Make faction lock ONE CAMPAIGN

idk

therift wrote: »

I'll provide an example of how faction-hopping damages competitive gameplay.

I'm not going to state Alliances, because that's unimportant. I'm not going to say when this occurred, other than not recently, because I don't want the focus to shift to who or what guild.

My Alliance, which was far behind in points, managed to capture an enemy scroll after several hours of attempts. The enemy Alliance promptly dropped everything else they were doing to form a huge zerg to chase.

The third Alliance, which had a spawn point close enough to intercept, also gave chase with a large group.

After a series of close battles, during which that scroll changed hands three times, we finally secured it in one of our gate keeps. The Alliance to which the scroll belonged set up siege, which we defended, even to the point of throwing them back out of a breach and partially repairing.

At that moment, a player who had been observed numerous times in the enemy chase zerg, entered our gate keep on a character of our Alliance, picked up the enemy scroll, and hopped over the wall with it, into the waiting arms of his friends on the opposing Alliance.

We couldn't stop him. He was on our Alliance.

We were helpless as he walked into the enemy siege line and stood there while they killed him and took the scroll

All of our Alliance's effort was undone by one player who who faction-hopped to bypass the keep walls, bypass the keep guards, and bypass every defending player.

I guess the messages his guildies sent to some of us was just icing on the cake.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll capture.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll and keep defense.

We got screwed out of the Enemy Scroll buff.

We got screwed out of at least one 10 point score tick.

All because one player was able to swap factions within a few minutes.


So, yeah, faction-hopping leads to abuses that only a faction-lock can prevent. Could it be done with alt accounts? Sure... but not easily, not be every player in the game, and not quickly enough to matter.

And by the way... friends of that player report that he caught a temporary ban for bypassing intended gameplay mechanics.


This isn't a rare occurrence. It happens often enough to make a significant impact.

What is funny about this story is faction lock does nothing to stop this. The only thing it does is you will have no idea who's alt account just stole the scroll and reporting it will be pointless.

So the entire story written above is pointless as it is not against ToS to have an alt account or use it in PvP in any way. Get used to it because Zos is really good at not fixing the real issue.

Vandellia

Faction loyality Hmmm nope then again im in the area for non-pvp reasons such as skyshards delves skills fishing deeds etc so if i log in on one faction and find another has the advantage most territory i jump over to an alt thats in that faction and get my stuff done

Minyassa

Faction loyalty, literally:

marius_buys

Why faction lock works: by way of two illustrations:
1 - EP guy hops onto his AD alt and removes the scroll to run and die in front of an EP keep.
2 - DC group flips keeps then relog to EP to flip thr keeps again.

Nyladreas

What a pointless argument.

Qbiken

marius_buys wrote: »

Why faction lock works: by way of two illustrations:
1 - EP guy hops onto his AD alt and removes the scroll to run and die in front of an EP keep.
2 - DC group flips keeps then relog to EP to flip thr keeps again.

And yet these people have very little impact on the overall campaign score, since the majority of the points of a campaign are sadly earned during off-hours or by night-capping.

Emmagoldman

Regal_Imp wrote: »

So theres a tons of faction lock controversy, and rightfully so, its tough to understand the logic behind it, other than for players who REALLY care about lore and faction loyalty.

While I am personally against faction locking any campaign, as I believe freedom of choice is kind of a no-brainer, I do think its possible to make everybody happy in this situation AND spread out the population in vet PvP that is currently extremely vivec heavy with the other campaigns getting very little love.

My proposal is 3-fold:

1) Reduce faction lock to ONE campaign, theres a ton of outcry against it, and currently theres no way to play no-cp pvp without faction lock, which means if I have no-CP builds on multiple toons, I have no source of open world PvP.

2) Put a faction lock on the 7-day CP campaign, which sees the lowest population of any campaign. This will allow the people who NEED faction lock to have a campaign, and will spread the PvP community out a bit so that the 30-day CP campaign isn't constantly pop-locked and lagging to death.

3) If none of the above is possible, then force players to choose one faction for REWARDS and LEADERBOARD, but let players join campaigns on multiple factions as long as they're ok with forfeiting their rights to rewards. Most of the people supporting faction lock seem to believe that people swap factions to get on the winning side and win the campaign, when in reality, most of us DO NOT CARE about campaign scores, and only want to have fun with different groups of friends. This would make EVERYBODY happy, nobody would have any reason to "faction-swap" other than just to have fun.

I personally think these options are air tight, so if you think otherwise, hit up that comment section and lets discuss.

- Regal

Why does faction lock mean it’s driven by the lore police? The logic is that the games design is centered on a three faction war. Similar to how basketball is designed to have competition teams that have been accepted into the league to play against each other. It isn’t, Jordan dunks for his 28th point and the other team join him leaving 3 people on the other side.
The factions should be seen as a team and you should have to ride it out with your team. It shouldn’t be, I’m going to farm transmutation and ap depending on who is up!


If you need more examples, let me know! That is the logic in favor from a competitive pvp point of view.

Why would putting a faction lock on shor spread the population around? You don’t think in both 30 day campaigns, people aren’t jumping on toons of different factions to farm ap? Just curious, do you believe people in dedicated pvp builds like running into their own guild members playing on the other faction when they are needed to support their guild?

Emmagoldman

@therift

I can’t count how many times I’ve seen people running scrolls in the water or standing by people stealthed up etc. if you don’t t like faction lock, you get to blame the player base that misused this system.

therift

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

therift wrote: »

I'll provide an example of how faction-hopping damages competitive gameplay.

I'm not going to state Alliances, because that's unimportant. I'm not going to say when this occurred, other than not recently, because I don't want the focus to shift to who or what guild.

My Alliance, which was far behind in points, managed to capture an enemy scroll after several hours of attempts. The enemy Alliance promptly dropped everything else they were doing to form a huge zerg to chase.

The third Alliance, which had a spawn point close enough to intercept, also gave chase with a large group.

After a series of close battles, during which that scroll changed hands three times, we finally secured it in one of our gate keeps. The Alliance to which the scroll belonged set up siege, which we defended, even to the point of throwing them back out of a breach and partially repairing.

At that moment, a player who had been observed numerous times in the enemy chase zerg, entered our gate keep on a character of our Alliance, picked up the enemy scroll, and hopped over the wall with it, into the waiting arms of his friends on the opposing Alliance.

We couldn't stop him. He was on our Alliance.

We were helpless as he walked into the enemy siege line and stood there while they killed him and took the scroll

All of our Alliance's effort was undone by one player who who faction-hopped to bypass the keep walls, bypass the keep guards, and bypass every defending player.

I guess the messages his guildies sent to some of us was just icing on the cake.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll capture.

We got screwed out of a successful scroll and keep defense.

We got screwed out of the Enemy Scroll buff.

We got screwed out of at least one 10 point score tick.

All because one player was able to swap factions within a few minutes.


So, yeah, faction-hopping leads to abuses that only a faction-lock can prevent. Could it be done with alt accounts? Sure... but not easily, not be every player in the game, and not quickly enough to matter.

And by the way... friends of that player report that he caught a temporary ban for bypassing intended gameplay mechanics.


This isn't a rare occurrence. It happens often enough to make a significant impact.

You can't just pick up a scroll, if it's already been secured at a keep of your alliance.
Otherwise players would constantly take them away to lure out enemies and farm pugs.

Unless this was changed recently, I'm pretty sure this is just a blatant lie.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

That's what I thought. I've never tried to move a scroll, but it looks like the option is there. We had another incident over the weekend.

therift

Minyassa wrote: »

Faction loyalty, literally:

This is so true, lol

DreadDaedroth

I agree! Faction lock the 7 days campaigns and free the 30 days ones.

ShadowDisciple

Synnastix wrote: »

What’s the “abuse” you guys are claiming? Worst I’ve seen were people harassing others for being a “spy”.

When 1 factions is loosing heavily..people switch chars and play for winning faction..infinitelly reducing a chance for a loosing faction to rise up...

With fac-lock you are forced to help your faction of choice rise up and win insteaad of hopping on the winners side and crushing the loosing faction even worse..

It makes for more competition and fighting chance fpr everyone..

Blood for the Pact!!

Cursa

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Synnastix wrote: »

What’s the “abuse” you guys are claiming? Worst I’ve seen were people harassing others for being a “spy”.

When 1 factions is loosing heavily..people switch chars and play for winning faction..infinitelly reducing a chance for a loosing faction to rise up...

With fac-lock you are forced to help your faction of choice rise up and win insteaad of hopping on the winners side and crushing the loosing faction even worse..

It makes for more competition and fighting chance fpr everyone..

Blood for the Pact!!

Funnily enough I think myself and most other people who don’t want faction lock, are doing so for the complete opposite reason.

We just want fun PVP. If the alliance we are on is dominating the map, we actually want to join the weak faction so we have people to fight against.

There is no fun in sieging doors and killing guards with nobody defending, it is Player Vs Player , not player vs NPC’s to gain bad rewards. And anyway rewards are useless, you get transmute stones on the losing alliance anyway.

My reasons are in your favour at least, so why not faction lock only the rewards but allow cross play. And punish scroll flipping.

TequilaFire

Cyrodiil was never meant to be Farmville.
And players need to spread out more across the campaigns as the servers can't handle dog piling on one.

Shardaxx

I'd prefer:

30 day CP locked
7 day CP locked
30 day CP unlocked
7 day CP unlocked
No-CP locked
No-CP unlocked
Level 10-49 unlocked
Imp City ones

Then everyone is happy.

bulbousb16_ESO

Cursa wrote: »

We just want fun PVP. If the alliance we are on is dominating the map, we actually want to join the weak faction so we have people to fight against.

This is a problem. You play all sides of the conflict, so you don't actually care who wins. This is part of the reason why people are cheering the return of faction lock.

Chrysa1is

Nooooo please keep it as it is. It's good.

shimm

Faction locking makes sense if zos wants to maintain some semblance of a fair, competitive environment. What other game (that maintains a score) lets you switch sides at will? There might as well be no alliance scoring in the unlocked campaigns because it’s meaningless. Yes there are still ways around this for those that are determined, but this was a good first step to restore at least some integrity to the 30 day campaign.

Toanis

Iccotak wrote: »

Stop Faction hopping across the whole of PvP
Game needs more Faction Loyalty

For more realism and to improve faction solidarity, maybe death should be made permanent within the campaign?
Maybe reset death after a day for vampires and allow Necromancers to raise those killed in action and allow them to play as zombies (must be grouped with the necromancer) for the remainder of the campaign?

Of course you should also be court-martialled if you leave Cyrodiil and return while the campaign is still running. (Vampires will then be perma-killed for the rest of the campaign)

Cursa

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Cursa wrote: »

We just want fun PVP. If the alliance we are on is dominating the map, we actually want to join the weak faction so we have people to fight against.

This is a problem. You play all sides of the conflict, so you don't actually care who wins. This is part of the reason why people are cheering the return of faction lock.

No I don’t care who wins that’s right, (by the way all my characters are EP but I support multi faction), if I did alliance swap it would not be to take the map back and alter the campaign it would be so I can actually fight players in a PvP game mode. I mean if your dominating the whole map and have every single keep I don’t think your going to have an issue. I’m not abusing mechanics or feeding scrolls.

You said earlier in this thread there is zero reason to not have a faction lock. That just suits your ideals. One way is so the dominating factions players can actually open world. Another is that we have all been playing a game where faction lock wasn’t included, we have made friends, especially with one Tamriel, and if I want to catch up with them and spend a night playing PvP with them I shouldn’t have to go to a empty 7 day campaign with 0 population.

You have the right to your own opinions but an opinion is just that. it’s not right or wrong. My opinion is valid too so why not build the game to try and give both sides what they want. Maybe some kind of mercenary faction? Faction less players I don’t know.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a handful of comments that were baiting in nature. This is a reminder to stay on topic and keep comments constructive.

Qbiken

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Cursa wrote: »

We just want fun PVP. If the alliance we are on is dominating the map, we actually want to join the weak faction so we have people to fight against.

This is a problem. You play all sides of the conflict, so you don't actually care who wins. This is part of the reason why people are cheering the return of faction lock.

Imagine carrying who wins when the rewards for winning are close to useless.....

maboleth

This topic AGAIN.

People, you realize you have non-locked, Imperial City CP and Non-CP camp, without going to Cyrodiil? Good. That's a small, group oriented PVP that could grow into something really nice and unique.

There's Battlegrounds for PVP games.

Then, there's Cyrodiil. Faction locked because faction DOES matter. Alliance is a thing here. There was plenty of abusers and hop-to-the-winning-alliance guys before.

The lock was much needed. Embrace the change.

bulbousb16_ESO

Cursa wrote: »

Another is that we have all been playing a game where faction lock wasn’t included

Not all of us. The game I bought included faction lock. It is finally being reinstated. Hooray!

Hallothiel

Again, why don’t all those who don’t like the faction lock go and play in the apparently ‘dead’ non-locked campaigns - you can bring them back to life & jump around as much as you like.

Erelah

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Synnastix wrote: »

What’s the “abuse” you guys are claiming? Worst I’ve seen were people harassing others for being a “spy”.

When 1 factions is loosing heavily..people switch chars and play for winning faction..infinitelly reducing a chance for a loosing faction to rise up...

With fac-lock you are forced to help your faction of choice rise up and win insteaad of hopping on the winners side and crushing the loosing faction even worse..

It makes for more competition and fighting chance fpr everyone..

Blood for the Pact!!

This statement is untrue. I played when the game first came out hence everything was faction locked. There was a thirty day Emperor and a dead server. There was no rallying the troops. We tried several different times. The Emperor and their crew only came on to stop such things.

Everyone hopped severs and we had a lot more dead severs than there are PVP servers up and running. The biggest problem was with the faction lock the winners were bored (hence moving to a guest campaign as no PVP action occurred) and those losing did not want to spend their free time in a campaign which was always dominated by one side. We asked for it to be removed so we could actually play. The winning side switched to other factions so they could actually still PVP. Entire guilds made alts of different alliances not to cheat, but simply to avoid one side always winning. They wanted the underdogs to win it was a lot more fun.

Back then we had those who cheated. Dragon Knights using chains to pull enemies into the keeps walls. People standing near the edge of the castle keep where a Dragons leap allowed them to jump into the keep. There was also a lot of fun, Vampire Mist keeping up with bolt escaping mages to finish off the kill.

redlink1979

Faction needs to be locked, regardless of which campaign we are talking about.

BRogueNZ

ku5h wrote: »

Honestly, faction hoppers are but hurt for one simple reason. They are a minority and that is very evident now. The fact that's a 7 day campaign should have no relevance to them since they don't care. Problem for them is that they cant populate a campaign with a same minded people, while still thinking most ppl prefer open campaigns.

Pretty much it

AlnilamE

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

I agree! Faction lock the 7 days campaigns and free the 30 days ones.

If you don't care about helping your faction win the campaign, then the 7-day campaign is good enough for you.

For those who are playing only one team in a campaign, the faction lock on the 30-day makes more sense.

AlnilamE

Hallothiel wrote: »

Again, why don’t all those who don’t like the faction lock go and play in the apparently ‘dead’ non-locked campaigns - you can bring them back to life & jump around as much as you like.

I agree, but I also think there should be a non-CP campaign that's not faction locked.

If ZOS feels there is no room for 2 7-day campaigns, maybe they could alternate it between CP one week and non-CP the next?