Protective jewels
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wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed. I'd like to see some of these "stamina-only" players switch over to an immobile magicka build in high MMR BGs, without using Protective or Pirate Skeleton. When you're fighting people who aren't newbs, and don't have a dedicated healer, survivability is just awful without those defensive measures.HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »
For light armor users in pvp it was a staple. 100%. Jewelry crafting wasn’t the only change made in that year.5 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭Indeed. I'd like to see some of these "stamina-only" players switch over to an immobile magicka build in high MMR BGs, without using Protective or Pirate Skeleton. When you're fighting people who aren't newbs, and don't have a dedicated healer, survivability is just awful without those defensive measures.
The main agitators for nerfing things like protective are stambaddies with pocket healers that get very upset when they cant delete opponents in three seconds or less. They won't be happy until everyone is a stamden running bloodspawn, and ZoS will listen to them ebcause they make the most forum posts.
Nerfing pirate skeleton had to happen. Nerfing protective further erodes build diversity and takes away yet another tool mag builds can compete with faceroll heavy armor stam builds. No one will run anything but the base traits (arcane, healthy, robust), infused, and the niche use of Swift or Bloodthirsty. All this patch accomplished is further relegating sets and traits to the "thou shall never be used" category.8 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »They're pretty useless now
they are not op even on Live.
Resists from 3 jewellery doesn't compensate damage and stats loss with this trait.
It's 2,6k Main stat stamina/magicka with robust/arcane, or - 330 weapon/spell damage u have with infused.
or -27% execute damage with 3 Bloodthirthty.
or - 4 k Max stat summary with Triune...
Or, 18% of speed with Swift...
I personally will not trade these any of stats for resists even on live.
On PTS - it's a joke...
Real % of Mitigation u gain with 4,8k resists on LIve now is too small for this.
I have no idea what was the reason to nerf them instead of reactive making it like "equal" to Lady mundus which is too weak option.
Her I want also to say that I don't want to defend protective trait. It's core idea isn't interesting. It could be interesting with for example Health recovery bonus at the top, like Steed mundus have or healing recieved.Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 16, 2019 3:54AMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is diversity so frowned upon?
People want to play differently, you won't sacrifice it but others will, with this change It's just simply not worth it even kind of.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.3 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I've said before, I'm fine with nerfs to Pirate Skeleton (though the way they did it was wrong IMO - it's basically worthless now), as long as they do something about survivability and/or mobility of non-Sorcerer magicka builds.Nirnroot420 wrote: »
The main agitators for nerfing things like protective are stambaddies with pocket healers that get very upset when they cant delete opponents in three seconds or less. They won't be happy until everyone is a stamden running bloodspawn, and ZoS will listen to them ebcause they make the most forum posts.
Nerfing pirate skeleton had to happen. Nerfing protective further erodes build diversity and takes away yet another tool mag builds can compete with faceroll heavy armor stam builds. No one will run anything but the base traits (arcane, healthy, robust), infused, and the niche use of Swift or Bloodthirsty. All this patch accomplished is further relegating sets and traits to the "thou shall never be used" category.
With damage being as high as it has been for a long time, anyone who lacks mobility (which is most magicka setups) needs to be really tanky. Magicka's optimal ways to gain durability while still having enough damage to be viable, were stacking Protective Jewelry and Pirate Skeleton. If we're forced more and more into running defensive 5 piece sets, I think the game will shift even more in Stamina's favor than it already is. Stamina builds have spent the overwhelming majority of the last 2-3 years being far more dangerous to me on any character than almost all Magicka builds are (exception for good Mag Sorcs, and DKs when I'm Vampire...+25% damage is really insane).
So Pirate Skeleton got gutted....OK, fine. But where are my other options to not die in 3 seconds? I guess I'm supposed to spam self heals, with little-to-no opportunity for actually outputting damage, until my Magicka Necromancer (which has by far the worst sustain in the game) runs out of Magicka. While I had reservations about some things in 5.1, I was hopeful that Magicka Necromancers might actually get some worthwhile damage options via the new "generic" magicka DOTs. But if survivability and sustain are both rock bottom, having the potential for decent DOT-based offense doesn't really matter.6 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Indeed. I'd like to see some of these "stamina-only" players switch over to an immobile magicka build in high MMR BGs, without using Protective or Pirate Skeleton. When you're fighting people who aren't newbs, and don't have a dedicated healer, survivability is just awful without those defensive measures.
It's awful with them, lol.1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said it before and I'll say it again, trying to address the tank meta without addressing the reason for it is pointless. You're addressing the symptom, not the cause.
All these nerfs will do is push people into building tanky in other ways, namely using other defensive sets, and we'll have the same complaints 3+ months down the road when people are stacking vBRP dual wield and Buffer of the Swift, or whatever.
Damage needs to be reduced alongside mitigation, because that's the entire reason why people build tanky in the first place. To not get deleted in 2-3 seconds, with no opportunity to counter, without any hint as to what actually happened and what they could have done better.8 -
JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭I've said it before and I'll say it again, trying to address the tank meta without addressing the reason for it is pointless. You're addressing the symptom, not the cause.
All these nerfs will do is push people into building tanky in other ways, namely using other defensive sets, and we'll have the same complaints 3+ months down the road when people are stacking vBRP dual wield and Buffer of the Swift, or whatever.
Damage needs to be reduced alongside mitigation, because that's the entire reason why people build tanky in the first place. To not get deleted in 2-3 seconds, with no opportunity to counter, without any hint as to what actually happened and what they could have done better.
i agree it's because of overall too high burst damage and overheal at current Live.
AT PTS, same very high damage but worse healing and more preferences to heavy builds...LIke no bleeds (no ignorin resists...) anymore... no rally burst heal for stamina classes which have no alternatives. No hot from it also. (new vigor will compencate it i guess but)
So to be tanky will not be only for to not be bursted down in a second, but also to dominate because there will be much less ways to kill someone in heavy.
nd yes, Reverberating bash is now no Major Defile source, it's like -80% of Defile uptime active on u during fight...
With worse surviveability in light and medium.
I see broken balance.
Very hope something to be changed in Zenimax team policits. it's going to be Hell now.Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 16, 2019 5:23PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Indeed. I'd like to see some of these "stamina-only" players switch over to an immobile magicka build in high MMR BGs, without using Protective or Pirate Skeleton. When you're fighting people who aren't newbs, and don't have a dedicated healer, survivability is just awful without those defensive measures.
@wheem_ESO
Magicka PvP builds do not have to be played as immobile builds. My magsorc and magblade will beat most stamina builds in terms of mobility.
Yes, I do understand the implications of losing Protective as a viable trait though, as someone who always plays either light or medium. But, we still have alternate build paths to get to high resists.3 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You just named the only two Magicka builds that actually have mobility/escape options. Try playing some of the others.
@wheem_ESO
Magicka PvP builds do not have to be played as immobile builds. My magsorc and magblade will beat most stamina builds in terms of mobility.
Yes, I do understand the implications of losing Protective as a viable trait though, as someone who always plays either light or medium. But, we still have alternate build paths to get to high resists.
Magicka Necromancer, for example, is absolutely an immobile magicka class. Your only options for any kind of mobility are Mist Form and Race Against Time, neither of which compares to Mag Sorc or Stamina-anything. And given the damage options available to Mag Necro, even with the PTS changes thus far, you're not going to have any success trying to be a glass cannon and burst someone down before they get you first. You must be tanky in order to have any viability at all, but all the options for doing that are being nerfed.
I get that people don't like there being a "tank meta," but some classes just don't have much of a choice in playstyle if they want to do well. Shield size and durability will not, by any stretch of the imagination, be able to pick up the slack for these builds in no-CP, if the Protective and Pirate Skeleton nerfs go live as-is.5 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Protective got the same treatment swift got. In typical Zenimax style they devalue jewelry crafting further to fit their vision of “balance”. I fully expect infused to get nerfed by the end of the year.Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 16, 2019 1:53PM1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You just named the only two Magicka builds that actually have mobility/escape options. Try playing some of the others.
Magicka Necromancer, for example, is absolutely an immobile magicka class. Your only options for any kind of mobility are Mist Form and Race Against Time, neither of which compares to Mag Sorc or Stamina-anything. And given the damage options available to Mag Necro, even with the PTS changes thus far, you're not going to have any success trying to be a glass cannon and burst someone down before they get you first. You must be tanky in order to have any viability at all, but all the options for doing that are being nerfed.
I get that people don't like there being a "tank meta," but some classes just don't have much of a choice in playstyle if they want to do well. Shield size and durability will not, by any stretch of the imagination, be able to pick up the slack for these builds in no-CP, if the Protective and Pirate Skeleton nerfs go live as-is.
To be honest, Necromancer does have "free" major protection built in with deaden pain, and since you are immobile in theory you have fields of corpses to harvest. It doesn't play out so smoothly in the hustle bustle of real world, but it is there.1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
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@wheem_ESO
Magicka PvP builds do not have to be played as immobile builds. My magsorc and magblade will beat most stamina builds in terms of mobility.
Yes, I do understand the implications of losing Protective as a viable trait though, as someone who always plays either light or medium. But, we still have alternate build paths to get to high resists.
Thought for sure I was gonna race change back to high elf next patch but then they canceled protective so here comes the Nord I guess...0 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭You want to know the worst thing? All of us who spent transmute crystals making our golden jewelry protective now have to spend even more crystals transmuting them back to something useful
Ah well, I'm still happy that protective isn't over-statted any more and pirate skele is getting neutered... The crown-dishdasha wearing carry-magNBs will need to find a new way to jump around zergs.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said it before and I'll say it again, trying to address the tank meta without addressing the reason for it is pointless. You're addressing the symptom, not the cause.
All these nerfs will do is push people into building tanky in other ways, namely using other defensive sets, and we'll have the same complaints 3+ months down the road when people are stacking vBRP dual wield and Buffer of the Swift, or whatever.
Damage needs to be reduced alongside mitigation, because that's the entire reason why people build tanky in the first place. To not get deleted in 2-3 seconds, with no opportunity to counter, without any hint as to what actually happened and what they could have done better.
People build tanky because they can without losing killing power. Thats the only reason.3 -
HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭You want to know the worst thing? All of us who spent transmute crystals making our golden jewelry protective now have to spend even more crystals transmuting them back to something useful
Ah well, I'm still happy that protective isn't over-statted any more and pirate skele is getting neutered... The crown-dishdasha wearing carry-magNBs will need to find a new way to jump around zergs.
It wasn’t that overstatted for mag users. People forget that shields used to not be crittable and take resistances in to account. This change with the ward nerf was the driving factor of why mag users had to stack heavy resistances in the first place. Mag users adapted with protective jewelry. Now zenimax nerfs it in to useless oblivion and expect day 1 players (especially pvp) to just go with it and say, yeah, ok. Let me start this grind for transmute stones I’ve acquired for 12+ pieces of jewelry again. The games already extremely stale with minimal to no changes to battlegrounds with exception of some terrible map additions and cyrodill performance is at an all time low. The future for this game isn’t looking so bright, unfortunately. As I said, when borderlands comes out I think this game will take quite the hit.Edited by HEBREWHAMMERRR on July 17, 2019 12:22AM1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Nord might work out well for some classes I suppose, but I can't imagine how awful Necromancer sustain would be, given how bad it already is on a Breton.
Thought for sure I was gonna race change back to high elf next patch but then they canceled protective so here comes the Nord I guess...
Says the Stamina player.
People build tanky because they can without losing killing power. Thats the only reason.
If you're an immobile magicka class that doesn't play in groups all the time, you essentially have to build tanky in order to have any real effectiveness.
Edit:
The uptime on Deaden Pain is not so great when you're fighting good players...which is exactly when you need it most. In theory, this skill would allow you to maintain 50% uptime on Major Protection from your self-generated corpses. But that's not actually realistic when you're up against good players; you can't really rely on having all 4 corpses (Blastbones, Bone Armor, Mender, and Mage) available and in range/LOS at the exact same time.
To be honest, Necromancer does have "free" major protection built in with deaden pain, and since you are immobile in theory you have fields of corpses to harvest. It doesn't play out so smoothly in the hustle bustle of real world, but it is there.
'Course, even if you do have them all available simultaneously, that means your global cooldowns are going to be tied up for a significant period of time. You'll need 1 for Deaden Pain itself, then another 3 for re-buffing armor and pets, plus another for Blastbones to try and get some damage output going again. I think Deaden Pain would be a much better option for PvP if it only consumed 1 corpse but provided a longer duration. (As a heads up for those that aren't aware, "spamming" Deaden Pain resets the duration of the ability, it doesn't add to the existing duration if you consume an extra corpse with a second cast).Edited by wheem_ESO on July 17, 2019 8:10AM0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a magDK being slow AF I needed the resistance buffs, rip.
Give me something to escape then
Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nord might work out well for some classes I suppose, but I can't imagine how awful Necromancer sustain would be, given how bad it already is on a Breton.
Says the Stamina player.
If you're an immobile magicka class that doesn't play in groups all the time, you essentially have to build tanky in order to have any real effectiveness.
Edit: The uptime on Deaden Pain is not so great when you're fighting good players...which is exactly when you need it most. In theory, this skill would allow you to maintain 50% uptime on Major Protection from your self-generated corpses. But that's not actually realistic when you're up against good players; you can't really rely on having all 4 corpses (Blastbones, Bone Armor, Mender, and Mage) available and in range/LOS at the exact same time.
'Course, even if you do have them all available simultaneously, that means your global cooldowns are going to be tied up for a significant period of time. You'll need 1 for Deaden Pain itself, then another 3 for re-buffing armor and pets, plus another for Blastbones to try and get some damage output going again. I think Deaden Pain would be a much better option for PvP if it only consumed 1 corpse but provided a longer duration. (As a heads up for those that aren't aware, "spamming" Deaden Pain resets the duration of the ability, it doesn't add to the existing duration if you consume an extra corpse with a second cast).
Ah yea for necro, not a chance. The devs thought differently and increased cost on their skills instead... impressive outlook... oy.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »As a magDK being slow AF I needed the resistance buffs, rip.
Give me something to escape then
Rat against time.1
