Pirate Skeleton Set

Minno

kalunte wrote: »

@Minno

As i essentially agree with what you say, you cant put the Transmutation set in line with other sets, unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp...

also pirate skeleton requires nothing of the player for it to proc but wearing it.

if you're stunned for exemple you cant purge to make the steadfast proc. (unless breaking free is also considered as a purge and make steadfast proc, i should have a look at it. if it is occuring on breakfree it'll only buff yourself tho, not any other ally).

about wizard's ripost, it is working like PS (nothing to do but wrearing it) but it puts a minor debuff that can be purged. also proc on crit, and unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp... oh, did i say that already?
(crit is something to care about but for no-CP situations with many proc dmg proc set with 0% crit i dont think we can argue based on crit.)

my personnal thought is that it is way to easy to proc and have a too high uptime compared to its efficiency (assuming 30% dmg reduction is roughly equal to 19800 armor).

something could be done on one side, the other side, or both.

the issue isnt as straight forward as dropping the uptime. mostly because the tanks that are abusing the set are really propped up by block mitigation and dropping the uptime will ruin the set for builds that are trying to build offensively against the tank meta by using more efficient sources for defense to protect against bleeds or classes that don't have a viable pvp defensive option anymore (templars loss of major protection for example).

What will happen is more people will realize that snb block is the real mitigation and move towards that option shutting down diversity further and not really solving the tank meta.

What they could do is stop the set from procing when blocking and move the priority of the set against vulnerability to the front and add a monster set that grants major vuln somehow.

And whatever they decide, they need to stop polymorphs/costumes from hiding the set. Imagine if we could hid things like blade cloak/shuffle major evasion animations; its really dumb lol.

AMeanOne

I'm all for them removing the ability to hide it with a costume once they fix the transformation bugs on it.

Jaxaxo

kalunte wrote: »

@Minno

As i essentially agree with what you say, you cant put the Transmutation set in line with other sets, unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp...

also pirate skeleton requires nothing of the player for it to proc but wearing it.

if you're stunned for exemple you cant purge to make the steadfast proc. (unless breaking free is also considered as a purge and make steadfast proc, i should have a look at it. if it is occuring on breakfree it'll only buff yourself tho, not any other ally).

about wizard's ripost, it is working like PS (nothing to do but wrearing it) but it puts a minor debuff that can be purged. also proc on crit, and unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp... oh, did i say that already?
(crit is something to care about but for no-CP situations with many proc dmg proc set with 0% crit i dont think we can argue based on crit.)

my personnal thought is that it is way to easy to proc and have a too high uptime compared to its efficiency (assuming 30% dmg reduction is roughly equal to 19800 armor).

something could be done on one side, the other side, or both.

30% reduction = 19800 resistances, tho u shouldnt forget that 30% reduction applies after resistances and is multiplicative with other mitigation sources. So it's worth less than ~20k armor, depends on setup. And it applies debuff, 15% less healing, which cant be purged. So if u're comparing it to other defensive sets at least do it properly.
It's just to clear things, cuz im totally aware that it's strongly overperforming as defensive set and should be somehow nerfed

Waffennacht

If anything the value of major protection has increased. I wouldn't blame Pirate specifically for this

maxjapank

Waffennacht wrote: »

If anything the value of major protection has increased. I wouldn't blame Pirate specifically for this

I agree. And I find it silly that players are complaining about this set. When the defile was purgable and when it proc’d with shields, it was properly nerfed. But no one has complained about this set in nearly 2 years. I may be wrong about how long, but it’s been a long, long time.

Comparing it to 5p sets is silly, too. Monster helms are unique and offer something special. Balorgh gives up to 1000 weapon and spell dmg which is more than any 5p set gives. Engine guardian procs constantly giving you insane resources back. Blood spawn gives incredible mitigation along with tons of Ulti. Domihaus gives 2 bonuses from a 5p set in just one piece. Troll king gives incredible health regen to everyone and there is no 5p set that even gives that.

To be honest, some Monster sets could use a buff. Let there be more choices. Let there be more flavor.

ccmedaddy

exeeter702 wrote: »

... Engine guardian procs constantly giving you insane resources back.

Speaking of crutches..

kalunte

@Jaxaxo

yes, and major prot applies to bleed too, while armor does not, this as never been mentionned as an unbeatable but only to give ppl an idea of its potential. in fact, it is even stronger than a simple armor buff, because armor has a hard cap and major prot goes stack upon it. but same goes for other mitigation tools that are not armor, and i'm not into furnishing every single detail. i dont know them all anyway.


the most annoying thing too me is how powerfull it is compared to major vitality for exemple, when getting hitten. i mean, it is cool to be able to outheal incoming dmg, but first of all you need the time to do so. also lower the chance for you to get in execute range and so on.

the same comparison could be done with burst heals and shields, while one only bring you back to full life (or tries to) the other virtually boosts your max healthpool if already full hp or gives you time to restore hp through other source.


@Minno

i'm not fully awared of block mitigation and how the maths are done around it and i believe you're in the right, but at least block is something you have to actively do, you need stam to use and not be controled. also the permablock does not allow light attacks (excluding lag issues).


ps: it feels really nice to have a real discussion on a forum thanks you all

Adenoma

@ccmedaddy , low key engine guardian still great. I’ve been running permablock necro with it. Health proc? Infinite purge and sustain for blocking. Boom, now fury and seventh is charged so hit back.

My only sad point is I can’t repent/necrotic potency the bodies anymore.

Savos_Saren

I contemplated using Pirate Skeleton on a MagCro. Basically, replace Beckoning Armor with Resistant Flesh. That way, you get a higher amount of base resistances (from PS) and then Major Protection from the PS proc.

If your health begins to dip- you can use Resistant Flesh for a burst heal and resistances buff. The Minor Maim from PS would be negligible- considering that Resistant Flesh causes minor maim, anyway. And if anyone's wondering: no, you can't purge the minor maim from PS.

leepalmer95

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I contemplated using Pirate Skeleton on a MagCro. Basically, replace Beckoning Armor with Resistant Flesh. That way, you get a higher amount of base resistances (from PS) and then Major Protection from the PS proc.

If your health begins to dip- you can use Resistant Flesh for a burst heal and resistances buff. The Minor Maim from PS would be negligible- considering that Resistant Flesh causes minor maim, anyway. And if anyone's wondering: no, you can't purge the minor maim from PS.

Nah always keep your major armour buff skill up.

Solariken

Minno wrote: »

waiting on the updated defense mitigation thread to be updated before giving my opinion again. Spoiler though, minor mitigation buffs when stacked with major versions are bugged and causing more dmg to be received than intended under the new equation.

@Minno I would love more info on this if you get a minute - are you saying that you take more damage than not using the buffs? Or just the normal diminishing returns you see when stacking mitigation? Tag me back por favor.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

waiting on the updated defense mitigation thread to be updated before giving my opinion again. Spoiler though, minor mitigation buffs when stacked with major versions are bugged and causing more dmg to be received than intended under the new equation.

@Minno I would love more info on this if you get a minute - are you saying that you take more damage than not using the buffs? Or just the normal diminishing returns you see when stacking mitigation? Tag me back por favor.

No just a weird bug related to the new way vulnerability is subtracting against your % based mitigation.

The other part of your questions wants to ask its relationship with the new vulnerability changes. For example, with steadfast, 19662 armor, basic 20/10 CP allocation, and 3300 crit resistance against a 15k tooltip and 1.9 crit modifer with minor vulnerability:
CRIT(1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(8-30)/100) = 21220 * 0.78 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21220 * (0.78)*(.73)*(.91)*(0.50)*(0.8536) = 4692

Now lets see what happens when there is no vulnerability:
CRIT(1.415 MOD):
15000 *(1-(0)/100)*(1.5+(10/100)+(20/100)+(10/100)-(3300/68/100)) * (1+(0-30)/100) = 21220 * 0.70 (SPILLOVER FROM VUL/MIT)
21220 * (0.70)*(.73)*(.91)*(0.50)*(0.8536) = 4,211

A total dmg increase of 10%, not the 8% tooltip of minor vuln. We cannot test minor/major protection accurately because its bugged and not working with this new formula even though the rest of dmg mitgation tested does (mist form, just using major or minor buffs without stacking them, etc.)

Heres the spreadsheet thus far from Paul:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cpb_ee_Rh3AEZb6mvpUS6487S5sUMYwV7xcdtDVk__c/edit#gid=0

pieratsos

Minno wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

@Minno

As i essentially agree with what you say, you cant put the Transmutation set in line with other sets, unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp...

also pirate skeleton requires nothing of the player for it to proc but wearing it.

if you're stunned for exemple you cant purge to make the steadfast proc. (unless breaking free is also considered as a purge and make steadfast proc, i should have a look at it. if it is occuring on breakfree it'll only buff yourself tho, not any other ally).

about wizard's ripost, it is working like PS (nothing to do but wrearing it) but it puts a minor debuff that can be purged. also proc on crit, and unless everyone as now 100% crit in pvp... oh, did i say that already?
(crit is something to care about but for no-CP situations with many proc dmg proc set with 0% crit i dont think we can argue based on crit.)

my personnal thought is that it is way to easy to proc and have a too high uptime compared to its efficiency (assuming 30% dmg reduction is roughly equal to 19800 armor).

something could be done on one side, the other side, or both.

the issue isnt as straight forward as dropping the uptime. mostly because the tanks that are abusing the set are really propped up by block mitigation and dropping the uptime will ruin the set for builds that are trying to build offensively against the tank meta by using more efficient sources for defense to protect against bleeds or classes that don't have a viable pvp defensive option anymore (templars loss of major protection for example).

What will happen is more people will realize that snb block is the real mitigation and move towards that option shutting down diversity further and not really solving the tank meta.

What they could do is stop the set from procing when blocking and move the priority of the set against vulnerability to the front and add a monster set that grants major vuln somehow.

And whatever they decide, they need to stop polymorphs/costumes from hiding the set. Imagine if we could hid things like blade cloak/shuffle major evasion animations; its really dumb lol.

Are you serious? The solution to powerful defensive sets is to add a major vuln set? Can you comprehend that one of the reasons the game is a **** show is because of all those stupid OP sets?