Death comes too quickly

pieratsos

jcm2606 wrote: »

And behold, the two extremes of the combat system, that are inevitably drawn together, only to be pushed further apart. Base TTK is far too low, so people build tanky, so people build for higher damage, so base TTK is pushed even lower, so people build tanky...

Combat needs to be normalized such that nobody feels forced into the extremes to stand a chance. Damage needs to be brought down, at the same time that survival needs to be brought down. Unfortunately, this requires more than just adjusting numbers, so it probably won't happen.

Solariken wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

But what about the tank meta?

That's not a thing in BG's. It's weird because you do see it in NoCP Cyro but it's almost like the BG Battle Spirit is totally different.

The tank meta isn't as bad in BG's, or non-CP in general really, but it absolutely is a thing. A fair few times I've ran across builds with 30k+ health that take next to no damage, but can turn around and drop you. And a fair few more times I've ran across builds with upwards of 40k health, that don't deal much damage, but can absolutely hold an objective, even with multiple people on them.

Amen. Bring back softcaps.

BigBadVolk

Lets give everyone 100k base health ez solution!

Muzzick

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

But what about the tank meta?

What about the new premade meta? Are there any guides to this

akray21

The problem is that both damage and healing are too high. You are either at full health or zero. There needs to be more play between 33% and 66% health to have more interesting engagements.

Iskiab

akray21 wrote: »

The problem is that both damage and healing are too high. You are either at full health or zero. There needs to be more play between 33% and 66% health to have more interesting engagements.

Yup, I’ve said this for a while. Increase the pvp buff to 10k health and add a crit resists mundus stone.

The glass canons who depend on bursting people would hate it, but everyone else would love it.

It would also reduce the value of shields because people couldn’t be bursted in less then 3 seconds.

Seraphayel

Iskiab wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

The problem is that both damage and healing are too high. You are either at full health or zero. There needs to be more play between 33% and 66% health to have more interesting engagements.

Yup, I’ve said this for a while. Increase the pvp buff to 10k health and add a crit resists mundus stone.

The glass canons who depend on bursting people would hate it, but everyone else would love it.

It would also reduce the value of shields because people couldn’t be bursted in less then 3 seconds.

Making people even tankier is no solution as it should be exclusively either damage / healing or tanky and not both or sometimes all of that at the same time (due to sets on top).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

The problem is that both damage and healing are too high. You are either at full health or zero. There needs to be more play between 33% and 66% health to have more interesting engagements.

Yup, I’ve said this for a while. Increase the pvp buff to 10k health and add a crit resists mundus stone.

The glass canons who depend on bursting people would hate it, but everyone else would love it.

It would also reduce the value of shields because people couldn’t be bursted in less then 3 seconds.

plug for adding crit resists to the lady mundus.

Right now, 2752 resists is not that appealing to most people. Putting ~1600 crit resistance* would make it a viable mundas, at least for PvP.

*I got that number based around the statement of ZOSs balance of mundai and 5 piece bonuses, that being a 5 piece is 2.31* a set piece and a mundus value is 1.85 a set bonus, so using impregnable armor, 2000/2.31= ~865 and 865*1.85= ~1601, this would put a divines piece at ~120, almost half an impen piece but you also get the regular resistance as well. Seems like a good trade off. with full divines, you would get 2441(-35%) crit resists and 4196 (6% damage mitigation) resists.

Though, that number, 1601 crits resist, without divines, might be too high, as that would be 23% crit resist. Though, again, since the base resists of the lady are only 3.89% damage reduction, that might be all right

Defilted

From all the threads that state it takes to long to kill someone. Nice to see the opposite...

Shantu

I've always felt that pressing the PVE system into PVP is like pushing a square peg in a round hole. It's never going to be "balanced". ZOS has simply created too many variables in their PVE to manage in a PVP system..and when they try, it ends up royally screwing something up in PVE. It would be better just to give everyone a sword, shield, and the same gear. Let fighting be a matter of group tactics and skill...not some dumb combination of gear and skills that turns into a meta build everyone clamors to get. Like dying from getting one-shotted with 5 skills at one time. It's boring. I really enjoy PVP at times but far too often I get a "This is just stupid!" feeling and leave. By the looks of most of the servers, I'm not alone.

master_vanargand

Tank won't die forever in duel.
The same can be done in BGs.

Moonsorrow

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

That said I really don't think it is good for the health of the game for active mitigation to provide such a drastic difference in performance, as much as it might be distasteful to those who use it to its fullest extent.

How and when to use the active mitigation (to not go out of resources, when to LoS instead to save resources, having a balanced build with enough damage yet enough to avoid damage at right times) should always be the thing that decides a win or loss.

You know what happens without active mitigation and knowledge when to use it being most important part of the game? It will be decided with just numbers. So the one with more numbers and first to hit you will always win. Interesting gameplay? I think NOT.

Things like that only empower the zergling playstyle where smashing 1 button with enough numbers would mean winning if several of them on you. Now can atleast dodge roll to LoS and strategically fight them.

Surely you must troll or do you seriously want to remove the whole skillful play, situational awareness, movement, resource management from the game that IS known as active mitigation. You know, to ACTIVELY play the game and do the right things instead of just 1 tank set + 2 proc sets and then running in a group spamming gap closer and 1 damage skill?

Seriously?

Moonsorrow

My observations from yesterday evenings battlegrounds, did around 20 of them at PC EU, solo queue, was that yes, some people die fast yes, but most really not. What separated them on my observation, well not really anything new, it has been like that since always in this game on Cyrodiil open world too, that people who do yolo moves, like in on open areas to gap close to other melee and open themselves up to take ranged damage from all sides on top of that get melted, obviously.

New people overly extend themselves like crazy out in open. After a while, you know the experienced players from how they move. They move so that always use LoS objects to not expose themselves too much to damage from many directions. Watching the angles where snipe spammers and magsorcs can pew pew you the minimum amount all the while you getting to smash enemies down. How you move and the decisions you make when and where to attack makes the BIGGEST difference on survival. Trust me on this.

I facepalm when i see things like someone gap closing in the center ring flag as an example against couple targets standing on the flag with several ranged enemies from the 3rd team at the upper level or edges of it, depending on map.. you know you get ranged spammed to death in seconds right? "i die in seconds!!" Well, duh... to your own mistake.

Own decisions and movement makes the biggest impact on the whole experience of PVP.

Using myself as an example, last night in those 20 bg matches i died 6 times. Yes, that is 6 times in all 20. And those happened when had couple matches against same discord premade. Yes, they chased me with effort lol. Average match was 12-0-10. Solo so no pocket healer. Stamsorc. 5p medium armor. DW/2H so melee in medium.

Biggest difference between my experience of pvp (not really dying fast or much) and the people who go do yolo decisions and die a lot? Just that i used a corridor that had full LoS to upstairs and hit them ranged people first. Most ranged go nearly full damage so get them first, not go gap closing the tanky one holding the flag while ranged peeps spam you to death. It is just all about simple decisions like that. Same in pure death matches, positioning, movement and timing is the key.

I hope this wall of text was a bit more helpful if anyone can look back on some of their deaths at pvp and see what could have made differently. Some would just say the "L2P" but i atleast try to describe what i see the problem is for many. and for that does not need to nerf or buff anything, just train decision making, moving, kiting, rolling, blocking when needs. Comes with experience if willing to learn.

Luede

bad players die fast, good players survive much longer.

Toc de Malsvi

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

That said I really don't think it is good for the health of the game for active mitigation to provide such a drastic difference in performance, as much as it might be distasteful to those who use it to its fullest extent.

How and when to use the active mitigation (to not go out of resources, when to LoS instead to save resources, having a balanced build with enough damage yet enough to avoid damage at right times) should always be the thing that decides a win or loss.

You know what happens without active mitigation and knowledge when to use it being most important part of the game? It will be decided with just numbers. So the one with more numbers and first to hit you will always win. Interesting gameplay? I think NOT.

Things like that only empower the zergling playstyle where smashing 1 button with enough numbers would mean winning if several of them on you. Now can atleast dodge roll to LoS and strategically fight them.

Surely you must troll or do you seriously want to remove the whole skillful play, situational awareness, movement, resource management from the game that IS known as active mitigation. You know, to ACTIVELY play the game and do the right things instead of just 1 tank set + 2 proc sets and then running in a group spamming gap closer and 1 damage skill?

Seriously?

You don't seem to understand what drastic means. Not advocating for removal of active mitigation only reduction in the mitigation value it provides. Despite your ridiculous hyperbole choices of skills an when to use them also play a significant role in determining outcomes.

SodanTok

Death doesnt come quickly enough. When you cant kill unprepared enemy or someone that made mistake in 2sec it just means you cant kill prepared or without mistakes enemy ever.
Nearly every competitive game incorporates way for players to dispatch of someone quickly or mechanics of weariness that makes any further engagements harder and harder. ESO barely tries and mostly offers even better tools to avoid these mechanics.
People can duel 1v1 for infinite time on certain builds because of how (rather easily) is to build with enough mitigation and healing to negate incoming damage and sustain which should act as weariness mechanic (in game with on demand healing) is again mostly non issue.

Only reason death comes too quickly for certain people is because of how the game works (or doesnt) and damage that cannot kill average player in 2s will never ever kill any competent player with good mitigation.

Toc de Malsvi

A wide array of skills have been made undodgeable, this is because Dodgeroll had 100% mitigation to skills that could be dodged. Still dodgeroll over performed, so now they tweaked the window. This results in a more luck of the draw effect, where your own latency and your opponents latency has a more significant effect on your ability to dodge things then your own actions. This is precisely because the active mitigation of the dodgeroll is too high.

A similar story can be found with block. Block was too easy to use to mitigate and while it did not mitigate 100% of Damage, it benefited from your own resistance as well. So blockhead it's cost increase significantly. But that wasn't enough so bleeds were buffed and Ground placed dots were made the bypass block. Still block remains the most all around effective active Mitigation, which has resulted in a high use of sword and board on at least one bar.

Because block and dodge still offer so significant mitigation, damage has increased to be able to tackle targets that are seemingly invincible. Because damage has increased targets that are not invincible, spike, so healing is increased. Because healing has increased the targets that were invincible solo just have a healer help them and are invincible again.

The result is a system where players who take advantage active mitigation to its fullest, broken or over powered skill/set usage, and group support are essentially invincible from anyone not also using all three of those effectively. However those who lack one or more of those three key functions are weaker. And those who lack all of those functions are incredibly weak and easily killed by anyone.

SkysOutThizeOut

@festher your issue is premades,learning to position (bgs is posturing and repsotiotining), maybe a mechanical learning curve, maybe understanding player queues, and maybe not recognizing the hard hitters in your mmr. If anything this is a tank meta. 3 super sweaty try hard premades fight and the high score is 195 at the end of a 15 minute tdm...

Micah_Bayer

Lokey0024 wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

But what about the tank meta?

There is no "tank meta". At least not in none CP PvP - which this OP is referring to since they mention battlegrounds.

All of these supposed unkillable tanks running around with great damage is a myth. They simply don't exist. It's a forum conspiracy as far as I'm concerned.

HA HA HA.

Super sturdy brawler builds are everywhere in no-CP battlegrounds. Pure 'tanks' with 40k health and stacked mitigation are rare, its true, but the tanky meta-brawler builds are a thing. 25-30k health, good mitigation, supercharged heals & enough burst & dps to rack up kills.

Next time you run into one, record it. I'm guessing it's a snipe spammer or another source of dps getting you or you bleeding out. I would like to see this

Tank class that dishes out 10k bashes us a necro. 100k health and more dmg than anything else Is just one example

Toc de Malsvi

Reducing the effectiveness of the mitigation provided by active mitigation is one way to tackle this issue. I would like to stress though it is not the only way.

Another way to tackle this it's to change the way active mitigation works sort of. For instance:

Let dodge mitigate all attacks, however increase the cost significantly to dodge such that a player can only die once or twice even in medium armor. Also open up the window to Dodge to what it was in the past.

Let block with a shield mitigate 100% of damage in a 180° cone to the front. Let blocking without a shield reduce 50% of the damage in the 180° cone to the front. Also reduce the cost of Block significantly. Also reduce the movement speed while blocking.

Increase absorb strength significantly but also increase the cost of absorbs significantly.

Finally tone down damage and healing accordingly.


This is just an example of something that could be done, not saying it's perfect or what should be done. I'm certain other players could come up with good ideas for Systems to address this. I'm also fairly certain that active mitigation is not healthy in it's current state.

Moonsorrow

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Reducing the effectiveness of the mitigation provided by active mitigation is one way to tackle this issue. I would like to stress though it is not the only way.

No thanks.

Pretty much the only people who play archers & other ranged projectile spammers and generic zerglings see a problem with dodge and block mitigation. Nerfing dodge and block empowers snipe spam type of play and it would also make surviving ganks even harder. You know, the topic here started because of too fast deaths.

Oh wait, i forgot you play archers on all classes.. Nevermind.

You would actually make people die even faster to just ranged 1 button snipe spammers.

Cannot really take you seriously after this, sorry.

And as always as a bonus, you would just end up nerfing tanking for pve too. But who cares huh? As long as snipe hits harder yayyyy...

There is a saying: No need to start fixing something that is not broken. Your model of nerfing active mitigations, then nerfing damages, then healing, then sets, then __insert your next "good" idea here_, would start the whole damage number balancing from scratch too. Same for healing, everything almost what comes to combat mechanics.

Or people who die a lot just train and fight until not die so much? No need for massive balance nightmare. I guess too simple solution?

Game mechanics are good and nice right now. Performance issues if fixed things would be nearly perfect.

Iskiab

Moonsorrow wrote: »

My observations from yesterday evenings battlegrounds, did around 20 of them at PC EU, solo queue, was that yes, some people die fast yes, but most really not. What separated them on my observation, well not really anything new, it has been like that since always in this game on Cyrodiil open world too, that people who do yolo moves, like in on open areas to gap close to other melee and open themselves up to take ranged damage from all sides on top of that get melted, obviously.

New people overly extend themselves like crazy out in open. After a while, you know the experienced players from how they move. They move so that always use LoS objects to not expose themselves too much to damage from many directions. Watching the angles where snipe spammers and magsorcs can pew pew you the minimum amount all the while you getting to smash enemies down. How you move and the decisions you make when and where to attack makes the BIGGEST difference on survival. Trust me on this.

I facepalm when i see things like someone gap closing in the center ring flag as an example against couple targets standing on the flag with several ranged enemies from the 3rd team at the upper level or edges of it, depending on map.. you know you get ranged spammed to death in seconds right? "i die in seconds!!" Well, duh... to your own mistake.

Own decisions and movement makes the biggest impact on the whole experience of PVP.

Using myself as an example, last night in those 20 bg matches i died 6 times. Yes, that is 6 times in all 20. And those happened when had couple matches against same discord premade. Yes, they chased me with effort lol. Average match was 12-0-10. Solo so no pocket healer. Stamsorc. 5p medium armor. DW/2H so melee in medium.

Biggest difference between my experience of pvp (not really dying fast or much) and the people who go do yolo decisions and die a lot? Just that i used a corridor that had full LoS to upstairs and hit them ranged people first. Most ranged go nearly full damage so get them first, not go gap closing the tanky one holding the flag while ranged peeps spam you to death. It is just all about simple decisions like that. Same in pure death matches, positioning, movement and timing is the key.

I hope this wall of text was a bit more helpful if anyone can look back on some of their deaths at pvp and see what could have made differently. Some would just say the "L2P" but i atleast try to describe what i see the problem is for many. and for that does not need to nerf or buff anything, just train decision making, moving, kiting, rolling, blocking when needs. Comes with experience if willing to learn.

This is only true for a solo type gameplay. When you go against premades or groups with healers in BGs these kind of groups always lose.

If a group of 4 rushes these kind of players they scatter and play totally defensively so you can pick them off one at a time. This is where the ‘stam advantage’ perception of some players come from. It changes in some higher MMR games, and the reason most players don’t like having stealth NBs in their group. They never rush with others and for the most part play separately from the group.

That’s not to say you should always be aggressive, but knowing when to be aggressive is important.

As a healer it’s against two teams like this where I go 7-0 as a healer.

The biggest thing newer players don’t do is heal. Except maybe sorcs, if a player shows 0 healing at the end of the match they’re a carry. For stam that means they didn’t cast vigor once.

Moonsorrow

Iskiab wrote: »

[

This is only true for a solo type gameplay. When you go against premades or groups with healers in BGs these kind of groups always lose.

When solo queuing (i do most times) yeah the times when against discord premades (people i know and sometimes team up with too) depends on mood, either avoiding them and scoring kills in and out when opportunity when they focus on others.. or trolling them with CC and making them chase me and hoping someone from my team uses that time to score some points, depending on bg mode.

Because really often when against a premade i end up being only one left on my team (or people come in and leave when see certain groups), when many solo players just leave the bg because without comms trying to take down a pro team with a dedicated healer..

But that whole premade vs real random groups is an issue of its own just because we do not have separate queues.

New people when they get steamrolled by a tight group will eventually learn that there is not a problem in the actual game mechanics, if they were on that group coordinating ultimates and having a dedicated healer keeping them topped up, they would be the one killing others fast instead of dying fast.

YEARS ago i also died fast. I admit that. Because of my own mistakes.

lol i still remember the first and one of the most important things what started to make me a better pvp player on ESO - putting important things like Break free on its own key binds on keys that were comfortable to use for me on my keyboard instead of the basic settings.

2nd was when i decided to not join big groups but to always when defending keeps to be fighting outside and not shoot from walls. So i went always, even alone to harass the siegers no matter how many was there. It was me gitting gud with the do it or die trying method. I was cute and innocent back then. Nowadays i run circles around rocks and farm people with expressionless face. Just joking, its fun.

Sidetracked a bit sorry.. Time for some Cyrodiil now, hope all have a good day of fun pvp action!

Iskiab

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

[

This is only true for a solo type gameplay. When you go against premades or groups with healers in BGs these kind of groups always lose.

When solo queuing (i do most times) yeah the times when against discord premades (people i know and sometimes team up with too) depends on mood, either avoiding them and scoring kills in and out when opportunity when they focus on others.. or trolling them with CC and making them chase me and hoping someone from my team uses that time to score some points, depending on bg mode.

Because really often when against a premade i end up being only one left on my team (or people come in and leave when see certain groups), when many solo players just leave the bg because without comms trying to take down a pro team with a dedicated healer..

But that whole premade vs real random groups is an issue of its own just because we do not have separate queues.

New people when they get steamrolled by a tight group will eventually learn that there is not a problem in the actual game mechanics, if they were on that group coordinating ultimates and having a dedicated healer keeping them topped up, they would be the one killing others fast instead of dying fast.

YEARS ago i also died fast. I admit that. Because of my own mistakes.

lol i still remember the first and one of the most important things what started to make me a better pvp player on ESO - putting important things like Break free on its own key binds on keys that were comfortable to use for me on my keyboard instead of the basic settings.

2nd was when i decided to not join big groups but to always when defending keeps to be fighting outside and not shoot from walls. So i went always, even alone to harass the siegers no matter how many was there. It was me gitting gud with the do it or die trying method. I was cute and innocent back then. Nowadays i run circles around rocks and farm people with expressionless face. Just joking, its fun.

Sidetracked a bit sorry.. Time for some Cyrodiil now, hope all have a good day of fun pvp action!

I’ve been accused of being in premades all the time, when really I’m solo queuing. I think the thing is to recognize your team mates and adapt.

I was looking at my win rate in death matches and I’m over 50% in higher MMR, that must be against premades too. It can be done, but admittedly me being a healer makes things so much easier. There are a lot of good players who only queue solo. Sometimes it’s not a premade but two players queuing together like YcCid or whatever and his friend, or Mercii and another person but still started randomly (mentioning them because I saw them in a lot of games yesterday).

One thing I’ve noticed about them is they’re healable, meaning they never go from 100% to dead in less then 3 or so seconds, players who do I can’t do anything for them (which is why I hate glass canon specs).

Moonsorrow

Iskiab wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

[

This is only true for a solo type gameplay. When you go against premades or groups with healers in BGs these kind of groups always lose.

When solo queuing (i do most times) yeah the times when against discord premades (people i know and sometimes team up with too) depends on mood, either avoiding them and scoring kills in and out when opportunity when they focus on others.. or trolling them with CC and making them chase me and hoping someone from my team uses that time to score some points, depending on bg mode.

Because really often when against a premade i end up being only one left on my team (or people come in and leave when see certain groups), when many solo players just leave the bg because without comms trying to take down a pro team with a dedicated healer..

But that whole premade vs real random groups is an issue of its own just because we do not have separate queues.

New people when they get steamrolled by a tight group will eventually learn that there is not a problem in the actual game mechanics, if they were on that group coordinating ultimates and having a dedicated healer keeping them topped up, they would be the one killing others fast instead of dying fast.

YEARS ago i also died fast. I admit that. Because of my own mistakes.

lol i still remember the first and one of the most important things what started to make me a better pvp player on ESO - putting important things like Break free on its own key binds on keys that were comfortable to use for me on my keyboard instead of the basic settings.

2nd was when i decided to not join big groups but to always when defending keeps to be fighting outside and not shoot from walls. So i went always, even alone to harass the siegers no matter how many was there. It was me gitting gud with the do it or die trying method. I was cute and innocent back then. Nowadays i run circles around rocks and farm people with expressionless face. Just joking, its fun.

Sidetracked a bit sorry.. Time for some Cyrodiil now, hope all have a good day of fun pvp action!

I’ve been accused of being in premades all the time, when really I’m solo queuing. I think the thing is to recognize your team mates and adapt.

I was looking at my win rate in death matches and I’m over 50% in higher MMR, that must be against premades too. It can be done, but admittedly me being a healer makes things so much easier. There are a lot of good players who only queue solo.

Yes it can be done, personally i am sad so many give up after they see certain names. Winning majority of my bgs too, often against premades too, and yes - when IN a premade obviously also. Doing bgs in a 2 people premade only nowadays though.

Heh, only ONCE in my whole ESO bg career have i almost considered leaving the bg.. when 3rd match in a row ended up against same premade of 4 WW who all had 2 wolf pets morhp, all transforming same time, with torugs when there still was that bug that ww bleed procced enchants.. on under lvl 50 bgs. Was so fun to everyone. Not.

But yeah, been on a lot battles that enemies thought my team was a premade. Sometimes things and players work so well together, even without a single word said on chat. Happens too luckily that way also.

Iskiab

Yea, there was a dude yesterday who came back from a break and had a really good reputation I saw on another team. He ended up dropping the game but people mentioned him because I think they were intimidated.

Reputation is so important, it puts people off their game. In another game Warhammer my guild was the first to kill the emperor and had a really good reputation. We’d have 20 players and groups of 80 would run from us, funny thing is them running and not fighting back was one of the main reasons we could take so many, they wouldn’t fight back.

I think I see that a lot in BGs too. A lot of players shield up and them play aggressively, other players counter by going into a defensive downward spiral until they die and stop fighting back. Healing/shielding ahead of damage is huge, anticipating damage and being prepared allows you to put someone else on the defensive.

Toc de Malsvi

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Reducing the effectiveness of the mitigation provided by active mitigation is one way to tackle this issue. I would like to stress though it is not the only way.

No thanks.

Pretty much the only people who play archers & other ranged projectile spammers and generic zerglings see a problem with dodge and block mitigation. Nerfing dodge and block empowers snipe spam type of play and it would also make surviving ganks even harder. You know, the topic here started because of too fast deaths.

Oh wait, i forgot you play archers on all classes.. Nevermind.

You would actually make people die even faster to just ranged 1 button snipe spammers.

Cannot really take you seriously after this, sorry.

And as always as a bonus, you would just end up nerfing tanking for pve too. But who cares huh? As long as snipe hits harder yayyyy...

There is a saying: No need to start fixing something that is not broken. Your model of nerfing active mitigations, then nerfing damages, then healing, then sets, then __insert your next "good" idea here_, would start the whole damage number balancing from scratch too. Same for healing, everything almost what comes to combat mechanics.

Or people who die a lot just train and fight until not die so much? No need for massive balance nightmare. I guess too simple solution?

Game mechanics are good and nice right now. Performance issues if fixed things would be nearly perfect.

Feel free to scan my youtube channel for my snipe spam. I'm sure I used it more than twice somewhere in there .

It might be intelligent to actually consider the argument or discussion instead of resulting to personal attacks with no actual knowledge of the person you are attempting to attack.

Your bigotry aside, there is legitimate reason to argue that changes may make things worse. That doesn't invalidate that active mitigation may be the direct cause of the perceived too-tanky/too-bursty pvp experience.

Iskiab

I think one thing leading to a bursty experience is lag. I died once and looked at my death recap and there was almost nothing there except my Healthy Offering self damage and one execute. Felt to me like I went from 100-0 really fast so I’m not sure what happened, I’m thinking lag and the damage didn’t register for a bit and then all at once.

Moonsorrow

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Reducing the effectiveness of the mitigation provided by active mitigation is one way to tackle this issue. I would like to stress though it is not the only way.

No thanks.

Pretty much the only people who play archers & other ranged projectile spammers and generic zerglings see a problem with dodge and block mitigation. Nerfing dodge and block empowers snipe spam type of play and it would also make surviving ganks even harder. You know, the topic here started because of too fast deaths.

Oh wait, i forgot you play archers on all classes.. Nevermind.

You would actually make people die even faster to just ranged 1 button snipe spammers.

Cannot really take you seriously after this, sorry.

And as always as a bonus, you would just end up nerfing tanking for pve too. But who cares huh? As long as snipe hits harder yayyyy...

There is a saying: No need to start fixing something that is not broken. Your model of nerfing active mitigations, then nerfing damages, then healing, then sets, then __insert your next "good" idea here_, would start the whole damage number balancing from scratch too. Same for healing, everything almost what comes to combat mechanics.

Or people who die a lot just train and fight until not die so much? No need for massive balance nightmare. I guess too simple solution?

Game mechanics are good and nice right now. Performance issues if fixed things would be nearly perfect.

Feel free to scan my youtube channel for my snipe spam. I'm sure I used it more than twice somewhere in there .

It might be intelligent to actually consider the argument or discussion instead of resulting to personal attacks with no actual knowledge of the person you are attempting to attack.

Your bigotry aside, there is legitimate reason to argue that changes may make things worse. That doesn't invalidate that active mitigation may be the direct cause of the perceived too-tanky/too-bursty pvp experience.

Lets just agree to disagree on this issue.

And in hindsight, sorry about the tone in my answer to you.. it was not a personal attack, but more like a long sigh in a form of words comment out of pure frustration that happens when reads this forum and so many of the topics are just sort of "nerf this and that" requests to change the game to be more suitable to the playstyle of the one asking. Not many wanna train, or try different gear or consider changing their own playstyle a bit to see if it helps first.

I mean, if the game would change to what many people here ask, it would change to something that even they themselves might not like at all. You know a small change might start a chain reaction of adjustments (nerfs) that could have been avoided in the first place.

Maybe i try next time say it like this, again, instead of blaming all the archers in Tamriel of wanting to just kill everything with snipe spam. Still, some of them would like that and feel it as riveting gameplay, imagine that.

Current pvp mechanics are great, and i often fear that ZOS listens to some of the really weird vocal nerf requests and they make this all go away. Now it has somewhat steep learning curve to new pvpers, but.. its all worth it if spends the time to get it all go smooth.

Seraphayel

Iskiab wrote: »

I think one thing leading to a bursty experience is lag. I died once and looked at my death recap and there was almost nothing there except my Healthy Offering self damage and one execute. Felt to me like I went from 100-0 really fast so I’m not sure what happened, I’m thinking lag and the damage didn’t register for a bit and then all at once.

This happens so so often and it’s more than just frustrating, it’s killing fun. Happens to me every battleground, I approach another player or a group, it lags and two seconds later I go from 100% to death within one or two seconds and can do nothing against it because I am already dead yet the game isn’t aware of it due to health desynch, delay, lag or whatever.