Misinformation/Rumors about the new Vigor(No, Vigor is not 85% stronger)

susmitds

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Strider__Roshin

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

Rapid regen heals two people not one, and only does 9% less healing than vigor. The bias of the magicka community is astounding.

Rianai

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

Rapid regen heals two people not one, and only does 9% less healing than vigor. The bias of the magicka community is astounding.

Regen (both morphs) heals only 1 target and has same (base) healing as vigor.
Testing stuff is hard, isn't it?

bardx86

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

Rapid regen heals two people not one, and only does 9% less healing than vigor. The bias of the magicka community is astounding.

Vigor was borderline over performing on live it didn't need a buff. It definitely didn't need a cost reduction especially if its gonna be one of the best heals in the game. You are clearly biased.

Lord-Otto

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Tehehe, don't gimme your sorc sorrows here. I get it, you don't like us, I don't care.
I gave you an answer. In other words, when our main defenses get nuked, we do what everyone always tells us - adapt.
Why are you on a high horse, anyway? Momentum gets nerfed and you get compensation in buffed Vigor. But for some reason, Hardened and Matriarch get nerfed, but sorcs are not supposed to seek compensation? Typical.

susmitds

bardx86 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

Rapid regen heals two people not one, and only does 9% less healing than vigor. The bias of the magicka community is astounding.

Vigor was borderline over performing on live it didn't need a buff. It definitely didn't need a cost reduction especially if its gonna be one of the best heals in the game. You are clearly biased.

They are balancing Vigor around Rapid Regen/Mutagen. If Vigor costed the same on PTS, the new RR/Mutagen would have cost well around 4k, following the 15% lesser cost for stamina rule.

susmitds

Lord-Otto wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Tehehe, don't gimme your sorc sorrows here. I get it, you don't like us, I don't care.
I gave you an answer. In other words, when our main defenses get nuked, we do what everyone always tells us - adapt.
Why are you on a high horse, anyway? Momentum gets nerfed and you get compensation in buffed Vigor. But for some reason, Hardened and Matriarch get nerfed, but sorcs are not supposed to seek compensation? Typical.

Cause petsorc is OP in PvP and deserve to be nerfed, not compensated back to their current state. I am no magsorc but most good magsorc would agree.

josh.lackey_ESO

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

[
It should be more expensive since magika got bigger stat pool(keep ignore this like you did in other thread aswell)and is just 200more magika not the 50% you where claiming.

You are making this up. Magicka does not have a bigger stat pool. All sources of Max Magicka are the exact same values as Max Stamina: enchants, traits, food, attribute points, mundus stones, etc.

If anything, Magicka users have to lower their stat pool to fit 20k stam so they can at least break free or very sparingly roll out of a root. Stamina users only use Magicka for utility.

The 15% universal cost reduction for stam is unfair and should be abolished. It just lets stam builds trade recovery for weapon damage. Magicka builds have to run more recovery and less spell damage to have similar sustain.

Ramber

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

i like how you say all this as fact lol. vigor is barely a good heal in pvp, you need to play in a small group once in a while with vigor being the only heals and tell me its OP.

ProzTh3Almighty

ill post here as well just to be thorough...

ProzTh3Almighty

ProzTh3Almighty

just as fair a comparison as i could think of considering sets and such. both with major brutality/sorcery and a beserker enchant and the heal on a nirnhoned bar. just for discussion sake

Moonsorrow

Based on my own testing, BOTH mag and stam will have very strong healing options. Really close to each others in a functional build that is not just made to get a screenshot of some big tooltip number.

Most people propably not even tested actually?

But yeah, typically it has already started again, the usual bunch of the mag players trying to get Vigor nerfed and the usual bunch of stam players trying to get Regeneration nerfed. Eventually both get then nerfed and then they have angry talks on who was nerfed the most.. because being proud about playing the most nerfed spec and being the ones that caused it all in the first place with the endless nerf cries.

Healing options for mag and stam will be really close to identical. Most know this who can think it through without angry bias. Yeah, for many mag setups heals are bound to Resto as other weapon, same as for many functional stam builds they are bound to carrying the "brutality stick" aka 2H even if only using it to get Major Brutality/Rally. Resto has some nice passives too, not like it is total pain to be using it on back bar. And stam people.. you did get your endless "nerf sorc" to happen, shields cannot be spammed anymore with same efficiency, so.. maybe next time you die to some mag spec, instead of nerf post its time to realize it is L2P time?

Maybe just finally end this "our life is more miserable than yours.." competition and forum nerf wars.. and git gud?

killingspreeb16_ESO

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

[
It should be more expensive since magika got bigger stat pool(keep ignore this like you did in other thread aswell)and is just 200more magika not the 50% you where claiming.

You are making this up. Magicka does not have a bigger stat pool. All sources of Max Magicka are the exact same values as Max Stamina: enchants, traits, food, attribute points, mundus stones, etc.

If anything, Magicka users have to lower their stat pool to fit 20k stam so they can at least break free or very sparingly roll out of a root. Stamina users only use Magicka for utility.

The 15% universal cost reduction for stam is unfair and should be abolished. It just lets stam builds trade recovery for weapon damage. Magicka builds have to run more recovery and less spell damage to have similar sustain.

That's a personal issue,i play on no cp with 11/12kstamina and do fine,if you can't with cp helping you that's a l2p issue.

Magika got bigger stat pool than stamina idk what are you smoking,flash news stamina invest on magika aswell.also their gear choice matters.

Quick example my stamblade full legendary got like 28k stamina on no cp,my mageblade is over 30k.(same goes for my other magika char)
Also even if you leave that aside stamina use their main pool for:sneak,sprint,bash,block,roll and break free and then add all the rotation skill and healing skill so yeah "unfair" sure.

Bias dosen't help you.

ProzTh3Almighty

I THOUGHT MY SCREENSHOTS WERE UNBIASED neutral:

Derra

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

tbh - it should be a little better (overall not looking at one character) as it´s tied to a utility weapon instead of being in an universial skillline.
slotting rr comes at the loss of slotting sword and board or ice staff on your defensive bar.

I agree though that it should not hit 2 targets for full potency but rather should heal a 2nd ally for like 30 to 50% of the casters hot? May´be it´d be even fine just hitting only the caster like vigor. Though then it´d be undeniably worse imo.

Personally i dislike the implication of new mutagen/rr pushing people back towards resto staff - and then slotting the ulti becomes a nobrainer again.
We had people moving away from backbar resto since murkmire a bit and now it will be back with a vengeance bringing life giver defensive spam along with it. Not a fan.

Derra

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

So I have been seeing tons of people saying how the new Resolving Vigor is 85% than the old one and how the new Vigor gives twice the healing Potential compared to the old one.

This is a ridiculous statement though. Most people are forgetting the fact even on Live, Resolving Vigor has significantly bigger tooltip than Base Vigor.

Here are some comparisons:

Current Stamblade PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 13781 over 5 secs. HPS: 2756.2
Echoing Vigor - 10438 over 5 secs. HPS - 2087.6

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 18684 over 5 secs. HPS: 3736.8
Echoing Vigor - 18684 over 10 secs. HPS - 1868.4

Current StamDK PvP build

Live

Resolving Vigor - 23667 over 5 secs. HPS: 4733.4
Echoing Vigor - 17824 over 5 secs. HPS - 3564.8

PTS

Resolving Vigor - 31548 over 5 secs. HPS: 6309.6
Echoing Vigor - 31548 over 10 secs. HPS - 3154.8

Comparison to

PTS standard MagDK build

Rapid Regen - 28714 over 5 secs. HPS: 5742.8
Mutagen - 28714 over 10 secs+17801 Burst Heal. HPS - 2871.4+17801 Burst Heal

PTS standard MagNB build

Rapid Regen - 20224 over 5 secs. HPS: 4044.8
Mutagen - 20224 over 10 secs+ 12538 Burst Heal. HPS - 2022.4+12538 Burst Heal

As you can see the heals are quite balanced to each other. Whether they are all very high and needs to be balanced is another thing all together.

Dam, I can see now Vigor will create too much trouble in PVP.

Magicka not solely rely on Rapid Regen but Stam every build rely on Vigor. Should not have too much healing in PVP whether it is Vigor or Rapid Regen

Forum will be rushed with nerf requests for Vigor, its clearly too much heals and stam DK will be un-killable.

Also Rapid Regen requires restro to slot but vigor just one skill!

Rapid regen heals two people not one, and only does 9% less healing than vigor. The bias of the magicka community is astounding.

Your bias against magica is the only thing astounding here as you´re apparently even incapable of reading the tooltip on pts before making your blissfully ignorant comment with the unrivaled arrogance of the uninformed.

It hits one target only and is tied to a weaponline. Apart from the base scaling - which is exactly the same as vigor it´s in every way worse when looking at it from a selfheal perspective.

susmitds

Derra wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

tbh - it should be a little better (overall not looking at one character) as it´s tied to a utility weapon instead of being in an universial skillline.
slotting rr comes at the loss of slotting sword and board or ice staff on your defensive bar.

I agree though that it should not hit 2 targets for full potency but rather should heal a 2nd ally for like 30 to 50% of the casters hot? May´be it´d be even fine just hitting only the caster like vigor. Though then it´d be undeniably worse imo.

Personally i dislike the implication of new mutagen/rr pushing people back towards resto staff - and then slotting the ulti becomes a nobrainer again.
We had people moving away from backbar resto since murkmire a bit and now it will be back with a vengeance bringing life giver defensive spam along with it. Not a fan.

I get what you are saying, then again if you look at the stamina side, stamina builds are also somewhat forced to run 2H as brutality and heal stick.

Also, when resto passives kick in, RR beats Vigor in raw healing.

Derra

susmitds wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

tbh - it should be a little better (overall not looking at one character) as it´s tied to a utility weapon instead of being in an universial skillline.
slotting rr comes at the loss of slotting sword and board or ice staff on your defensive bar.

I agree though that it should not hit 2 targets for full potency but rather should heal a 2nd ally for like 30 to 50% of the casters hot? May´be it´d be even fine just hitting only the caster like vigor. Though then it´d be undeniably worse imo.

Personally i dislike the implication of new mutagen/rr pushing people back towards resto staff - and then slotting the ulti becomes a nobrainer again.
We had people moving away from backbar resto since murkmire a bit and now it will be back with a vengeance bringing life giver defensive spam along with it. Not a fan.

I get what you are saying, then again if you look at the stamina side, stamina builds are also somewhat forced to run 2H as brutality and heal stick.

Also, when resto passives kick in, RR beats Vigor in raw healing.

No idea - i haven´t ran 2h on any stam build i´ve played.

Resto passives are only active when you´re on the staves bar - still would still make it worse than vigor if it only worked on self from my perspective.
Though that would definetly be prefereable over the current version on pts. That one is outright horrible.

Sharee

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Missing 5th piece of hulking(its 4/5). The vigor tooltip would be higher if fixed.

DisgracefulMind

Sharee wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Missing 5th piece of hulking(its 4/5). The vigor tooltip would be higher if fixed.

need dat 6 piece bone pirate to support dis claim

Hotdog_23

Just my 2 cents but it appears vigor is better than rapid regen/mutagen considering you have to slot a specific weapon for it and have it slotted on that weapon bar where as with vigor it doesn't matter which weapon you slot it with. So in reality rapid regen/mutagen should be stronger than vigor since it is tied to a weapon skill line vs. a regular skill.

BattleAxe

templesus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Vigor has plenty of other bonuses that RR doesn’t have (can be cast while Negate is active, mitigation for “Vigor“ (aka Stamina) builds is way higher which makes Vigor more effective, it’s cheaper) but have you ever thought about Stamina builds on top of Vigor slotting Circle of Preservation (or what the correct name is of the Fighter‘s Guild morph) for very stationary fights with incredible healing capabilities? Maybe even tanky builds?

And every mag class can easily run rapid regen + class heal survivability tool (living vines, living dark/purify, hardened ward, cinder storm/cauterize, spirit mender, dark cloak) + blackrose resto and be unkillable as well.

Seriously, the people crying that “stam is gonna be unkillable” and think mag builds aren’t going to be in the same boat have a serious theorycrafting impairment.

Anyone who’s ACTUALLY tested on PTS knows how oppressive and hard to kill magicka builds currently are. As are stamina. Both are fairly balanced(with the exception of magplars using living dark in duels). The person quoted I know for a fact hasn’t tested on PTS from what they’ve said on another thread.

People like that are why we need private forums, with a skill based requirement to join, and only people who ACTUALLY test on PTS should be allowed to give feedback on PTS.

I’m sorry as a theory crafter and someone who reads the forums carefully on top of having 18 toons (3tank 3 heals and a stam/mag dps for every class) I have a unique insite into pts whether I’m on to test it or not. As it stands hp restored to resources used vigor and rr are fairly balanced this is taking into account the resto passives and mag having a larger resource pool. I do agree however rr or mutagen should be caster plus 1 ally but the ally would be if ur in a group so if you are solo it will only heal yourself.

Now to go slightly off topic most forum posters read the patch notes and stop and harp on specific points instead of the entirety of changes.when I have the time I will go over several changes made in patch notes and how they tie in together

olsborg

Iskiab wrote: »

Weird question, but why is stamdk so much higher then stamnb, all because of healing passives?

Because stamblade had poor healing and no real passives to boost healing other then siphoning passive, but just maybe one siph skill worth a slot.
Stamdk has multiple healing passives most notably among them is major mending.

fred4

Is anyone else thinking that the increased healing of these abilities may be conterbalanced by the increased availability and strength of single-target DOTs, next patch? I suspect this is what ZOS are thinking. One way to tackle high healing over time builds is to counter them with DOTs, at which point your spammable or burst combo may put your damage over the top and kill them. It's clearly designed to move away from the BG and zerg AOE meta and it also shifts more responsibilty for their own healing onto individuals.

Whether it will work out, who knows. Burst will still be burst. Heals only tick every 1 to 2 seconds. Healing may not save you from an Onslaught burst combo that nukes all your armor and kills you within 2 GCDs. If Onslaught gets the delay, maybe not. I do not like the delays from a playability perspective, but my shielded light armor magblade can currently be insta-killed by a Snipe, Incap, Execute combo. Part of the reason is that Snipe, while cast before Incap, lands after Incap and is buffed by it. The reason that doesn't happen often is Cloak and movement on my part. Imagine that combo working on every tanky 30K health build with Onslaught, though, which it may.

Saril_Durzam

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Broken build? Persorcs don´t top charts. They´re strong, sure. Not more than many HA builds, or stamdens. One has been nor nerfed, ELIMINATED, while others have been toned down (and got a better selfheal, btw). There is a difference. But the OP was right, magsorcs survived that way. Let´s see how they fare after patch. And let´s not talk about PvE...

killingspreeb16_ESO

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Just my 2 cents but it appears vigor is better than rapid regen/mutagen considering you have to slot a specific weapon for it and have it slotted on that weapon bar where as with vigor it doesn't matter which weapon you slot it with. So in reality rapid regen/mutagen should be stronger than vigor since it is tied to a weapon skill line vs. a regular skill.

But Rapid regen get the passive to increase the healing even more from resto staff.

That aside stamina is forced to equip a 2h for rally like magika is with resto staff,now if you take in consideration that rally lost it's hot vigor should heal more than rapid since those 2 are the only two real heal for most stamina class,when as magika there is actually more choice in term of defense that is not bound to any weapon unlike stamina.

Now if we want to try to make rapid more reliable without make it op im all for it,but saying rapid should heal more because is bound to resto staff and ignore all the rest is not the way to go.

Lord-Otto

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Tehehe, don't gimme your sorc sorrows here. I get it, you don't like us, I don't care.
I gave you an answer. In other words, when our main defenses get nuked, we do what everyone always tells us - adapt.
Why are you on a high horse, anyway? Momentum gets nerfed and you get compensation in buffed Vigor. But for some reason, Hardened and Matriarch get nerfed, but sorcs are not supposed to seek compensation? Typical.

Cause petsorc is OP in PvP and deserve to be nerfed, not compensated back to their current state. I am no magsorc but most good magsorc would agree.

Has it ever occured to you that by overnerfing a class it might become underpowered?
Aaah, but you don't care, it's not your class.

Derra

Lord-Otto wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

RR/Mutagen needs to be guaranteed caster and 1 ally. Until then people need to stop calling it the "magicka vigor".

It doesn't need to be more potent than vigor, it just needs to be more dependable.

Case in point, I had to cast it 7 times last night just to get it to hit me. That's wrong.

That will make Rapid Regen better than Vigor. Vigor can not be stacked but your change rapid regen will get stacked. Stackinh heals is how most small scalers as well organized groups survive.

So instead we are left with "smart" heals huh? This seems fair if you play Stamina (not incinuating you do).

Like the recent change to Healing Ward. It's supposed to hit the ally with the lowest health, and now it will provide a HoT. Sweet right? Except even if you are the lowest it's not a guarantee (bug?) so therefore not dependable.

So as Magicka we have to first slot a Resto Staff and then hope our RNG is good enough to get self heals from two skills.

How did Magicka char survive till now and on live? This is the first time, we have something close to Vigor. We never needed it. But that we get it, people want more.

That said, they should change the priority to self first.

I used a strong, cheap Hardened Ward. And a pet heal.
...
...
...
Hm.

So you used a broken build? You can't deny Pet Sorc is OP on live.

Tehehe, don't gimme your sorc sorrows here. I get it, you don't like us, I don't care.
I gave you an answer. In other words, when our main defenses get nuked, we do what everyone always tells us - adapt.
Why are you on a high horse, anyway? Momentum gets nerfed and you get compensation in buffed Vigor. But for some reason, Hardened and Matriarch get nerfed, but sorcs are not supposed to seek compensation? Typical.

Cause petsorc is OP in PvP and deserve to be nerfed, not compensated back to their current state. I am no magsorc but most good magsorc would agree.

Has it ever occured to you that by overnerfing a class it might become underpowered?
Aaah, but you don't care, it's not your class.

The sad part is - a petsorc is in an arguably better state than a non pet sorc on pts. Not that a petsorc is in a good state. But you gotta look at the positives eh?

Saril_Durzam

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Just my 2 cents but it appears vigor is better than rapid regen/mutagen considering you have to slot a specific weapon for it and have it slotted on that weapon bar where as with vigor it doesn't matter which weapon you slot it with. So in reality rapid regen/mutagen should be stronger than vigor since it is tied to a weapon skill line vs. a regular skill.

But Rapid regen get the passive to increase the healing even more from resto staff.

That aside stamina is forced to equip a 2h for rally like magika is with resto staff,now if you take in consideration that rally lost it's hot vigor should heal more than rapid since those 2 are the only two real heal for most stamina class,when as magika there is actually more choice in term of defense that is not bound to any weapon unlike stamina.

Now if we want to try to make rapid more reliable without make it op im all for it,but saying rapid should heal more because is bound to resto staff and ignore all the rest is not the way to go.

So you now get 2 skills in one, saving one skill slot, and you call that balance??

This game is about skill slots uses. Every Stamina build has improved one slot meanwhile magicka need to get 2 or more slots to get the same effect than a stamina character, plus being forced to play a backbar weapon. Stamina characters can go offensive or deffensive in weapon selection and still have good selfhealing while magicka characters are forced to go defensive if they want acceptable healing.

Only a Stamina character main player would consider this balanced.