Why DK's Wings Ulti Is Undodgeable?

JumpmanLane

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

uLtImAtEs ShOuLd NoT hAvE cOuNtErS

just block. i block most leaps unless they come from out of los.

Its an instant skill, if they cast it point blank you can't really predict the leap in advance.

Duel more. You most certainly can predict when a leap is coming in a 1v1. Which is all that really matters. (You’ll recognize the combos).If you die to leap xv1 you deserve it. If you’re 1vXing you’re probably fighting pugs with weak leaps anyways. You should survive.

kalunte

@Sanguinor2

battle roar is a buff to ults.

your ressource issue is not helping the talk here, if you dont have ressource managing skills maybe you can do it with your stuff? just like others classes that have ressources managing skills use their stuff for other purpose. as far as i can see dks have the same numbers of active skills and passive than any other class right?

again, battle roar is a buff to ults and my 2cents are that it should be looked at when talking about DKs class ult.

Sanguinor2

kalunte wrote: »

@Sanguinor2

battle roar is a buff to ults.

your ressource issue is not helping the talk here, if you dont have ressource managing skills maybe you can do it with your stuff? just like others classes that have ressources managing skills use their stuff for other purpose. as far as i can see dks have the same numbers of active skills and passive than any other class right?

again, battle roar is a buff to ults and my 2cents are that it should be looked at when talking about DKs class ult.

@kalunte

What the *** are you on About? Battleroar is no buff to ults. It doesnt increase Damage, it doesnt give buffs or debuffs, it doesnt reduce cost, it doesnt increase ult gen. Please how is battleroar a buff to ults????
All it is is the resource recovery tool of dks.
DKs resource recovery tool compared to other classes is battleroar and that is all it is, how is this hard to understand?

Delving into personal attacks with resource issues idk man, you shouldnt talk About resource Management when you Arent even capable of understanding what dks resource recovery tool is. In fact you shouldnt be allowed to talk About dk at all if you cannot even understand what its passives do.

But please how is battleroar a buff to ults, please respond to that Question, I want to understand how you come to the conclusion that a resource recovery tool is a buff to ultimates.

Iskiab

Why all the DK leap hate? I’ve died to some well timed leaps, but so what? It’s a good ability but not crazy or anything.

I don’t get it.

leepalmer95

JumpmanLane wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

uLtImAtEs ShOuLd NoT hAvE cOuNtErS

just block. i block most leaps unless they come from out of los.

Its an instant skill, if they cast it point blank you can't really predict the leap in advance.

Duel more. You most certainly can predict when a leap is coming in a 1v1. Which is all that really matters. (You’ll recognize the combos).If you die to leap xv1 you deserve it. If you’re 1vXing you’re probably fighting pugs with weak leaps anyways. You should survive.

Didn't realise the game is based around 1v1's.

Oh wait it isn't.

Sorry we aren't all physic and can know when multiple people are going to ult...


I have no problem with leap at all, DB is just better.

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

Why all the DK leap hate? I’ve died to some well timed leaps, but so what? It’s a good ability but not crazy or anything.

I don’t get it.

I can't speak for everyone, but it's not so much "Leap hate" as it is an annoyance with some of the arguments being presented. It's among the best offensive ultimates in the game for PvP, especially when factoring in passives, and yet there are DKs here acting like it gets blocked just as often as Meteor does (as if they couldn't frequently get around that with Petrify, anyway). Leap isn't literally uncounterable, but it's far more difficult to counter than some other ultimates are, and both specs of DK are among the top PvP classes in BGs right now. Yet to listen to a lot of the DK players you'd think the class was worse than Mag Necro.

ATomiX96

AoEs arent supposed to be dodgeable, best you can do is block in that case.
Its like saying why cant I dodge dawnbreakers, you might think you can but you dont.

jcm2606

kalunte wrote: »

@Sanguinor2

battle roar is a buff to ults.

your ressource issue is not helping the talk here, if you dont have ressource managing skills maybe you can do it with your stuff? just like others classes that have ressources managing skills use their stuff for other purpose. as far as i can see dks have the same numbers of active skills and passive than any other class right?

again, battle roar is a buff to ults and my 2cents are that it should be looked at when talking about DKs class ult.

Sorc has Dark Exchange, Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes, Templar has Rune Focus, Warden has the netch, Necro has flat recovery when a summon is active. These are just one sustain tool available to the other classes, among a few others.

Nightblade has 15% extra recovery across all three stats, Sorc has extra mag recovery and mag return when you kill via execute, Templar has Repentance, Warden has an effective 250 magicka/stamina recovery via healing with a Green Balance ability, Necro has a resource restore tied to its purge and a corpse drain that restores stamina.

Battle Roar is literally just DK's alternative of all the above. In fact, I'd argue Battle Roar is worse than all the above, because it punishes you for holding your ultimate, on the class that lacks an execute because it has such a strong ultimate. I have to hold my leap to be able to bring a target down, and yet I'm punished for it through Battle Roar.

Maulkin

Damn DKs and their...
*shuffles deck*
*pulls card*
undodgeable aoe ultimate!

kalunte

@jcm2606

of course they dont have similar ressource managment skills, neither passive nor active, but i'm pretty sure they have other interesting passives that give fire dmg or armor or health recovery or healing received or even magicka and stam recovery or just stam recovery? i'm only making a short list tho. this makes the class different not weaker nor stronger. you wont ever had another class' regen but no other class will reach dk in other elements (fire dmg for exemple) and this as very little to do with ults anyway

@Sanguinor2

simple answer for you: if a passive adds something to a skill, it is by any way you look at it, a buff (if it is positive) or a debuff (if it is negative).

Based on this statement, explain to me how restoring health, stamina and magicka when using an ult can be considered anything but positive.

if you cant, just admit that battle roar is a buff to ult and nothing less.

of course it could be better if it worked like balorgh's monster set (and even then i could find ppl crying because ult pool is limited to 500 and not infinite...)... well, it does not.

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Why all the DK leap hate? I’ve died to some well timed leaps, but so what? It’s a good ability but not crazy or anything.

I don’t get it.

@kalunte is a snipe spammer and probably died to a leap + executioner combo. Dodgeroll spamming nbs hate everything undodgable.

Sanguinor2

kalunte wrote: »

@jcm2606

simple answer for you: if a passive adds something to a skill, it is by any way you look at it, a buff (if it is positive) or a debuff (if it is negative).

Based on this statement, explain to me how restoring health, stamina and magicka when using an ult can be considered anything but positive.

if you cant, just admit that battle roar is a buff to ult and nothing less.

of course it could be better if it worked like balorgh's monster set (and even then i could find ppl crying because ult pool is limited to 500 and not infinite...)... well, it does not.

In the end we can probably agree to disagree, you are not gonna convince me and Im likely not gonna convince you.

One more Thing from my perspective, something that all classes get in different ways is no buff to the conditions in Question for me. I dont see leeching/siphoning as a buff to light attacks, I dont see templar rune as a buff to Major ward and resolve, etc.

kalunte

at least you admit that you dont get what a buff is. i'm done with you.

wheem_ESO

jcm2606 wrote: »

Sorc has Dark Exchange, Nightblade has Siphoning Strikes, Templar has Rune Focus, Warden has the netch, Necro has flat recovery when a summon is active. These are just one sustain tool available to the other classes, among a few others.

Nightblade has 15% extra recovery across all three stats, Sorc has extra mag recovery and mag return when you kill via execute, Templar has Repentance, Warden has an effective 250 magicka/stamina recovery via healing with a Green Balance ability, Necro has a resource restore tied to its purge and a corpse drain that restores stamina.

Battle Roar is literally just DK's alternative of all the above. In fact, I'd argue Battle Roar is worse than all the above, because it punishes you for holding your ultimate, on the class that lacks an execute because it has such a strong ultimate. I have to hold my leap to be able to bring a target down, and yet I'm punished for it through Battle Roar.

The Necromancer "Undead Confederate" passive costs more Magicka to keep active than it returns, and that's even assuming you don't have your regeneration get canceled out by Mist Form or Ice Staff blocking. And both tether abilities are essentially worthless in PvP, for several reasons (not to mention that Mystic Siphon, even if you did decide to use it, barely returns more Magicka than it costs if you have the cost reduction of Breton + 5 Light Armor, and get the entire 12 second duration without having the tether broken). While DKs might not have the best sustain options out there, it's still better than Necromancer.

Davadin

kalunte wrote: »

@jcm2606

of course they dont have similar ressource managment skills, neither passive nor active, but i'm pretty sure they have other interesting passives that give fire dmg or armor or health recovery or healing received or even magicka and stam recovery or just stam recovery? i'm only making a short list tho. this makes the class different not weaker nor stronger. you wont ever had another class' regen but no other class will reach dk in other elements (fire dmg for exemple) and this as very little to do with ults anyway

@Sanguinor2

simple answer for you: if a passive adds something to a skill, it is by any way you look at it, a buff (if it is positive) or a debuff (if it is negative).

Based on this statement, explain to me how restoring health, stamina and magicka when using an ult can be considered anything but positive.
.

uh.... because they are 4 different stats?

because your definition of a buff is too wide?

it is a buff given by ult, yes.
it is a buff to health/stam/mag, yes.

is it a buff *TO* ult?

does it increase your ultimate count?


no. it is not.

JumpmanLane

leepalmer95 wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

uLtImAtEs ShOuLd NoT hAvE cOuNtErS

just block. i block most leaps unless they come from out of los.

Its an instant skill, if they cast it point blank you can't really predict the leap in advance.

Duel more. You most certainly can predict when a leap is coming in a 1v1. Which is all that really matters. (You’ll recognize the combos).If you die to leap xv1 you deserve it. If you’re 1vXing you’re probably fighting pugs with weak leaps anyways. You should survive.

Didn't realise the game is based around 1v1's.

Oh wait it isn't.

Sorry we aren't all physic and can know when multiple people are going to ult...


I have no problem with leap at all, DB is just better.

I mentioned 1v1, 1vX, and Xv1. If you're dying to a bunch of zerglings coordinated leaps it's possible you're squishier than you suppose.