No Event Tickets for honest work?

Austinseph1

if You think a heist is villainous you must literally just fish, even then it’s innocent fish murder LOL

Michae

Another one of those threads? Is your concern rp or do you really refuse to do a no no in a video game because it's bad in real life? Yes, I've seen people like that too.

I won't say anything new but if it's rp then roll a new character if you care so much. Thieves Guild already has more of a Robin Hood feel to it than anything like a villanous mafia organisation. They steal from bandits and rich people, you don't even get a bounty when you get caught.

Even sacraments are often some cultist cave parties where you have to kill some morally dubious guy.

It's just a game, events don't really have to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone. I for one am doing all the events, even though some are out of my comfort zone. I don't really like Cyrodiil pvp and yet I did all of the achievements on that one, it turned out pretty fun and it's a point of pride for me (if one can really feel pride from a video game ). And the truth is that TG and DB are some of my favourite content for this game and are pretty straightforward event wise. Go to a base, get quest, you get teleported to a location, do the thing, get reward. Done. Compare it to New Load Festival or Morrowind event where you had to manually go to the location of the quest and then go back, sometimes needing assistance of other players, with boss for example. Or when you had to cue up for a broken dungeon que. This event's pretty cool in that regard.

And if you're really worried about doing bad things in a video game then grow up. It's not real, and it doesn't have really any realistic quality to it. Dark Brotherhood people are cartoonishly evil, they only lack moustaches to twirl.

Cinbri

Michae wrote: »

Another one of those threads? Is your concern rp or do you really refuse to do a no no in a video game because it's bad in real life? Yes, I've seen people like that too.

I won't say anything new but if it's rp then roll a new character if you care so much. Thieves Guild already has more of a Robin Hood feel to it than anything like a villanous mafia organisation. They steal from bandits and rich people, you don't even get a bounty when you get caught.

Even sacraments are often some cultist cave parties where you have to kill some morally dubious guy.

It's just a game, events don't really have to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone. I for one am doing all the events, even though some are out of my comfort zone. I don't really like Cyrodiil pvp and yet I did all of the achievements on that one, it turned out pretty fun and it's a point of pride for me (if one can really feel pride from a video game ). And the truth is that TG and DB are some of my favourite content for this game and are pretty straightforward event wise. Go to a base, get quest, you get teleported to a location, do the thing, get reward. Done. Compare it to New Load Festival or Morrowind event where you had to manually go to the location of the quest and then go back, sometimes needing assistance of other players, with boss for example. Or when you had to cue up for a broken dungeon que. This event's pretty cool in that regard.

And if you're really worried about doing bad things in a video game then grow up. It's not real, and it doesn't have really any realistic quality to it. Dark Brotherhood people are cartoonishly evil, they only lack moustaches to twirl.

That what generation z keep say. Yet it was already numerous psychological researches about moral choices in video games and all claim same result - choices made by real life morality of person doing it, his conscious and subconscious desires and society rules. People who think that they can freely kill non-hostile civilians/children in video game because it just bunch of pixels and have nothing to do with real world - deeply inside they just unstable persons who without social restrictions and taboo would become yet another criminals.

lookstwice

Say what?

Michae

Cinbri wrote: »

Michae wrote: »

Another one of those threads? Is your concern rp or do you really refuse to do a no no in a video game because it's bad in real life? Yes, I've seen people like that too.

I won't say anything new but if it's rp then roll a new character if you care so much. Thieves Guild already has more of a Robin Hood feel to it than anything like a villanous mafia organisation. They steal from bandits and rich people, you don't even get a bounty when you get caught.

Even sacraments are often some cultist cave parties where you have to kill some morally dubious guy.

It's just a game, events don't really have to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone. I for one am doing all the events, even though some are out of my comfort zone. I don't really like Cyrodiil pvp and yet I did all of the achievements on that one, it turned out pretty fun and it's a point of pride for me (if one can really feel pride from a video game ). And the truth is that TG and DB are some of my favourite content for this game and are pretty straightforward event wise. Go to a base, get quest, you get teleported to a location, do the thing, get reward. Done. Compare it to New Load Festival or Morrowind event where you had to manually go to the location of the quest and then go back, sometimes needing assistance of other players, with boss for example. Or when you had to cue up for a broken dungeon que. This event's pretty cool in that regard.

And if you're really worried about doing bad things in a video game then grow up. It's not real, and it doesn't have really any realistic quality to it. Dark Brotherhood people are cartoonishly evil, they only lack moustaches to twirl.

That what generation z keep say. Yet it was already numerous psychological researches about moral choices in video games and all claim same result - choices made by real life morality of person doing it, his conscious and subconscious desires and society rules. People who think that they can freely kill non-hostile civilians/children in video game because it just bunch of pixels and have nothing to do with real world - deeply inside they just unstable persons who without social restrictions and taboo would become yet another criminals.

Show me the study. From what I've seen so far it's the exact opposite. People see real difference between acts of violence in fiction, be it films or video games, and real thing. Yes, people can see difference between fiction and real life. Shocking isn't it? Somehow we don't have an influx of criminal activity each time a new GTA game is released. I'm 30, I've been playing video games all my life and yet I haven't even been in a fight irl, nor did I commit any other crime. And I never wanted to do anything like that. And what you said in your last sentence is basically that if there were no social norms then people wouldn't commit to said norms. Well duh.

And ESO is anything but realistic. The violence presented in it is a cartoon, it really has nothing to do with real life. And real life norms exist because your actions have real consequences. If someone dies they don't magically respawn in a minute or two. That's what keeps societies in check. And people know the difference easily. Most people don't have problems with watching a violent action film or playing a violent game but they wouldn't want to watch a snuff film for example, because they can tell what's real and what's not.

MattT1988

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Event tickets don't start till 10AM EST... Havent started yet...

Still won't get anything without doing something villainous, will I?

You could always make a stealthy Assassin character that steals and kills.
Or you could just remember that your character is just a bunch of pixels and is not a real person, so you could just go ahead and do them anyway. It’s not like any of the NPC’s will treat your character any differently.

redlink1979

Another thread that just makes me laugh.

Uryel

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Never did any heist or sacrament thing ever.

Am I being punished for that?

Actually, the punishment is having to do those missions. They are awful. Perfect exemple of what stealth is NOT about.

Don't worry if you're not playing a Khajiit, it doesn't matter. You can have all the stealth you can, and even top that with an invisibility potion, you will be detecte the moment your toe brushes the light circle from the magic lanterns the guards are carrying.

Your map is useless, as many things are hidden in rooms that don't even appear on them. And the map doesn't update "for good" when you find those places. It's only for the duration of that mission, next time you come there, the map will have "forgotten" that you updated it.

Traps, holes in the ground and whatnot are placed so that they are the hardest to see, although that may be due to my own lighting settings.

And the worst of all : the senseless timers. Some guy went through the trouble of posting an add on a board in the thief's den, wait until someone took the heist, but suddenly you have exactly 5 minutes to get it, or he will run out of patience. In the case of assassination, you have all the time you need, until you killed your target. Even if no one has seen you ever, some magic 6th sense will bring some big bad tough guy around and you must rush the exit NOW.

Those missions are not about stealth, as stealth has no effect on them. They're just about timing. Basically, they are big, badly cobbled together quick time events.

albesca

Cinbri wrote: »

That what generation z keep say. Yet it was already numerous psychological researches about moral choices in video games and all claim same result - choices made by real life morality of person doing it, his conscious and subconscious desires and society rules.

No studies linking Mario Kart to joyriding? Kirby to cannibalism? Pokemon to slavery?

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Cinbri wrote: »

Michae wrote: »

Another one of those threads? Is your concern rp or do you really refuse to do a no no in a video game because it's bad in real life? Yes, I've seen people like that too.

I won't say anything new but if it's rp then roll a new character if you care so much. Thieves Guild already has more of a Robin Hood feel to it than anything like a villanous mafia organisation. They steal from bandits and rich people, you don't even get a bounty when you get caught.

Even sacraments are often some cultist cave parties where you have to kill some morally dubious guy.

It's just a game, events don't really have to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone. I for one am doing all the events, even though some are out of my comfort zone. I don't really like Cyrodiil pvp and yet I did all of the achievements on that one, it turned out pretty fun and it's a point of pride for me (if one can really feel pride from a video game ). And the truth is that TG and DB are some of my favourite content for this game and are pretty straightforward event wise. Go to a base, get quest, you get teleported to a location, do the thing, get reward. Done. Compare it to New Load Festival or Morrowind event where you had to manually go to the location of the quest and then go back, sometimes needing assistance of other players, with boss for example. Or when you had to cue up for a broken dungeon que. This event's pretty cool in that regard.

And if you're really worried about doing bad things in a video game then grow up. It's not real, and it doesn't have really any realistic quality to it. Dark Brotherhood people are cartoonishly evil, they only lack moustaches to twirl.

That what generation z keep say. Yet it was already numerous psychological researches about moral choices in video games and all claim same result - choices made by real life morality of person doing it, his conscious and subconscious desires and society rules. People who think that they can freely kill non-hostile civilians/children in video game because it just bunch of pixels and have nothing to do with real world - deeply inside they just unstable persons who without social restrictions and taboo would become yet another criminals.

I mean I do like going on killing sprees in the game and well, read my signature.

However one nutcase is not a reliable sample.

Iluvrien

Uryel wrote: »

Those missions are not about stealth, as stealth has no effect on them. They're just about timing. Basically, they are big, badly cobbled together quick time events.

Sadly this is true.

I ran the DB material once but haven’t done so again because it made me uncomfortable. That is my choice and my loss.

The TG heists are more morally flexible as you are usually hitting bandits... and thus are similar to the rest of the game. I still wish there was a truly virtuous option but it is what it is.

The heist design though... that is frustrating beyond all reasonable expectation.

albesca

Uryel wrote: »

And the worst of all : the senseless timers. Some guy went through the trouble of posting an add on a board in the thief's den, wait until someone took the heist, but suddenly you have exactly 5 minutes to get it, or he will run out of patience. In the case of assassination, you have all the time you need, until you killed your target. Even if no one has seen you ever, some magic 6th sense will bring some big bad tough guy around and you must rush the exit NOW.

Timers are necessary to put pressure on you, otherwise both heists and sacraments would be pretty much impossible to botch.
Also, applying common sense to games is never a good idea, otherwise we should start with the basics, like why mobs don't flee when you beat them to near death or how you can mow down dozen of bandits but their comrades still come at you instead of running for their lives.

That said, I agree that the abundance of magic lantern, especially in narrow corridors, forcing you to wait in hiding spots is not particularly engaging

barney2525

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

If you don't like PvP, you don't participate in things like Midyear Mayhem, and you don't get those Event tickets.

If you don't like dungeons/trials, you don't participate in those events, and you don't get those Event tickets.

If you don't like criminal acts.... see where I'm going with this?

Working as intended. (I've missed a number of tickets from skipping on events that I didn't want to do. It happens. There's more tickets given out than are needed, unless you're trying for the "Must Get Everything!" OCD award.)

Not sure where you are going with it... maybe, Cleveland?

barney2525

Neoealth wrote: »

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

So yeah, I won't be participating in this scum-fest.
Which is a shame, as the black onyx was the one I wanted the most. I guess I'll wait for next event.

Such a heartbreak.

Oh noo such a heart ache boo hooo. It's your choice. Why don't you have a character that is a bad guy? If you care about good and bad in a video game where nothing is real, then you obviously care about rp'ing. So rp a character that is a thief and murderer.

I just do not understand this attitude, i see it every time it's the tg and db events, the same old complaints about not wanting to be a bad guy. It's not a sin to kill pixels on a screen for crying out loud.

Ah, but is it a sin to Enjoy it?

Not that I am complaining. I have a vampire templar who keeps wracking up kills on quests, so killing stuff as a job for thieves guild or dark brotherhood isn't such a huge leap of morality.

However, on the other hand I was glad to watch the Bethesda Con/get-a-free-mount/propaganda-day show. I know Exactly what games to NEVER EVER even consider playing. Ya got the 'german bad guys takeover the world' game and Doom, and all they are is mutilation up close in horrific detail. And you, the 'good guy' , are the one doing all the mutilation.

ridiculous

IMHO



Edited because the forums don't allow the use of the German descriptive word Na++ , even though the game company Promotes it and uses it in the game itself.

AngelaWasp

I don't enjoy pvp, so I just skip it. There are plenty enough tickets during later events to skip some of them. I don't believe in buying tickets either, but I manage to keep up without doing things I don't enjoy.

redgreensunset

Hail Sithis!

redgreensunset

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

The Dark Brotherhood sacraments are pretty darn evil. [snip]

Are they? I've only done a few so far but my targets have been an abusive scumbag of a druglord, a poisoner and a a really bad egg of a smuggler. Certainly no better people than the ones the rest of the game tells me to kill and worse than quite a few.

logarifmik

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

Mettaricana

You guys have weird morals its a game and whoever you kill respawns soon as you yurn in the quest for the next time. Not like killing 2,000,000 bandits as a werewolf or vampire on a buffet streak to level up makes you any better than the guy who slit one shady mo fo imperials throat.

redgreensunset

Radiance wrote: »

A friend of mine feels the same way, I tell them they are only NPC's that will Respawn but it is about committing the Act itself they are uncomfortable with.

I suggest doing as I did and creating a character specifically for doing Bad Things. I used my Dark Elf NightBlade Vampire to complete the TG/DB storylines while my Saint-Like Templar Healer main has still yet to do so...

Tell me something, is your friend as upset by the rest of the killing in the game? What about those times, such as in the main quest line and in the AD one, where it forces you to sacrifise an innocent person? Or lik in Rivenspire where you kill a lot of innocent people who's been cursed with vampirism. It's not their fault, they just got caught in the middle. And the uber bad guy in that story line was just trying to save his wife's life, now here you are killing him. Why? And how do you justify that?
Otoh take one of the DB sacraments where you have to kill a druglord who's been very abusive to his own daughter and now she's performed the Black Sacrement to have the Dark Brotherhood kill him. Which of these scenarios are you the most evil? Which one do they find morally unjustifiable and why?

wishlist14

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Event tickets don't start till 10AM EST... Havent started yet...

Still won't get anything without doing something villainous, will I?

Just think of it as killing off bad guys that would otherwise have still been murdering innocents and stealing from our queen's palace or from your family even. You are killing scum so don't feel bad....you are a hero in this story.

Michae

redgreensunset wrote: »

Radiance wrote: »

A friend of mine feels the same way, I tell them they are only NPC's that will Respawn but it is about committing the Act itself they are uncomfortable with.

I suggest doing as I did and creating a character specifically for doing Bad Things. I used my Dark Elf NightBlade Vampire to complete the TG/DB storylines while my Saint-Like Templar Healer main has still yet to do so...

Tell me something, is your friend as upset by the rest of the killing in the game? What about those times, such as in the main quest line and in the AD one, where it forces you to sacrifise an innocent person? Or lik in Rivenspire where you kill a lot of innocent people who's been cursed with vampirism. It's not their fault, they just got caught in the middle. And the uber bad guy in that story line was just trying to save his wife's life, now here you are killing him. Why? And how do you justify that?
Otoh take one of the DB sacraments where you have to kill a druglord who's been very abusive to his own daughter and now she's performed the Black Sacrement to have the Dark Brotherhood kill him. Which of these scenarios are you the most evil? Which one do they find morally unjustifiable and why?

Or when during Glenumbra questline

you kill werewolves only to find the cure a bit later, heal like four people and then go back to just killing werewolves again.

redgreensunset

logarifmik wrote: »

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

And I object to being forced to sacrifise innocent people "for the greater good", yet the base game keeps forcing that choice on me. Can I get a storyline that doesn't force me to make an amoral choice constantly.

heaven13

Cinbri wrote: »

Michae wrote: »

Another one of those threads? Is your concern rp or do you really refuse to do a no no in a video game because it's bad in real life? Yes, I've seen people like that too.

I won't say anything new but if it's rp then roll a new character if you care so much. Thieves Guild already has more of a Robin Hood feel to it than anything like a villanous mafia organisation. They steal from bandits and rich people, you don't even get a bounty when you get caught.

Even sacraments are often some cultist cave parties where you have to kill some morally dubious guy.

It's just a game, events don't really have to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone. I for one am doing all the events, even though some are out of my comfort zone. I don't really like Cyrodiil pvp and yet I did all of the achievements on that one, it turned out pretty fun and it's a point of pride for me (if one can really feel pride from a video game ). And the truth is that TG and DB are some of my favourite content for this game and are pretty straightforward event wise. Go to a base, get quest, you get teleported to a location, do the thing, get reward. Done. Compare it to New Load Festival or Morrowind event where you had to manually go to the location of the quest and then go back, sometimes needing assistance of other players, with boss for example. Or when you had to cue up for a broken dungeon que. This event's pretty cool in that regard.

And if you're really worried about doing bad things in a video game then grow up. It's not real, and it doesn't have really any realistic quality to it. Dark Brotherhood people are cartoonishly evil, they only lack moustaches to twirl.

That what generation z keep say. Yet it was already numerous psychological researches about moral choices in video games and all claim same result - choices made by real life morality of person doing it, his conscious and subconscious desires and society rules. People who think that they can freely kill non-hostile civilians/children in video game because it just bunch of pixels and have nothing to do with real world - deeply inside they just unstable persons who without social restrictions and taboo would become yet another criminals.

Yeah, I'd also like a link to this study. Who conducted the study? What was the criteria, and the control factors, and the reporting method?

Violence/aggression in video games is a widely studied yet divisive topic that has no straight consensus; even the APA has varying conclusions. Some studies say that violent FPS games actually increase problem solving, as well as other cognitive skills, and are good stress relievers. However, no study I have found (including while obtaining my psychology degree) ever stated that people that play violent video games are sociopaths.

For the OP, my main is a lawful good that does not participate in TG/DB stuff and I do my best to make choices accordingly (when I can) for main quests. That said, I have a variety of characters and some are not so nice, so I use them for these events.

logarifmik

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

And I object to being forced to sacrifise innocent people "for the greater good", yet the base game keeps forcing that choice on me. Can I get a storyline that doesn't force me to make an amoral choice constantly.

If you don't see that things you and me talking about are completely different, I don't know what to say.

redgreensunset

logarifmik wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

And I object to being forced to sacrifise innocent people "for the greater good", yet the base game keeps forcing that choice on me. Can I get a storyline that doesn't force me to make an amoral choice constantly.

If you don't see that things you and me talking about are completely different, I don't know what to say.

How? We both have issues with part of the game play and its choices. Only difference is yours is with an DLC, that you don't ever need to touch if you don't want to, mine is with the base storyline.
Also, gotta love you ignored my point further up with how this game constantly makes you kill innocent prople caught in the middle. At least DB and TG have you preying bad guys and the morally very dubious. Or are you okay with killing innocents as long as someone of Proper Moral Authority tells that it's okay and therefor not murder?

logarifmik

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

And I object to being forced to sacrifise innocent people "for the greater good", yet the base game keeps forcing that choice on me. Can I get a storyline that doesn't force me to make an amoral choice constantly.

If you don't see that things you and me talking about are completely different, I don't know what to say.

How? We both have issues with part of the game play and its choices. Only difference is yours is with an DLC, that you don't ever need to touch if you don't want to, mine is with the base storyline.
Also, gotta love you ignored my point further up with how this game constantly makes you kill innocent prople caught in the middle. At least DB and TG have you preying bad guys and the morally very dubious. Or are you okay with killing innocents as long as someone of Proper Moral Authority tells that it's okay and therefor not murder?

I'll try to put it briefly.
You talking (as I understand it): sacrifice to save others.
I talking: kill random folks for money/fun/whatever.
For me, yes, it's acceptable to sacrifice someone or something in order to save the overwhelming majority, if there is no other possible solution exist at the time. It's quite simple dichotomy, if you're honest with yourself.

In DB you're not always preying bad guys. Just check some quests from the grossbuch in the Sanctuary. Besides, it's even worse. In TESO murderers and thieves are whitewashed to be more attractive for the audience.

redgreensunset

logarifmik wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Hey, I'm not alone here. It's really a dark part of the ESO questline overall, too many crime-oriented quests, two DLCs (sic!) without any alternative for lawful characters. I know, that one can roleplay a character in such a way and I do so myself, but on lawful ones player is forced to ignore such content completely.

It would be great to see an alternative storylines for DB and TG DLCs.

And I object to being forced to sacrifise innocent people "for the greater good", yet the base game keeps forcing that choice on me. Can I get a storyline that doesn't force me to make an amoral choice constantly.

If you don't see that things you and me talking about are completely different, I don't know what to say.

How? We both have issues with part of the game play and its choices. Only difference is yours is with an DLC, that you don't ever need to touch if you don't want to, mine is with the base storyline.
Also, gotta love you ignored my point further up with how this game constantly makes you kill innocent prople caught in the middle. At least DB and TG have you preying bad guys and the morally very dubious. Or are you okay with killing innocents as long as someone of Proper Moral Authority tells that it's okay and therefor not murder?

I'll try to put it briefly.
You talking (as I understand it): sacrifice to save others.
I talking: kill random folks for money/fun/whatever.
For me, yes, it's acceptable to sacrifice someone or something in order to save the overwhelming majority, if there is no other possible solution exist at the time. It's quite simple dichotomy, if you're honest with yourself.

In DB you're not always preying bad guys. Just check some quests from the grossbuch in the Sanctuary. Besides, it's even worse. In TESO murderers and thieves are whitewashed to be more attractive for the audience.

I was talking about deliberatrly killing someone purportedly "for a greater purpose" with no alternative presented even though my uncreative ass could think of one in less than 5 sec. Or killing a dude who's ust trying to get the love of his life back, a woman who loved him until some forsaken ritual brain washed her. Or the wide range of other amoral choices this game constant forced on you, but it's okay because people of Proper Moral Authority says it is okay.


And then there are all those beings who are just chilling in their homes until we arrive and kill them off and steal their stuff. Sometimes on other people's orders, sometimes just because we feel like it. A point btw, that you keep dodging in answering.
How is murdering your way through a dungeon or delve any different? Just because the game doesn't call it murder or theft.

It really seems your objection is solely to whether or not some arbitarry authority have okay'ed your mayhem and larceny, not whether r or not your actions are actually good.

logarifmik

redgreensunset wrote: »

I was talking about deliberatrly killing someone purportedly "for a greater purpose" with no alternative presented even though my uncreative ass could think of one in less than 5 sec. Or killing a dude who's ust trying to get the love of his life back, a woman who loved him until some forsaken ritual brain washed her. Or the wide range of other amoral choices this game constant forced on you, but it's okay because people of Proper Moral Authority says it is okay.

My apologies, now I get it. What you are talking about is a bad writing, I don't like it either.

redgreensunset wrote: »

And then there are all those beings who are just chilling in their homes until we arrive and kill them off and steal their stuff. Sometimes on other people's orders, sometimes just because we feel like it. A point btw, that you keep dodging in answering.
How is murdering your way through a dungeon or delve any different? Just because the game doesn't call it murder or theft.

It really seems your objection is solely to whether or not some arbitarry authority have okay'ed your mayhem and larceny, not whether r or not your actions are actually good.

Name at least one dungeon, where your enemies are not brigands or monsters, please.

About murdering and robbing civilians, especially when it's indirectly forced, like it was with farming motif pages in Vivec, I don't approve such approach either. I see it as a bad and lazy gameplay development decision.

I guess I see, what attitude you're talking about. The answer lays somewhere in the field of morality and philosophy. Personally, I think, that sometimes killing, or murdering if you like, is justified. Though, it doesn't mean, that I deliberately seek a reason or someone's approval to do so, no. Circumstances is the only thing, that can give one the right.

Anyway, it's not about my opinion on the matter, right? It's about hero/villain dichotomy in the game. One day you're saving the Nirn for... What? For killing some innocent people here and there? Such approach in constructing narrative doesn't seem right. Completionist Vestige seems to have a bipolar disorder or something, or there is a literary hole instead of character.

albesca

logarifmik wrote: »

Anyway, it's not about my opinion on the matter, right? It's about hero/villain dichotomy in the game. One day you're saving the Nirn for... What? For killing some innocent people here and there? Such approach in constructing narrative doesn't seem right. Completionist Vestige seems to have a bipolar disorder or something, or there is a literary hole instead of character.

Completionists cannot afford to stick to a coherent narrative for their characters: as far as crime is concerned, I think that the Thieves' Guild's ethic (the one depicted in game, at least) isn't compatible with the Dark Brotherhood's one, so you should really choose only one of the two (my characters tends to gravitate toward thieves more than murderers).

Besides, giving a legal aligned quest line (I don't know, siding with the Iron Wheel in Hew's Bane or something like that, though to be honest they're mercenaries and not that better than the guild) would require another set of achievements mutually exclusive with the ones we have now, and that would make completionists' lives even harder