Make faction lock ONE CAMPAIGN

xan4silkb14_ESO

Soooooo, people say faction lock is a horrible idea because they want to be able to play with their friends, and unless we are talking no-cp, there is a perfectly good 7-day campaign available. But people also complain that the 7 day campaign is dead most of the time. Additionaly, I've seen claims that the rewards don't really mean much(except the transmutation geodes of course), and lots of people don't care about the score. So, if you don't care about the score and rewards are meaningless why should it matter to you if it's 7 days or 30 days? Oh, that's right, you want your 15 characters to get the transmutation geode every 30 days. There doesn't seem to be a very good reason why the 7 day campaign isn't as crowded as Vivec for those that want CP enabled play if the rewards are indeed meaningless.

I still think we should have a 7-day no-cp other than the under 50.

Thogard

therift wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

But if he got a temp ban for it then it means ZOS is watching for it.

I think this issue was so blatant there were a mountain of reports.

Bear in mind I heard he was banned third hand.

I also think there are enough reports on a range of abuses made possible by faction-hopping that faction-lock seemed to ZoS to be the best universal solution, and only they know for sure, and only they know what they were watching for. Reports? Something in the data? Magic 8ball?

I also ask that faction-lock supporters not use this example to suggest faction-lock opponents condone this activity. I try to be clear that faction-hopping in itself is not the problem, it is the abuses that open campaigns make possible.

Seeing as how the 7 day campaign was the one with the emp trading and AP farming abuses, let’s lock the 7 day and unlock the 30 day.

Then we can see how many of you really care about faction locks by going to the 7 day campaign.

Shalktonin

Thogard wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

But if he got a temp ban for it then it means ZOS is watching for it.

I think this issue was so blatant there were a mountain of reports.

Bear in mind I heard he was banned third hand.

I also think there are enough reports on a range of abuses made possible by faction-hopping that faction-lock seemed to ZoS to be the best universal solution, and only they know for sure, and only they know what they were watching for. Reports? Something in the data? Magic 8ball?

I also ask that faction-lock supporters not use this example to suggest faction-lock opponents condone this activity. I try to be clear that faction-hopping in itself is not the problem, it is the abuses that open campaigns make possible.

Seeing as how the 7 day campaign was the one with the emp trading and AP farming abuses, let’s lock the 7 day and unlock the 30 day.

Then we can see how many of you really care about faction locks by going to the 7 day campaign.

nah i love listening to you guys whine about how unfair it is...soo hard done by with the locks....poor kids

TequilaFire

Thogard wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

But if he got a temp ban for it then it means ZOS is watching for it.

I think this issue was so blatant there were a mountain of reports.

Bear in mind I heard he was banned third hand.

I also think there are enough reports on a range of abuses made possible by faction-hopping that faction-lock seemed to ZoS to be the best universal solution, and only they know for sure, and only they know what they were watching for. Reports? Something in the data? Magic 8ball?

I also ask that faction-lock supporters not use this example to suggest faction-lock opponents condone this activity. I try to be clear that faction-hopping in itself is not the problem, it is the abuses that open campaigns make possible.

Seeing as how the 7 day campaign was the one with the emp trading and AP farming abuses, let’s lock the 7 day and unlock the 30 day.

Then we can see how many of you really care about faction locks by going to the 7 day campaign.

Actually I will be playing my non EP characters more on the 7 day campaign now.
Best of both worlds my EP characters playing with guild on 30 day locked and playing solo or zerg surfing on the 7 day with my DC alts.

bulbousb16_ESO

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

Soooooo, people say faction lock is a horrible idea because they want to be able to play with their friends

Yes, people do say this. And it is completely untrue. Faction lock in no way prevents anyone from playing with friends.

therift

Thogard wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

But if he got a temp ban for it then it means ZOS is watching for it.

I think this issue was so blatant there were a mountain of reports.

Bear in mind I heard he was banned third hand.

I also think there are enough reports on a range of abuses made possible by faction-hopping that faction-lock seemed to ZoS to be the best universal solution, and only they know for sure, and only they know what they were watching for. Reports? Something in the data? Magic 8ball?

I also ask that faction-lock supporters not use this example to suggest faction-lock opponents condone this activity. I try to be clear that faction-hopping in itself is not the problem, it is the abuses that open campaigns make possible.

Seeing as how the 7 day campaign was the one with the emp trading and AP farming abuses, let’s lock the 7 day and unlock the 30 day.

Then we can see how many of you really care about faction locks by going to the 7 day campaign.

I'm thinking the opposite of you.

Nobody wants to leave the 30 day, lol

NBrookus

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Cursa wrote: »

We just want fun PVP. If the alliance we are on is dominating the map, we actually want to join the weak faction so we have people to fight against.

This is a problem. You play all sides of the conflict, so you don't actually care who wins. This is part of the reason why people are cheering the return of faction lock.

I have 9 characters with a 30 day ban now from the only active CP campaign. I still don't care who wins.

ShadowDisciple

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Cursa wrote: »

Another is that we have all been playing a game where faction lock wasn’t included

Not all of us. The game I bought included faction lock. It is finally being reinstated. Hooray!

Amen.

Erelah

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

xan4silkb14_ESO wrote: »

Soooooo, people say faction lock is a horrible idea because they want to be able to play with their friends

Yes, people do say this. And it is completely untrue. Faction lock in no way prevents anyone from playing with friends.

It does prevent me from playing with some of my friends in Cyrodil. I have wanted to join the Veiled Heritage since head start. So I quit playing my first character as I had no desire to support the Adolescent Queen and choose a character in the pact.

Are you posing that we delete our current characters and level up new characters (the easy part), while leveling up the mage guild, fighters , psijic guild, thieves guild, and dark brotherhood?

After all I would wish the full PVP experience not just attacking castles, running Cyrodil dolmens, unlocking the hero of Cyrodil (all the daily quests), Imperial City PVP.


**I only call her the Adolescent Queen because King Emeric did so.

bulbousb16_ESO

Erelah wrote: »

It does prevent me from playing with some of my friends in Cyrodil.

No, it does not. Please explain exactly how you are "prevented from playing". Does the game crash? Error message? Friends are invisible?

Erelah

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

It does prevent me from playing with some of my friends in Cyrodil.

No, it does not. Please explain exactly how you are "prevented from playing". Does the game crash? Error message? Friends are invisible?

As I am in the Ebonhart pact and some of them are not. We are not able to defend a castle together. We are not able to travel together. The game will not allow us to group up and use party chat.

In what way are we able to play together and as you only responded to one part let me remind you of everything else you ignored in your attempt to belittle me.

Are you posing that we delete our current characters and level up new characters (the easy part), while leveling up the mage guild, fighters , psijic guild, thieves guild, and dark brotherhood?

After all I would wish the full PVP experience not just attacking castles, running Cyrodil dolmens, unlocking the hero of Cyrodil (all the daily quests), Imperial City PVP.

It is every single one of those PVP activities in Cyrodil that in a faction locked server that I am not able to do with my friends as the game does not allow me to group up.

bulbousb16_ESO

Erelah wrote: »

As I am in the Ebonhart pact and some of them are not. We are not able to defend a castle together. We are not able to travel together. The game will not allow us to group up and use party chat.

Ok, so you CAN play with your friends, you are just not able to do certain things together. Stop trying to characterize it as "I cannot play with my friends" - this is incredibly misleading.

And you might actually try fighting each other - might find it to be fun.

AhPook_Is_Here

Erelah wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

It does prevent me from playing with some of my friends in Cyrodil.

No, it does not. Please explain exactly how you are "prevented from playing". Does the game crash? Error message? Friends are invisible?

As I am in the Ebonhart pact and some of them are not. We are not able to defend a castle together. We are not able to travel together. The game will not allow us to group up and use party chat.

In what way are we able to play together and as you only responded to one part let me remind you of everything else you ignored in your attempt to belittle me.

Are you posing that we delete our current characters and level up new characters (the easy part), while leveling up the mage guild, fighters , psijic guild, thieves guild, and dark brotherhood?

After all I would wish the full PVP experience not just attacking castles, running Cyrodil dolmens, unlocking the hero of Cyrodil (all the daily quests), Imperial City PVP.

It is every single one of those PVP activities in Cyrodil that in a faction locked server that I am not able to do with my friends as the game does not allow me to group up.

Just to point out, when you play chess with someone you are playing with them, even though you are their adversary, he could mean this, he could also mean that you could play on the 7 day (which should be another 30 day imo) cooperatively, or the IC or battlegrounds. So basically what he is saying is there is only one place you can't play cooperatively together, 2 if you count the no-cp campaign, but otherwise you can interact as friends everywhere else in the game, and adversaries in the rest.

Personally I have fun playing competitive games against friends.

cyberjanet

The 7-day campaign gives you 10 transmute crystals for 25k.
The 30 day campaign gives you 25.
If you are a casual PvPer, collecting skill points and transmute stone bags, do you really want to collect 40 stones for 100k AP, or 50 stones for 25k AP. Do the arithmetic.

Thogard

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

As I am in the Ebonhart pact and some of them are not. We are not able to defend a castle together. We are not able to travel together. The game will not allow us to group up and use party chat.

Ok, so you CAN play with your friends, you are just not able to do certain things together. Stop trying to characterize it as "I cannot play with my friends" - this is incredibly misleading.

And you might actually try fighting each other - might find it to be fun.

@Erelah what you’re missing is that bulbous here is encouraging you and your friends to play together despite being on different alliances. He’s apparently condoning the type of exploiting that is the only valid argument FOR faction locks.

Just let the implications of that sink in for a bit.

Regal_Imp

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

As I am in the Ebonhart pact and some of them are not. We are not able to defend a castle together. We are not able to travel together. The game will not allow us to group up and use party chat.

Ok, so you CAN play with your friends, you are just not able to do certain things together. Stop trying to characterize it as "I cannot play with my friends" - this is incredibly misleading.

And you might actually try fighting each other - might find it to be fun.

Some of us have friends on other factions we'd like to group with in a populated campaign, thats what they mean.

I have yet to hear a logical reason for faction lock. Everything you guys have mentioned is still done despite faction lock, farming emp, stealing scrolls, etc. All of the options I presented give the best of both worlds so that people can enjoy faction lock and unlocked campaigns.

Anyone who opposes these ideas without a rational reason are just incredibly vindictive, trying to punish people who don't play the game for lore or RPing

protofeckless

I have yet to hear a logical reason for faction lock.

There isn't one. It's a red herring.

Regal_Imp

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Regal_Imp wrote: »

So theres a tons of faction lock controversy, and rightfully so, its tough to understand the logic behind it, other than for players who REALLY care about lore and faction loyalty.

While I am personally against faction locking any campaign, as I believe freedom of choice is kind of a no-brainer, I do think its possible to make everybody happy in this situation AND spread out the population in vet PvP that is currently extremely vivec heavy with the other campaigns getting very little love.

My proposal is 3-fold:

1) Reduce faction lock to ONE campaign, theres a ton of outcry against it, and currently theres no way to play no-cp pvp without faction lock, which means if I have no-CP builds on multiple toons, I have no source of open world PvP.

2) Put a faction lock on the 7-day CP campaign, which sees the lowest population of any campaign. This will allow the people who NEED faction lock to have a campaign, and will spread the PvP community out a bit so that the 30-day CP campaign isn't constantly pop-locked and lagging to death.

3) If none of the above is possible, then force players to choose one faction for REWARDS and LEADERBOARD, but let players join campaigns on multiple factions as long as they're ok with forfeiting their rights to rewards. Most of the people supporting faction lock seem to believe that people swap factions to get on the winning side and win the campaign, when in reality, most of us DO NOT CARE about campaign scores, and only want to have fun with different groups of friends. This would make EVERYBODY happy, nobody would have any reason to "faction-swap" other than just to have fun.

I personally think these options are air tight, so if you think otherwise, hit up that comment section and lets discuss.

- Regal

Why does faction lock mean it’s driven by the lore police? The logic is that the games design is centered on a three faction war. Similar to how basketball is designed to have competition teams that have been accepted into the league to play against each other. It isn’t, Jordan dunks for his 28th point and the other team join him leaving 3 people on the other side.
The factions should be seen as a team and you should have to ride it out with your team. It shouldn’t be, I’m going to farm transmutation and ap depending on who is up!


If you need more examples, let me know! That is the logic in favor from a competitive pvp point of view.

Why would putting a faction lock on shor spread the population around? You don’t think in both 30 day campaigns, people aren’t jumping on toons of different factions to farm ap? Just curious, do you believe people in dedicated pvp builds like running into their own guild members playing on the other faction when they are needed to support their guild?

What you said is all about lore and RPing. The factions don't actually exist, I'm a real person who isn't fighting a war for some fictional king or queen, I'm just trying to play a fun game with whoever I want, wherever I want. Sure it's a 3-way war... in the LORE, but to most of us its just a place to go PvP whoever, without worrying about winning a pointless campaign with no real rewards.

bulbousb16_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

@Erelah what you’re missing is that bulbous here is encouraging you and your friends to play together despite being on different alliances. He’s apparently condoning the type of exploiting that is the only valid argument FOR faction locks

We ALL play together despite being in different alliances. That doesn't mean we are on the same side. I know you don't get that, but please make your best effort.

Regal_Imp wrote: »

What you said is all about lore and RPing. The factions don't actually exist, I'm a real person who isn't fighting a war for some fictional king or queen, I'm just trying to play a fun game with whoever I want, wherever I want. Sure it's a 3-way war... in the LORE, but to most of us its just a place to go PvP whoever, without worrying about winning a pointless campaign with no real rewards.

ESO is an RPG... do you not realize that? If you're ignoring the lore, you just aren't playing right.

Regal_Imp

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

@Erelah what you’re missing is that bulbous here is encouraging you and your friends to play together despite being on different alliances. He’s apparently condoning the type of exploiting that is the only valid argument FOR faction locks

We ALL play together despite being in different alliances. That doesn't mean we are on the same side. I know you don't get that, but please make your best effort.

Regal_Imp wrote: »

What you said is all about lore and RPing. The factions don't actually exist, I'm a real person who isn't fighting a war for some fictional king or queen, I'm just trying to play a fun game with whoever I want, wherever I want. Sure it's a 3-way war... in the LORE, but to most of us its just a place to go PvP whoever, without worrying about winning a pointless campaign with no real rewards.

ESO is an RPG... do you not realize that? If you're ignoring the lore, you just aren't playing right.

You're being incredibly dismissive. I have no problem with people playing for lore, but you also can't expect others to care about that kind of thing. ESO is just a game, what you take from it is entirely up to you, but it should certainly NOT be pigeon-holed so intensely. Options are important for keeping a game receptive to everybody.

bulbousb16_ESO

Regal_Imp wrote: »

You're being incredibly dismissive. I have no problem with people playing for lore, but you also can't expect others to care about that kind of thing. ESO is just a game, what you take from it is entirely up to you, but it should certainly NOT be pigeon-holed so intensely. Options are important for keeping a game receptive to everybody.

I can, and I do. If these were private servers, it would be none of my business. But people coming in to an RPG and acting like the lore doesn't matter, their character doesn't matter, factions don't matter... this kind of wholesale missing the point of the game is destructive to the rest of us.

Sanguinor2

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

We ALL play together despite being in different alliances. That doesn't mean we are on the same side. I know you don't get that, but please make your best effort.

Actually when you are on different Teams/Alliances/Factions/whatever in a PvP game/gamemode you are playing against each other not with each other. We all are playing the same game but we are not playing it together.

Regal_Imp wrote: »

ESO is an RPG... do you not realize that? If you're ignoring the lore, you just aren't playing right.

You are in no Position to tell anyone that they are playing the game wrong, everyone has to decide for him or herself how they are going to Play the game Right.

Emmagoldman

I'm curious, as to why people don't feel like they should pick a team? Is there any competitive sport in which you can just walk across a line to join the other team for whatever reason? Any armed conflict that flipping around when you like is permissible?

@Minyassa Pretty much, but how people compete and view the other team is really up to someones own viewpoint of competition.

For those that switch to help lower numbers, I get if you like to play the underdog. I think the problem has been ap farmers and trolls. I have known whole guilds that flip faction depending on who is up. You're not the problem, it's a problem of people looking to exploit a situation or troll.

Regardless, I feel that for the time being faction lock is here, especially in regards to their new design with the daedric artifact. In theory, it is designed to appear closer to the side that is loosing and offer them the ability to rise from the ashes. The feedback they will need will be in terms of:

Is the artificat under or overperforming?
Is it reaching the hands of the lowest performing faction?
Should it have the same strength in the hands of the dominate faction? Zerg groups dominating the map with emp wouldn't make much sense.

I'm liking the artificat so far, but it needs some adjustment.

bulbousb16_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Actually when you are on different Teams/Alliances/Factions/whatever in a PvP game/gamemode you are playing against each other not with each other. We all are playing the same game but we are not playing it together.

You may be competing against each other, but you are still playing with each other. If you go play 1 on 1 Basketball with your friends, you aren't on the same team. If you play Chess or Risk with your friends, you aren't on the same team.

TequilaFire

Sad the point of a game used to be winning the game, what gaming has become is how many rewards can I get.
Devs used to set the rules and you followed them or moved on, now players want to change the rules to fit themselves resulting in a chaotic bad game.
You have all of the rest of Tamriel to play with your friends and farm to your hearts content.
Cyro was supposed to be AvAvA large group massive battle game play when I bought it.
Not how many stones can I farm on 15 characters like you are doing dailies or something.

ll_Rev

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I'm curious, as to why people don't feel like they should pick a team? Is there any competitive sport in which you can just walk across a line to join the other team for whatever reason? Any armed conflict that flipping around when you like is permissible?

@Minyassa Pretty much, but how people compete and view the other team is really up to someones own viewpoint of competition.

For those that switch to help lower numbers, I get if you like to play the underdog. I think the problem has been ap farmers and trolls. I have known whole guilds that flip faction depending on who is up. You're not the problem, it's a problem of people looking to exploit a situation or troll.

Regardless, I feel that for the time being faction lock is here, especially in regards to their new design with the daedric artifact. In theory, it is designed to appear closer to the side that is loosing and offer them the ability to rise from the ashes. The feedback they will need will be in terms of:

Is the artificat under or overperforming?
Is it reaching the hands of the lowest performing faction?
Should it have the same strength in the hands of the dominate faction? Zerg groups dominating the map with emp wouldn't make much sense.

I'm liking the artificat so far, but it needs some adjustment.

because this pvp isn't like a team at all, nor is it competitive.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Regal_Imp wrote: »

You're being incredibly dismissive. I have no problem with people playing for lore, but you also can't expect others to care about that kind of thing. ESO is just a game, what you take from it is entirely up to you, but it should certainly NOT be pigeon-holed so intensely. Options are important for keeping a game receptive to everybody.

I can, and I do. If these were private servers, it would be none of my business. But people coming in to an RPG and acting like the lore doesn't matter, their character doesn't matter, factions don't matter... this kind of wholesale missing the point of the game is destructive to the rest of us.

If you’re super interested in playing through an alliance war RP storyline, you can join an roleplaying guild that’ll let you fulfill that need. This game has a pretty robust RP community.

Let the pvpers have Cyrodiil, it’s the only zone we have.

Thogard

Emmagoldman wrote: »

I'm curious, as to why people don't feel like they should pick a team? Is there any competitive sport in which you can just walk across a line to join the other team for whatever reason? Any armed conflict that flipping around when you like is permissible?

@Minyassa Pretty much, but how people compete and view the other team is really up to someones own viewpoint of competition.

For those that switch to help lower numbers, I get if you like to play the underdog. I think the problem has been ap farmers and trolls. I have known whole guilds that flip faction depending on who is up. You're not the problem, it's a problem of people looking to exploit a situation or troll.

Regardless, I feel that for the time being faction lock is here, especially in regards to their new design with the daedric artifact. In theory, it is designed to appear closer to the side that is loosing and offer them the ability to rise from the ashes. The feedback they will need will be in terms of:

Is the artificat under or overperforming?
Is it reaching the hands of the lowest performing faction?
Should it have the same strength in the hands of the dominate faction? Zerg groups dominating the map with emp wouldn't make much sense.

I'm liking the artificat so far, but it needs some adjustment.

DAoC, the game that this game’s AvA system is directly copied from, allowed you to play multiple alliances on the same server cluster.

But with regards to your sports metaphor... there aren’t just three teams lol.

If you want to go with your metaphor, faction lock is basically asking football teams in the AFC to be blocked from playing other teams in the AFC and to only play teams in the NFC.

That is obviously absurd.

bulbousb16_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Let the pvpers have Cyrodiil, it’s the only zone we have.

Cyrodiil isn't even a PvP zone... it's an Alliance War zone.

kargen27

Erelah wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Synnastix wrote: »

What’s the “abuse” you guys are claiming? Worst I’ve seen were people harassing others for being a “spy”.

When 1 factions is loosing heavily..people switch chars and play for winning faction..infinitelly reducing a chance for a loosing faction to rise up...

With fac-lock you are forced to help your faction of choice rise up and win insteaad of hopping on the winners side and crushing the loosing faction even worse..

It makes for more competition and fighting chance fpr everyone..

Blood for the Pact!!

This statement is untrue. I played when the game first came out hence everything was faction locked. There was a thirty day Emperor and a dead server. There was no rallying the troops. We tried several different times. The Emperor and their crew only came on to stop such things.

Everyone hopped severs and we had a lot more dead severs than there are PVP servers up and running. The biggest problem was with the faction lock the winners were bored (hence moving to a guest campaign as no PVP action occurred) and those losing did not want to spend their free time in a campaign which was always dominated by one side. We asked for it to be removed so we could actually play. The winning side switched to other factions so they could actually still PVP. Entire guilds made alts of different alliances not to cheat, but simply to avoid one side always winning. They wanted the underdogs to win it was a lot more fun.

Back then we had those who cheated. Dragon Knights using chains to pull enemies into the keeps walls. People standing near the edge of the castle keep where a Dragons leap allowed them to jump into the keep. There was also a lot of fun, Vampire Mist keeping up with bolt escaping mages to finish off the kill.

That isn't exactly how I remember it. What I remember is large guilds jumping campaigns and factions to sell Emperor to those with a lot of gold.