Stop making my character be an idiot

HorrorShow

Game: This mystical crown can control all elves!

Me: Well damn guess I'm the new ruler of all elves. First thing i'll do is-

Game: You can destroy it and Raz dies, or not destroy it and Raz lives.

Me: Damn you game you can't force that choice on me! I a have wanted him dead since first meeting him! No. I must be smart. I will rule all elves. I can just order them to kill him after. Okay, keep the crown and let dumb old Raz live.

Game: You saved Raz! And also gave him the crown to go hide somewhere!

Me: WHY?? Why would I do that?

Now I understand. For the reality of game balance purposes the game can't give me that kind of power. But then don't put me in a situation where I would have to be a brain damaged goblin to make the stupid stupid stupid choices that the writers seem to think qualify as 'heroic'.

Easy solution? Have the crown not work. Have it not do what legend says and it was really just old scrolls that were translated wrong. Now my character got to make a smart choice, but still did not become a game breaking powerhouse.

I just needed to rant and get this off my chest. I hate when my character is turned into an idiot by the game's writing.

Wildberryjack

Yeah I remember that quest, sorry but ole Raz would be SO dead. I'm not a hero, I'm an adventurer and gun for hire and if I come across something that will give me the power to be the ruler of the world you can bet I'm keeping it and using it. Say hello to your new Overlord.

SirAndy

Wildberryjack wrote: »

Say hello to your new Overlord.

AcadianPaladin

My peeve in the dialogue options are when the only choice for my character to progress the quest is a stupid option like my Bosmer asking 'what is the green pact'. Or having to ask, 'who is Azura' when Azura has been my character's godmother since 2007 (Oblivion). More generally, having to ask questions that she would clearly know the answer to, only to be told she should clearly know the answer. Lol.

JamieAubrey

When he said do you remember all those adventures we had, I knew I would have a choice to save/let him die, ITS RAZ so I let him live

WhiteCoatSyndrome

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

More generally, having to ask questions that she would clearly know the answer to, only to be told she should clearly know the answer. Lol.

Second this. I really hate the ones where I've carved through a small army of enemy combatants to get the bad guy's diary and it tells me 'my evil plan needs X, so I can do Y'...and then I take the diary back to some NPC and they're all, 'they're after X! Oh no! They must be planning to do Y!'...and my character's response is along the lines of 'dur...they are?'

fierackas

I wouldn't mind but I made the choice to get rid of the stupid cat and yet he keeps coming back

opaj

When I saw this thread, I assumed the complaint would be along @AcadianPaladin 's idea. While the writing has generally been getting better and better every year, we are continually forced to ask questions that make our characters seem like morons in order to advance in our quests.

Often times, this could be circumvented by having them say, "Tell me more about Azura" instead of "Who's Azura?" Sometimes I try to pretend that's what I said, but then the NPC responds by saying, "You don't know who Azura is? What are you, some kind of idiot?" I guess the answer must be yes. At least, that's how I've been written.

(This kind of answer-response has happened to me twice in Elsweyr alone, and I've only done the new tutorial and first main quest so far.)

As for OP's request... I guess I see your point, but I might argue that keeping the crown isn't necessarily the "smart" choice so much as the "ruthless/evil/sociopathic" choice. I actually have the inverse complaint about Bangkorai, where you are frequently forced to go down evil or ethically questionable paths, like allying with the greater evil of the Reachmen in order to murder Imperial spies in public, or supporting Queen Arzhela when she heroically attempts to kill her adversary during parlay.

ellahellabella

Imagine how handy that crown would be in the time Skyrim happens. 2 birds, 1 stone.
All hail your new dragonborn emperor!

max_only

When I did that quest I just shrugged because everyone knows there’s no such thing as a crown that can control all mer. Maybe all Altmer and Dunmer, they’re easy to control, but Orismer would be included? I think not.

cyclonus11

Me, an Argonian:

What is the Hist?
Who is Sithis?
Do I have a cloaca?

ryzen_gamer_gal

Well I destroyed it. Raz died, who, by the way, i like. And then summerset came out and Raz is alive. SO much for story lines.

warabi

ryzen_gamer_gal wrote: »

Well I destroyed it. Raz died, who, by the way, i like. And then summerset came out and Raz is alive. SO much for story lines.

If you finish the AD questline he comes back after that. I destroyed it because that's what Raz wanted, but I'm glad he didn't actually die (unlike another certain character I loved *cries*).

Anyway, I get how you feel when your character has to ask stupid things. I understand it's for the narrative to help people who don't know what's going on to get a better grasp on the story, but sometimes I just facepalm at my character's derp.

Bryath

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My peeve in the dialogue options are when the only choice for my character to progress the quest is a stupid option like my Bosmer asking 'what is the green pact'. Or having to ask, 'who is Azura' when Azura has been my character's godmother since 2007 (Oblivion). More generally, having to ask questions that she would clearly know the answer to, only to be told she should clearly know the answer. Lol.

Also when you return to the NPC and he says something like 'Well done on defeating _____! You have saved us all!", and your response is to say 'I just defeated _____'. Ugggh.

TheShadowScout

HorrorShow wrote: »

Now I understand. For the reality of game balance purposes the game can't give me that kind of power. But then don't put me in a situation where I would have to be a brain damaged goblin to make the stupid stupid stupid choices that the writers seem to think qualify as 'heroic'.

...or at least give a nice selection of other choices as well. I mean... not so heroic heroes that make selfish choices and end up saving the day through sheer circumstance are not exactly unknown in the fantasy genre. Heck, most of Conans adventures went that way as I recall...

HorrorShow wrote: »

Easy solution? Have the crown not work. Have it not do what legend says and it was really just old scrolls that were translated wrong.

Or simply have the enchantments not stood up too well to the test of ages? Or unbeknowingst to the people there, was used up and drained to save the world in the distant part and is now only good as paperweight? Or only works for one specific bloodline... that has since died out? Or require rituals... that need something which is no longer available (like a ayleid priest or lost artifact, or whatnot?) Or... something!

There are so many, many ways to make an "great artifact" unusable... (BtW, I wish that would also have been used to "disarm" a certain thingie you can either keep or lock away on Betnik... and possibly a few other ones...)

HorrorShow wrote: »

I just needed to rant and get this off my chest. I hate when my character is turned into an idiot by the game's writing.

I agree.
I hate it too when your choices are so limited.
Like... that time in Heimlyn keep, where my ruthless covenent-hating dunmer assassinatrix has to let the covenant soldier leave alive? Why would she do that?
Or... that time my painfully lawful goody-two-greaves paladin wannabe orcess was forcibly inducted into the thieved guild upon visiting Abah's Landing. Waitwhut? She would never join those guys!
And so on... the list is long!

And that is why I often wish the quests gave more -options- for us to follow...

ryzen_gamer_gal wrote: »

Well I destroyed it. Raz died, who, by the way, i like. And then summerset came out and Raz is alive. SO much for story lines.

He is alive even at the end of that map. Standing right there with the rest of the newly saved Khajiit, and if you talk to him at the right time, he even has a remark of how he got out through lots of jumping and such...

...personally I keep wondering if Raz isn't some kahjiti demigod or something. I could totally see Rahjin be his daddy or something like that...

hmsdragonfly

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My peeve in the dialogue options are when the only choice for my character to progress the quest is a stupid option like my Bosmer asking 'what is the green pact'. Or having to ask, 'who is Azura' when Azura has been my character's godmother since 2007 (Oblivion). More generally, having to ask questions that she would clearly know the answer to, only to be told she should clearly know the answer. Lol.

I dont remember any quest that force you to ask questions about basic TES lore like that to progress. Can you remind me of any of them?

TheShadowScout

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

I dont remember any quest that force you to ask questions about basic TES lore like that to progress.

No quest forces those. They -are- optional dialouge tho. As such... just don't pick those lines on characters who ought to know, and leave those parts of the converations for your alts who wouldn't. Easy enough.

More annoying is the aforementioned dialouges that are set up from a "tabula rasa" state of knowledge to catch those whose characters join the game at a later tutorial and have not yet played the "first meeting" quest in the mainstory, to make those the "first meetings" - which is grating for those who DID.
As for that... see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/480322/how-does-my-character-not-know-how-a-dragonhorn-works

AcadianPaladin

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My peeve in the dialogue options are when the only choice for my character to progress the quest is a stupid option like my Bosmer asking 'what is the green pact'. Or having to ask, 'who is Azura' when Azura has been my character's godmother since 2007 (Oblivion). More generally, having to ask questions that she would clearly know the answer to, only to be told she should clearly know the answer. Lol.

I dont remember any quest that force you to ask questions about basic TES lore like that to progress. Can you remind me of any of them?

Not by name, no. I do try to avoid picking the dumb lines like 'Who is Azura?'. That is why I know that sometimes a dumb option like that or 'Goodbye' are the only two choices. If I choose 'Goodbye' then the quest arrow remains over the NPC's head so I have to talk to them and ask the dumb choice. Most of the time you can avoid it but not all the time.

ArchMikem

I do get a bit peeved when my khajiit gets options that implies she doesnt know about common khajiiti knowledge. But really thats for the player, not the character.

Zacuel

Haha goes to show the choices we do make don't matter at all. Whether we kill Raz or Sai.

It's just for flavor.

Ravena

Who's Azura? Who's Molag Bal? What is Varen's war? What is Saxhleel/the Hist [as an Argonian]? Why are there two moons? What's a skooma? What are Redguards? What's the white gold tower? What's the Empire? What are Daedra? Remind me of this one big cataclismic event that I've literally just been through? Who are you again? What's a Tamriel? Are we on Nirn? Is Nirn flat? Have you heard of the High Elves?

The player character is an oaf who's been living under a rock if you're to go by player choices and dialogue. At least in the latest expansions even the NPCs start acknowledging it.

Glurin

Wasn't there something about a passphrase to make that crown work? If I remember right, you can ask Raz about what's stopping you from taking the crown and ruling the world and he makes some kind of joke and then mentions a passphrase.

If so, the OP's concerns was already addressed in that quest. The crown doesn't work, so your options are destroy it to make sure it never works, or save Raz and have him hide it somewhere.

SteveCampsOut

HorrorShow wrote: »

Game: This mystical crown can control all elves!

Me: Well damn guess I'm the new ruler of all elves. First thing i'll do is-

Game: You can destroy it and Raz dies, or not destroy it and Raz lives.

Me: Damn you game you can't force that choice on me! I a have wanted him dead since first meeting him! No. I must be smart. I will rule all elves. I can just order them to kill him after. Okay, keep the crown and let dumb old Raz live.

Game: You saved Raz! And also gave him the crown to go hide somewhere!

Me: WHY?? Why would I do that?

Now I understand. For the reality of game balance purposes the game can't give me that kind of power. But then don't put me in a situation where I would have to be a brain damaged goblin to make the stupid stupid stupid choices that the writers seem to think qualify as 'heroic'.

Easy solution? Have the crown not work. Have it not do what legend says and it was really just old scrolls that were translated wrong. Now my character got to make a smart choice, but still did not become a game breaking powerhouse.

I just needed to rant and get this off my chest. I hate when my character is turned into an idiot by the game's writing.

It's a bit late in the day to call this a spoiler but we all know that even if you chose to kill him he doesn't die. He comes back none the worse for wear in several DLC's.

Linaleah

of all the times when they game makes our characters act with breathtaking obliviousness and stupidity.. this. this is the hill you chose to die on?

I'm sorry but... every time I was sitting there seething at an obvious trap that my character was walking into and couldn't say anything about, including the most recent multiple instances during Elsweyr story and.. this. this is the part that bothers you to the point of making a thread about it.

sigh.

that said.. it really would be nice if the game at least gave me an option to occasionally point out that the plan npc wants me to go along with is dumb and not going to work. they could then say - this is my plan and i'm sticking to it you can help or leave (and let you abandon the quest if you chose to leave or something of that nature). but at least it won't make me look at my supposedly smart character and go... how... HOW can you not see something that obvious, HOW?

jainiadral

My favorite was about halfway through Elsweyr's main story when my toon asked Abnur Tharn about how the dragons got there.

"Are you suffering brain damage? You and I...something about the dungeon DLC."

No I didn't. I don't do group content. Asked something else.

"[Snarky comment]. You and I did... something about the prelude quest."

No, I didn't.

*bashes head against keyboard*

Ravena

jainiadral wrote: »

My favorite was about halfway through Elsweyr's main story when my toon asked Abnur Tharn about how the dragons got there.

"Are you suffering brain damage? You and I...something about the dungeon DLC."

No I didn't. I don't do group content. Asked something else.

"[Snarky comment]. You and I did... something about the prelude quest."

No, I didn't.

*bashes head against keyboard*

I love how everyone in Elsweyr acts like you're brain damaged when you ask them the classic stupid questions.

Ildun

Quest giver: Listen, the plan is you do A, then do B and then do C. First you do A

My character: Then, what next?

Quest giver: Then do B

My character: Then, what next?

Quest giver: Then do C


*Me watching 2 *** repeat themselves.

jainiadral

Ravena wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

My favorite was about halfway through Elsweyr's main story when my toon asked Abnur Tharn about how the dragons got there.

"Are you suffering brain damage? You and I...something about the dungeon DLC."

No I didn't. I don't do group content. Asked something else.

"[Snarky comment]. You and I did... something about the prelude quest."

No, I didn't.

*bashes head against keyboard*

I love how everyone in Elsweyr acts like you're brain damaged when you ask them the classic stupid questions.

It's even better when you don't know the answers They really needed some kind of lorebook or something for non-DLC participants so you can avoid the trash talk.

Then again, trash talk is one of my biggest pet peeves so YMMV

max_only

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

HorrorShow wrote: »

Game: This mystical crown can control all elves!

Me: Well damn guess I'm the new ruler of all elves. First thing i'll do is-

Game: You can destroy it and Raz dies, or not destroy it and Raz lives.

Me: Damn you game you can't force that choice on me! I a have wanted him dead since first meeting him! No. I must be smart. I will rule all elves. I can just order them to kill him after. Okay, keep the crown and let dumb old Raz live.

Game: You saved Raz! And also gave him the crown to go hide somewhere!

Me: WHY?? Why would I do that?

Now I understand. For the reality of game balance purposes the game can't give me that kind of power. But then don't put me in a situation where I would have to be a brain damaged goblin to make the stupid stupid stupid choices that the writers seem to think qualify as 'heroic'.

Easy solution? Have the crown not work. Have it not do what legend says and it was really just old scrolls that were translated wrong. Now my character got to make a smart choice, but still did not become a game breaking powerhouse.

I just needed to rant and get this off my chest. I hate when my character is turned into an idiot by the game's writing.

It's a bit late in the day to call this a spoiler but we all know that even if you chose to kill him he doesn't die. He comes back none the worse for wear in several DLC's.

You don’t have to wait until a dlc. You can talk to him after you finish the main quest for the zone, he says he’s too hard to kill. Never was a thing.

ArchMikem

jainiadral wrote: »

My favorite was about halfway through Elsweyr's main story when my toon asked Abnur Tharn about how the dragons got there.

"Are you suffering brain damage? You and I...something about the dungeon DLC."

No I didn't. I don't do group content. Asked something else.

"[Snarky comment]. You and I did... something about the prelude quest."

No, I didn't.

*bashes head against keyboard*

Playing content out of chronological order must be fun.

mairwen85

fierackas wrote: »

I wouldn't mind but I made the choice to get rid of the stupid cat and yet he keeps coming back

Cats have 9 lives.

But this game is getting like a soap opera... No one dies perminantly, and there are no consequences to anything.

In the end we'll wake up, take a shower and realize it was all a dream.