Sick of how much stuff you change every Patch

Vlad9425

Please understand this ZOS. People play games to have fun. We don't play your content to progress, farm item sets, set up unique builds to then have you completely change how the whole game operates every patch. All the changes you keep making in these patches end up making the classes and skills in the game lose more and more identity every time in favor of "balance" which you are still failing to achieve because some of the buffs and nerfs you are making are simply baffling. Everyone who defends these changes always says "well you'll just have to adapt" but they fail to realize we've been "adapting" for years. The game has never been this bad in years in terms of actually having an enjoyable experience while playing in my opinion.

I'm all for making subtle changes and nerfing things that are downright broken but you're not doing this, you're flipping everything we know and love upside down and it's becoming hard to recognize what this game is becoming. Just my opinion.

Huyen

I played WoW for about 12 years, and with every major expansion there was a complete class overhaul with a bunch of tweaks in between through patches. Its normal that they need to adjust stuff. ESO aint that bad in that regard.

Alucardo

To be honest, this is probably the bulkiest of changes they've made in a long time, and it was well overdue. The game was suffering from serious balance issues with the small patches they were applying every so often. So doing a single huge one and reworking a bunch of stuff in one go was probably a good idea.
We can now see they want medium armor to have ways to escape, they want SnB to be used primarily for tanking, heavy armor is more of a hybrid than pure damage set now, making sure people offer utility to get the bonuses.
It gives us more of an insight into what they want for the game and we can adapt around that, or cry on the forum about it. Personally I choose the former.

Alucardo

Huyen wrote: »

I played WoW for about 12 years, and with every major expansion there was a complete class overhaul with a bunch of tweaks in between through patches. Its normal that they need to adjust stuff. ESO aint that bad in that regard.

Sometimes it's for the best. Thanks to 8.2 my frost dk isn't utter garbage anymore

Reverb

Counterpoint: Some people do play the game to progress, theory craft builds, and are driven to be the top performer. Without frequent changes the game becomes stale for them. Just because it’s not how you enjoy the game doesn’t invalidate the playerbase that does.

And if that’s not how you enjoy the game, these changes don’t really impact you tha much. If you aren’t aiming for content progression, you won’t be held back by your 3-year old build and sets.

Another viewpoint: a huge pocket of the playerbase enjoys the mercantile and trading component of the game. Frequent changes keep the demand for mats up. Farming and selling mats is also one of the ways that new players can amass wealth, and many of them do. If there are no build changes, that market dries up and there’s far less gold exchanging hands.

therift

While the changes in Update 22 and the proposed changes for Update 23 may seem overwhelming, keep in mind three things:

1) ZoS changed the Lead Combat Designer in January. The previous LCD had been in that role from the beginning. The new LDC brings new ideas and philosophy to the table, which means change.

2) Back in April, the LDC published a lengthy letter outlining his intentions for future development. The first step is to audit every skill, passive, and set in the game, identify things which may be out of whack from the norm, and apply a common set of rules to how things should work going forward. This is a huge undertaking. ZoS has added an enormous amount of content relative to other MMOs, and many of the additions were haphazard. This created a number of imbalances.

3) The second step, once audits are complete, will be to go back to skills and sets for improvement. This will be far easier to do from a balanced perspective, since effects and abilities will follow common rulesets. Impacts of changes will be easier to predict, and there will be far fewer instances of unforseen OP results

An additional benefit of audit and standardization will be improved performance. Reduction if unique calculations should, in theory, enable coders to better utilize processing capability. With standardized rulesets, performance improvements will be less experimental and easier to implement.


This means that for 2019, expect upheavals. In 2020, expect tremendous progress in performance, gameplay, and enjoyment.

Vlad9425

Reverb wrote: »

Counterpoint: Some people do play the game to progress, theory craft builds, and are driven to be the top performer. Without frequent changes the game becomes stale for them. Just because it’s not how you enjoy the game doesn’t invalidate the playerbase that does.

And if that’s not how you enjoy the game, these changes don’t really impact you tha much. If you aren’t aiming for content progression, you won’t be held back by your 3-year old build and sets.

Another viewpoint: a huge pocket of the playerbase enjoys the mercantile and trading component of the game. Frequent changes keep the demand for mats up. Farming and selling mats is also one of the ways that new players can amass wealth, and many of them do. If there are no build changes, that market dries up and there’s far less gold exchanging hands.

I have no problem with frequent additions to gear sets etc and new dungeons & trials but I don't see why the classes and skills need to go through ridiculous changes all the time. Its very frustrating to log in each patch to have your class be changed drastically. All these changes don't matter to new players because they haven't played the game but people who have played and supported this game for years this is very frustrating and honestly its just not fun to play my favorite classes anymore.

Icy_Waffles

I think for me personally.... I don’t like huge nerfs. I finally gear a character, work on rotation and boom: huge changes and all my work is obsolete. I have characters for all classes (a few need more leveling) and while I am not a meta chaser, I do want to play something beneficial to group content, as well as my own personal style and needs.

I really sort of hope they can get their “new rules” straightened out, and then work on moving forward so the changes are less drastic and big.

Right now it’s very frustrating and almost makes you not want to play or invest.

ZarkingFrued

Dear ZOS just stop

rumple9

Didn't you know OP that MMOs are an endless grind. That's how they keep going so long

Kiralyn2000

Huyen wrote: »

I played WoW for about 12 years, and with every major expansion there was a complete class overhaul with a bunch of tweaks in between through patches. Its normal that they need to adjust stuff. ESO aint that bad in that regard.

I know, right? Welcome to MMO.


(and heck, with the whole "live game" thing, it's spreading to plenty of other genres, too. ARPGs like Path Of Exile change up their rules every patch; PvP games like Overwatch & Fortnite; etc . .)

Vlad9425

rumple9 wrote: »

Didn't you know OP that MMOs are an endless grind. That's how they keep going so long

Of course I know MMOs are a grind, I've been playing them for years but they are changing so much each patch that many people are just tired of seeing it. If I can no longer recognize or have fun playing a class which was actually a reason that I started to play this game for in the first place then what is the point in continuing to play this game? I have spoken to many people who feel the same way about these changes all the time but sure if you want things to keep changing then I guess you'll love what they're doing.

Kadoin

Huyen wrote: »

I played WoW for about 12 years, and with every major expansion there was a complete class overhaul with a bunch of tweaks in between through patches. Its normal that they need to adjust stuff. ESO aint that bad in that regard.

But people who play ESO don't want to play WOW.

RebornV3x

Nerfs like this is just bad game design nobody wants to spend there hard earned money and thousands of hours of game time to get progressively weaker every patch this is how you lose customers.

whteva4eva

I love these nerfs tbh

Taloros

I welcome that the development team is so active. But maybe, a little less activity and a bit more planning would help to make things run smoother.

Example:

Last patch, Caltrops got a huge buff.
Next patch, Caltrops gets a huge nerf.

I fail to see the sense in that. The last buff made the skill too powerful, and that was easy to see. It dealt damage like an AoE burst PLUS damage as an AoE DoT. Now it's being nerfed again, which brings it back a sensible level. But why change it in the first place?
Also, the skill now has become a burst AoE with a minor DoT applied to it, whereas it started as a pure DoT. The nature of the skill was changed without any apparent reason.

If the dev team had thought things through from the beginning, no change would have been needed at all, and we wouldn't have to switch skills, relearn rotations and respecc every patch.

therift

Taloros wrote: »

I welcome that the development team is so active. But maybe, a little less activity and a bit more planning would help to make things run smoother.

Example:

Last patch, Caltrops got a huge buff.
Next patch, Caltrops gets a huge nerf.

I fail to see the sense in that. The last buff made the skill too powerful, and that was easy to see. It dealt damage like a AoE burst PLUS damage as an AoE DoT. Now it's being nerfed again, which brings it back a sensible level. But why change it in the first place?
Also, the skill now has become a burst AoE with a minor DoT applied to it, whereas it started as a pure DoT. The nature of the skill was changed without any apparent reason.

If the dev team had thought things through from the beginning, no change would have been needed at all, and we wouldn't have to switch skills, relearn rotations and respecc every patch.

I think that as they are working through this audit, they're changing thier minds about the role of some of the skills... which means the skill has to change again to conform to a different ruleset.

I expect quite a few of these back-n-forth changes, honestly

PoppaVape

I have no problem with frequent additions to gear sets etc and new dungeons & trials but I don't see why the classes and skills need to go through ridiculous changes all the time. Its very frustrating to log in each patch to have your class be changed drastically. All these changes don't matter to new players because they haven't played the game but people who have played and supported this game for years this is very frustrating and honestly its just not fun to play my favorite classes anymore.

It can be frustrating but I can see (and like) what they are trying to accomplish. I have at least 2 characters in every class. Most patches I decide on which ones sound fun to play. This way I only have a few characters to worry about outfitting/relearning. I may not like everything that they are doing but I still believe it is the best MMO currently on the market.

Ex_Draconis

Sometimes it does seem like they don’t know what they are doing. For instance, didn’t they just recently buff Bloody Mara just to nerf it in the very next patch? Maybe I read it wrong.

ccfeeling

whteva4eva wrote: »

I love these nerfs tbh

Can you tell us why ?

ManwithBeard9

therift wrote: »

While the changes in Update 22 and the proposed changes for Update 23 may seem overwhelming, keep in mind three things:

1) ZoS changed the Lead Combat Designer in January. The previous LCD had been in that role from the beginning. The new LDC brings new ideas and philosophy to the table, which means change.

2) Back in April, the LDC published a lengthy letter outlining his intentions for future development. The first step is to audit every skill, passive, and set in the game, identify things which may be out of whack from the norm, and apply a common set of rules to how things should work going forward. This is a huge undertaking. ZoS has added an enormous amount of content relative to other MMOs, and many of the additions were haphazard. This created a number of imbalances.

3) The second step, once audits are complete, will be to go back to skills and sets for improvement. This will be far easier to do from a balanced perspective, since effects and abilities will follow common rulesets. Impacts of changes will be easier to predict, and there will be far fewer instances of unforseen OP results

An additional benefit of audit and standardization will be improved performance. Reduction if unique calculations should, in theory, enable coders to better utilize processing capability. With standardized rulesets, performance improvements will be less experimental and easier to implement.


This means that for 2019, expect upheavals. In 2020, expect tremendous progress in performance, gameplay, and enjoyment.

This, a million times over. If people didnt see major changes coming after the announcement and lengthy post, then you need to get your head out of the sand. Wheeler has a plan, a much more solid one than Wrobel seemed to have, if there was one at all really.

Rikumaru

Changes needed to be made sooner than later. So many mistakes have been made with this game over the years and now they are doing this patch to try to revert those mistakes. I'm sure balance will be all over the place next patch, but the game will be in a much healthier and fun state. I absolutely cannot wait for next patch.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

I think ground effects being used for AoE and dots being buffed to apply on the boss instead is a welcome needed change from a magicka point of view.

code65536

Reverb wrote: »

Counterpoint: Some people do play the game to progress, theory craft builds, and are driven to be the top performer.

That's what new content and new challenges are for.

Neoealth

ZOS must be the spawn of Lorkhan, always driven by constant change and turmoil.

Browiseth

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Counterpoint: Some people do play the game to progress, theory craft builds, and are driven to be the top performer. Without frequent changes the game becomes stale for them. Just because it’s not how you enjoy the game doesn’t invalidate the playerbase that does.

And if that’s not how you enjoy the game, these changes don’t really impact you tha much. If you aren’t aiming for content progression, you won’t be held back by your 3-year old build and sets.

Another viewpoint: a huge pocket of the playerbase enjoys the mercantile and trading component of the game. Frequent changes keep the demand for mats up. Farming and selling mats is also one of the ways that new players can amass wealth, and many of them do. If there are no build changes, that market dries up and there’s far less gold exchanging hands.

I have no problem with frequent additions to gear sets etc and new dungeons & trials but I don't see why the classes and skills need to go through ridiculous changes all the time. Its very frustrating to log in each patch to have your class be changed drastically. All these changes don't matter to new players because they haven't played the game but people who have played and supported this game for years this is very frustrating and honestly its just not fun to play my favorite classes anymore.

changes all the time?

mate we get 4 major balance changes a year. that's not all the time. if you ask me, this game doesn't get changed enough.