Can We Keep Increasing CP Cap to 900?

WrathOfInnos

Seems like a better number than 810 if we’re going to set a cap for a long period of time. This would allow 300 CP’s of each color to be assigned, or average 100 in each constellation, or 25 in each star. It’s 1/4 of the 3600 hard cap to fill everything star.

Some may argue that 810 is a good number because it allows doing 120-120-30 or 120-75-75 in any particular color. While these are important points to hit for the bonus starts, I feel like this is actually more limiting in player freedom to place points where they want. Having extra points with some flexibility about which constellation they go into (without losing a major bonus star) would make things more interesting.

For those concerned about power creep, I did the math on this. Most Magicka DPS would gain around 4% DPS from these 30 blue points (it would enable them to more easily reach 75 thaumaturge for exploited against off-balance enemies, and slightly narrow the DPS gap between stamina and magicka). For stamina DPS, the 30 points would only be 2-3% DPS since they are already able to get all the important bonus stars. The nice thing about more CP’s for stam DPS is that it would allow more investment in Piercing, which would make them less tied to Sharpened weapons or sets with a Physical Penetration bonus (Tzogvin, TFS, Kragh, etc.), and allow more gear diversity like we see on the Magicka side (where many different sets and weapon traits all perform competitively).

This simple change would also help with the feeling of character progression for those that continue to invest large amounts of time in this game. I know it’s very slight improvement numerically, but it still is more rewarding than the current system. A nearly unnoticeable increase is much better psychologically than getting to be point where gaining experience is a literal waste of time.

It would also help to bridge the gap while the devs figure out what the CP system will become long-term.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

I agree with this.

Aliyavana

Id prefer they delete cp

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I actually wonder if this wouldnt cause more problems than it solves. The game is balanced (albeit not perfectly) around CP. For example, if they removed CP overnight, a large chunk of vet DLC content would instantly become unplayable for a good chunk of the playerbase.

To the OP, you have my support. It aint worth much, but you got it! Haha

xMovingTarget

I am down. 900 is a good number. 810 is just odd. Time to make it even. And those 90 CP wont affect the so called power creep much.

xMovingTarget

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I actually wonder if this wouldnt cause more problems than it solves. The game is balanced (albeit not perfectly) around CP. For example, if they removed CP overnight, a large chunk of vet DLC content would instantly become unplayable for a good chunk of the playerbase.

To the OP, you have my support. It aint worth much, but you got it! Haha

They would have to adjust the whole game. Just like they did back when update 6 came out.
But now, since they cant even make a single class work properly. I would not want them to touch those systems. AT ALL.

Duduck_III

oh no ,I finally approach 800 cp, let me reach the cap once before increasing lol

xMovingTarget

As I said, I am down for 900

idk

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

WrathOfInnos

idk wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

If changing the system was happening soon I could see that, but it seems like it was frozen at the moment they had the conversation about maybe changing it in the future. We’ve now been stuck at 810 for several months, without any word of where the system will go in the future. The freeze was at a pretty arbitrary point in time, and 810 is not the best semi-permanent cap. Wouldn’t really harm anything to keep the old system (slow constant increases) in place up to a designated point, until a new system is developed.

idk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

If changing the system was happening soon I could see that, but it seems like it was frozen at the moment they had the conversation about maybe changing it in the future. We’ve now been stuck at 810 for several months, without any word of where the system will go in the future. The freeze was at a pretty arbitrary point in time, and 810 is not the best semi-permanent cap. Wouldn’t really harm anything to keep the old system (slow constant increases) in place up to a designated point, until a new system is developed.

It makes sense to freeze the system while figuring out what to do. That funky logic thing does get in the way sometimes.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Just delete CP tbh. They say its a bad system, remove it and reduce enemy health in higher end trials by like 20% to match.

Not that -20% HP on raid bosses would instantly re-balance things, but it would certainly take the edge of it.

CP is a *** system, they admit its a *** system, and yet its just lingering while they talk about replacing it but clearly have no good ideas yet.

code65536

If ZOS actually gave a damn about power creep, they wouldn't have added Major Vulnerability and Tooth of Lokkestiiz.

WrathOfInnos

idk wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

If changing the system was happening soon I could see that, but it seems like it was frozen at the moment they had the conversation about maybe changing it in the future. We’ve now been stuck at 810 for several months, without any word of where the system will go in the future. The freeze was at a pretty arbitrary point in time, and 810 is not the best semi-permanent cap. Wouldn’t really harm anything to keep the old system (slow constant increases) in place up to a designated point, until a new system is developed.

It makes sense to freeze the system while figuring out what to do. That funky logic thing does get in the way sometimes.

Lol, logic is not one of my weaknesses. The point of this discussion was for a logical CP cap of 900 (25% of available points or 100 points per constellation), to replace the current 810 (22.5% or 90 points per constellation).

MisterBigglesworth

idk wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

So I think the better discussion would be ideas for the eventual overhaul.

My suggestion would be to transform the whole thing into a talent system where there are 100 different talents available, but you can only have 10 of them active at a time. You will be encouraged to swap your talents often due their highly specific functions, so this will be something you can do for FREE when in a town.

You will also be able to swap talents out in the world, dungeons, cyrodiil, etc (not in combat), but here's how it works: Champion Points have now become an account-wide currency, which you can spend on swapping Champion talents. Cost: 1 point = 1 talent swap.

The "champion points" currency would be earned at a MUCH higher rate than current champion points are, and you can therefore opt out of receiving notifications when you earn 1 point. We would be compensated for our current CPs at a 10-to-1 ratio, hence if you are currently sitting at 900CP, after the update you would receive 9,000 "champion points" (the currency) on your account currency tab. That should be plenty even if you have 15 max level characters - purchase 10 talents on each of them, 150 points total, on the first day after the patch. We would likely earn 10 "champion points" currency per hour playing casually, not grinding.

If you don't foresee a need to change talents a lot, "champion points" currency can also be traded to certain vendors in exchange for alliance points, recipes, housing items, etc. They cannot be traded to other players.

The talents would all need to be somewhat interesting, similar to what some of the more interesting 5-piece bonuses provide, BUT the big difference would be that they are all class-specific and would be much more niche. I recognize that having the equivalent of 10 more 5-piece set bonuses would be a balancing nightmare, so the rule of thumb is: if it's a really powerful effect, there's a very high threshold to activate it. Here's an example for Sorc: if your pet receives a killing blow while above 50% health, your next AOE ability (damage or healing) will instantly re-summon your pet and grant you and your pet a 20% shield. Since it is unlikely for your pet to die in this exact manner, and since it requires you to realize what happened and react accordingly, it's a reasonable amount of extra power. By itself it's not a huge buff, but imagine combining this with 9 other similarly effective talents. Imagine all extra player agency this provides while at the same time not being something that happens automatically without player input (like how proc sets and indeed the current CP passives work).

Morgul667

Im in for CP900

idk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

idk wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It makes a lot of sense to keep the CP cap where it is while Zos reviews the system for possible changes.

It would have been odd and not well though thought out for Zos to say we are going to freeze the CP cap a year from now while we review the CP system now for possible changes. That is exactly what OP is asking for.

If changing the system was happening soon I could see that, but it seems like it was frozen at the moment they had the conversation about maybe changing it in the future. We’ve now been stuck at 810 for several months, without any word of where the system will go in the future. The freeze was at a pretty arbitrary point in time, and 810 is not the best semi-permanent cap. Wouldn’t really harm anything to keep the old system (slow constant increases) in place up to a designated point, until a new system is developed.

It makes sense to freeze the system while figuring out what to do. That funky logic thing does get in the way sometimes.

Lol, logic is not one of my weaknesses. The point of this discussion was for a logical CP cap of 900 (25% of available points or 100 points per constellation), to replace the current 810 (22.5% or 90 points per constellation).

Wanting nice round numbers is not very significant. That is my point. I think we will be just fine at 810 for the duration of this review. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Taleof2Cities

@idk is right.

ZOS isn’t going to all of a sudden renege on their promise to keep the cap in place ... until an alternate system is implemented (in place of CP).

Raising the cap to cater to “character progression” would send the wrong message.

WrathOfInnos

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@idk is right.

ZOS isn’t going to all of a sudden renege on their promise to keep the cap in place ... until an alternate system is implemented (in place of CP).

Raising the cap to cater to “character progression” would send the wrong message.

Definitely a possibility. I wouldn’t say they promised anything though, just paused the system to re-evaluate. I was expecting to see some changes with Elsweyr, but that did not happen and there is no news about an upcoming CP revamp. Seems like we could keep the old system in place while we’re all waiting, and maybe find a cleaner stopping point if they decide the cap should be permanent.

RebornV3x

they just need to scrap the whole CP system all together

Corpier

I'd prefer the champion point system be replaced or reworked into more of a perk/talent trees that would compliment/augment class and role instead of blanket x% based passives.

That being said, cp doesn't seem to be going any where presently or any time soon, and as long as we have it then 900 would be a better number to freeze on for reasons previously mentioned by others in the thread.

SaintSubwayy

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I actually wonder if this wouldnt cause more problems than it solves. The game is balanced (albeit not perfectly) around CP. For example, if they removed CP overnight, a large chunk of vet DLC content would instantly become unplayable for a good chunk of the playerbase.

To the OP, you have my support. It aint worth much, but you got it! Haha

Summoned up nicely

If you see Hodor running vSS HM and only manage to get the Speedrun in with 1-2mins left....it would simply be impossible to get the Trippleachievement done.
Not even Talking about healing icecage on Lokke....prob even vSS non HM would become a pain since you'd need both healers healing icecage on Lokke etc.

They cannot simply remove CP without adressing every single achievement / dungeon / trial / aarena to be fair and balanced towards non CP.
and the work needed to adress all these points is just insane.

idk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@idk is right.

ZOS isn’t going to all of a sudden renege on their promise to keep the cap in place ... until an alternate system is implemented (in place of CP).

Raising the cap to cater to “character progression” would send the wrong message.

Definitely a possibility. I wouldn’t say they promised anything though, just paused the system to re-evaluate. I was expecting to see some changes with Elsweyr, but that did not happen and there is no news about an upcoming CP revamp. Seems like we could keep the old system in place while we’re all waiting, and maybe find a cleaner stopping point if they decide the cap should be permanent.

Zos did promise something. That they would review it/re-evaluate it as you have said. Personally I hope Zos gives this a more thoughtful pass over than they did when CP was created as the talk on the PTS that cycle was that the full 3600 points was OP.

That is significant because there was no artificial cap when it launched and Zos expected the average player to reach the cap in less than 2 years time. That was just crazy.

So yes, I am glad they did not do a rush evaluation and roll it out with Elsweyr. It also make sense that it would come at time during this period of time Zos is implementing the overall changes they make. Probably near the end of this cycle.

With that, Zos did leave the current system in place. They just froze increasing the artificial cap by the meager 30 points a quarter. Something we are hardly missing since damage is still increasing with each pass.

Wise_Will

Got to 1,000 instead, its a better number than 900

xMovingTarget

1000 is even worse than 810

Instead of 270 per color you get 333 333 334. that even more odd.

Darkenarlol

unlock the cap and make every CP gives you 1 (one) stat point

so even at 3600 you'll just have extra 1200 of each stat

so we can at least feel some progression with all those CP above cap =D

Turelus

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I am in this camp as well, although I would like them to have least paused on a number which doesn't bug me as much, 900 would have been nice.

Fawn4287

PVE kids want to throw the already poorly balanced game out more to make the content they play easier but screech if a change is made for PVP that impacts them negatively in any way. Unfortunately ZOS has realised that appeasing PVE questing scrubs makes money and PVP maintenance and performance doesn’t.

Alucardo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I actually wonder if this wouldnt cause more problems than it solves. The game is balanced (albeit not perfectly) around CP.

People keep telling me that it's balanced around CP, yet I have a much better time playing no cp campaigns. The fights are more interesting, and I never have to walk away because nobody is dying.

kojou

I support 900. It just looks nicer.

idk

Turelus wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Id prefer they delete cp

I am in this camp as well, although I would like them to have least paused on a number which doesn't bug me as much, 900 would have been nice.

It was a poor design from the start. However, Zos was in a bind as players tend to get upset when you have them work for something then take it away. The issue is they overthought the fix and created an even bigger mess.

They would have been better off just changing the vet ranks to actual character levels and tack them onto the first 50. Would have been much simpler for players and for Zos to manage the game.