Make faction lock ONE CAMPAIGN

bulbousb16_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to go with your metaphor, faction lock is basically asking football teams in the AFC to be blocked from playing other teams in the AFC and to only play teams in the NFC.

No, faction lock is like preventing one person from owning two teams.

Gilvoth

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Nooooo please keep it as it is. It's good.

this ^
well said Chrysa1is

AhPook_Is_Here

ll_Rev wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I'm curious, as to why people don't feel like they should pick a team? Is there any competitive sport in which you can just walk across a line to join the other team for whatever reason? Any armed conflict that flipping around when you like is permissible?

@Minyassa Pretty much, but how people compete and view the other team is really up to someones own viewpoint of competition.

For those that switch to help lower numbers, I get if you like to play the underdog. I think the problem has been ap farmers and trolls. I have known whole guilds that flip faction depending on who is up. You're not the problem, it's a problem of people looking to exploit a situation or troll.

Regardless, I feel that for the time being faction lock is here, especially in regards to their new design with the daedric artifact. In theory, it is designed to appear closer to the side that is loosing and offer them the ability to rise from the ashes. The feedback they will need will be in terms of:

Is the artificat under or overperforming?
Is it reaching the hands of the lowest performing faction?
Should it have the same strength in the hands of the dominate faction? Zerg groups dominating the map with emp wouldn't make much sense.

I'm liking the artificat so far, but it needs some adjustment.

because this pvp isn't like a team at all, nor is it competitive.

But it is for some players, maybe even the majority of players who enjoy the immersion aspect of the game, just not for you. They don't want you messing that up for them by ruining their immersion. They want to play separately from players with a justifiable and deserved AP farming motive, and you should respect that and find players that want to participate in that farming.

The game has 2 scoreboards, and it motivates different play styles and there should be no reason that either one should be forced to play with the other. Now this is the case, and these false dilemmas just don't really hold much water.

AlnilamE

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

Soooooo, people say faction lock is a horrible idea because they want to be able to play with their friends

Yes, people do say this. And it is completely untrue. Faction lock in no way prevents anyone from playing with friends.

It might. I have guildies who don't PvP a lot and when faction locks were a thing in the past, when we had our Saturday morning events to go to Cyrodiil getting skyshards and maybe engaging in PvP for a bit, it was hard to find a campaign that all of us could join at the same time.

So having some campaings without faction lock is good.

but for the folks who care about playing for their team the whole campaign and leading them to victory, faction lock is also good.

generalmyrick

faction jumping sucks! boo!

Hallothiel

Ok am just curious about one thing - people who say they group with friends on other factions - how do you fo this?!

Iirc you cant group with people in a different faction to you in Cyrodiil. At least you cant on console.....

bulbousb16_ESO

Hallothiel wrote: »

Ok am just curious about one thing - people who say they group with friends on other factions - how do you fo this?!

Iirc you cant group with people in a different faction to you in Cyrodiil. At least you cant on console.....

I never said "group with friends", I said "play with friends". If you are on different factions, that means finding them and killing them. But you're still playing together.

Hallothiel

@bulbousb16_ESO

That wasn't directed at you! Was directed at those who say this spoils their ability to group with friends from other factions. Was curious how they manage it.

Sanguinor2

Hallothiel wrote: »

@bulbousb16_ESO

That wasn't directed at you! Was directed at those who say this spoils their ability to group with friends from other factions. Was curious how they manage it.

They, me included, had characters for atleast 2 or all 3 alliances and switched to for example an AD character if their AD Friends ran a Group, they now have to choose between playing the majority of their characters or playing with their Friends if they want no cp pvp.

master_vanargand

You are too early to pessimize.
I love PvP but not yet war.
Because I am busy in Elsweyr, surely your faction warriors are also busy.
If you strongly wish to win, it is the aim of Faction Lock.
Let's fight for victory in the war.

Shardaxx

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Ok am just curious about one thing - people who say they group with friends on other factions - how do you fo this?!

Iirc you cant group with people in a different faction to you in Cyrodiil. At least you cant on console.....

I never said "group with friends", I said "play with friends". If you are on different factions, that means finding them and killing them. But you're still playing together.

But you can still do that with faction lock.

Hallothiel

I am having a bit of difficulty in understanding the problem here.

I play pvp with an AD guild. Vivec is the campaign we play in, no guildmember is to play on another faction in Vivec. Which is fine.

I have characters from other factions. When i need to do pvp with them, I go to another campaign.

If my pve guilds wants to go pve-ing in Cyrodiil and we have a mix of factions, we chose one of the quieter campaigns. Cant exactly ‘group up’ though & you have to do delve bosses very carefully.

There is still a choice of 2non faction campaigns to chose from - so, again, what is the problem?

BRogueNZ

TequilaFire wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

But if he got a temp ban for it then it means ZOS is watching for it.

I think this issue was so blatant there were a mountain of reports.

Bear in mind I heard he was banned third hand.

I also think there are enough reports on a range of abuses made possible by faction-hopping that faction-lock seemed to ZoS to be the best universal solution, and only they know for sure, and only they know what they were watching for. Reports? Something in the data? Magic 8ball?

I also ask that faction-lock supporters not use this example to suggest faction-lock opponents condone this activity. I try to be clear that faction-hopping in itself is not the problem, it is the abuses that open campaigns make possible.

Seeing as how the 7 day campaign was the one with the emp trading and AP farming abuses, let’s lock the 7 day and unlock the 30 day.

Then we can see how many of you really care about faction locks by going to the 7 day campaign.

Actually I will be playing my non EP characters more on the 7 day campaign now.
Best of both worlds my EP characters playing with guild on 30 day locked and playing solo or zerg surfing on the 7 day with my DC alts.

stop thinking

Mr_Walker

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Synnastix wrote: »

What’s the “abuse” you guys are claiming? Worst I’ve seen were people harassing others for being a “spy”.

When 1 factions is loosing heavily..people switch chars and play for winning faction..infinitelly reducing a chance for a loosing faction to rise up...

With fac-lock you are forced to help your faction of choice rise up and win insteaad of hopping on the winners side and crushing the loosing faction even worse..

It makes for more competition and fighting chance fpr everyone..

Blood for the Pact!!

An amusing fantasy. What really happens is that with faction locks any mathematical balance is baked in, where it will impact heavily off peak, and now, players like me will be unable to swap to the losing faction to see some action. It will be very exciting either gating or being gated for 6+ hours a day I'm sure....

NBrookus

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I'm curious, as to why people don't feel like they should pick a team? Is there any competitive sport in which you can just walk across a line to join the other team for whatever reason? Any armed conflict that flipping around when you like is permissible?

Cyrodiil is not remotely competitive. Competitive games have balance so both sides are equal except in skill and execution. No competitive endeavor lets one team bring 50 and "win" by fighting 2. Or has scoring manipulated by the time of day. Or has playing fields where defense or offense is at a specific disadvantage by design. Or gives some players track shoes and others wooden clogs and says run a race.

All of the above are by design, to make Cyrodiil more interesting. But competitive? No.

And I DID pick a team. Several, over the years. My team is my friends list and guilds, people I enjoy and have my back when it gets rough out there. We help each other with leveling or crafting or dungeons or gear farming. Sometimes we fight each other for fun and training, but at heart pvp is a group activity and we want to group together and play.

The random guy crying in zone about how everyone killing him is cheating? Not my "team" just because we wear the same chevron color. I'll probably help him, because that's part of playing the game, but I feel no particular loyalty to random zone chat warriors.

Trueblue

Lock must stay. Got PvP guild and many of ppl before this lock jump from one to another depend what site got advantage, now you need stay one side and this eliminate in 90% "spy" becaus LOCK. Lock must stay.

Knightpanther

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Make faction lock ALL campaigns. There is absolutely zero reason that people should be playing all sides of the campaign. There are more reasons to do this than just reducing exploitation.

Completely agree, faction lock is something that has been asked for a while now.
An overwhelming number of people in the old SS chat channels were pro Faction Lock due to many idiots ruining the playing experience for the rest of us.

Long may it continue.

Be safe

zaria

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Make faction lock ALL campaigns. There is absolutely zero reason that people should be playing all sides of the campaign. There are more reasons to do this than just reducing exploitation.

One good reason is that you might be member of multiple guilds who might belong in different factions doing PvP events as part of their activity.

killahsin

Hallothiel wrote: »

I am having a bit of difficulty in understanding the problem here.

I play pvp with an AD guild. Vivec is the campaign we play in, no guildmember is to play on another faction in Vivec. Which is fine.

I have characters from other factions. When i need to do pvp with them, I go to another campaign.

If my pve guilds wants to go pve-ing in Cyrodiil and we have a mix of factions, we chose one of the quieter campaigns. Cant exactly ‘group up’ though & you have to do delve bosses very carefully.

There is still a choice of 2non faction campaigns to chose from - so, again, what is the problem?

yup but people are complaining because they want the rewards. They use a platitude of bullet points to justify that its not just about the rewards but its just about the rewards. Which is why i think ZoS should bump the rewards on the other campaigns. Keeping the rewards the same simply created a nerf stigma. By raising the rewards for all the factions or re-thinking their reward strategy they could have turned this into an entirely different conversation.

Knightpanther

killahsin wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

I am having a bit of difficulty in understanding the problem here.

I play pvp with an AD guild. Vivec is the campaign we play in, no guildmember is to play on another faction in Vivec. Which is fine.

I have characters from other factions. When i need to do pvp with them, I go to another campaign.

If my pve guilds wants to go pve-ing in Cyrodiil and we have a mix of factions, we chose one of the quieter campaigns. Cant exactly ‘group up’ though & you have to do delve bosses very carefully.

There is still a choice of 2non faction campaigns to chose from - so, again, what is the problem?

yup but people are complaining because they want the rewards. They use a platitude of bullet points to justify that its not just about the rewards but its just about the rewards. Which is why i think ZoS should bump the rewards on the other campaigns. Keeping the rewards the same simply created a nerf stigma. By raising the rewards for all the factions or re-thinking their reward strategy they could have turned this into an entirely different conversation.

Rewards.

I don't know about rewards but if some people weren't complete idiots in the old campaigns there would never have been faction locks.

Be safe

Regal_Imp

Trueblue wrote: »

Lock must stay. Got PvP guild and many of ppl before this lock jump from one to another depend what site got advantage, now you need stay one side and this eliminate in 90% "spy" becaus LOCK. Lock must stay.

spai.

Ectheliontnacil

therift wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

I'll provide an example of how faction-hopping damages competitive gameplay.

I'm not going to state Alliances, because that's unimportant. I'm not going to say when this occurred, other than not recently, because I don't want the focus to shift to who or what guild.

My Alliance, which was far behind in points, managed to capture an enemy scroll after several hours of attempts. The enemy Alliance promptly dropped everything else they were doing to form a huge zerg to chase.

The third Alliance, which had a spawn point close enough to intercept, also gave chase with a large group.

After a series of close battles, during which that scroll changed hands three times, we finally secured it in one of our gate keeps. The Alliance to which the scroll belonged set up siege, which we defended, even to the point of throwing them back out of a breach and partially repairing.

At that moment, a player who had been observed numerous times in the enemy chase zerg, entered our gate keep on a character of our Alliance, picked up the enemy scroll, and hopped over the wall with it, into the waiting arms of his friends on the opposing Alliance.

We couldn't stop him. He was on our Alliance.

We were helpless as he walked into the enemy siege line and stood there while they killed him and took the scroll

All of our Alliance's effort was undone by one player who who faction-hopped to bypass the keep walls, bypass the keep guards, and bypass every defending player.

I guess the messages his guildies sent to some of us was just icing on the cake.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll capture.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll and keep defense.

We got screwed out of the Enemy Scroll buff.

We got screwed out of at least one 10 point score tick.

All because one player was able to swap factions within a few minutes.


So, yeah, faction-hopping leads to abuses that only a faction-lock can prevent. Could it be done with alt accounts? Sure... but not easily, not be every player in the game, and not quickly enough to matter.

And by the way... friends of that player report that he caught a temporary ban for bypassing intended gameplay mechanics.


This isn't a rare occurrence. It happens often enough to make a significant impact.

You can't just pick up a scroll, if it's already been secured at a keep of your alliance.
Otherwise players would constantly take them away to lure out enemies and farm pugs.

Unless this was changed recently, I'm pretty sure this is just a blatant lie.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

That's what I thought. I've never tried to move a scroll, but it looks like the option is there. We had another incident over the weekend.

@therift

The option is there, but if you actually try to pick up a scroll that's stored inside a keep you will get an error message.
Idk what incidents you experienced but I'm certain it didn't happen the way you described it.
Maybe there's a bug that allows you to take the scroll somehow?

rumple9

All the servers are half full. Big fail

cheemers

No, faction lock is fine as is. Either play on multiple campaigns to play cross-alliance, or set your home campaign to a non-locked campaign. The lock fixes MANY longstanding problems of spying and bandwagoning on winning campaigns.

Diundriel

Zerglings Rule the Forums

TequilaFire

rumple9 wrote: »

All the servers are half full. Big fail

That would be an improvement as some were empty before.
Maybe people spread out.

Vercingetorix

You can't cheat anymore. Seriously, get over it. No more sabotaging 30-day campaigns for securing 10+ 30-day campaign rewards. We know you folks are cheating to secure monthly gold and jewelry campaign payouts. Time to learn how to play the game correctly now - or leave. You won't be missed either way.

bulbousb16_ESO

Diundriel wrote: »

Zerglings Rule the Forums

Fixed!

therift

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

I'll provide an example of how faction-hopping damages competitive gameplay.

I'm not going to state Alliances, because that's unimportant. I'm not going to say when this occurred, other than not recently, because I don't want the focus to shift to who or what guild.

My Alliance, which was far behind in points, managed to capture an enemy scroll after several hours of attempts. The enemy Alliance promptly dropped everything else they were doing to form a huge zerg to chase.

The third Alliance, which had a spawn point close enough to intercept, also gave chase with a large group.

After a series of close battles, during which that scroll changed hands three times, we finally secured it in one of our gate keeps. The Alliance to which the scroll belonged set up siege, which we defended, even to the point of throwing them back out of a breach and partially repairing.

At that moment, a player who had been observed numerous times in the enemy chase zerg, entered our gate keep on a character of our Alliance, picked up the enemy scroll, and hopped over the wall with it, into the waiting arms of his friends on the opposing Alliance.

We couldn't stop him. He was on our Alliance.

We were helpless as he walked into the enemy siege line and stood there while they killed him and took the scroll

All of our Alliance's effort was undone by one player who who faction-hopped to bypass the keep walls, bypass the keep guards, and bypass every defending player.

I guess the messages his guildies sent to some of us was just icing on the cake.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll capture.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll and keep defense.

We got screwed out of the Enemy Scroll buff.

We got screwed out of at least one 10 point score tick.

All because one player was able to swap factions within a few minutes.


So, yeah, faction-hopping leads to abuses that only a faction-lock can prevent. Could it be done with alt accounts? Sure... but not easily, not be every player in the game, and not quickly enough to matter.

And by the way... friends of that player report that he caught a temporary ban for bypassing intended gameplay mechanics.


This isn't a rare occurrence. It happens often enough to make a significant impact.

You can't just pick up a scroll, if it's already been secured at a keep of your alliance.
Otherwise players would constantly take them away to lure out enemies and farm pugs.

Unless this was changed recently, I'm pretty sure this is just a blatant lie.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

That's what I thought. I've never tried to move a scroll, but it looks like the option is there. We had another incident over the weekend.

@therift

The option is there, but if you actually try to pick up a scroll that's stored inside a keep you will get an error message.
Idk what incidents you experienced but I'm certain it didn't happen the way you described it.
Maybe there's a bug that allows you to take the scroll somehow?

@ecthurlowb16_ESO

Hmm... or more likely the scroll was not 'secured' as I thought.

But scrolls do seem to move out of keeps. It's rare, but if memory serves, it's usually at a keep under attack. Perhaps an exploit? Teamwork? I've been present at just one such incident. The others were zone chatter reports and map observations.

The more common problem occurs after a keep with a capped scroll is breached, a 'friendly' will pick it up whilst the NPCs are dealt with by everyone else. The 'friendly' promptly delivers it to the enemy outside. Of course, in that situation, it's tough to tell if the delivery was deliberate or simply a poor decision... but when you're fighting that scroll carrier a few minutes later, one tends to believe in exploitation of faction-hopping.

AhPook_Is_Here

therift wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

I'll provide an example of how faction-hopping damages competitive gameplay.

I'm not going to state Alliances, because that's unimportant. I'm not going to say when this occurred, other than not recently, because I don't want the focus to shift to who or what guild.

My Alliance, which was far behind in points, managed to capture an enemy scroll after several hours of attempts. The enemy Alliance promptly dropped everything else they were doing to form a huge zerg to chase.

The third Alliance, which had a spawn point close enough to intercept, also gave chase with a large group.

After a series of close battles, during which that scroll changed hands three times, we finally secured it in one of our gate keeps. The Alliance to which the scroll belonged set up siege, which we defended, even to the point of throwing them back out of a breach and partially repairing.

At that moment, a player who had been observed numerous times in the enemy chase zerg, entered our gate keep on a character of our Alliance, picked up the enemy scroll, and hopped over the wall with it, into the waiting arms of his friends on the opposing Alliance.

We couldn't stop him. He was on our Alliance.

We were helpless as he walked into the enemy siege line and stood there while they killed him and took the scroll

All of our Alliance's effort was undone by one player who who faction-hopped to bypass the keep walls, bypass the keep guards, and bypass every defending player.

I guess the messages his guildies sent to some of us was just icing on the cake.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll capture.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll and keep defense.

We got screwed out of the Enemy Scroll buff.

We got screwed out of at least one 10 point score tick.

All because one player was able to swap factions within a few minutes.


So, yeah, faction-hopping leads to abuses that only a faction-lock can prevent. Could it be done with alt accounts? Sure... but not easily, not be every player in the game, and not quickly enough to matter.

And by the way... friends of that player report that he caught a temporary ban for bypassing intended gameplay mechanics.


This isn't a rare occurrence. It happens often enough to make a significant impact.

You can't just pick up a scroll, if it's already been secured at a keep of your alliance.
Otherwise players would constantly take them away to lure out enemies and farm pugs.

Unless this was changed recently, I'm pretty sure this is just a blatant lie.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

That's what I thought. I've never tried to move a scroll, but it looks like the option is there. We had another incident over the weekend.

@therift

The option is there, but if you actually try to pick up a scroll that's stored inside a keep you will get an error message.
Idk what incidents you experienced but I'm certain it didn't happen the way you described it.
Maybe there's a bug that allows you to take the scroll somehow?

@ecthurlowb16_ESO

Hmm... or more likely the scroll was not 'secured' as I thought.

But scrolls do seem to move out of keeps. It's rare, but if memory serves, it's usually at a keep under attack. Perhaps an exploit? Teamwork? I've been present at just one such incident. The others were zone chatter reports and map observations.

The more common problem occurs after a keep with a capped scroll is breached, a 'friendly' will pick it up whilst the NPCs are dealt with by everyone else. The 'friendly' promptly delivers it to the enemy outside. Of course, in that situation, it's tough to tell if the delivery was deliberate or simply a poor decision... but when you're fighting that scroll carrier a few minutes later, one tends to believe in exploitation of faction-hopping.

It's teamwork, faction A has a scroll at a keep, faction B sneaks in a player at the keep breach, or via a gap closer feature to get on or through a wall, picks up the scroll then drops it, faction A picks it up and runs it off to wherever.