and mount upgrades for 250 gold per day. If ZOS was so obsessed with profit they wouldn’t be giving out XP scrolls so much and mount upgrades wouldn’t be available for 250 gold per day. Class changes would most benefit players who focus on one character. These casual players play the game for the journey. They are immersed in the world as their character. They care about their character’s achievements, story quest progress, etc. Maybe even players who have alt characters might want it because they want to change their main’s class.

We need to understand that adding class change is a different kind of purchase than skyshards, XP scrolls, skill lines, mount upgrades, etc. And if profit is sooo important they will do the smart thing and price it at a high crown cost. The profit will come from those who will purchase a class change token but NOT make alts. Meanwhile, players who make alts and do not need a class change token will continue to buy those upgrades because if they use a class change token, they are short on one class! And for players who make alts AND want a class change for their main, there will be even more profit since they will want to purchase a class change for their main and possibly purchase convenience upgrades for their other characters.

The only sound and logical reason is that they simply cannot do it because they can’t code it. Sure, at the moment it can’t happen but probably that doesn’t mean it’s 100% impossible. I mean, it’s replacing 3 skill lines. We can replace our race passives but that’s probably different. I will always support pressuring ZOS to do things players want that isn’t detrimental to the game: Necromancers (happened), buyable skyshards that you’ve already completed (happened), buyable skill lines that you’ve already completed (happened), massive performance update, class change, 60 fps on XB1X and PS4 Pro... And those 3 things that happened had people arguing against them for no good reason. No necromancers because it’s somehow bad for the lore or whatever. No buying skyshards or skill lines because grinding = more money somehow. Anyway, I’m tired and this will probably be my last lengthy post regarding this thing. I know I might sound rude but I’m just tired of seeing all the irrational arguments against class change and other things players want. I just need to say it all.

Granted, it is different than the other types of purchases such as skyshards etc.

But My question is ' IF you implement a 'change class' at will token, what is the point of having classes at all?

IMHO, chasing the 'new' Meta every 6 months is not a good enough reason to Class jump.

IMHO

I think you are missing the point and that is to preserve progress accrued on that character when you decide to change your class. Many players that would use these tokens would be using them on characters with many logged hours, achievements, map clears, etc. The point is that the player using the token is looking to preserve their progression in ESO, not to chase some fleeting "best class" mentality. For these players, starting over is not an option because their are "completionists" and/or have a limited amount of time to play and would like to experience the rest of ESO instead of being stuck clearing the same content they cleared out months or even years ago.

I didn't miss the point. The actual issue is the reason 'Why" these heavily developed characters have a sudden Need to change class that I am curious about.

If it is Not to chase the 'Meta', and it's Not because they are no longer as effective as they were before some patch, Why do they need to change classes?

Easily_Lost

Read about half of the posts, so this may have been said already.

If you want to pay for it that's fine.

But you go to level 1 on all Class Skills.
They refund your skill points.
If you go back to a previous class you will have to start over again at level 1.

This is my take on this.

Luigi_Vampa

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Read about half of the posts, so this may have been said already.

If you want to pay for it that's fine.

But you go to level 1 on all Class Skills.
They refund your skill points.
If you go back to a previous class you will have to start over again at level 1.

This is my take on this.

I'd be perfectly fine with this.

Itacira

barney2525 wrote: »

I didn't miss the point. The actual issue is the reason 'Why" these heavily developed characters have a sudden Need to change class that I am curious about.

It's really not sudden, many players have been asking for it for a while now.

barney2525 wrote: »

If it is Not to chase the 'Meta', and it's Not because they are no longer as effective as they were before some patch, Why do they need to change classes?

Idk, maybe read the many, many comments explaining precisely that ? Could be useful, in a discussion.

Vercingetorix

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Read about half of the posts, so this may have been said already.

If you want to pay for it that's fine.

But you go to level 1 on all Class Skills.
They refund your skill points.
If you go back to a previous class you will have to start over again at level 1.

This is my take on this.

I actually would want it implemented this way. If you change your class, it is a fair ask that you re-grind your class disciplines, regardless if you've been that class in the past. I didn't mention it in my OP, but yes- this is exactly how I would want it handled. The act of changing your class shouldn't be something you do lightly - and if you do, you have to commit to "re-training".

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Your argument is weak. You want a class change token because you're either too lazy

Case 2: You are not on PC
Do you look up stuff on the internet about the game or discover everything by yourself? LAZY!
Do you ask people questions to shortcut your learning process? LAZY!

Listen here buddy. I’m a console player and haven’t done any of that, so don’t lump me or anyone else in that category. And seriously? Asking questions is not only bad now but also lazy and somehow “a shortcut”? So by your logic new players are lazy then huh?

TheShadowScout

Easily_Lost wrote: »

But you go to level 1 on all Class Skills.
They refund your skill points.
If you go back to a previous class you will have to start over again at level 1.

Yes, for the class skills. Only way to do it, really. After all, a new class would have new morphs, and people bloody well ought to play it to learn how it works while they are raising their skill lines again...

No for the total level (duh), though I reckon you did not mean that anyhow. (just clarifying here)

Easily_Lost

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Easily_Lost wrote: »

But you go to level 1 on all Class Skills.
They refund your skill points.
If you go back to a previous class you will have to start over again at level 1.

Yes, for the class skills. Only way to do it, really. After all, a new class would have new morphs, and people bloody well ought to play it to learn how it works while they are raising their skill lines again...

No for the total level (duh), though I reckon you did not mean that anyhow. (just clarifying here)

I only meant go back to level 1 for the Class Skills.

Gariele

For the achievement hunters out there this would be a dream come true. Running quest on certain classes is so much easier than others. But maybe they don’t have the skill to use that class effectively in Dungeons/Trials/PvP. An option to switch would be great.

I have 15 maxed characters and to be honest I would only change my main to make the content I’m running atm more suited for me. Gotta have those dyes and fancy furnishings. But I would use the others for the reason I made them.

This could be something that benefits many and pushes people over the hump to try more and difficult content where time is a huge factor cause they can’t level up more characters cause of life/kids/jobs.