Account wide Achievements

TheShadowScout · June 2019

No

Edziu wrote: »

its is giving me possibility to have completed them all

Exactly.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and maybe stroke someones ego when they get them all and can claim to have "finished the game", to move on to the next... which is not exactly something ZOS might enjoy, hmmm?

...and how would it be in ZOS best interests to just... let you?
When the achievements mean so little that few would bother paying for them as for skyshards? Which I reckon very few of those who spent years crying for account-wide skyshards will pay for, showing ZOS exactly what the score on this ideas realyl is...

Edziu wrote: »

I would have no problem with even repeat literally full content, maps, quests etc on other char to have map completed on 100% if I had my achieves account wide which I have done, not my character...

I say again:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

YOU didn't.
The characters under cour control did.
I mean... who earned all that gold, you or your -character-?
I mean... who is the "mass murderer", you or your -character-?
I mean... who learned all the crafting styles, you or your -character-?
I mean... who has that title floating above their head, you or your -character-?
I mean... whose head is saddled with a huge bounty, yours or your -characters-?

All the achievements ONLY exist in the game world and show what you have done with THAT specific character!
YOU did not visit any of those places - how could you, Tamriel is not a real place you can go to.
Your character on the other hand is as virtual as tamriel, and if you direct them there, your character visits those places.
And if you then make a new alt, that one has not yet visited those places.
Or killed those monsters, done those quests, did that crafting, earned that gold fencing loot, gained that title, whatever.

That is the very point of a RolePlayingGame!

Yeah, I can see how many, many people will want to see it as "gamerscore" instead of character achievements...
...because that is what they are used from in some other games. But those other games are not ESO, and here it IS character achievements.
...or because they are lazy and don't feel they should be bothered to do it all again, yet still want to rock titles on their newly made alts or brag about the size of their achievement list or something. And those of us who DO come from the RPG side and see it as -character- achievements object each and every time.

But once again, the achievements themselves don't really -do- anything, except unlocking dyes, stuff and titles... where the dyes and stuff is already account wide, and the titles definitely never should be. Want one on your new alt? Do the thing to get it on your new alt. Put in the effort.

And actually character achievements are quite useful, since many of those also have something else attached to them. Like landmarks, that also give exploiration XP, and the achievement journal can be used to check if you got them all or missed one on your new alt. Or shyshards, again you can check which one you still have to grab on your new alt (unless you like paying for 'em) Or crafting motiv pages.

Though I reckon next the "gimme crowd" will make a case for getting all the exploration expees account wide as well...
...and if they ever sway ZOS, it might even come. As... you guessed it... crown store convenience item! Map unlock, pay for each zone you are too lazy to walk through with your character...

Comixfan wrote: »

I've no real desire to do all that content again on alts that haven't done it.

Then don't.
And do without those achievements on those alts.
Its -really- that simple.

Just like you can say you don't want to do the TG or DB grind again on this or that alt, and then do without that skill line. Or Psijic, or Undaunted, or Alliance rank, or whatever.

Not that I expect the gimme crown won't go and ask for that account wide too sometime...

Comixfan wrote: »

All toons on an account should be able to contribute to achievements and then the achievements are unlocked for the account.

...which is like saying just because the dunmer assassin did something, somehow the breton mage who never did it shouzld have it marked as "done" anyhow?
Next you will be wanting all the quest completion expees from your main dropped on your alt at tutorial, right???
I mean... same thing, really?
At least according to your logic, huh?
(And yes, I am aware we get something like that with the champion system anyhow. Which most other games do not do. Should you not be grateful to ZOS, instead of asking for yet more?)

Comixfan wrote: »

ZOS definitely do some weird things with this MMO. Not just the achievements, but I've also always found it odd that the mount stuff isn't account-wide either.

The mount stuff is account wide.
The riding training is not.
Just like your character levels and skills are not account wide.
What's so hard to understand?
(and yes, its to make you break down and buy the riding lessons in the crown store - the option for those with more money then patience!)

jainiadral · June 2019

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

@kargen27
May I ask why you are against Account wide Titles? I mean if I did the content and got the title I do not see any reason why my Alts can not have it? Why should I have to GRIND out the title for each character? It just seems redundant. I don't see where it would hurt anyone or cause any game breaking issues.

First I think account wide titles are bad for the long term health of the game. MMO's survive by new content being released and old content being repeated. The grind leads to content being repeated. I think if we could just assign any title we have earned to any character we want it would lead to the game getting dull much sooner. You might not think so but the bells and whistles attached to the grind is what keeps us playing. That is how most of us are hardwired.

Personally it is rare I notice another characters title but I feel a character should earn titles. Some people argue that it was them and not the character that earned the title. I believe it is a joint effort between you and your character. The character couldn't earn the title without you but the reverse is also true.

I take it so far with mine that each character has their own home and are not allowed to put achievement furniture inside that they have not earned. I don't expect that of others of course but I still think titles should be character bound.

And I am really against shared achievements counting towards a larger achievement. As an example if you have crafting spread across three players so that combined they would have enough done to be a master crafter that doesn't mean you should get a master crafter achievement. One character has to get all those earlier accomplishments.

This is a weird comment. People run content again because it's inherently enjoyable or the rewards gated behind it are things they want/need to repeat the content they enjoy.

I rerun story constantly in games with account-wide achievements (SWTOR, GW2) and without (ESO, SWL) because I enjoy the stories. Last night, I started Cadwell's silver for the second time on my Argonian because I wanted to finally see how the DC storyline flowed in the right order. In the process, I unlocked a bunch of new achievements on her.

Yay, right?

Nah. I shrugged and played on.

TBH, I find per-toon achievements and awards to be a little demoralizing. SWL is worse in that cosmetic rewards aren't shared, unlike here. It makes the game feel extremely alt-hostile-- if not straight up player-hostile.

Tandor · June 2019

No

The question is not whether an account listing can be accessed showing all the achievements earned across the account and by which character, the question is whether each character should benefit from the rewards earned by other characters on the account. Most players, myself included, have no problem with the idea of an account listing provided it doesn't then mean that one character completing an achievement unlocks it and its reward for other characters. Such a listing would still enable those who want to complete all the achievements but not necessarily on one character, or those who wish to play an alt but feel that the alt's progression is contributing to the player's own progress with his other characters to do so. It doesn't follow, however, that all the account's characters should then benefit from those achievements as if they had themselves earned them.

The difference of opinion on this is basically between those who believe that they have earned an achievement as players rather than through their characters, and those who regard a RPG as being about different characters each having their own identity and development. Like @Comixfan above, I have different characters doing different content, including an assassin who does Thieves Guild content, and I also have another character who is a holy-paladin type templar who has nothing to do with the Thieves Guild, but unlike him I don't want my templar to share the Thieves Guild achievements with my assassin. Such an arrangement would completely negate the point of having different characters approaching the content differently.

It's precisely because ZOS recognise that some players want things to be account-wide while others want them to be character-specific that they have produced a compromise which strikes a fair balance between the two perspectives, with some things account-wide like dye unlocks and champion points, and other things character-specific like most achievements.

I'm as keen to have everything made character-specific as some are to have everything made account-wide, but I respect the compromise that has been made under the present arrangements and see no reason to shift it one way or the other. Be in no doubt, however, that if it does shift towards more things being account-wide that will be offered through the Crown Store as was the case with skyshards, and pretty much nobody wanted that.

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

its is giving me possibility to have completed them all

Exactly.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and maybe stroke someones ego when they get them all and can claim to have "finished the game", to move on to the next... which is not exactly something ZOS might enjoy, hmmm?

...and how would it be in ZOS best interests to just... let you?
When the achievements mean so little that few would bother paying for them as for skyshards? Which I reckon very few of those who spent years crying for account-wide skyshards will pay for, showing ZOS exactly what the score on this ideas realyl is...

Edziu wrote: »

I would have no problem with even repeat literally full content, maps, quests etc on other char to have map completed on 100% if I had my achieves account wide which I have done, not my character...

I say again:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

YOU didn't.
The characters under cour control did.
I mean... who earned all that gold, you or your -character-?
I mean... who is the "mass murderer", you or your -character-?
I mean... who learned all the crafting styles, you or your -character-?
I mean... who has that title floating above their head, you or your -character-?
I mean... whose head is saddled with a huge bounty, yours or your -characters-?

All the achievements ONLY exist in the game world and show what you have done with THAT specific character!
YOU did not visit any of those places - how could you, Tamriel is not a real place you can go to.
Your character on the other hand is as virtual as tamriel, and if you direct them there, your character visits those places.
And if you then make a new alt, that one has not yet visited those places.
Or killed those monsters, done those quests, did that crafting, earned that gold fencing loot, gained that title, whatever.

That is the very point of a RolePlayingGame!

Yeah, I can see how many, many people will want to see it as "gamerscore" instead of character achievements...
...because that is what they are used from in some other games. But those other games are not ESO, and here it IS character achievements.
...or because they are lazy and don't feel they should be bothered to do it all again, yet still want to rock titles on their newly made alts or brag about the size of their achievement list or something. And those of us who DO come from the RPG side and see it as -character- achievements object each and every time.

But once again, the achievements themselves don't really -do- anything, except unlocking dyes, stuff and titles... where the dyes and stuff is already account wide, and the titles definitely never should be. Want one on your new alt? Do the thing to get it on your new alt. Put in the effort.

And actually character achievements are quite useful, since many of those also have something else attached to them. Like landmarks, that also give exploiration XP, and the achievement journal can be used to check if you got them all or missed one on your new alt. Or shyshards, again you can check which one you still have to grab on your new alt (unless you like paying for 'em) Or crafting motiv pages.

Though I reckon next the "gimme crowd" will make a case for getting all the exploration expees account wide as well...
...and if they ever sway ZOS, it might even come. As... you guessed it... crown store convenience item! Map unlock, pay for each zone you are too lazy to walk through with your character...

Comixfan wrote: »

I've no real desire to do all that content again on alts that haven't done it.

Then don't.
And do without those achievements on those alts.
Its -really- that simple.

Just like you can say you don't want to do the TG or DB grind again on this or that alt, and then do without that skill line. Or Psijic, or Undaunted, or Alliance rank, or whatever.

Not that I expect the gimme crown won't go and ask for that account wide too sometime...

Comixfan wrote: »

All toons on an account should be able to contribute to achievements and then the achievements are unlocked for the account.

...which is like saying just because the dunmer assassin did something, somehow the breton mage who never did it shouzld have it marked as "done" anyhow?
Next you will be wanting all the quest completion expees from your main dropped on your alt at tutorial, right???
I mean... same thing, really?
At least according to your logic, huh?
(And yes, I am aware we get something like that with the champion system anyhow. Which most other games do not do. Should you not be grateful to ZOS, instead of asking for yet more?)

Comixfan wrote: »

ZOS definitely do some weird things with this MMO. Not just the achievements, but I've also always found it odd that the mount stuff isn't account-wide either.

The mount stuff is account wide.
The riding training is not.
Just like your character levels and skills are not account wide.
What's so hard to understand?
(and yes, its to make you break down and buy the riding lessons in the crown store - the option for those with more money then patience!)

and yet while my character is gaing all of this under my control...this will never get this without me...
and to your quote with who have done things..you or your character...my character wont exist without me so there wont be any completions on cjaracter without player

and if something hurst for your immersion..then what about every my char looks literally same? even have same outfit? that much I would want single character but with option to choose class whenver I want without losing achievs which I is now and achievs which I have already done on character which I stopped playing jsut doesnt count to anything other now....so I dont have point with gaing more especially on alts

and to your knowledge as how this system is now if I had option I woudl turn off ability to get any achiev on my alts...just to show how I dont care about those on my alts as I dont even want get those again once I have got on my main which mean nothing now since I stopped playing this char

TheShadowScout · June 2019

No

Edziu wrote: »

and yet while my character is gaing all of this under my control...this will never get this without me...

...and you will never get any of those achievements without your character.
Your point being?

Edziu wrote: »

and to your quote with who have done things..you or your character...

Well?
Is that title floating over YOUR head, or over your characters noggin?
Do YOU have a pile of gold lying around at home, or is that just your character?
Is the police breaking down YOUR door for mass murders, or is only your character the one with the bounty?
Do YOU know how to pick up a hammer and forge a nicely tempered sword in breton style, or is that your character?

Edziu wrote: »

and if something hurst for your immersion..then what about every my char looks literally same? even have same outfit?

...are you SURE you want to play ESO, and not "Star Wars - Attack of the Clones"???

Yeah, I know some people want to do it like that. Want the game to treat every one of their characters like they are the same individual. Despite them using a warrior setup on this and a caster setup on that variation...

But that's not how this works. That's not how ESO is set up from the first place. The inability to use the same name twice should have been a hint...

Sylvermynx · June 2019

No

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

and yet while my character is gaing all of this under my control...this will never get this without me...

...and you will never get any of those achievements without your character.
Your point being?

Edziu wrote: »

and to your quote with who have done things..you or your character...

Well?
Is that title floating over YOUR head, or over your characters noggin?
Do YOU have a pile of gold lying around at home, or is that just your character?
Is the police breaking down YOUR door for mass murders, or is only your character the one with the bounty?
Do YOU know how to pick up a hammer and forge a nicely tempered sword in breton style, or is that your character?

Edziu wrote: »

and if something hurst for your immersion..then what about every my char looks literally same? even have same outfit?

...are you SURE you want to play ESO, and not "Star Wars - Attack of the Clones"???

Yeah, I know some people want to do it like that. Want the game to treat every one of their characters like they are the same individual. Despite them using a warrior setup on this and a caster setup on that variation...

But that's not how this works. That's not how ESO is set up from the first place. The inability to use the same name twice should have been a hint...

Exactly. None of my toons look exactly alike. They may have some features in concert, but they all have different clothing/armor, use different mounts/pets, and act according to their natures - which are NOT the same by any means.

Each of my characters has a backstory. Each of them has an ongoing reason for being in this game world. Yes.... I am that bad word in games today: I am a role-player. I don't actively roleplay in game, as that can affect everything from failing to realize that my girl is about to die (because I'm in some other space in my head) or turning down a really good piece of armor (major upgrade) because it's "not the right thing" for whoever.

RP goes on in my head on each in game persona. Sometimes it's a little difficult to keep track of the game.... Then again, a death due to my inability to keep track can't really be attributed to a given toon!

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

@TheShadowScout so I will ask you for 1 question
so for what are achievs here?
as then its nearly impossible to get them all and most people as achiev hunters are playing this to get them all....they are just stuck into single character instead of playing with possible to this 15+ other character which is making less fun of playing this game on single character

sorry but as this is nearly impossible to get all acheivements then what is point of this? and empty expectation without sense jsut to lure some playere here so they can find out later this was blank bait on them destroying their hopes for their playstyle here after all?
this is how I see it especially with your arguments

when Im fan of TES, ESO is my biggest dissapoitment..not that much from devs fault itself..but more from louder rp/casual community here which dont want literally anything new here even as QoL to jsut other players not affecting them but this still will affect their immersion, logic

even toxic community which I have many of them is more logical than most of rp/casual community in just this game (no offense :v)

with toxic community we still can elaborate some change which could be very helpfull while rp/casul community which I have meet on those forums...no just no, this is like talking to wall because their immerions is most important even if something doesnt concers to them but to rest of game.....their immersion loic is loud enough to be impenetrable armored wall again any changes for or just QoL to game, or simply healthy change to this for rest playerbase which is not around only rp

TheShadowScout · June 2019

No

Edziu wrote: »

so for what are achievs here?

To keep tack of what your character has already done, aka "achieved" or has yet to do.
Like I hinted at, its nice to keep track of which exploration you might have missed on that warden alt, what style page you still need to search for in the guild store for your crafter, which skyshard you forgot on your new necromancer, etc.

Well, and to unlock those sweet colors, but those are cosmetic and thus account wide anyhow, noone cares which alt unlocks what, just that you can color your main the way you like them. And a couple other things like memetos or costumes.
But those are all "one and done" - you unlock them once, then never need to bother about hunting monsters for the kill count of those trophy drops ever again (unless you feel really, really bored someday)

And maybe to gain titles for E-peen purposes, to act all high and mighty when your main rocks some title that the lowly peons have trouble chasing down. For those who think they need that sort of thing.

But really, achievements don't -DO- anything but those. Even those things that come with something like exploration XP or skyshard SP don't come from the achievement, but from the thing that the achievement keeps track of...

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

so for what are achievs here?

To keep tack of what your character has already done, aka "achieved" or has yet to do.
Like I hinted at, its nice to keep track of which exploration you might have missed on that warden alt, what style page you still need to search for in the guild store for your crafter, which skyshard you forgot on your new necromancer, etc.

Well, and to unlock those sweet colors, but those are cosmetic and thus account wide anyhow, noone cares which alt unlocks what, just that you can color your main the way you like them. And a couple other things like memetos or costumes.
But those are all "one and done" - you unlock them once, then never need to bother about hunting monsters for the kill count of those trophy drops ever again (unless you feel really, really bored someday)

And maybe to gain titles for E-peen purposes, to act all high and mighty when your main rocks some title that the lowly peons have trouble chasing down. For those who think they need that sort of thing.

But really, achievements don't -DO- anything but those. Even those things that come with something like exploration XP or skyshard SP don't come from the achievement, but from the thing that the achievement keeps track of...

so for many if not most....these achievs are in reality irreveland as most players dont care about anything like this on their alts.

as I said...I care that much about any achiev on my alts so if I had an option I woudl jsut turn of that *** to not bleed in my eyes and so this system is flawled them as people dont look at this system like you explained this but many look at this from side of completionsists to have done everything possible to do but so it is impossible to do this on more than singel character...

tbh in this game is that many to do for this - for completionists, to have everything everything so for single character it is taking years of grinding, hardgrinding so it is impossibel to do on more than 1 character..and problem have started with class lock on character as it is not going to be fun to play single class for that many years

and btw about achievs...so I also dont see any sense of acheivement for trophy collections..really..for what are those? I would see point of this if we actally get something from this mroe than just worth less than junk item from mobs an trophy..this isnt even option to place this as decoration trophy in you house....this is jsut worth 31 gold junk called trophy idk for what...jsut for achiev which seems to be for nothing at all them, just useless thing for anyone other than this completionist player

Cpt_Teemo · June 2019

Yes

All patterns, motifs and recipes should also be account wide don't see the need to use them on every character if you already earned it, so once earned it should stay earned on the account

AlnilamE · June 2019

No

I would be fine with an achievement overview that lets you see all the achievements you have obtained on your account, while preserving the characters' individual achievement tracking.

Rampeal wrote: »

It will ruin the game and make it where you would not want to make another character. - False if anything it would promote growth of the game and encourage players to make more toons.

You can only speak for yourself there.

For me, the achievements are a part of a characters' progression. Now, some characters work harder on achievements than others. But having characters that need certain achievement encourages me to play them.

ESO was designed with character-based achievements. Some games (like BDO, for example) are designed with account-based achievements. But that includes achievements that force you to play ALL classes if you want to get them all.

idk · June 2019

Yes

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

All patterns, motifs and recipes should also be account wide don't see the need to use them on every character if you already earned it, so once earned it should stay earned on the account

Achievements being account wide and crafting account wide are two different things.

kargen27 · June 2019

No

Edziu wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

its is giving me possibility to have completed them all

Exactly.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and maybe stroke someones ego when they get them all and can claim to have "finished the game", to move on to the next... which is not exactly something ZOS might enjoy, hmmm?

...and how would it be in ZOS best interests to just... let you?
When the achievements mean so little that few would bother paying for them as for skyshards? Which I reckon very few of those who spent years crying for account-wide skyshards will pay for, showing ZOS exactly what the score on this ideas realyl is...

Edziu wrote: »

I would have no problem with even repeat literally full content, maps, quests etc on other char to have map completed on 100% if I had my achieves account wide which I have done, not my character...

I say again:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

YOU didn't.
The characters under cour control did.
I mean... who earned all that gold, you or your -character-?
I mean... who is the "mass murderer", you or your -character-?
I mean... who learned all the crafting styles, you or your -character-?
I mean... who has that title floating above their head, you or your -character-?
I mean... whose head is saddled with a huge bounty, yours or your -characters-?

All the achievements ONLY exist in the game world and show what you have done with THAT specific character!
YOU did not visit any of those places - how could you, Tamriel is not a real place you can go to.
Your character on the other hand is as virtual as tamriel, and if you direct them there, your character visits those places.
And if you then make a new alt, that one has not yet visited those places.
Or killed those monsters, done those quests, did that crafting, earned that gold fencing loot, gained that title, whatever.

That is the very point of a RolePlayingGame!

Yeah, I can see how many, many people will want to see it as "gamerscore" instead of character achievements...
...because that is what they are used from in some other games. But those other games are not ESO, and here it IS character achievements.
...or because they are lazy and don't feel they should be bothered to do it all again, yet still want to rock titles on their newly made alts or brag about the size of their achievement list or something. And those of us who DO come from the RPG side and see it as -character- achievements object each and every time.

But once again, the achievements themselves don't really -do- anything, except unlocking dyes, stuff and titles... where the dyes and stuff is already account wide, and the titles definitely never should be. Want one on your new alt? Do the thing to get it on your new alt. Put in the effort.

And actually character achievements are quite useful, since many of those also have something else attached to them. Like landmarks, that also give exploiration XP, and the achievement journal can be used to check if you got them all or missed one on your new alt. Or shyshards, again you can check which one you still have to grab on your new alt (unless you like paying for 'em) Or crafting motiv pages.

Though I reckon next the "gimme crowd" will make a case for getting all the exploration expees account wide as well...
...and if they ever sway ZOS, it might even come. As... you guessed it... crown store convenience item! Map unlock, pay for each zone you are too lazy to walk through with your character...

Comixfan wrote: »

I've no real desire to do all that content again on alts that haven't done it.

Then don't.
And do without those achievements on those alts.
Its -really- that simple.

Just like you can say you don't want to do the TG or DB grind again on this or that alt, and then do without that skill line. Or Psijic, or Undaunted, or Alliance rank, or whatever.

Not that I expect the gimme crown won't go and ask for that account wide too sometime...

Comixfan wrote: »

All toons on an account should be able to contribute to achievements and then the achievements are unlocked for the account.

...which is like saying just because the dunmer assassin did something, somehow the breton mage who never did it shouzld have it marked as "done" anyhow?
Next you will be wanting all the quest completion expees from your main dropped on your alt at tutorial, right???
I mean... same thing, really?
At least according to your logic, huh?
(And yes, I am aware we get something like that with the champion system anyhow. Which most other games do not do. Should you not be grateful to ZOS, instead of asking for yet more?)

Comixfan wrote: »

ZOS definitely do some weird things with this MMO. Not just the achievements, but I've also always found it odd that the mount stuff isn't account-wide either.

The mount stuff is account wide.
The riding training is not.
Just like your character levels and skills are not account wide.
What's so hard to understand?
(and yes, its to make you break down and buy the riding lessons in the crown store - the option for those with more money then patience!)

and yet while my character is gaing all of this under my control...this will never get this without me...
and to your quote with who have done things..you or your character...my character wont exist without me so there wont be any completions on cjaracter without player

and if something hurst for your immersion..then what about every my char looks literally same? even have same outfit? that much I would want single character but with option to choose class whenver I want without losing achievs which I is now and achievs which I have already done on character which I stopped playing jsut doesnt count to anything other now....so I dont have point with gaing more especially on alts

and to your knowledge as how this system is now if I had option I woudl turn off ability to get any achiev on my alts...just to show how I dont care about those on my alts as I dont even want get those again once I have got on my main which mean nothing now since I stopped playing this char

And there would be no achievements for you if it were not for your character. It is a shared effort between you and your character.

idk · June 2019

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rampeal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

MMO's in part survive on the content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away from that. We say we hate having to do all that fun stuff again but truth be told it is what keeps many of us playing. If we could just hop on a new character and it is pretty much ready to go with little game play we would quickly find little reason to log in.

Endgame is what keeps MMO alive. You can repeat content all day, but it is the Endgame that keeps people around. Majority of ESO players Burn through the content and gear up a person so they can do Endgame Trials and PvP. Doing the same repetition of quest on different characters is what will drive people away.

End game is part of it. But that is still repeating content. PvP is unique as players changing strategies can help keep that fresh. For PvE repeating content and new content are needed. That is why the RNG system is what it is and why good armor for PvP can be found in PvE content and some good PvE skills are found only in PvP. It is healthy for the game if players do a variety of content and repeat it.

I would also argue with your majority of players burn through the content so they can do endgame. I'm not sure the majority of players have any real interest in end game content. I do know people that will grind like their life depended on it to get a new character to max level then grind for the needed gear with PvP and vet trials in mind. I also know people that only care about the stories and do those over and over. Most players are somewhere in the middle. They aren't going to do all the quests but they aren't going to hit the grind spots either.
Those middle ground players repeating content is what keeps the game alive and fluid. There would be less incentive to do some of the content on new characters if achievements were account wide. Human nature, we like the bells and whistles.

What is interesting is none of this has anything to do with a reason why there should not be account wide achievements. Not a single word of it addresses that.

I will agree it went off on a tangent but if you follow the entire string leading to that response you will see it does have to do with achievements and why they should be character bound. It is all about repeated content being good for the long term health of the game.

Funny how in a game that had account wide achievements I still repeated content. While I have looked at my achievements score and sometimes what a new achievement I did not expect was about I, like many do not look to achievements for reasons to play the game. It is very much a secondary aspect.

The argument is false for the main reason most do not play to rack up achievements. Even those who clear vet HM trials are more interesting in enjoying the game with those they play with an getting good scores. Some do for no death speed run achievements but they would be repeating the content regardless to get the better scores.

Further, having account side achievements does nothing to take away from the group of players who are driven to play the game for achievements as it does not take away character based achievements.

It literally does not hurt anyone.

What is true for you isn't true for all. Some people do repeat content to get achievements on more than one character. Others run the same trial over and over for gear. Others have their own reasons for repeating content. Repeating content is good for the health of the game so it makes good sense for their to be several options for doing so.

Again if it were just about viewing account wide achievements I am fine with that. When it comes to sharing titles and most other stuff no. Those need to be earned on individual characters.

For starters, nothing stops them from doing so and many are probably most that are doing it is because there is not account wide achievements and as you have pointed out, many repeat content for reasons other than achievements.

Clearly it is not bad for the game to have account wide achievements. While WoW is not my cup of tea it is hard to argue it has had a success that casts a shadow across the realm of MMORPGs and somehow it has had all that success with account wide achievements. That not only douses any argument against it here in ESO but puts those arguments into a chilly grave.

CleymenZero · June 2019

Yes

barney2525 wrote: »

I dislike positions based on half truths.

There is No game that gives ALL the achievements of a single character to ALL other characters - ie. to the Account.

Some games give Some specific achievements to the account, but that is not what you are asking. And you are also, very conveniently, not giving Any actual examples of the achievements other games give.

Equating Costumes and mounts with Achievements is also not an honest comparison. What your mount "looks like" is a cosmetic and many can simply be bought with cash- depending on the time of year and the event in progress. So BUYING something cosmetic for the Account has nothing to do with "Earning" anything.

Master Crafter requires level 50 in all crafting. Explain to me how you are going to Give that achievement to ALL my characters when they do NOT have the level 50's required.

And this is the crux of the entire argument against. The new character does NOT have Any of the requirements that are needed for that Achievement. Does not matter which Achievement you are talking about. Achievements are specific to the Character. They are what makes each character Unique.

You put the time in on ONE character. That character has most of the Achievements. Your other characters have Not had the time put in.

Achievements are for the CHARACTER.

And you can't receive an Achievement if you Don't earn it.

There are specific ACCOUNT rewards for the first time a character hits specific Achievements. Dyes, non-combat pets, costumes, etc. Those are for the Account.

A Character does Not deserve an "Achievement" that the Character did not earn.

IMHO

I'm in favor of achievement points being cumulative on the whole account but titles no. Have Immortal Redeemer on a lvl 7 nord magicka nightblade toon that was just created would be stupid.

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

its is giving me possibility to have completed them all

Exactly.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and maybe stroke someones ego when they get them all and can claim to have "finished the game", to move on to the next... which is not exactly something ZOS might enjoy, hmmm?

...and how would it be in ZOS best interests to just... let you?
When the achievements mean so little that few would bother paying for them as for skyshards? Which I reckon very few of those who spent years crying for account-wide skyshards will pay for, showing ZOS exactly what the score on this ideas realyl is...

Edziu wrote: »

I would have no problem with even repeat literally full content, maps, quests etc on other char to have map completed on 100% if I had my achieves account wide which I have done, not my character...

I say again:

TheShadowScout wrote: »

YOU didn't.
The characters under cour control did.
I mean... who earned all that gold, you or your -character-?
I mean... who is the "mass murderer", you or your -character-?
I mean... who learned all the crafting styles, you or your -character-?
I mean... who has that title floating above their head, you or your -character-?
I mean... whose head is saddled with a huge bounty, yours or your -characters-?

All the achievements ONLY exist in the game world and show what you have done with THAT specific character!
YOU did not visit any of those places - how could you, Tamriel is not a real place you can go to.
Your character on the other hand is as virtual as tamriel, and if you direct them there, your character visits those places.
And if you then make a new alt, that one has not yet visited those places.
Or killed those monsters, done those quests, did that crafting, earned that gold fencing loot, gained that title, whatever.

That is the very point of a RolePlayingGame!

Yeah, I can see how many, many people will want to see it as "gamerscore" instead of character achievements...
...because that is what they are used from in some other games. But those other games are not ESO, and here it IS character achievements.
...or because they are lazy and don't feel they should be bothered to do it all again, yet still want to rock titles on their newly made alts or brag about the size of their achievement list or something. And those of us who DO come from the RPG side and see it as -character- achievements object each and every time.

But once again, the achievements themselves don't really -do- anything, except unlocking dyes, stuff and titles... where the dyes and stuff is already account wide, and the titles definitely never should be. Want one on your new alt? Do the thing to get it on your new alt. Put in the effort.

And actually character achievements are quite useful, since many of those also have something else attached to them. Like landmarks, that also give exploiration XP, and the achievement journal can be used to check if you got them all or missed one on your new alt. Or shyshards, again you can check which one you still have to grab on your new alt (unless you like paying for 'em) Or crafting motiv pages.

Though I reckon next the "gimme crowd" will make a case for getting all the exploration expees account wide as well...
...and if they ever sway ZOS, it might even come. As... you guessed it... crown store convenience item! Map unlock, pay for each zone you are too lazy to walk through with your character...

Comixfan wrote: »

I've no real desire to do all that content again on alts that haven't done it.

Then don't.
And do without those achievements on those alts.
Its -really- that simple.

Just like you can say you don't want to do the TG or DB grind again on this or that alt, and then do without that skill line. Or Psijic, or Undaunted, or Alliance rank, or whatever.

Not that I expect the gimme crown won't go and ask for that account wide too sometime...

Comixfan wrote: »

All toons on an account should be able to contribute to achievements and then the achievements are unlocked for the account.

...which is like saying just because the dunmer assassin did something, somehow the breton mage who never did it shouzld have it marked as "done" anyhow?
Next you will be wanting all the quest completion expees from your main dropped on your alt at tutorial, right???
I mean... same thing, really?
At least according to your logic, huh?
(And yes, I am aware we get something like that with the champion system anyhow. Which most other games do not do. Should you not be grateful to ZOS, instead of asking for yet more?)

Comixfan wrote: »

ZOS definitely do some weird things with this MMO. Not just the achievements, but I've also always found it odd that the mount stuff isn't account-wide either.

The mount stuff is account wide.
The riding training is not.
Just like your character levels and skills are not account wide.
What's so hard to understand?
(and yes, its to make you break down and buy the riding lessons in the crown store - the option for those with more money then patience!)

and yet while my character is gaing all of this under my control...this will never get this without me...
and to your quote with who have done things..you or your character...my character wont exist without me so there wont be any completions on cjaracter without player

and if something hurst for your immersion..then what about every my char looks literally same? even have same outfit? that much I would want single character but with option to choose class whenver I want without losing achievs which I is now and achievs which I have already done on character which I stopped playing jsut doesnt count to anything other now....so I dont have point with gaing more especially on alts

and to your knowledge as how this system is now if I had option I woudl turn off ability to get any achiev on my alts...just to show how I dont care about those on my alts as I dont even want get those again once I have got on my main which mean nothing now since I stopped playing this char

And there would be no achievements for you if it were not for your character. It is a shared effort between you and your character.

if I cant get this also shared on my account...can I atleast get an option to disable achievs then?
I know I can simply just ignory it all will tell...but still I will see this empty achiev tabs with not to mention notifactions if I get an achiev about which I didint mind....I just dont want to see it because then I dont have any intentions to care about it so why Im getting mid of my screen I get an achiev which I have in ass? its painfull to see and bother me as I dont mind getting those on alts, these are created for play, not to track their meaningless progress which is not shared

this is bothering my gameplay when I just play and then I see I unlocked an acheivement which I didnt even want on this character but I get because someone in my group have done it for example

Mr_Walker · June 2019

I only support account wide PvP cheevs.

jainiadral · June 2019

Yes

@Edziu

Just FYI, not all of the casual community is against change. We're all individuals with our differing thoughts and preferences. For me, the thought of grinding anything, including achievements is a recipe for burnout. I like a nice cushy, convenient QOL, and I'd love it if ZOS would tone down the per-toon grind of horse training. Making it account-based would make me ecstatic. I wouldn't shed a tear if skyshards or lorebooks or guild rep grind became account-based either. I might even finish grinding Undaunted if that happened.

Delparis · June 2019

Yes

The game need account wide achievements.

Siohwenoeht · June 2019

No

Czekoludek wrote: »

Live how the biggest argument against account wide achievements is that every char creates his/her own story but gaining CP for all your chars by playing only one is okay. Or wearing the skin other char achieved. Or sharing the gold with rest of your characters. Look, I'm Vestige, lvl 4 in emperor armor, with silver skin and 14mil gold. Isn't that truly immersive, right?

I'd rather the skins be character bound, but mine don't wear it if that toon didn't earn it. Frankly if ap and telvar were character bound, most of the PVP problems from the bad kind of flipping would go away without need for locked servers.

Titles need to be character bound, especially PVP titles. I would be just as perturbed at a level 1 tyro as a level 1 former emperor.

The thing that puts me against titles, and against the argument of "I did it, not the toon" is that it's far more impressive to me if you ran each class through the content for the title. That shows individual prowess. So for some of us it isn't that we see the titles as only an accomplishment for a single toon, but that we achieved them several times on different classes/in different ways.

If it's truly all just about an aggregate score, then zos should be able to make a separate tab that consolidates all the achievements across all the characters on an account. No problem there, but leave the character titles for characters.

Sotha_Sil · June 2019

Yes

People just don't realize that keeping it the way it is, is just letting ZOS giving us artificial content by having to do the same things x times on every character. That is not content, it is just lazy design.

I like the stories and would gladly do it again on other characters but I am not in favor of having to do the "kill x things" achievements on all my characters... it is stupid and pointless.

If achievements were account wide, we could do whatever achievement we want on whatever character instead of being forced to play 1 character to get full completion, which is extremely tiresome after 5 years in the game, playing the same class over and over. If you like to play one character it's fine, but the game has 6 classes now. Not trying others is definitely missing out.

About the titles, if you had done them on a character, you have done it.. so if you display them on whatever character, it does not matter, you have done the content after all, you deserve the title. We are definitely way past the RPG point at this point when you look at the crown store.

Suggestion : I am in favor of a mixed system where the stories are linked to your characters but all the other grinding achievements are account wide. ZOS could always implement a way to redo the achievements if you want to in order to give you extra achievements points for example, that could unlock rewards (like daily stuff) => a win-win for the players and ZOS.

TLDR : Please, don't let ZOS get what they want here : just keeping us engaged in the game for doing things that are not interesting to do : We deserve better than a game with grinding mechanics. This leads to one thing : "convenience" item in the crown store, and ZOS preying on our frustration. Skyshards are the first ones. If achievements were account wide, you would not have to pay for something you have ALREADY done. It is like paying for elsweyr a second time when I have just bought it already... Who wants that ? no one! Don't you see what ZOS is doing here ? Don't defend them please. They have no excuse.

Where will it end ? You have the power to change that trend by voicing your opinion against this shady stuff, here on the forums because ZOS reads it. Don't let the community down. It is just a matter of time before Zenimax monetizes all achievements. It's not too late yet but they already announced more is to come...

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

jainiadral wrote: »

@Edziu

Just FYI, not all of the casual community is against change. We're all individuals with our differing thoughts and preferences. For me, the thought of grinding anything, including achievements is a recipe for burnout. I like a nice cushy, convenient QOL, and I'd love it if ZOS would tone down the per-toon grind of horse training. Making it account-based would make me ecstatic. I wouldn't shed a tear if skyshards or lorebooks or guild rep grind became account-based either. I might even finish grinding Undaunted if that happened.

well but you know how it is? we are like those quietly more logical because we are giving many different good arguments, propopsals but we need huge amount of people to out-shoud arleady much much loder but with much less numbers community beecause immersion is much louder than logic to QoL for majority of players

btw most of my friends in ESO if not every would whant also account shared achievs
some of them are bored playing single class for this and others cant even gather than many achievs for their mains which are as dps roles and classes with it because they play much more content as support role because they know they will have no option to get those achievs like challengers in vet dlc dungs on thier DD's mains because they know they will have noone to do this so they are getting all those hard achievs on their damn alts while they mains remains withouth those and with only easy like to rp achievs and so they are stuck to have no option to have completed this all on their single main

jainiadral · June 2019

Yes

Edziu wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

@Edziu

Just FYI, not all of the casual community is against change. We're all individuals with our differing thoughts and preferences. For me, the thought of grinding anything, including achievements is a recipe for burnout. I like a nice cushy, convenient QOL, and I'd love it if ZOS would tone down the per-toon grind of horse training. Making it account-based would make me ecstatic. I wouldn't shed a tear if skyshards or lorebooks or guild rep grind became account-based either. I might even finish grinding Undaunted if that happened.

well but you know how it is? we are like those quietly more logical because we are giving many different good arguments, propopsals but we need huge amount of people to out-shoud arleady much much loder but with much less numbers community beecause immersion is much louder than logic to QoL for majority of players
btw most of my friends in ESO if not every would whant also account shared achievs
some of them are bored playing single class for this and others cant even gather than many achievs for their mains which are as dps roles and classes with it because they play much more content as support role because they know they will have no option to get those achievs like challengers in vet dlc dungs on thier DD's mains because they know they will have noone to do this so they are getting all those hard achievs on their damn alts while they mains remains withouth those and with only easy like to rp achievs and so they are stuck to have no option to have completed this all on their single main

Your spoiler sounds really frustrating

Honestly, all of these individual achievements-per-toon games are like this. I read similar frustrations related to Secret World Legends, where people would have liked to try other faction stories, but since outfits and cosmetics and gearing required so much time investment, they stuck with only one toon they did everything on. Systems like that are murder for people who love alts.

I hate that there's so little understanding among different kinds of players that different preferences aren't right or wrong. They just are. Achievement hunters have fun gathering achievements-- and a lot of them love alts. This is perfectly fine. Other people love questing. Or RP. Or raiding, or running dungeons or PvP. Every single one of these activities is fun for a certain set of players. None is any less valid than any other. What matters is that you're having fun. Getting achievements isn't inherently inferior to building stories in your head or slaughtering another player in a duel. It's not "getting gold stars," it's playing the game the way you like.

When a game is engineered to put artificial obstacles in your way like this, it's frustrating as hell. There's no real reason, except that ZOS seems to love tacking grind onto everything to keep you logging in. That's it.

Edziu · June 2019

Yes

jainiadral wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

@Edziu

Just FYI, not all of the casual community is against change. We're all individuals with our differing thoughts and preferences. For me, the thought of grinding anything, including achievements is a recipe for burnout. I like a nice cushy, convenient QOL, and I'd love it if ZOS would tone down the per-toon grind of horse training. Making it account-based would make me ecstatic. I wouldn't shed a tear if skyshards or lorebooks or guild rep grind became account-based either. I might even finish grinding Undaunted if that happened.

well but you know how it is? we are like those quietly more logical because we are giving many different good arguments, propopsals but we need huge amount of people to out-shoud arleady much much loder but with much less numbers community beecause immersion is much louder than logic to QoL for majority of players
btw most of my friends in ESO if not every would whant also account shared achievs
some of them are bored playing single class for this and others cant even gather than many achievs for their mains which are as dps roles and classes with it because they play much more content as support role because they know they will have no option to get those achievs like challengers in vet dlc dungs on thier DD's mains because they know they will have noone to do this so they are getting all those hard achievs on their damn alts while they mains remains withouth those and with only easy like to rp achievs and so they are stuck to have no option to have completed this all on their single main

Your spoiler sounds really frustrating Honestly, all of these individual achievements-per-toon games are like this. I read similar frustrations related to Secret World Legends, where people would have liked to try other faction stories, but since outfits and cosmetics and gearing required so much time investment, they stuck with only one toon they did everything on. Systems like that are murder for people who love alts.

I hate that there's so little understanding among different kinds of players that different preferences aren't right or wrong. They just are. Achievement hunters have fun gathering achievements-- and a lot of them love alts. This is perfectly fine. Other people love questing. Or RP. Or raiding, or running dungeons or PvP. Every single one of these activities is fun for a certain set of players. None is any less valid than any other. What matters is that you're having fun. Getting achievements isn't inherently inferior to building stories in your head or slaughtering another player in a duel. It's not "getting gold stars," it's playing the game the way you like.

When a game is engineered to put artificial obstacles in your way like this, it's frustrating as hell. There's no real reason, except that ZOS seems to love tacking grind onto everything to keep you logging in. That's it.

yep thats it and yes Im very frustated with my friends
ther was many times when we could play, even jsut farm together specific acheivements but because some of us yet gave up and stopped playing main many of us stopped to hunt achievements which was additionalyy keeping us for more in this game

the best from your post what I can add where every player is equal even if enjoy from different aspect of game we can see here as people like we acheivement hunters which we are not very small amount of playerbase but we are those "worse sort" not worth attention by game devs in eyes of loud RP IMMERSION while rest of community just dont care about this and see this is not bad we are still those worse players because our preference of play is immersion breaking to fewer players and those also seems to thing there are not only better from rest but their preference to play is the best among all others in game so they have the most to say and most important than rest, if not then they will start acting like they are victims.

this loud rp community is just failure as I have wrote it before..even just toxic players in game are better to talk, exanchge your arguments together because they at all also listen others more likely

ghastley · June 2019

No

And I need to keep saying no on this. I do not want my ability to track which character has done what removed from the game. By all means provide an account-wide summary, but don't remove the detail. We have account-wide trophies to tell us we've done a specific dungeon on the account. The character has an achievement to indicate it was that specific character. Keep it that way.

idk · June 2019

Yes

ghastley wrote: »

And I need to keep saying no on this. I do not want my ability to track which character has done what removed from the game. By all means provide an account-wide summary, but don't remove the detail. We have account-wide trophies to tell us we've done a specific dungeon on the account. The character has an achievement to indicate it was that specific character. Keep it that way.

Why does everyone think that Zos would have to remove character based achievement listings to be able to add account wide? It seems like a weak argument fabricated to argue against change for the sake of arguing against change.

Regardless, keep up the responses. We all know the first reason Zos gave for brining back faction locks is people asked for it. We keep threads like this going then Zos will bring us account wide achievement listings.

tahol10069 · June 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

I dislike positions based on half truths.

There is No game that gives ALL the achievements of a single character to ALL other characters - ie. to the Account.

Wrong. SWTOR does. SWTOR has a legacy-system, where all your characters are connected. It also has legacy-perks, where some need to be bought only once, and some for every character separately. Legacy has also legacy-wide buffs that affect all characters, present and future, once achieved. All achievements are account-tied, not character-tied. For long time datacrons had to be farmed with every character, but even those are now tied to your legacy aka account.

If you don't believe my word, you can read it from here: https://swtor.gamepedia.com/Achievement

It is a frieking awesome system, and I have no idea why every game doesn't have something like it. Well, ESO tries something remotely similar when having CP being tied to your account, not to your character.

I dislike people who are sure they know everything from everything.

idk · June 2019

Yes

@tahol10069

It has been pointed out a few times how wrong that statement is which is probably why they have not returned. The irony of that post is humorous.

Wolfpaw · June 2019

Yes

Account wide everything, bring the player not the toon.

Alchemical · June 2019

Yes

Considering the amount of difficult and expensive achievements I've done twice (or more) I would be furious if they were suddenly account wide and wasted all my effort.

But also the world doesn't revolve around me, and I think on a non-individual level it's a better approach on the whole. Now that the 'appearances' are account wide there's no reason for the motif collection achievements to not be, they only exist for the points. If you can clear veteran Sunspire on your Templar you are probably skillfull and/or connected enough to do it on your Dragonknight. If a player is able to achieve something difficult on one character, we can suspend our disbelief and say that they'd be able to do it on another.

So many things in this game ARE account wide, it really seems absurd that achievements aren't. Heck, even the Skyshards are account wide now if you're willing to pay crowns.