Conjured Ward Changes Are Inconsistent!

bardx86

If we are applying burst healing "standards" to shielding then shouldn't shielding "standards" apply to healing and be capped at 1/2 HP? ZOS this is a huge joke, you guys have no idea what the hell you are doing.

Galarthor

DODHitman wrote: »

Good Post @Galarthor !! We have been nerfed to oblivion and back on these shields already.....I come back to see, yet another. I really pray they dont go live with this crap. Its nuts to see all the stam characters dodging, rolling, blocking and now bad*** vigor. But hey mag characters......your shields are OP lmfao......

It is telling how these how these inherent and most importantly stamina-based defensive tools get one pass after another when the nerf hammer is hitting again.

That change to dodge roll a couple of patches back where you can now only dodge attacks that were fired off within 1 second of your dodging wasn't really a nerf but rather a bug fix where the animation and the effect could be severely out of sync before. Other than that we haven't seen nerf to any of these tools since the early days of ESO. Whereas, shields and heals have been nerfed over and over again.

TheYKcid

Agree with this one.

Pets were rightfully nerfed, and I can get behind the 9% nerf to ward tooltips, too, but this cost increase is absolutely ridiculous. 800 extra mag per GCD—on a skill that has to be repeatedly casted when under pressure—is an absurd nerf to sustain that can't be reasonably compensated for.

With how buffed DoTs have become this patch, Sorcs are going to crumble under any kind of sustained pressure. Literally the only option in numerous matchups will be to chain-Streak away. But hey, I guess that's why we got the 33% stacking cost buff.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.



live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Aedaryl

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.



live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

pieratsos

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

ThePainGuy

Thank you @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO for the tooltips in both PVP and PVE. I was curious how the changes to sorc shields are affected in both content. Not such a big drastic change. However, I still say that shields are losing cost effectiveness and maybe increasing the shield times to 8-10 secs can help with that. 3.5-4k magicka for a 6 sec defense ability is tough. Especially when you look at major evasion from shuffle (stam is less in PTS and lasts 23 sec minimum). Vigor a powerful heal in PTS now costs 2.3 stamina. Its a tough pill to swallow for shield users. Guess we will see how this all plays out.

Aedaryl

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

So you just show us that you didn't reach the HP cap in cyro.

Meaning Hardened is truly nerfed in PvP.

And it's not even taking account your unvialble full damage build.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

So you just show us that you didn't reach the HP cap in cyro.

Meaning Hardened is truly nerfed in PvP.

And it's not even taking account your unvialble full damage build.

Yes, "nerfed" by 5%.

Derra

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

So you just show us that you didn't reach the HP cap in cyro.

Meaning Hardened is truly nerfed in PvP.

And it's not even taking account your unvialble full damage build.

Yes, "nerfed" by 5%.

huh? you haven´t even provided both pts and live shields for pvp side by side. All you´re doing is provide incomplete information.

For me an identical build loses 9% shield comparing live to pts.

Edit:
For me its:

43.396 mag 12% bastion 10372 hardened ward on pts for 3456 mag (breton)

43.352 mag 12% bastion 11360 hardened ward on live for 2738 mag (breton)

the shieldsize is reduced by 8.9%
the cost is increased by 20.7%

pieratsos

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

Yes, really. On a magicka stacked, zero sustain and resistance build. You took it to the extreme with a very biased example to downplay the nerf and you already took a 5% hit. And thats without even counting the cost increase. I hope you understand what that means.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

So you just show us that you didn't reach the HP cap in cyro.

Meaning Hardened is truly nerfed in PvP.

And it's not even taking account your unvialble full damage build.

Yes, "nerfed" by 5%.

huh? you haven´t even provided both pts and live shields for pvp.

For me an identical build loses 9.1% shield comparing live to pts.

Edit: For me its
43.396 mag 12% bastion 10372 hardened ward on pts for 3456 mag (breton)
43.352 mag 12% bastion 11360 hardened ward on live for 2738 mag (breton)

the absolute value of hardened ward was reduced from 47% to 42% of your max magic, a 5% difference. if you are talking about the percent difference between those 2 numbers, then it is a 10.6% drop. it is all how you look at it.

pieratsos wrote: »

Yes, really. On a magicka stacked, zero sustain and resistance build. You took it to the extreme with a very biased example to downplay the nerf and you already took a 5% hit. And thats without even counting the cost increase. I hope you understand what that means.

man, that is just my pet sorc easy mode pve dps. just to show you that i can get about the same size ward in pvp as pve. you sweaty try hard pvpers are all the same, a viable build this and resistance build that. blah blah.

Aedaryl

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

So you just show us that you didn't reach the HP cap in cyro.

Meaning Hardened is truly nerfed in PvP.

And it's not even taking account your unvialble full damage build.

Yes, "nerfed" by 5%.

huh? you haven´t even provided both pts and live shields for pvp.

For me an identical build loses 9.1% shield comparing live to pts.

Edit: For me its
43.396 mag 12% bastion 10372 hardened ward on pts for 3456 mag (breton)
43.352 mag 12% bastion 11360 hardened ward on live for 2738 mag (breton)

the absolute value of hardened ward was reduced from 47% to 42% of your max magic, a 5% difference. if you are talking about the percent difference between those 2 numbers, then it is a 10.6% drop. it is all how you look at it.

pieratsos wrote: »

Yes, really. On a magicka stacked, zero sustain and resistance build. You took it to the extreme with a very biased example to downplay the nerf and you already took a 5% hit. And thats without even counting the cost increase. I hope you understand what that means.

man, that is just my pet sorc easy mode pve dps. just to show you that i can get about the same size ward in pvp as pve. you sweaty try hard pvpers are all the same, a viable build this and resistance build that. blah blah.

Sorry to go in cyrodiil with a viable build?

The PvE question is how much harness Magicka is compared to empowered and which one provide the best sustain. Go for it

Lord_Eomer

Let sorc die for sometime or change shield skill to some other defense skill.

Feeling tired every patch nerf then next patch buff then nerf and then buff

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Aedaryl wrote: »

Sorry to go in cyrodiil with a viable build?

The PvE question is how much harness Magicka is compared to empowered and which one provide the best sustain. Go for it

how about i just don't go to pvp, cause pvp in an mmo is straight garbage anyway you slice it?

though you do pose a good question.


pve annulment morphs-




pvp annulment morphs





first thing i notice is that the cost is more for both, 3902 for both were as hardened is 3672 and empowered is 3213. so hardened is 230 magic less and empowered is 689 magic less then the morphs of annulment. i am a high elf with 5/1/1 on. so that puts the 195 returned from harness to ~253 magic back per hit, so you would need to be hit by all three procs to get more magic back then the lesser cost of empowered ward.

second this is that the base amount of the ward for annulments ward is the same, 31% of your max magic. with hardened ward being 42% of your max magic, dampen(31%) with 5 pieces are armo would bring that up to 40%, 31%*30%= 9%, 9+31=40%, then you still pay more for the protection. but the amount is still capped by your health, 50%.


with 7 pieces of light on those numbers previously mentioned go from 253 magic back per hit to 275 per hit and a max return of 825 if you get hit 3 times while the ward is up for harness. dampen goes to 44% of your max magic as a ward, 13%+31%.

so in conclusion, annulment and its morphs are both inferior to conjured ward and its morphs, which are cheaper and stronger without condition and they protect your pets.

pieratsos

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Yes, really. On a magicka stacked, zero sustain and resistance build. You took it to the extreme with a very biased example to downplay the nerf and you already took a 5% hit. And thats without even counting the cost increase. I hope you understand what that means.

man, that is just my pet sorc easy mode pve dps. just to show you that i can get about the same size ward in pvp as pve. you sweaty try hard pvpers are all the same, a viable build this and resistance build that. blah blah.

"Sweaty try hard pvpers". Its ok you were wrong get over it. No need to get salty. lmao.

BlackMadara

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Sorry to go in cyrodiil with a viable build?

The PvE question is how much harness Magicka is compared to empowered and which one provide the best sustain. Go for it

how about i just don't go to pvp, cause pvp in an mmo is straight garbage anyway you slice it?

though you do pose a good question.


pve annulment morphs-




pvp annulment morphs





first thing i notice is that the cost is more for both, 3902 for both were as hardened is 3672 and empowered is 3213. so hardened is 230 magic less and empowered is 689 magic less then the morphs of annulment. i am a high elf with 5/1/1 on. so that puts the 195 returned from harness to ~253 magic back per hit, so you would need to be hit by all three procs to get more magic back then the lesser cost of empowered ward.

second this is that the base amount of the ward for annulments ward is the same, 31% of your max magic. with hardened ward being 42% of your max magic, dampen(31%) with 5 pieces are armo would bring that up to 40%, 31%*30%= 9%, 9+31=40%, then you still pay more for the protection. but the amount is still capped by your health, 50%.


with 7 pieces of light on those numbers previously mentioned go from 253 magic back per hit to 275 per hit and a max return of 825 if you get hit 3 times while the ward is up for harness. dampen goes to 44% of your max magic as a ward, 13%+31%.

so in conclusion, annulment and its morphs are both inferior to conjured ward and its morphs, which are cheaper and stronger without condition and they protect your pets.

So the class skills are slightly higher stronger and slightly cheaper than the armor skills, and they can protect pets. I would like to see a bit more power into the sorc shields, maybe another percentage or two, but this looks good. Gj on the comparison

Derra

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

the absolute value of hardened ward was reduced from 47% to 42% of your max magic, a 5% difference. if you are talking about the percent difference between those 2 numbers, then it is a 10.6% drop. it is all how you look at it.

Just that you don´t look at absolute numbers in these cases because they´re not relevant.

Whats relevant is the reduction in shieldsize you end up with. Not how that´s related to your magica pool.

My question here would be though: What is your point even. The shield changes are mostly a pvp problem anyway? If you don´t pvp because it´s straight up garbage why discuss changes that will have hardly any impact on things you do in the game?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

. why discuss changes that will have hardly any impact on things you do in the game?

Why do anything ever?

Vortigaunt

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

Good luck with a 10k shield and 10k physical resistance in pvp. Lmfao.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

Good luck with a 10k shield and 10k physical resistance in pvp. Lmfao.

k

Vortigaunt

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

Good luck with a 10k shield and 10k physical resistance in pvp. Lmfao.

k

All you do here is prove how clueless you are and how biased you are against mag toons.

Show me on this doll where the big bad sorc hurt you

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so i have been on the pts, the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.

live tooltips



PTS tooltips-




stats-

Of course this is a PvE build.

All the shield change is about PvP, where people run above 25k HP and where shield size is cut by 50%.

so? pvp healing is halved too.

His point is that in PVP you do not generally reach the health cap that easy so the nerf to the size will actually be noticeable.

oh really?






on live, hardened ward is ~47% of your max magic at base, pts is ~42%. empowered is ~39% on live, and ~31% the pts.

Good luck with a 10k shield and 10k physical resistance in pvp. Lmfao.

k

All you do here is prove how clueless you are and how biased you are against mag toons.

Show me on this doll where the big bad sorc hurt you

Galarthor

Thank you @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, for illustrating point #2 of my original post. Shields do have an upper limit, that's why you didn't see a change. If they hadn't, you would have seen quite a significant drop in size while (hopefully) also noticing a huge increase in cost.

Also, following your approach @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO , I could spec my magplar completely into stamina and weapon damage and then take screenshots of my magicka based abilities and their low tooltips and ask für buffs to magicka abilities b/c tooltips are far too low. Sure, it will be a completely unviable build, but so is your's and you still think it is appropriate.

And just FYI, my magplar with less spell damage and less far max magicka has about the same tooltip in for breath of life as your max magicka maximizing sorc has for hardened ward .... and that prior to crits and ignoring the additional 33% of heal to another target. Oh and my magplar got 3k magicka regen. Seems totally balanced - especially given that the 2 skills post will cost the same.

This is even ignoring that fact that many builds will actually suffer a 9% decrease in shield size, making the shields even weaker compared to breath of life. I am really curious how you reconcile these facts with stated goal of balance and standardization.

ZarkingFrued

Galarthor wrote: »

Reduced the shield size of this ability and the Empowered Ward morph by approximately 18%, and increased the cost of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 4320 from 3510. These changes were done to make them more comparable to the damage shield / burst heal standard.

So you are trying to make defensive abilities more homogenous!? Great! I generally like the idea of making abilities more comparable, in the sense that they all adhere to the same set of rules and are based off of the same benchmark. However, you failed to achieve this objective with these changes!

At 34k Max Magicka and around 1.8k Spell Damage, my Sorcerer gains a Hardened Ward tooltip of around 9.2k. With the same stats my Templar achieves a Breath of Life tooltip of 10.6k. That's 15% more. If you factor in the 9% nerf of Update 23, the disparity increases from 15% to 27%. Therefore, while being comparable cost-wise, these abilities are not "comparable" performance-wise as you claim at all ... unless the "standard" you are referring to is a double standard.

But that's not all you seem to have overlooked:

1) Heals can crit, shields cannot! So the effective disparity is far greater than 27%. If you assume a crit chance of 40% and a multiplier of 60% the disparity already grows to 57% [ 10.6*(1+(0.4*0.6)) / (9.2*0.91) ]!

2) Heals DO NOT have an upper limit, shields do! Where is the performance comparability in that, given that shields already perform lower that BoL?

3) Heals also scale of spell damage, allowing your to maximize both defense and offense, while the max magicka-based shields cannot (certainly not to this degree). Keep in mind, that what's more important is the sustain, not your max resource pool. And sustain is needed by both max spell damage and max magicka builds to pretty much the same degree.

4) Heals can also affect others, they can be used in groupplay, while shields cannot. This is especially true for Breath of Life which essentially heals 1.3 targets. And Honor the dead restores 60% of its cost, lowering the effective cost to somewhere around 1700 - not comparable to the 4300 of the Ward at all! Granted, this group-funtionality of heals can also hurt the caster, but that has nothing to do with performance of the ability itself but rather with the smart healing algorithm not being as smart as it should be - which is a different topic in and of itself.

I fail to see how one ability does not crit, has a cap, does not scale optimally, has no group utility, and costs the same as an abilitiy that can do and does all the aforementioned can be called "comparable".




Also a class ability should be better than an ability you can get from a weapon or armor skill line. Yet with the cost increase there is barely any difference between Dampened Magic and Hardened Ward. If you stray away from this principle, can we get a cloak, breath of life, and cheap purges in non-class skill lines too please?

And just in case somebody gets the glorious idea to bring up the Defile debuff for Healing (again): Keep in mind, you also have the Mending buff for healing to counter Defile debuff. Shielding got neither and as such is balanced in that regard.

Ya know, he is right tho... so if you wanna make them consistent with heals you gotta buff

ZarkingFrued

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Plus you're not talking about the positives of shields.

1.Defile doesn't impact them at all.
2.You can't over shield, it adds to your effective health pool. While if i crit heal while missing 5k hp, guess what, i only get 5k hp.
3. Direct burst healing can't be applied proactively and is ALWAYS a reactionary action. This is huge.
4. Heals like honor the dead or bol are smart heals and YOU MAY NEVER GET THE HEAL DEPENDING ON ALLY HP. That's huge.
5. Shields can be stacked, especially effective when used properly and preemptively.
6. Looks cool.

Can't stack heals huh? You CAN over shield lol. Only reason that it should maybe be less is that it can be used preemptively but so can vigor and any other number of in game heals so nahh. Everyone just hates on mag to reduce the competition imo

Derra

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Plus you're not talking about the positives of shields.

1.Defile doesn't impact them at all.
2.You can't over shield, it adds to your effective health pool. While if i crit heal while missing 5k hp, guess what, i only get 5k hp.
3. Direct burst healing can't be applied proactively and is ALWAYS a reactionary action. This is huge.
4. Heals like honor the dead or bol are smart heals and YOU MAY NEVER GET THE HEAL DEPENDING ON ALLY HP. That's huge.
5. Shields can be stacked, especially effective when used properly and preemptively.
6. Looks cool.

Can't stack heals huh? You CAN over shield lol

People fail to understand shields are used proactive and reactive and thus are more similar to hots in their application than they´re to true burst heals - this has in fact huge implications on the cost over time for shields which are not favorable when compared to true burst heals in balanced fight scenarios.
They also fail to take into account that you do in fact "overshield" a lot - because you generally reapply shields that are partly dmged.
Then people don´t see that you can in fact stack certain heals (hots - which shield application is more similar to most of the time than actual burst heals).

Then shields have no minor or major buffs. No class, weapon, set or any other potency altering synergies. Can not crit. Dmg on them can´t be blocked (you still lose stam/mag though). Do not bring you out of execute range.

The redeeming factors at this point are only not being affected by defile and statuseffects.

On pts it becomes very apparent that these two point do in fact not make up for the multitude of shortcomings shields have compared to true burst heals.
Classes that do have access to true burst heals are way better of on pts using these instead of a shield in their place (admittedly this is also due to those classes having synergies towards healing - something that simply does not exist for shields).

Stibbons

Yes sure lets give shields that can crit and become double the value. Sure if sorcs cry we must do this