This is ESO!

Cillion3117

So many words....

morrowjen

Honestly, since Elsweyr, I've had several crashes, severe lag (to the point walking is impossible), nightmare load screens, frequent logouts, and such slow or bugged combat that half the time what I input doesn't happen and the other half the time I can run right by mobs in a delve without them reacting to my character.

I love the expansion but the issues have made it difficult to even play in low traffic, low taxing, areas. I didn't have theses issues prior.

Jaraal

SirMewser wrote: »

*Dragon's will at times jerk and flip 160 degrees in flight, usually happens before going to sit on high terrain.

How do you know it's not actually 170 degrees, as intended?

twev

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tamriel is a crazy place. Working as intended

I would assume the official position on OP's posted issues would end up being:
"Don't do those things".

nafensoriel

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

daemonios

nafensoriel wrote: »

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

It's not just the number of bugs. In fact, the issue is more how long they've been present, and how long it takes for ZOS to acknowledge them, when they do acknowledge them, and how bad ZOS have been at communicating.

By their own admission later last year ZOS had a communication issue they were going to try to resolve. What followed was radio silence for months, even as PC-EU performance crashed to new lows. They announced server upgrades that didn't solve the problems, later turned on a login queue in addition to Cyrodiil and group finder queues... So no, it's not that we expect perfection. Speaking for myself, I simply have little sympathy or trust in ZOS as a company.

twev

nafensoriel wrote: »

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

Maybe, just maybe, if the game is too big to handle the stuff they program into - then possibly they tried to program too much stuff into?

I mean, here's an example:
Just when do you stop trying to fill a 1 gallon bucket of water that is already overflowing, if you're (WE are) paying for the water?

And when does the developer admit they're selling us more stuff for a game engine that already can't handle the stuff they sold us last time, and stop putting new stuff on top of the pile?

For the sake of argument:
What is the additional value of buying new stuff they program into the game if the game is too big to handle what is ALREADY programmed into it, with MORE new stuff they expect us to buy?

Doesn't this make the concept of new DLCs (with no code fixes to allow all the stuff in current DLCs to work properly because the game engine can't handle the scope of what we ALREADY have), moot?

And when we buy the new DLCs, with MORE stuff that won't work, because the game is already too big, we'll be told again that they can't slow down on new development at the expense of fixing the code because.... reasons.....

nafensoriel

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

It's not just the number of bugs. In fact, the issue is more how long they've been present, and how long it takes for ZOS to acknowledge them, when they do acknowledge them, and how bad ZOS have been at communicating.

By their own admission later last year ZOS had a communication issue they were going to try to resolve. What followed was radio silence for months, even as PC-EU performance crashed to new lows. They announced server upgrades that didn't solve the problems, later turned on a login queue in addition to Cyrodiil and group finder queues... So no, it's not that we expect perfection. Speaking for myself, I simply have little sympathy or trust in ZOS as a company.

and this is new to gamers.... how?
There are bugs in Atari games that still exist. There are bugs in Half-life that still exist. Every game has its dirty laundry.

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough. The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players. Where is the financial or even moral requirement to jump through hoops here? No product you buy is perfect. Everything has issues. Video games have some of the LOWEST issues per dollar spent and they have the lowest impact on the user per dollar spent.

Are there issues with ESO? Yes. Is ZOS somehow ANY different from ANY other company in existence? Hell no. Do gamers demand WAY too much from developers? Yes.

maboleth

Way too much time on your end. Not sure it's a positive or negative...

on the other hand...

daemonios wrote: »

I simply have little sympathy or trust in ZOS as a company.

This is actually true more often than not. The thing that irritates me in this game are not the bugs. It's the absence of their acknowledgement. You ask ZOS something 5 times and they just turn their heads like they didn't see you.

For example, golden master food for magicka sorcs STILL has bugged UI issue. After several attempts here, several /bug reports in game - nothing. Deafening silence.

Mind you, this is NOT trivial bug. It effectively prevents me from using this food as I don't see bars growing and shrinking. Been more than a year.

THAT is so annoying on their part. So annoying with reading their broken promises how they will be more open and communicative in the future... yet future never comes. After a while a wishful thinking and PR talk turns out to be a lie.

maboleth

nafensoriel wrote: »

Are there issues with ESO? Yes. Is ZOS somehow ANY different from ANY other company in existence? Hell no. Do gamers demand WAY too much from developers? Yes.

Not sure about American companies, but Nintendo games have been pretty bug-free for me. Bug free to the point of not seeing ANY bug after playing ANY N game (zelda, splatoon, mario, kart, octopath traveler etc.), even though they issue patches for both the console and games. You just have to be unlucky to see them.

On the other hand, as an example, I bought two limited crown store items in ESO and both had bugs/glitches the moment I used them or in next 5 minutes. Two weeks on and they are still there.

SweepsAllClowns

nafensoriel wrote: »

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough. The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players.

My completely stuck EU account cannot be fixed by relogging when I can't log in at all, it's been like this for almost 4 months now and it definitely isn't good enough for me. Would think this is some serious and urgent issue, but it definitely isn't for Zenimax, because only very few have it so it can be left as it is. I got told they are aware and investigating, that's all and responsibilities filled I assume.

Arunei

I didn't see it anywhere, but there's the bug that can prevent you from going past the Orc boss whose name I can't remember in Wayrest I. You end up being stuck in combat for an indeterminate amount of time, long after the fight has actually finished and all the mobs are dead.

Mettaricana

Ps4 console bug: the red glow that shows your targeting an enemy vanishes and you can't use single target skills or light and heavy attacks on them. Aoes still work but anything that needs a target randomly stops functioning for about 1-3mins during fights at random timing. Makes necro and nightblade absolute hell to play.

Can add to the list of ya want dunno of this is pc issue thread only or not.

nafensoriel

SweepsAllClowns wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough. The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players.

My completely stuck EU account cannot be fixed by relogging when I can't log in at all, it's been like this for almost 4 months now and it definitely isn't good enough for me. Would think this is some serious and urgent issue, but it definitely isn't for Zenimax, because only very few have it so it can be left as it is. I got told they are aware and investigating, that's all and responsibilities filled I assume.

This is a real case of getting the short end of the stick. It sucks I know but you have to realize you are still a significant minority. Millions of players log on every month without issue for the few thousands(or in the current EU server tens of thousands) who have significant issues. As much as it sucks your issue still falls squarely in the 0.01% of issues not fixed by /reloadui or relogging. Does this mean you should be ignored? No... and no company on the planet is going to ignore you. They can't pull magic fairy fix it dust though and any solution that doesn't require /reloadui, relog, or reinstall is going to take time.

@maboleth
Breath of the Wild actually has a significant amount of bugs in it. Nintendo just has the flat out best QA/QC team right now. They dump a ton of money and time into ensuring the game is playable in full to its customers and yes I wish American companies took a page from them in this. Don't assume Japanese companies don't release buggy games that never get fixed though.

@twev
To counter argue. ESO is one of the largest games ever made in the categories of content, art, sound, land size, and scope. Their bug count is infinitesimally TINY compared to what they offer that does work. They could have an order of magnitude more bugs and the majority of users would STILL never notice them in their daily play time.

If a bug is :
1] Trial boss B does something that impacts 3.6% of all fights per week and only 10% of the player base engages that boss per week is it cost effective to fix something that doesn't really stop you from completing the trial? A BUG is not a hard stop.

2] If a bug impacts every single fire staff equipped in the game and makes it do negative damage then that's a major issue that will demand immediate action because it impacts a much broader swath of the player base.

See the difference? Bugs are often pointless to fix because they fail to impact all that many people. When you release new content you have to focus on the new more important bugs rather than a 3-year-old bug that hits, at most, a few hundred people temporarily a week. To fix all bugs in an MMO is to stop improving that MMO. To stop improving an MMO is to stop making money on that MMO. MMOs are never fixed because business math just never works. It's new or die because we, the players, demand new.

Durham

PVP is absolutey beyound broke and hardly functions at the moment during primetime this game is a complete mess atm.

DisgracefulMind

nafensoriel wrote: »

SweepsAllClowns wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough. The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players.

My completely stuck EU account cannot be fixed by relogging when I can't log in at all, it's been like this for almost 4 months now and it definitely isn't good enough for me. Would think this is some serious and urgent issue, but it definitely isn't for Zenimax, because only very few have it so it can be left as it is. I got told they are aware and investigating, that's all and responsibilities filled I assume.

This is a real case of getting the short end of the stick. It sucks I know but you have to realize you are still a significant minority. Millions of players log on every month without issue for the few thousands(or in the current EU server tens of thousands) who have significant issues. As much as it sucks your issue still falls squarely in the 0.01% of issues not fixed by /reloadui or relogging. Does this mean you should be ignored? No... and no company on the planet is going to ignore you. They can't pull magic fairy fix it dust though and any solution that doesn't require /reloadui, relog, or reinstall is going to take time.

@maboleth
Breath of the Wild actually has a significant amount of bugs in it. Nintendo just has the flat out best QA/QC team right now. They dump a ton of money and time into ensuring the game is playable in full to its customers and yes I wish American companies took a page from them in this. Don't assume Japanese companies don't release buggy games that never get fixed though.

@twev
To counter argue. ESO is one of the largest games ever made in the categories of content, art, sound, land size, and scope. Their bug count is infinitesimally TINY compared to what they offer that does work. They could have an order of magnitude more bugs and the majority of users would STILL never notice them in their daily play time.

If a bug is :
1] Trial boss B does something that impacts 3.6% of all fights per week and only 10% of the player base engages that boss per week is it cost effective to fix something that doesn't really stop you from completing the trial? A BUG is not a hard stop.

2] If a bug impacts every single fire staff equipped in the game and makes it do negative damage then that's a major issue that will demand immediate action because it impacts a much broader swath of the player base.

See the difference? Bugs are often pointless to fix because they fail to impact all that many people. When you release new content you have to focus on the new more important bugs rather than a 3-year-old bug that hits, at most, a few hundred people temporarily a week. To fix all bugs in an MMO is to stop improving that MMO. To stop improving an MMO is to stop making money on that MMO. MMOs are never fixed because business math just never works. It's new or die because we, the players, demand new.

w h i t e k n i g h t

^that's you.

ZoS NEEDS TO STOP PUMPING OUT MORE CRAP FOR THEIR GAME AND FIX IT FIRST.

Iluvrien

I have to congratulate @nafensoriel on cramming the largest amount of utter tosh into a single post that I have seen in a long while. Well done.

nafensoriel wrote: »

and this is new to gamers.... how?
There are bugs in Atari games that still exist. There are bugs in Half-life that still exist. Every game has its dirty laundry.

Atari games and Half-life were one off purchases. Atari games have no patch mechanism at all. ESO is a live service with a weekly update schedule. You are comparing apples to elephants.

nafensoriel wrote: »

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough.

Nobody pays for good enough. They pay for perfect. They get given good enough by an industry that is happy to release buggy games because people refuse to hold it to actual corporate standards.

nafensoriel wrote: »

The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players.

Go through the list in the first page and prove this statement in each case. Then I’ll accept it. Otherwise it is two interconnected generalisations. Meaningless.

nafensoriel wrote: »

Where is the financial or even moral requirement to jump through hoops here? No product you buy is perfect. Everything has issues. Video games have some of the LOWEST issues per dollar spent and they have the lowest impact on the user per dollar spent.

Are there issues with ESO? Yes. Is ZOS somehow ANY different from ANY other company in existence? Hell no. Do gamers demand WAY too much from developers? Yes.

In any company that I have ever worked for, if the number of issues with your product increases over time then you would expect heads to roll. Quickly.

I once worked for a company that collected and provided customer feedback information to a large financial institution. The data dashboards went out to every branch of that institution in the country. Do you know how many free mistakes our team got to make? None. Not one.

Video games companies seem to get a free pass. They shouldn’t. They are companies producing software. Other companies do it too. With far fewer apologetics like you.

gronoxvx

TL;DR

twev

gronoxvx wrote: »

TL;DR

Awesome!
Thanks for participating.
We'll try to use shorter words next time.

Thoragaal

Arunei wrote: »

I didn't see it anywhere, but there's the bug that can prevent you from going past the Orc boss whose name I can't remember in Wayrest I. You end up being stuck in combat for an indeterminate amount of time, long after the fight has actually finished and all the mobs are dead.

That's actually not a bug. It's because you have some mobs early on in the dungeon that rarely gets killed, even though they have been aggroed, leaving you in combat untill you pass that very door (and the mobs reset). However, the bug would be that the mobs early on don't follow proper pathing which would cause the mobs to eventually catch up to you.

SweepsAllClowns

nafensoriel wrote: »

I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect.

I think that has been made quite clear for me after having my EU account completely stuck soon for 4 months, there's no certainty for even being able to log in nowadays, and this is absolutely fine for the company, customer is nothing nowadays. I haven't even started serious complaining yet, but if and when my stuck account reaches the half year celebration day, then I might start some complaining campaign just for the entertainment, my account will stay exactly the same obviously no matter what I do.

Darkenarlol

i've experiences most of actual bugs listed here at least once...ok

but why do you put l2p issues inbetween bugs? trying to present

your lack of game experince and skill in pvp as bugs?? c'mon this is ridiculous...

still laughing at lamia queen boss - this is boss' mechanics...

which shows your lack of game knowledge...again


this thread could be much better if there was only bugs mentioned,

not a mix of bugs, biased opinion and your l2p issues

this c0cktail is not tasty at all

Iluvrien

Darkenarlol wrote: »

i've experiences most of actual bugs listed here at least once...ok

but why do you put l2p issues inbetween bugs? trying to present

your lack of game experince and skill in pvp as bugs?? c'mon this is ridiculous...

still laughing at lamia queen boss - this is boss' mechanics...

which shows your lack of game knowledge...again


this thread could be much better if there was only bugs mentioned,

not a mix of bugs, biased opinion and your l2p issues

this c0cktail is not tasty at all

Or you could compile that list yourself from the original entries and thereby actually contribute something useful to the thread.

hakan

nafensoriel wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

It's not just the number of bugs. In fact, the issue is more how long they've been present, and how long it takes for ZOS to acknowledge them, when they do acknowledge them, and how bad ZOS have been at communicating.

By their own admission later last year ZOS had a communication issue they were going to try to resolve. What followed was radio silence for months, even as PC-EU performance crashed to new lows. They announced server upgrades that didn't solve the problems, later turned on a login queue in addition to Cyrodiil and group finder queues... So no, it's not that we expect perfection. Speaking for myself, I simply have little sympathy or trust in ZOS as a company.

and this is new to gamers.... how?
There are bugs in Atari games that still exist. There are bugs in Half-life that still exist. Every game has its dirty laundry.

The problem is people don't pay for perfect. They pay for good enough. You get good enough. The majority of bugs in ESO can be fixed by /reloadui or a relog. The ones that can't don't really touch the majority of players. Where is the financial or even moral requirement to jump through hoops here? No product you buy is perfect. Everything has issues. Video games have some of the LOWEST issues per dollar spent and they have the lowest impact on the user per dollar spent.

Are there issues with ESO? Yes. Is ZOS somehow ANY different from ANY other company in existence? Hell no. Do gamers demand WAY too much from developers? Yes.

No, you are out of touch. Most of them wont be fixed by reloadui or whatever. You dont even acknowledge the problems we are having right now.

"Good enough" times were when we only had a couple of annoying bugs and big cyro battle lags, thats it.

Now you cant even quest properly. Or queue for dungeon. Time for bandaid fixes are over. They dont work anymore.

As for video games have the lowest issue per dollar spent???? I believe you meant to say vice versa?

Video game business is one of the the most profitable one for companies, they can have a huge malfunctioning product and still make huge profits thanks to people ignorant like you.

We want this game to perform better. So the game goes on longer, company make profits, we enjoy the universe we like and everyone is happy. Nothing is absurd about this.

maboleth

I guess "good enough" was the software for 737 MAX where innocent people paid with their lives in a horrific way.

American companies are so greedy to the point of losing touch with reality. It emerged that Boeing outsourced some of its software to 9$ per hour programmers, mostly in India. "Greed" is understatement in this case.

The comparison is extreme, but as long as we settle for "good enough" while the same companies are making billions, things will go bad.

So far ZOS is charging people for: base game + dlcs (or base+dlc combo) + crown store, upgrades and services + houses (extreme inflated overpricing) + house items (many items being crown exclusive only) + Chapter + optional subscription that while very useful and recommended, does not grant you access to housings, house items or a Chapter. It's all sold separately.

So yes, I expect the product to be near flawless when you have such big generator of income. But, majority of people settle for "good enough". Majority of people are clueless or simply switch to other game if they cannot finish the quest etc. But since they logged in, they bought something, ZOS is happy because statistically, they played and bought the game.

TLDR - ZOS should stop pretending everything is fine when people run jokes about "zos being zos" at bugs & glitches.

SirMewser

Darkenarlol wrote: »

i've experiences most of actual bugs listed here at least once...ok

but why do you put l2p issues inbetween bugs? trying to present

your lack of game experince and skill in pvp as bugs?? c'mon this is ridiculous...

still laughing at lamia queen boss - this is boss' mechanics...

which shows your lack of game knowledge...again


this thread could be much better if there was only bugs mentioned,

not a mix of bugs, biased opinion and your l2p issues

this c0cktail is not tasty at all

If you think something is more about opinion than it needs to be addressed for improvement, say something useful.

SirMewser

Darkenarlol wrote: »

i've experiences most of actual bugs listed here at least once...ok

but why do you put l2p issues inbetween bugs? trying to present

your lack of game experince and skill in pvp as bugs?? c'mon this is ridiculous...

still laughing at lamia queen boss - this is boss' mechanics...

which shows your lack of game knowledge...again


this thread could be much better if there was only bugs mentioned,

not a mix of bugs, biased opinion and your l2p issues

this c0cktail is not tasty at all

Taken from Fextralife.
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Arx+Corinium

"*It appears that only the range taunts work, the piercing strike has trouble taunting her
*After scream, boss need to be taunt 5 time or boss attack random person"

You're welcome to lookup this topic yourself on the forums. Are you sure there is indication for this to be a mechanic? Let us know.

Quintas in Volenfell, Drodda in Direfrost Keep and the Engine Guardian in Darkshade Caverns are examples of bosses that actually always have taunt immunity and the game will tell you that when attempting to taunt them.

I have updated to clarify the issue so less experienced players will be better informed of this.

FearlessOne_2014

twev wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The very first thought that came to my head after reading that trainwreck of a list was :
"Wow, that's actually very few bugs for a game this massive."


I don't think people get that perfection isn't a thing anymore. No one wants to pay for perfection but everyone complains when something isn't perfect. It's like the entire world of gaming turned into the idiot DIYers at home depot who buy a crappy cheap drill and then spend the next 5 years complaining the drill sucks.

Maybe, just maybe, if the game is too big to handle the stuff they program into - then possibly they tried to program too much stuff into?

I mean, here's an example:
Just when do you stop trying to fill a 1 gallon bucket of water that is already overflowing, if you're (WE are) paying for the water?

And when does the developer admit they're selling us more stuff for a game engine that already can't handle the stuff they sold us last time, and stop putting new stuff on top of the pile?

For the sake of argument:
What is the additional value of buying new stuff they program into the game if the game is too big to handle what is ALREADY programmed into it, with MORE new stuff they expect us to buy?

Doesn't this make the concept of new DLCs (with no code fixes to allow all the stuff in current DLCs to work properly because the game engine can't handle the scope of what we ALREADY have), moot?

And when we buy the new DLCs, with MORE stuff that won't work, because the game is already too big, we'll be told again that they can't slow down on new development at the expense of fixing the code because.... reasons.....

When people became smart enough to stop throwing money at them. Duh

SirMewser

I'd like to remind people to remain constructive and civil. I don't know about you but I'd rather not have this compromised by being locked.

Remember that because a bug is avoidable, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or happens to users on their end, nor does that warrant to say it's L2P.

I want things ironed out and I hope that you all do too.

nafensoriel

Iluvrien wrote:

Atari games and Half-life were one off purchases. Atari games have no patch mechanism at all. ESO is a live service with a weekly update schedule. You are comparing apples to elephants.

Cherry picking. Did you know that Atari games actually had patches? Different cartridges had different versions for many titles. Half-life also had patches posted online. Just because technology moves on does not change the fact that gamers have had a very long history to deal with bugs.
Bugs have always and will always exist once a program reaches a certain complexity.

Nobody pays for good enough. They pay for perfect. They get given good enough by an industry that is happy to release buggy games because people refuse to hold it to actual corporate standards.

Bahahahahahaha. No.
You pay for crap. You've always paid for crap. Do you think when you buy a car you buy a perfectly built and QC'ed vehicle proven to last the duration of its materials? No. You buy a car that lasts just long enough to satisfy you and encourage you to buy another similar version of the product. Same with just about every single purchase you make today.

I will go back to the drill analogy. Ever actually taken apart an appliance? Notice how gen 1 every slot on the control PCB is full but by gen 3 half the parts are missing? That's because the manufacturers figured out they can lower quality and you will STILL buy it increasing their profit margins while selling you what is basically now an inferior tool to the original.

Free market economics will NEVER give the consumer "perfect" by design.

Go through the list in the first page and prove this statement in each case. Then I’ll accept it. Otherwise it is two interconnected generalisations. Meaningless.

Do you think that bug list is complete? That's borderline adorably naive.
Almost all of those bugs listed do not cause hard stops or prevent the majority of gamers from consuming content. Things like leaderboard complaints don't even apply because of how few people actually care about this feature. This is an MMO. Rules are 1]respect all gamers 2] respect the majority more. You've got features that work 99% of the time or have really easy workarounds. Adapt.

In any company that I have ever worked for, if the number of issues with your product increases over time then you would expect heads to roll. Quickly.

Then you've never worked on a product that gets regular patching of new major features.
Adding major features or large chunks of code brings problems. ESOs features to bug ratio have gone down since release by a mile. If you really think the current bugs are bad go back and see what beta was like. The current number of "major issues" against ESO is bloody tiny considering every year they release huge content drops and seem to have a steady upgrading of their back end. Considering the mountain of spaghetti they must have to deal with anyone whos ever actually done a major project would be impressed.

Sure they need more QC time but as per my original point, they are no different than any other company on the market. The doom patrol claiming these bugs are unusual are out of touch with reality.

I once worked for a company that collected and provided customer feedback information to a large financial institution. The data dashboards went out to every branch of that institution in the country. Do you know how many free mistakes our team got to make? None. Not one.

Video games companies seem to get a free pass. They shouldn’t. They are companies producing software. Other companies do it too. With far fewer apologetics like you.

If you worked for a bank you'd know their project budgets make video game budgets look pathetic by comparison. The same is true for industrial software.
Industrial clients buying a process(inline) mass spectrometer demand that it works without failing and with damned near perfect accuracy. They also pay an absolute metric ton for that. The cost comparison of a bench model with a scientist/technician vs a process model is considerable.
The same is true for bank software vs a video gaming software. There is the whole fact that if your video game breaks you lose entertainment while your financial system breaks you lose actual physical money. Entirely different focuses and goals.

If a video game was made to the standards of the banking industry video games would cost a grand per license minimum.
Face it. Gamers want 60 dollar/pound/whatever games just like they paid in the 60s with better tech, more features, and better stories all bug-free and wrapped in a participation trophy of warm snuggles. Something had to give and what we lost was quality.

---

@hakan
No it's still the lowest dollar spent per issue.
In a video game you spent what? 50ish of whatever the local currency is? Maybe you also pay a service fee like ESO+ for ~15 currencies per month. The effect on you is a few minutes to hours of your life. It doesn't impact your health, your PC, your bank account, etc. It just impacts your time.

Compare this to say.. when fords had frame twisting issues or when Dodge decided to use substandard bolts for a few years. Those issues cost not only time but money and could negatively impact your safety and ability to make more money(depending on your job). Even an appliance will have a greater per dollar impact on you. Your dishwashers motor died? Well, you have to spend between 35 and 50% of its purchase value to fix it. How much does it cost you to wait for a game patch again?

Video game industries are not all that more profitable compared to other industries. Generally, it's about 20-30%. Yes individual titles can see 90% but a single title does not a company make. Consider also that gamers are demanding more and development costs are skyrocketing. Off the top of my head, I can remember one really clear figure to highlight this. Gears of War 1 dev cost were around 10-15m. Gears 3 went to 50m. Gears 4 was expected to cost 100m and was the major reason for the sale to Microsoft. Profit margin between GOW1 and GOW3 tanked. Just because GOW3 sold 3x as much was offset by it costing 5x as much to make. This resulted in it making about 2x its costs back in profit. To put this in perspective... This very successful game only gave them enough money to make another one and maybe try their hand at a new title. Imagine how it would look if the game wasntsuccessful? If they only made back costs? They cant make another GOW game and only to fund the next GOW game because fatigue will eventually kill the franchise. So now the company is having to decide to hope they can do another mediocre release and stay alive or try something new and possibly fail worse.

Reality is video games are a massive financial risk. No one needs to buy your product to do work. Its an entertainment product in a sea of entertainment products. All your costs are up front and you have to waste years spending them before your first sale. Then you have to hope to god you did something right or your marketing team pull a rabbit out of their butts(*cough* anthem *cough*).

/speeling