PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for PvE Healing

SkyMagpie

Seeing ZOS post the first and only group that got Godslayer on live PC after 2 months of the trial being out means trials aren't yet a joke and there's content out there that needs a lot of skill to beat. As far as I know these people are best of the best.

These changes will as always not impact the 1% of skilled players that can do endgame content anyway as much but will most impact casual players who struggle getting to that endgame as it is. Being pushed few steps down the ladder will get some people on the ground again.

Also people who play casual or are attentive to the general PvE situation have pointed out most groups running base game pledges run 3dd and tank to get it done faster. It's also meta at this point to run 3dds for some hard modes and challenger achievs like Fang Lair so healing being "too strong" doesn't stop people from getting some rare achievs and collectibles completely without a healer. Like others said it's self sustain on dds being to strong that makes the content easy.

Aznarb

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

No one should be unkillable in PVP, one of reason for such builds is Too much heals.

With super heals Vet trials becomes jolk too,

ZOS have done much better this patch ans expecting healing most changes to be as is over the PTS cycle.

If healing made vet trials a joke, then everyone would hsve no problem beating the hardest content. Seeing as how most people can't, healing most obviously wasn't an issue.

Ignore them, most of ppl saying thing like this have no argument and no experience in any serious content.
We'll adapt, even if it's going to b harder. They'll not, and gonna cry again few month/week after the change.

Nerouyn

apri wrote: »

1. Hard nerf of Healing Springs

Desperately needed and long overdue.

Previously healing in this game has been one of the most mind-numbingly boring implementations of it that I've seen in any game.

Spamming a single ability - healing springs - isn't fun.

It's the kind of design which makes players like me who play healers find no joy in group content.

On paper the changes to resto staff heals look very encouraging. I also love necromancer heals. Every ability is useful.

Please, please, please take the same brush and apply it to warden heals.

driosketch

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

BooPerScOOper

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

Aznarb

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

I'm glad it not just me..

D0PAMINE

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Sorry, but that seems like a massive waste of time. For my groups healing tests, we went in as a duo in some Vet I and II's to see how much he could heal me and for how long for starters using the "old" setup. You need to get debuffed, make mistakes, trigger/fail mechanics at least to conduct a viable stress test. It's going to largely depend more on how well the group works together. I can't test trial execute phases. Good luck to those who are.

driosketch

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

Aznarb wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

I'm glad it not just me..

D0PAMINE wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Sorry, but that seems like a massive waste of time. For my groups healing tests, we went in as a duo in some Vet I and II's to see how much he could heal me and for how long for starters using the "old" setup. You need to get debuffed, make mistakes, trigger/fail mechanics at least to conduct a viable stress test. It's going to largely depend more on how well the group works together. I can't test trial execute phases. Good luck to those who are.

You guys ever run a bad random group? This isn't about having a competent group work together. This is about how well a healer can cover, and it hits two pain points caused by recent nerfs.

P.S. There are different types of healing situations. The type of players I need aren't on the PTS. Even if I had others to test with, it's hard for good players to sometimes even conceptualize a less skilled player. (How do you play someone who runs from the Olorime circle without trying to?) I think I found a good analogue. The Goblins don't think, they are merely straight forward.

apri

Nerouyn wrote: »

apri wrote: »

1. Hard nerf of Healing Springs

Desperately needed and long overdue.

Previously healing in this game has been one of the most mind-numbingly boring implementations of it that I've seen in any game.

Spamming a single ability - healing springs - isn't fun.

It's the kind of design which makes players like me who play healers find no joy in group content.

On paper the changes to resto staff heals look very encouraging. I also love necromancer heals. Every ability is useful.

Please, please, please take the same brush and apply it to warden heals.

With all due respect, but we should not confuse personal subjective preferences and objective balance needs and nerfs. If you don't find a skill fun to use, it's fine not to use it but that's not a nerf-case scenario. We should not ask for nerfs on a personal preference basis unless it's breaking something or is under- or overperforming in a harmful way.

From my experience, healing springs is not a broken skill in PvE nor is it the only skill decent healers have used. But I would not mind a more detailed explanation from ZOS what made Springs and Orbs that troublesome they deserve this harsh treatment.

KatySpirit

HaemaMagus wrote: »

Razorback174 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Make the restoration and guild skills stronger or let us know if only these two classes are meant to heal.

This already seems to be happening. And while it may be nice in theory, it certainly seems like they're murdering every single aspect of class identity to get there. You just have to look at the insanely stupid addition of fear to Turn Evil to see that. What used to be a unique CC available to NB's and Necro's has been entirely eclipsed and given to EVERY class now.

Should all classes be able to play all roles effectively? I certainly believe so, but in each their own unique way. Once you've made all the essential skills non-class based, why bother with a class system at all?

Its not impossible for each class to heal in their own way. It requires work and major overhauls. Question is, is ZoS willing to do that.

Sorc needs a major skill overhaul if its going to heal. 1 skill isn't enough to work it. I have no idea how you could even do it without effecting its damaging capabilities.

DK and Necro I haven't looked at extensively, but DK could be a healer that specializes in shields and preventing damage from happening kinda like Disc priest in WoW back in the WotLK days. Necro will need someone else to give ideas to.

NB has the easiest transition imo. You can either bring them back as a healer who heals through damage or you can make them a strong HoT healer by tweaking Funnel Health, Sap Essence and making Refreshing Path at least bigger than Combat Prayer.

These are just my off the top of my head ideas. My issue isn't that classes can't do all roles in their own way because in theory they can, its how long do we have to wait to get there? Ideally these healing changes should also come with more class changes to help the other classes have the tools they need to adapt. If ZoS is planning to do that in the long run, why not wait til we have those changes instead of making 4 classes dead in terms of healing?

I love your ideas, I main a NB Healer and I've been tired of being forced to use weapon abilities and sparkle all yellow instead of red. Now this patch I question what I'll use since my skills haven't had their needs addressed and the weapon abilities have taken some hits. Healing over time and stealing the enemies' life to heal my allies used to be my healer's identity, I would love to have that back.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Did the change to orbs where multiple players can use the synergy was an oversight in the patch notes, or didn't it make it to the PTS at all ?

D0PAMINE

driosketch wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

Aznarb wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

I'm glad it not just me..

D0PAMINE wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Sorry, but that seems like a massive waste of time. For my groups healing tests, we went in as a duo in some Vet I and II's to see how much he could heal me and for how long for starters using the "old" setup. You need to get debuffed, make mistakes, trigger/fail mechanics at least to conduct a viable stress test. It's going to largely depend more on how well the group works together. I can't test trial execute phases. Good luck to those who are.

You guys ever run a bad random group? This isn't about having a competent group work together. This is about how well a healer can cover, and it hits two pain points caused by recent nerfs.

P.S. There are different types of healing situations. The type of players I need aren't on the PTS. Even if I had others to test with, it's hard for good players to sometimes even conceptualize a less skilled player. (How do you play someone who runs from the Olorime circle without trying to?) I think I found a good analogue. The Goblins don't think, they are merely straight forward.

I've run plenty of random groups. Im not trying to be mean, but i've gotten new players vFG I HM with BoL spam, and im only a decent player. I think it's premature to say everything is ok with a healing test in the easiest dungeon in the game, esspecially when you can mitigate the bosses AoE easily with mist form or whatever.. There is lots more testing to do.

driosketch

D0PAMINE wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

Aznarb wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Question ; You're actually serious posting this as a test?

I'm glad it not just me..

D0PAMINE wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

"Using the the goblins from the second half of FG1 as the ultimate PUG run heal test."

Setup: (nothing special with regards to healing)
Redguard Templar
DPS gear - Monster Set: V. Skoria
War Maiden
Soulshine on front bar with lightning staff
Precise IA restro staff on the back bar

Used Witch's brew for Mag (33k)/Health (18K)/Mag regen (1500), and only used Mag/Spell power/Spell crit potions.

Front bar: Mage light/RD/P. Sweep/Shards/Sun Fire & Nova (Ticks on PTS for luminous shards was down, reflective (sun fire morph) were up vs. Live)

(Heals) Back bar: Combat Prayer (heal up)/Honor the Dead (up)/Energy Orb (down)/Cleansing Ritual (up, doubled)/Healing Springs (down) -no ult

The Second Half of FG1, goblin team:
Most of you may not know, because it's the part that usually gets skipped, but after you kill the goblin chief (second boss), the goblins join your side. You will get two melee goblins and an archer as your followers and one commander that follows a story path. The goblin path follows the broken bridges targeting the dreugh, possibly detouring to take on the crab groups. They ignore the third boss, head for the crab boss and then final boss. You'll need to run across the bridge real quick during the crab boss fight to trigger the final boss's reveal. Other wise they will die automatically when the wall explodes.

Why these NPCs are the ultimate pugs:
Left on their own, the goblins will die to the enemies. They will engage any enemies on their path until they are dead, but they also won't wait, running to the next enemy right away. The goblins do not avoid the red and don't synergize. Run solo, you also have no tank. Goblins can only be healed by A0E, so you have no emergency heals to save them, only sustained healing. Additionally, the archer hangs back during the final boss fight, meaning you are either pulling the circle from the group to top him off, or trying to align yourself with the group between the two of you so the one orb will head towards him.

Results:
I did this first run on normal and kept all 4 alive on Live. On PTS, the commander detoured to go after a crab group he didn't go after on Live, and it was too late by the time I noticed. I did keep the other three alive though.

I wasn't able to compete the test on Vet, a single careless death leaves you dead until the goblins die. But I was able to keep all four alive into the final boss fight on both PTS and Live.

Overall, it looks like the healing changes won't hamper a Templar at the very least. I'm interested if others can run this challenge on other classes.

Sorry, but that seems like a massive waste of time. For my groups healing tests, we went in as a duo in some Vet I and II's to see how much he could heal me and for how long for starters using the "old" setup. You need to get debuffed, make mistakes, trigger/fail mechanics at least to conduct a viable stress test. It's going to largely depend more on how well the group works together. I can't test trial execute phases. Good luck to those who are.

You guys ever run a bad random group? This isn't about having a competent group work together. This is about how well a healer can cover, and it hits two pain points caused by recent nerfs.

P.S. There are different types of healing situations. The type of players I need aren't on the PTS. Even if I had others to test with, it's hard for good players to sometimes even conceptualize a less skilled player. (How do you play someone who runs from the Olorime circle without trying to?) I think I found a good analogue. The Goblins don't think, they are merely straight forward.

I've run plenty of random groups. Im not trying to be mean, but i've gotten new players vFG I HM with BoL spam, and im only a decent player. I think it's premature to say everything is ok with a healing test in the easiest dungeon in the game, esspecially when you can mitigate the bosses AoE easily with mist form or whatever.. There is lots more testing to do.

Goblins, nor I, have mistform but this misses the point. We're using nerfed heals to escort npcs that will die in the easiest dungeon if you don't shepherd them correctly. But if you want a little more challenge, first half of Ash 1 gives you an NPC follower. See if you keep them alive through the first 3 bosses. The thrid one, top of cliff, will switch aggro to the npc, and you'll be putting that aoe sustain ability to the test.

PS, this though is for those who don't have another player to test healing.

HurryNowww

I’m a bit hesitant to post this as I don’t see it really mentioned but I’m an older player with arthritis in my hands and wrists and I simply can’t play dps toons. The dynamic rotations put a strain on my joints and it’s painful. I main healer and love love love this role in eso. Yes, I still experience aching but it’s easier on me. Tanking is also easier and I have a tank as well but healing is what I’m comfortable with. Healer’s role in eso is already not needed as much since a lot of content is completed with 3 dps and a tank but I make do. Please consider your older player base who may have the same joint issues. The nerfs to healing springs and orbs is awful and makes both my pve and pvp Templars useless.

SeaUnicorn

@HurryNowww
I don't have an arthritis, but I do have wrist injury. And yeah, I can feel the strain when playing dps for extended amount of time. Especially playing clunky stamcro. Can;t imagine how bad would that be in your case. I feel for you...
In current state of the things I would consider petsorc as an option, but it get gutted in 5.1...

Cinbri

What if remove Mutagen's low hp proc heal and make skill to cast on 2 targets instead, like now. So like vigor morphs where 1 is self and other is group, for Regen it will be nearly same - Rapid Regen strong HoT but target 1 ally, and Mutagen more prolonged HoT that can target 2 allies.

Vanady

I ran some dungeons (vet and also vet HM) on PTS with my Templar Healer this week. It worked fine for those dungeons I run with the healing spring and orb change.

Question is, does it work in situations, where you had to almost spam healing springs to keep everyone up? Like Assembly General HM, Sunspire ice boss HM etc. where you need a perfect placed group to get everyone in healing springs because the damage income is so high? I doubt that will work. I did not have the chance to test a trial on PTS yet.

Combat Prayer: If you want us to use combat prayer even more, you have to make the targeting better. For example it targets a person which is a bit out of the group, the skill aims to that person and not the way the character/we look. Also combat prayer will never replace healing springs, because it does not have the radius.

Orbs: I thought of seperating the synergies for shards and orbs again.

gabriebe

I think ZOS is severely underestimating the amount of healers in this game who really can't be arsed to relearn their role entirely just so they can perform worse than they used to before. Most healers only play healers, and switching from like magica templar to a stam warden healer just isn't gonna happen beyond the few end-game groups out there. And even then...

This change seems to be built around PvP, which definitely had issues with healing overperforming. But like... couldn't they just make healing AOEs be 75% less effective in PvP, or something like that? Or add a speed debuff or cap on heavy armor in Cyro?

Hotdog_23

Cinbri wrote: »

What if remove Mutagen's low hp proc heal and make skill to cast on 2 targets instead, like now. So like vigor morphs where 1 is self and other is group, for Regen it will be nearly same - Rapid Regen strong HoT but target 1 ally, and Mutagen more prolonged HoT that can target 2 allies.

Honestly to me this will be the most aggravating part of the changes. I go from 2 cast for 16-20 seconds to 4 in 10 seconds. Mutagen and a few burst heals when needed could keep a group alive for most 4 man dungeons. Combat prayer is nice but most pugs don't group together so generally you are only buffing one player or spending your time hunting the other player to use it on. That's what I loved about Mutagen is it lasted awhile and travelled with the person.

CerbinTalYalas

I'm not a top level PVE Healer, but I wanted to post two suggestions about a new way to change orbs in order to keep them useful while avoiding Orb spam. Here are my 2 ideas, both of them still working with the "one-at-a-time" aspect. I got these ideas while playing HealDen on the PTS

1. Fan of orbs : You fire 3 globes of regeneration in front of you that slowly floats forward... Any ally can activate the Healing combustion synergy, causing the orb to explode and heal for 882 Health to all friendly targets and restore 3960 Magicka or Stamina to the ally, whichever maximum is higher. The orb is not consumed on activation. (Works like Velidreth disease spores, allows you to cover a larger zone)
2. Fragmented orbs : Project a globe of regeneration that slowly floats forward... An ally can activate the Healing combustion synergy, healing for 882 Health to all friendly targets and restoring 3960 Magicka or Stamina to the ally, whichever maximum is higher, and causing the orb to split into 3 similar orbs that float forward in 3 different directions. The splitted orbs don't split on synergy activation. (My personnal favorite, still gives several orbs while allowing an original way to play them and rewarding intelligent activation of the synergy)

It might be an interesting way to reconsider how to use the orbs as a healer, while avoiding the "brainless orb spam" ZOS seems to try to avoid.

Iskiab

I posted something similar in the pvp healing thread, but I’m concerned stamina healers will be overtuned for PvE. I’m primarily a pvp player and have been approaching stam healers from a pvp perspective, but when I tried to quickly create a PvE Stam Healer this is what I came up with:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=163045

This build would likely require more stamina sustain to be realistic in a game situation, but the fact remains stam healing looks like it will be incredibly powerful.

The main culprit for the disparity is medium armour passives for weapon damage. Base values might be comparable between mag and stam skills but magicka does not have access to the strong weapon power buffs stamina does. In pvp there’s parity because of light armour passives but for mag healers the penetration passive from light armour has little value.

In addition, another issue is all healing abilities scale very well from damage stats with the +healing done stat being about equal in healing output. The problem with this is healing abilities are just as strong in full damage sets as healing sets for mag, and for stam weapon damage modifiers are typically more powerful then any +healing bonuses.

As a suggestion, I’d recommend reducing the magicka/stamina and wp/sp scaling of healing abilities and doubling all +healing modifiers on gear (except the mending buff). This will force players to spec for healing rather then having higher healing by pursuing damage stats.

As you can see from the live build using live abilities it’s possible for aoe abilities to be a full heal on stamina, and post patch they will be double the HPS of magicka or more depending on class.

On this build with the PTS changes echoing vigor will be around a 30k heal over 10 seconds on 6 players, so including crits just casting this ability twice in a trial will be 54k HPS without any raid buffs and is close to enough to heal vHoF solo... and that’s only two casts every 10 seconds.

apri

gabriebe wrote: »

This changed seems to be build around PvP, which definitely had issues with healing overperforming. But like... couldn't they just make healing AOEs be 75% less effective in PvP, or something like that? Or add a speed debuff or cap on heavy armor in Cyro?

The thing is - and that is why I said it would be highly beneficial for us to know the reasoning behind the PTS changes - we don't know if the change to healing springs and orbs is actually a balance issue or something else. I mean the true reason for the update. The change could as well be a desperate attempt to reduce the server load in intense combat situations (which at this point is highly speculative because we do not know). Take orbs, for example. Each green orb ticks each 0.5 second. Hitting a trial group with 5 such orbs can potentially create 100+ ticks per second that need to be processed. In pvp the number might even be higher than that. Stacking healing springs can create similar effects (meaning tasks that need to be processed in rapid succession for a lot of people) and both springs and orbs can be combined together with other stuff healers create, putting pressure on the server.

So we discuss the changes to healing from a balance perspective. But if ZOS does not change healing for this reason but to reduce server load, it's a totally different story and the feedback we give would have to be a different one, too. If it's not about reducing or changing healing per se but reducing stress on the servers aka performance, there might be other ways to consider and other feedback/suggestions we could provide to keep the healing about on the same level but with less stress on the servers.

However, the bottom line is this: We have no clue why ZOS does what they do. Therefore we cannot help to make those changes smoother from the player's perspective. We need better explanation and feedback for such major changes to provide our feedback in a meaningful way.

danara

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

Aznarb

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

Seraphayel

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

snarkomatic

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

Because, despite the fact that this does cause DPS to have healing capability, you know what it also does? It makes leveling as a healer viable. It makes contributing to overall group DPS viable. You clearly never healed in something like WoW early days where spell healing/damage were split stats, and you could heal until the end of the world but it took you 15 years to kill a generic starting-area wolf because your spell damage was the equivalent of you hoping to drown a grown man by spitting on him enough times.

We need solutions, but nerfing healers' ability to solo/dps into the ground is a solution I really, really hope ZoS never pursues.

Seraphayel

snarkomatic wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

Because, despite the fact that this does cause DPS to have healing capability, you know what it also does? It makes leveling as a healer viable. It makes contributing to overall group DPS viable. You clearly never healed in something like WoW early days where spell healing/damage were split stats, and you could heal until the end of the world but it took you 15 years to kill a generic starting-area wolf because your spell damage was the equivalent of you hoping to drown a grown man by spitting on him enough times.

We need solutions, but nerfing healers' ability to solo/dps into the ground is a solution I really, really hope ZoS never pursues.

I did heal in WoW when there was separate stuff for everything. Guess what, it worked. And in ESO, due to it's two weapons at a time feature, this wouldn't be a problem at all.

By the way, it was never that bad in WoW. You just couldn't be a healer or damage dealer at the same time (which back at that time wasn't possible at all unless you took your time to respec every time you wanted to change). I was a healer back then. Did it take some time? Yes, it did. That's why I am a healer. Where DPS had to wait longer for dungeon or raids I was quicker as a healer to get invited, DPS killed stuff faster solo and it took me more time. Not that much of an issue and this wouldn't be the case for ESO after all.

snarkomatic

Seraphayel wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

Because, despite the fact that this does cause DPS to have healing capability, you know what it also does? It makes leveling as a healer viable. It makes contributing to overall group DPS viable. You clearly never healed in something like WoW early days where spell healing/damage were split stats, and you could heal until the end of the world but it took you 15 years to kill a generic starting-area wolf because your spell damage was the equivalent of you hoping to drown a grown man by spitting on him enough times.

We need solutions, but nerfing healers' ability to solo/dps into the ground is a solution I really, really hope ZoS never pursues.

I did heal in WoW when there was separate stuff for everything. Guess what, it worked. And in ESO, due to it's two weapons at a time feature, this wouldn't be a problem at all.

By the way, it was never that bad in WoW. You just couldn't be a healer or damage dealer at the same time (which back at that time wasn't possible at all unless you took your time to respec every time you wanted to change). I was a healer back then. Did it take some time? Yes, it did. That's why I am a healer. Where DPS had to wait longer for dungeon or raids I was quicker as a healer to get invited, DPS killed stuff faster solo and it took me more time. Not that much of an issue and this wouldn't be the case for ESO after all.

Yeah, and that "go to your trainer to pay a respec fee every time you want to solo anything" worked so well that they ...... got rid of the function altogether. So, yeah, sure. It functioned. But it wasn't a good thing, and no one misses it. No one.

HaemaMagus

snarkomatic wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

Because, despite the fact that this does cause DPS to have healing capability, you know what it also does? It makes leveling as a healer viable. It makes contributing to overall group DPS viable. You clearly never healed in something like WoW early days where spell healing/damage were split stats, and you could heal until the end of the world but it took you 15 years to kill a generic starting-area wolf because your spell damage was the equivalent of you hoping to drown a grown man by spitting on him enough times.

We need solutions, but nerfing healers' ability to solo/dps into the ground is a solution I really, really hope ZoS never pursues.

Nerfing my healer's ability to solo or do dps wouldn't bother me. Infact the opposite does. I don't want to have to do dps. I prefer to heal and buff and debuff as needed. Sure if I can toss some dps here and there inbetween keeping my group alive I'll do it but that should be so far at the bottom of what is required of my role it should be negligent.

snarkomatic

HaemaMagus wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

danara wrote: »

@Iskiab i am a healer since 5 year, very disapointed with the different healing change... (magicka) i am looking at your post, and i find it very interesting

I will compare hircine with the worm, and powerful assault with olorime/spc

Is there no way to buff ally with a similiar buff of combat prayer ?

What about debuffing ennemies ? What do you think of running a destro staff for blockade (even if you dont do any damage) for the off balance proc + punction ?

Why did you put 2 weapons on the main bar ? Idk the passives i never played stam, why didnt you put a bow on the main bar ? Then you can stay away from ennemy ?

Do you have any thought with an other stam healer class ? Im thinking about templar with the debuff power of the Light (i love this one, i play it on m'y mag healer)

Do you think that in the Next patch you ll have to run one stam healer for the healing output, and one magicka healer for the buff/debuff ?

Sorry with all these questions, but your thought is interesting

Thanks a lot if you answzr that

The problem with these stam heal is : they do not belong to a line.
Every stam dps can take them and heal as much cuz it's scale on weap dmg.
So it's not about making stam healer, but more about remove healer and let dps heal themselves.

Stam healer are already a thing, even if no competitive rn, but the way stam healing is implemented is a huge problem.

The problem is how healing scales with damage modifiers and not how accessible those healing skills are.

Spell damage / weapon damage benefiting healing strength? Uhm... there you have one of the problems.

Because, despite the fact that this does cause DPS to have healing capability, you know what it also does? It makes leveling as a healer viable. It makes contributing to overall group DPS viable. You clearly never healed in something like WoW early days where spell healing/damage were split stats, and you could heal until the end of the world but it took you 15 years to kill a generic starting-area wolf because your spell damage was the equivalent of you hoping to drown a grown man by spitting on him enough times.

We need solutions, but nerfing healers' ability to solo/dps into the ground is a solution I really, really hope ZoS never pursues.

Nerfing my healer's ability to solo or do dps wouldn't bother me. Infact the opposite does. I don't want to have to do dps. I prefer to heal and buff and debuff as needed. Sure if I can toss some dps here and there inbetween keeping my group alive I'll do it but that should be so far at the bottom of what is required of my role it should be negligent.

I don't think healers should be required to bring 25k dps in order to be welcome in a trial, but that's, again, something ZoS needs to address re: DPS power creep and mechanics being completely circumvented by that creep. I do not want my ability to DPS to be nerfed. Most of us don't. We like being powerful healers and viable for solo content without swapping up too much of our build. Especially on console, where we have no add-ons to help us, and ZoS has consistently refused to implement UI updates/QoL necessities.

Stop asking for more healer nerfs, and focus on what would actually help us.