Miat's is still sometimes telling its user about attacks from stealth

fred4

This reminds me of a player who block-cast Onslaught into a dodge roll in the same GCD as me ganking him with Lotus Fan. This was relatively recent.

I don't view Miat's as cheating. I use it for the resource status indicators, AD/EP/DC player counter and the "ding" when there are additional enemies.

I've been convinced that the above incident was due to cheating by an addon other than Miat's or by using cheat engine. It has been exceedingly rare that I've encountered anything like it, though, really only that one time. There was no lag to explain it - this was in IC past midnight. It could be lightning fast reactions, I suppose, but it seemed too perfect a response.

Hexquisite

SirAndy wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

But does every PC player *know* about Miat's? If not, it still gives you an advantage ...

Everyone yells about it in zone chat all the time, and also sometimes in groups.

master_vanargand

Hexquisite wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

But does every PC player *know* about Miat's? If not, it still gives you an advantage ...

Everyone yells about it in zone chat all the time, and also sometimes in groups.

There is a cheat tool for ESO.
Cheater said that those who don't cheat are stupid.
I think what you said is the same as Cheater.

Cathexis

lordrichter wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Any Football / Soccer player can use Performance-enhancing substances (drugs) too ?

Big difference is that ESO is not a competitive e-sport, and they don't seem interested in making it one. ESO is more of a social pick-up game than an organized sport.

If you are playing a social pick-up basketball game at the neighborhood court, any, or all, of the players could be taking performance enhancing substances.

Not saying they should all use Miats, and not saying that ZOS should not close any gaps that remain that can be closed, but this all does not rise to the level of comparisons to (professional) sports and steroids.

Ya and and rational human being will take one look at a casual pick-up team of roided out players and be like "well no I won't play against that, because they are obviously cheating."

The difference here being there is no obvious distinction, and the long term investment benefit of running the add-on brings in more economic resources, which do have a real world value.

Cathexis

Thogard wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Hopefully this is done with now that people understand zos removed its functions from the API.

Yeah but bad players will always need something to blame. In this case, it’s something that doesn’t exist. But hey, what’s new?

I question this and counterpoint streamlined cookiecuts and using media platforms and pay-for-fandom to engineer self-ingraciating class changes.

Dojohoda

It is possible that the attacker's stealth dropped for a split second which triggered the warning sound.

An aside: by now everyone knows that it is hard to stay in stealth around guards. Guards seem to have a large detect radius.

Mr_Nobody

Thogard wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

Well that explains the 'lucky' dodge rolls my victims sometimes make. Such addons should be banned.

They were..

they were not.

I had numerous wannabe-good players on my records dodging my skills from stealth in the middle of nowhere simple as that.

Surprisingly it doesnt happen against other dudes on the field, who are in fact actually good

Thogard

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

LordTareq wrote: »

Well that explains the 'lucky' dodge rolls my victims sometimes make. Such addons should be banned.

They were..

they were not.

I had numerous wannabe-good players on my records dodging my skills from stealth in the middle of nowhere simple as that.

Surprisingly it doesnt happen against other dudes on the field, who are in fact actually good

Dude I stream with the addon on. If you want to test out your theories to see what gets indicated, be my guest. I’ll be on in about 5 hours from this post.

Savos_Saren

It's always fun to watch people defend addons or devices that aren't technically against the TOS. Though, they give a huge advantage to winning. I wouldn't be surprised if Miats or some new form of it has popped up. I've seen people roll dodge a heavy attack from me while I'm stealthed. Right in the middle of an empty field. Maybe some people just randomly roll dodge while out of combat for no reason...

"Oh, I have Miats… but, you know... I don't use the indicators..." or "Technically, it's not a macro when I use this device..."

But, you know, whatever makes some players feel like winners.

Miriel

Yea, when i started playing again, i decided to play a clean ESO, i have to rely on what the base game tells me, and seeing some of the streamers, and the things they run... i guess some need handicap to git good, thats all i have to say...

Addons = Handicap, whats your handicap rating ?

Turelus

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Not unfair so much as becomes a mandatory add-on to help remain competitive. It's the Raid Notifier of the PvP world.

Thogard

Turelus wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Not unfair so much as becomes a mandatory add-on to help remain competitive. It's the Raid Notifier of the PvP world.

It’s not though. That got patched out a long time ago.

Why do people who have never used the addon feel like they’re in any way qualified to have an opinion on it.

Seriously. If you think it does something, download the addon and verify it.

Or is that too much work for you all?

I have 1000 hours of VOD of me playing. Not once has it alerted me to an attack before the attacker engages in combat with me. It doesn’t tell me about projectiles or channels or anything of that nature.

It does the same thing an addon that tracks “in combat” does. It just counts additional opponents who you’re in combat with.

Please reply to this telling me that I’m wrong only if you’ve actually used the addon in the last week. If you’re so unbelievably stupid that you think you’re qualified to talk about something that you not only don’t use, but that you could use and choose to be ignorant of, please just don’t.

master_vanargand

PvE Attack Notifier Tools are fine.
But PvP Attack Notifier Tools are bad.
The fight between humans must be fair.
In FPS, the tool to notifier of attack and enemies is a cheat.
If it is allowed to use in ESO, PvP will be trash.

fred4

There is nothing fair about PvP. Nothing. At no time has this been clearer to me than when watching Khyleo's recent duelling tournament. His rules disallowed a huge amount of stuff. I believe part of it was to avoid endless, defensive fights, and part to improve balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03dwT9fc3HE

If you look at the footage, you'll see a magblade trouncing other players towards the end of the tournament via sheer pressure only to have the tables completely turned by the mag DK who won the tournament (wings disallowed). Is that skill? In part, yes, but I've been in those situations where you either dominate another player or where you take so much damage yourself, you are completely forced into defense. That also has to do with builds.

You can allow or disallow any number of things and game balance will still be wonky. It is incredibly easy to run into the rock / paper / scissors effect. The only thing that mitigates that, open world, is many people building so tanky or defensive that, with both having reasonable skill, they can't actually kill each other 1v1.

master_vanargand

ZOS should make efforts more.

Nicalas

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I've seen people roll dodge a heavy attack from me while I'm stealthed. Right in the middle of an empty field. Maybe some people just randomly roll dodge while out of combat for no reason...

If I am actively moving somewhere and not mounted I dodge roll every 4 seconds on CD for the bow/wood elf speed bonuses.

Turelus

Thogard wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Not unfair so much as becomes a mandatory add-on to help remain competitive. It's the Raid Notifier of the PvP world.

It’s not though. That got patched out a long time ago.

Why do people who have never used the addon feel like they’re in any way qualified to have an opinion on it.

Seriously. If you think it does something, download the addon and verify it.

Or is that too much work for you all?

I have 1000 hours of VOD of me playing. Not once has it alerted me to an attack before the attacker engages in combat with me. It doesn’t tell me about projectiles or channels or anything of that nature.

It does the same thing an addon that tracks “in combat” does. It just counts additional opponents who you’re in combat with.

Please reply to this telling me that I’m wrong only if you’ve actually used the addon in the last week. If you’re so unbelievably stupid that you think you’re qualified to talk about something that you not only don’t use, but that you could use and choose to be ignorant of, please just don’t.

nibble nibble.

I'm not saying that just having this add-on will make you instantly the best at PvP and much better than others. However, if it didn't give you something that the base game didn't and you felt you needed that, you wouldn't use it.
If I was to get back into serious PvP and not casually play it I would probably add it to my list again as it's a good tool to have.

The issue with add-ons over all is that as more and more come out which do something that grants you a little help, you add them to your core list of "need to have" add-ons.

Games are better and more competitive when everyone is forced to play on a level playing field and you don't have to download add-ons to keep up with the benefits your opponents gain from using them.

That's just my opinion though, I could just be unbelievably stupid and choosing to be ignorant.

fred4

Turelus wrote: »

I'm not saying that just having this add-on will make you instantly the best at PvP and much better than others. However, if it didn't give you something that the base game didn't and you felt you needed that, you wouldn't use it.
If I was to get back into serious PvP and not casually play it I would probably add it to my list again as it's a good tool to have.

The issue with add-ons over all is that as more and more come out which do something that grants you a little help, you add them to your core list of "need to have" add-ons.

Games are better and more competitive when everyone is forced to play on a level playing field and you don't have to download add-ons to keep up with the benefits your opponents gain from using them.

That's just my opinion though, I could just be unbelievably stupid and choosing to be ignorant.

Being ganked is not fair, but it's part of the base game. If people choose Miat's to help them react a little quicker, I have no problem with that. I play a ganker, by the way.

Aznox

Thogard wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Not unfair so much as becomes a mandatory add-on to help remain competitive. It's the Raid Notifier of the PvP world.

It’s not though. That got patched out a long time ago.

Why do people who have never used the addon feel like they’re in any way qualified to have an opinion on it.

Seriously. If you think it does something, download the addon and verify it.

Or is that too much work for you all?

I have 1000 hours of VOD of me playing. Not once has it alerted me to an attack before the attacker engages in combat with me. It doesn’t tell me about projectiles or channels or anything of that nature.

It does the same thing an addon that tracks “in combat” does. It just counts additional opponents who you’re in combat with.

Please reply to this telling me that I’m wrong only if you’ve actually used the addon in the last week. If you’re so unbelievably stupid that you think you’re qualified to talk about something that you not only don’t use, but that you could use and choose to be ignorant of, please just don’t.

This.

Still waiting for anyone to precisely describe which current, verified working feature of the add-on they are calling out as more unfair than the average combat add-on. (because yes, many add-ons can help you build an advantage against your opponents, which this game is all about btw)

It seems to me that, in its current state, the (combat related part of the) add-on is mostly useful in a 1vX scenario to :
- quickly detect max range snipe spammers inviting themselves to an already outnumbered fight
- quickly recognize high threat (known) players, when they engage you alongside randoms

Morgul667

I dont understand the fuzz

Obviously MIAT is not helping people as it used to be and is not a major issue (whether you approve or not)

But if there is such heavy attack alert, then good that someone found it and report it.

darkblue5

Aznox wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Wow this add-on sounds a bit unfair, to be honest. Gives you an advantage.

How is this unfair, when any PC player can download Miat's?

Not unfair so much as becomes a mandatory add-on to help remain competitive. It's the Raid Notifier of the PvP world.

It’s not though. That got patched out a long time ago.

Why do people who have never used the addon feel like they’re in any way qualified to have an opinion on it.

Seriously. If you think it does something, download the addon and verify it.

Or is that too much work for you all?

I have 1000 hours of VOD of me playing. Not once has it alerted me to an attack before the attacker engages in combat with me. It doesn’t tell me about projectiles or channels or anything of that nature.

It does the same thing an addon that tracks “in combat” does. It just counts additional opponents who you’re in combat with.

Please reply to this telling me that I’m wrong only if you’ve actually used the addon in the last week. If you’re so unbelievably stupid that you think you’re qualified to talk about something that you not only don’t use, but that you could use and choose to be ignorant of, please just don’t.

This.

Still waiting for anyone to precisely describe which current, verified working feature of the add-on they are calling out as more unfair than the average combat add-on. (because yes, many add-ons can help you build an advantage against your opponents, which this game is all about btw)

It seems to me that, in its current state, the (combat related part of the) add-on is mostly useful in a 1vX scenario to :
- quickly detect max range snipe spammers inviting themselves to an already outnumbered fight
- quickly recognize high threat (known) players, when they engage you alongside randoms

There seems to be a lot of discussion of whether or not Miat's is good for the game period and not a lot of thought about my experience with Miat's where once (out of a fair number of times) it seemed to alert me to an attack from stealth. I've certainly been successfully ganked, or at least attacked from stealth, without Miat's alerting me numerous times.
Unless there was a very (un)luckily timed attack from a distant bow-boi who never engaged again I don't see any other explanation for the Miat's ping that let me precisely dodge a stealthed attack.

That's why I think there may be a strange confluence of factors that makes the new entrant to combat feature rarely work through stealth. It may take a fair amount of effort to actually replicate.

Honestly, I don't have the energy right now to replicate it nor do I know people who'd likely willing to sit around for hours getting attacked from stealth/invisibility to isolate it. There could be a complicated set of factors that combine in strange ways to result in a strange pattern of not detecting and detecting. I'd hope ZOS could look at their API and figure it out though that may be much easier said than done.

If people want to debate the relative fairness/ethics of Miat's in general I'd hope someone creates a separate post for that.

Edited for clarity and to specify this is more a response to the overall series of responses and not to the most recent response.

Grimlok_S

Nightblades don't seem to understand that many of their actions have audio cues, regardless of their stealth status.

darkblue5

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Nightblades don't seem to understand that many of their actions have audio cues, regardless of their stealth status.

Given that I was playing a magblade against another magblade I'd think I could tell the difference between the usual sound based attack telegraphs and the Miat's audio cue... which is what this is about... nah no way I could do that.

Savos_Saren

Here's the question- why would people knowingly download and/or keep Miats on their Addons? If it's such a controversial addon that's boarderline cheating... why would a legitimate gamer/streamer have it?

"I want to know how many people are nearby... for... um... combat purposes." That's still a garbage excuse. It's not like you're running FTC to see how much damage you did. You're running an addon that let's you know if people are encountering the fight. It's also an Addon that specifically was targeted by ZOS because it gave an unfair advantage.

To top it off, here's what Miat's PVP Alerts says (as of today):

"As far as I know from a very limited testing the notifications features don't work, due to changes on ZOS end. I have no idea if that can be circumvented, nor I have any desire to investigate. The rest of the features work fine."

It's pretty damn sketchy. But if I saw someone using it- I'd also wonder what other fine lines they like to walk. Just sayin'.

Bergzorn

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's the question- why would people knowingly download and/or keep Miats on their Addons?

The Addon has several nice features that don't give you an edge in combat.

Savos_Saren

Bergzorn wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's the question- why would people knowingly download and/or keep Miats on their Addons?

The Addon has several nice features that don't give you an edge in combat.

But it also has features that do give players an edge in combat...

MrSinister213

Savos_Saren wrote: »

But it also has features that do give players an edge in combat...

Thogard, Miat, and several others have already mentioned above how this is untrue so no need for me to expand on this.

I wanted to bring up the point of players like you having a problem with Miats, yet add-ons that ease your zerging experience you don't have a problem with.

Several stay on crown add ons, group ultimate % trackers, ap meters, pvp meters, siege keeps, CyroHud, and many more add ons give advantages of all sorts. If running in a 24 man ball group wasn't easy enough, you have an ultimate tracker add on so the mouth breathers don't even need to verbally communicate strategy and coordinating ults.

Console is inferior in almost every way except add-ons and cheat engine software, two clear cut advantages they do have over PC. Don't get me wrong, in a perfect PC world I would choose none of these PvP add-ons, as many of them lower or totally eliminate several key skill gaps in the game. I guess now that you have faction lock, Miats is once again a topic to divert away from the true issue, the l2p issue.

Davadin

you guys made me Google up "miat esoui".

i thought I'm already happy with BanditUI and their notifications.....

Thogard

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's the question- why would people knowingly download and/or keep Miats on their Addons?

The Addon has several nice features that don't give you an edge in combat.

But it also has features that do give players an edge in combat...

Like what?

I use it to count opponents and allies. Too many streamers will say they’re “small scaling” when in fact there’s plenty of their own alliance mates around them, so they aren’t actually fighting outnumbered.

I use the addon to keep myself honest and to show the real odds to the viewers, and I think most viewers appreciate the honesty of being able to see the difficulty (or easiness) of my fights.

It’s in the top left corner of my screen. The alliance war icons that track keep flips are also useful for anticipating zerg movements without having to pull up the map.

It doesn’t do anything that I couldn’t count visually with my eyes. Cloaked opponents aren’t counted.

Davadin

Thogard wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Here's the question- why would people knowingly download and/or keep Miats on their Addons?

The Addon has several nice features that don't give you an edge in combat.

But it also has features that do give players an edge in combat...

Like what?

I use it to count opponents and allies. Too many streamers will say they’re “small scaling” when in fact there’s plenty of their own alliance mates around them, so they aren’t actually fighting outnumbered.

I use the addon to keep myself honest and to show the real odds to the viewers, and I think most viewers appreciate the honesty of being able to see the difficulty (or easiness) of my fights.

It’s in the top left corner of my screen. The alliance war icons that track keep flips are also useful for anticipating zerg movements without having to pull up the map.

It doesn’t do anything that I couldn’t count visually with my eyes. Cloaked opponents aren’t counted.

any issue with AP meter and/or BanditUI?

I think I'll give it a shot. I don't care about notifications, but those shortcuts without pulling the map is nice.