Please Leave Structured Entropy Alone!

Collectivezen

There are a ton of changes in this patch Note some I understand, others make me cringe, but what I wish for most of all is for Zenimax to not change Structured Entropy to leave it as it is. It is a vital part of some players character build mines included! As much time and money I spent on building charters in this game I would hate to have to trash Yet another character I worked hard on. I am sure people have their reasons to change the skill, but if Zenimax can throw me and my friends some love and leave it alone My friends and I would be less depressed. Thank you!

Vortigaunt

Collectivezen wrote: »

There are a ton of changes in this patch Note some I understand, others make me cringe, but what I wish for most of all is for Zenimax to not change Structured Entropy to leave it as it is. It is a vital part of some players character build mines included! As much time and money I spent on building charters in this game I would hate to have to trash Yet another character I worked hard on. I am sure people have their reasons to change the skill, but if Zenimax can throw me and my friends some love and leave it alone My friends and I would be less depressed. Thank you!

Entropy needs to stay. It’s not overperforming and you can replace your class ST dot with it if you want at the cost of not having class passives BUT not having to spend money on *** spell power pots...

Anthy1066

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

wheem_ESO

Anthy1066 wrote: »

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

Right - it's heavily underperforming on live right now, hence the changes. The passive +HP isn't really necessary (especially since you have to either double-bar it or have your HP jumping around frequently), but if ZOS wants to find some other way to provide that to the people who want it, that's fine. But this skill finally having some noticeable damage is fantastic, and that needs to stay.

Collectivezen

I Disagree, not everything should be about DPS, especially since DPS is so easy to render. The HoT and %5 to Max Health is a great addition to health sustainability. I am all for this skill being transfered to a new skill line if need be, but I plead to Zenimax to not take it away!

leepalmer95

I highly doubt your build is going to be useless without the extra hp.

Benemime

I disagree, it's a great upgrade from how it worked previously. This is a mage skill, not tank. You have undaunted skill tree and fighters guild already to work with. Now we won't need to double slot structured entropy and the regen is nice.

Dojohoda

You like the health pool?

I was worried about the extra health pool because I might bar swap at low health and kill myself.

MartiniDaniels

Dojohoda wrote: »

You like the health pool?

I was worried about the extra health pool because I might bar swap at low health and kill myself.

Well, you may mirror it by shadow skills on NB and have nice HP bonus with small drawback. And nobody will use this morph in PVE magdps department anyway, degeneration is huge boost to sustain.
So yeah, I agree with OP, change to structured is pointless and will just kill some custom builds.

OtarTheMad

I like the change to Entropy. Why would you have to trash your build over one skill? Change a set your wearing, or food... this is so easy to adjust.

WrathOfInnos

I love the changes to Entropy. A good ST DoT, with a choice of either passive healing (like surge or swallow soul) or sustain support (like siphoning attacks). And it still gives the Major Sorcery buff, which is often redundant with potions, but makes it easier for some classes to do casual content without spending gold on consumables.

As for health stacking, that is one of the few builds in the game I’d be happy to see die. When I encounter these types of tanks on my healer it is an awful experience. They don’t have enough stamina to block or dodge, magicka for utility and to heal themselves, or sustain to help regain these resources. They usually are not near resistance cap, and don’t bother casting defensive buffs. The result of all this is that they take 50k damage from a hit that would do 15k to a legitimate tank, and I have to spam 3-4 heals to get them back to full (where a single heal would usually be enough). This means difficult sustain for the healer, and fewer buffs and debuffs for the DPS.

SirMewser

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Anthy1066 wrote: »

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

Right - it's heavily underperforming on live right now, hence the changes. The passive +HP isn't really necessary (especially since you have to either double-bar it or have your HP jumping around frequently), but if ZOS wants to find some other way to provide that to the people who want it, that's fine. But this skill finally having some noticeable damage is fantastic, and that needs to stay.

Not everything is about DPS, that extra health boosted myself and other % based abilities on my Tank, removing that is a nerf to me and a buff to you. Ofc you're okay with that.

Yet people cry about queue because of a lack of Tanks, no wonder. We get treated like ***.

Collectivezen

I am loosing 3k to my max health (due to other nerfs) and HoT which helps me sustain my Mag Tank, my friends use Structured Entropy on thier Mag DPS once again it helps assist with sustainability to health.

Dojohoda

I see your point.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Collectivezen wrote: »

I am loosing 3k to my max health (due to other nerfs) and HoT which helps me sustain my Mag Tank, my friends use Structured Entropy on thier Mag DPS once again it helps assist with sustainability to health.

the hot is even better now on structured entropy, ticks every 2 seconds instead of every 6, meaning you will get 7 ticks per cast instead of 3 and degeneration gives 100 mag back on light attacks, while doing way more dps, your "mag dps" friends might be able to run blue max health/mag food instead of witchmothers, which is the only reason you would have to have 8% more health and the major sorcery lasts for 24 seconds instead of 20 seconds now, if you don't want to cast the dot off cooldown. the skill is way better now. without question.

Collectivezen wrote: »

I Disagree, not everything should be about DPS, especially since DPS is so easy to render. The HoT and %5 to Max Health is a great addition to health sustainability. I am all for this skill being transfered to a new skill line if need be, but I plead to Zenimax to not take it away!

the skill currently gives 8% health at max rank. and in the future, you get 130% more healing from it in trade for that.

SirMewser wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Anthy1066 wrote: »

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

Right - it's heavily underperforming on live right now, hence the changes. The passive +HP isn't really necessary (especially since you have to either double-bar it or have your HP jumping around frequently), but if ZOS wants to find some other way to provide that to the people who want it, that's fine. But this skill finally having some noticeable damage is fantastic, and that needs to stay.

Not everything is about DPS, that extra health boosted myself and other % based abilities on my Tank, removing that is a nerf to me and a buff to you. Ofc you're okay with that.

Yet people cry about queue because of a lack of Tanks, no wonder. We get treated like ***.

no decent tank has entropy on there bars. it does nothing worth giving up 10% of your bars for.

Prutton

First time I see people complaining to not buff a skill.

TheInfernalRage

Collectivezen wrote: »

I am loosing 3k to my max health (due to other nerfs) and HoT which helps me sustain my Mag Tank, my friends use Structured Entropy on thier Mag DPS once again it helps assist with sustainability to health.

How much health are we talking about here? At some point, I had a tank for every class and not once did I have the space to use Structured Entropy and I still end up with at least 40k health on all of them.

Pr0Skygon

I'm struggling to understand how and why 5% more HP is much more important than extra 220% damage on a DOT.
More importantly, what kind of build you have that requires 5% more HP as a vital component, which can threaten you to trash the whole character for the lack of it? I'm genuinely confused and concerned at the same time.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how and why 5% more HP is much more important than extra 220% damage on a DOT.
More importantly, what kind of build you have that requires 5% more HP as a vital component, which can threaten you to trash the whole character for the lack of it? I'm genuinely confused and concerned at the same time.

I agree with what you are saying but structured entropy gives 8% max health.

Insco851

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

I get 2.5k every 2 seconds on my magblade and magcer.

wheem_ESO

SirMewser wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Anthy1066 wrote: »

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

Right - it's heavily underperforming on live right now, hence the changes. The passive +HP isn't really necessary (especially since you have to either double-bar it or have your HP jumping around frequently), but if ZOS wants to find some other way to provide that to the people who want it, that's fine. But this skill finally having some noticeable damage is fantastic, and that needs to stay.

Not everything is about DPS, that extra health boosted myself and other % based abilities on my Tank, removing that is a nerf to me and a buff to you. Ofc you're okay with that.

Yet people cry about queue because of a lack of Tanks, no wonder. We get treated like ***.

There should be little-to-no practical difference for your PvE tank, as long as you're not frequently having your health dip so low that the extra +8% is meaning the difference between success and failure. But like I said above, I'm 100% fine with ZOS attaching the +HP buff onto something else to trade for the change to Structured Entropy.

On the other hand, there is a substantial practical difference being made for many magicka setups. It affects PvP (which is where I spend the vast majority of my playtime), as well as casual/solo PvE, group PvE, etc...Entropy goes from being something that provides 20 seconds of Major Sorcery, and nothing else worth mentioning, to 24 seconds of Major Sorcery and a DOT that's actually worthwhile (plus the choice of either some extra magicka sustain or a more consistent heal, depending on morph). This means more than you know to some classes.

What if you were the one having to use expensive consumables every 45 seconds, just to have a viable build? Or else give up a really good ability just to use one that's incredibly underwhelming, but still provides a must-have buff?

It's no fun to have to change up a build that you have and like, but in a practical sense, this makes far more difference to a much larger number of magicka builds than it does to the fairly small number of PvE tanks that were using it for the +HP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

I get 2.5k every 2 seconds on my magblade and magcer.

In PvE, right? Not post-Battle Spirit?

Insco851

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

I get 2.5k every 2 seconds on my magblade and magcer.

Pve or pvp

darkblue5

The last time Structured Entropy was actually good was the 2 weeks where DK tanks put way too big shields on dps. There are more ways to use it in builds designed to obviate healers than for anything else. For that reason alone it is probably good that it goes. ESO doesn't need more ways for tanks to heal PvE dps or more ways for PvE dps to heal themselves.

Sordidfairytale

I'm sorry people had a bad time with Tanks they encountered that used the skill. I use the skill on my tank when I'm in a self sustain situation where the healer needs to focus elsewhere. It's situational sure, but it's no less of a play-style than how you intend to use it.

At 40k Health this skill equates to 1280 - 1600 added to a shields strength. I like having that extra padding. That being said I'm okay with the change. With more skills being based off of max health it's likely necessary for ZOS to make this change to prevent potential abuse. I'm more bummed about the cost increase. But with the increased HoT it may not be necessary to put it on multiple targets.

Despite that I'll continue to use the skill on my Self-Respecting Sustain Tank, when needed and welcome the changes.

Collectivezen

Thank you for your helpful insight. Some of you have really opened my eyes to some things I am unaware of. It really helps. I hope in the future more people are more like you few folks that took your time to help rather than spam egos.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

wheem_ESO wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Anthy1066 wrote: »

Agree so many of us have builds built around this skill and it is not over performing.

Right - it's heavily underperforming on live right now, hence the changes. The passive +HP isn't really necessary (especially since you have to either double-bar it or have your HP jumping around frequently), but if ZOS wants to find some other way to provide that to the people who want it, that's fine. But this skill finally having some noticeable damage is fantastic, and that needs to stay.

Not everything is about DPS, that extra health boosted myself and other % based abilities on my Tank, removing that is a nerf to me and a buff to you. Ofc you're okay with that.

Yet people cry about queue because of a lack of Tanks, no wonder. We get treated like ***.

There should be little-to-no practical difference for your PvE tank, as long as you're not frequently having your health dip so low that the extra +8% is meaning the difference between success and failure. But like I said above, I'm 100% fine with ZOS attaching the +HP buff onto something else to trade for the change to Structured Entropy.

On the other hand, there is a substantial practical difference being made for many magicka setups. It affects PvP (which is where I spend the vast majority of my playtime), as well as casual/solo PvE, group PvE, etc...Entropy goes from being something that provides 20 seconds of Major Sorcery, and nothing else worth mentioning, to 24 seconds of Major Sorcery and a DOT that's actually worthwhile (plus the choice of either some extra magicka sustain or a more consistent heal, depending on morph). This means more than you know to some classes.

What if you were the one having to use expensive consumables every 45 seconds, just to have a viable build? Or else give up a really good ability just to use one that's incredibly underwhelming, but still provides a must-have buff?

It's no fun to have to change up a build that you have and like, but in a practical sense, this makes far more difference to a much larger number of magicka builds than it does to the fairly small number of PvE tanks that were using it for the +HP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

I get 2.5k every 2 seconds on my magblade and magcer.

In PvE, right? Not post-Battle Spirit?

Insco851 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

What’s the heal look like on pts anyways?

I get 2.5k every 2 seconds on my magblade and magcer.

Pve or pvp

PvE Tooltip on a dps toons of course. I don't PvP.

Red_Feather

I really like it. I want to make a magblade degen build.

xaraan

No matter how they mix up the soul skills and FG/MG skills - all the single target dot should be doing roughly the same damage. If a NB should give up say - Cripple to run soul trap, then something is wrong IMO. You should make those choices based on the utility the skill offers (the snare, the resource return, the synergy with class passives, etc) and not because one is just the clear choice b/c of damage.

JumpmanLane

There’s no point in arguing it. ZOS’s arbitrary nerfs will be followed by arbitrary buffs to be followed by more arbitrary nerfs.

The best thing you can do is theorycraft some kind of build out of the trash and not give out builds and definitely NOT film your self doing anything in game. Hopefully, you can stay under the radar and miss a round of nerfs or two.

kimmyb

I use it on my mag sorc, always have. Adding the best food buff & Undaunted Mettle I'm at barely 25k health, & while that's not horrible that extra 8% health added by Structured Entropy has sometimes been the difference between life & death.