Thoughts on Necromancer PvP so far?

Imperial_Voice

Im curious what your thoughts on Necro pvp so far are. Personally Ive found magcro to be a lot of fun but stamcro seems to hit like a wet noodle on pvp.

LordTareq

I'm amazed some have already made it to 50 and I have encountered a couple in battlegrounds today. They seem alright, but its hard to tell as people are obviously still learning to play the class.

wheem_ESO

My experience in PvP comes from early days of the PTS (when Battlegrounds actually happened sometimes), but nothing substantial changed for Necromancers since then; just a few nerfs/tweaks to passives and some bug fixes, along with a brand new bug causing Blastbones to do far less damage on live than it's supposed to. With that in mind...Magicka Necromancer's offense is really bad. Ricochet Skull is fairly decent, but all of the other offensive skills have problems.

Blastbones' pathing is bad, and that's compounded by snares, CC, and rough terrain. These issues are greatly reduced for Stamina Necromancers, since they'll generally be casting from melee range, plus have other sources of worthwhile damage output due to being Stamina (and of course the Major Defile helps). The ability is also extremely telegraphed, blockable, and has 7k hp. This leaves it being fairly weak in both small scale and large scale fights, since it'll often either be blocked or light attacked down before it fully assembles itself.

The Skeletal Arcanist's damage is bad (I saw it top out around 1.2k per 2 seconds, and was usually more like 800-1k). On top of that, you can't choose its target, it'll simply attack whoever is closest (and that might even include pets over players, but I didn't get a chance to test that for sure). If you're Magicka, you'll also be better off not morphing the ability from the baseline skill; all that changes is that the attack becomes a 4 meter AOE, which serves no PvP purpose other than to make it weaker against Stamina builds (thanks to widespread Major Evasion) and pets.

Mystic Siphon was cited as an "area denial" ability, but absolutely does not function in that manner. It's virtually impossible to get it to actually land in PvP, and when it did mine was ticking for something like 200 damage (very fast ticks, maybe every 0.5 seconds or so). With damage like that, even if you got it to land 100% of the time (which you absolutely can't), it's still less than half the damage of a single proc'd bleed. And the resource return was less than it cost to cast the skill, so it's not useful for sustain - the only decent thing about the skill in PvP is the +3% damage from having it slotted, which isn't really worth the opportunity cost.

The Boneyard skill might have occasional value if the self-synergy wasn't so finnicky - but as it stands, it's also extremely bleh. You'll probably be able to cheese up some decent BG scoreboard numbers with this + Wall of Elements, but otherwise it's not particularly useful.

Since you have the Skull (or Master Staff + Destructive Clench/Reach, which I figure will be very popular due to the class CC being bad), the Scythe isn't going to be used that often by offensive Magicka builds in PvP, and that's really all of the non-Ultimate offensive skills available to the class. This means that Magicka gets Blastbones + a spammable, and that's about it unless you wanna stick with nerfed Wall of Frost for some added utility. Magicka Necromancers don't have 2 proc'd bleeds, Rending Slashes, the new-and-improved Cleave, etc...to layer on top of those 2 class skills.

All that said, I think Magicka Necromancer has some real potential as a healer/support build. It lacks some of the amazing synergies that Magicka Templar has, and is missing the Warden's "Spiderman Vine," but it might still be quite good. Can't say for sure though, since I didn't get a chance to test it out in that capacity.

Adenoma

The one problem I’ve noticed with dot based stamina mancers is if you want to be a bleed build with 2h/dw then you don’t have a great CC option beyond dizzying swing, which isn’t really super reliable CC.

Iskiab

Adenoma wrote: »

The one problem I’ve noticed with dot based stamina mancers is if you want to be a bleed build with 2h/dw then you don’t have a great CC option beyond dizzying swing, which isn’t really super reliable CC.

Playing a stam Necro but haven’t hit 50. So far I love it.

Yea, 2hander/DW might be tough. I’d choose one and pair it with bow or S&B instead.

Mr_Nobody

Mag necro with the right setup is super strong, as far as solo play goes.

DokThor90

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Mag necro with the right setup is super strong, as far as solo play goes.

What is the right Setup? In my Case I plan to Play IT Like magden/magplar, so defenetily with Solid ddfense

Wing

yeah it plays more like warden / temp / DK

if your coming from something like sorc or NB you might not have a good time, people that main those classes tend not to do well on classes that don't have some sort of unique escape mechanism.

and yeah, too much of it is gimmick, ill probably ending up playing it like my warden, tanky healer / support.

Vapirko

The only thing I noticed is that groups of them really strain performance. That and the flesh atro looks cool on the battlefield.

Thraben

wheem_ESO wrote: »

All that said, I think Magicka Necromancer has some real potential as a healer/support build. It lacks some of the amazing synergies that Magicka Templar has, and is missing the Warden's "Spiderman Vine," but it might still be quite good. Can't say for sure though, since I didn't get a chance to test it out in that capacity.

What I saw from Necrohealers was VERY underwhelming yesterday. Templars, Wardens (hell, even able STAMWARDENS), and MagSorc Purge bots with Matriarch beat them in the support department.

Baphomet

Fought a few yesterday, and I found that my character suddenly vanished in a show of gimmicky visuals which severely obstructed the gameplay.

Also, they can't be good for Cyrodiil performance.

Waffennacht

OMG it's pAy To WiN

katorga

My take so far is that the class mechanics are too wonky, especially the blastbones.

The class kit is way too incomplete compared to other classes: no mobility, no escape, no execute, no gap closer, no passive regen skill.

I haven't tested, but if it doesn't already Blastbones needs to inherit the caster's immunity status for CC, roots, snares

Blastbones needs to have its damage increased a lot to make up for high risk of it being a wasted cast.

It gets hung up on terrain too much, even in pve. On top of the damage bug, I don't even slot it right now.

Ricochet skull needs to always ricochet, not every third cast. (This also seems to happen inconsistently)

The critical hit passive needs to be a base 10% and scale to 50% based on missing health of target.

DeadlyRecluse

The corpse management and 3rd cast stuff is wonky.

Scythe is a crazy cool animation.

Those are my observations from roughly 15 minutes of Necro PvP.

Imperial_Voice

My take so far has been that my Necro brings nothing to the table that my sorceror didn't have already aside from a few heals.

DeadlyRecluse

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

My take so far has been that my Necro brings nothing to the table that my sorceror didn't have already aside from a few heals.

The self-purge alone is a big deal, though. That is going to be a key skill in Necro PvP once we all know what we're doing, I think.

That self purge is like, 1/3 of the entire templar class in PvP, and there's is more usable on stamina dudes than the templar one.

MassiveFumes

lmfao

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

My take so far has been that my Necro brings nothing to the table that my sorceror didn't have already aside from a few heals.

did anyone expect it to be more powerful then magsorc tho? lol

Iskiab

So far here’s my take from what I’ve seen leveling up in BGs:
- Abilities are all really powerful, as I’m coming from other classes they look OP. However, ability costs are crazy high
- To those who say the class lacks certain key abilities. You can find them all in weapon skill lines. What class doesn’t suck in pvp without weapon skill lines?
- survivability is amazing

From the Necros I’ve seen at 50, they ground out their levels and have no idea how to play their class. It’ll take maybe a month for people to get a handle on the class.

Weakness of the class is sustain. So OP abilities that cost a lot but you can’t spam without running out of resources. Sustain races will probably do well with the class. I went Khajit and am doing okay though.

katorga

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

My take so far has been that my Necro brings nothing to the table that my sorceror didn't have already aside from a few heals.

The self-purge alone is a big deal, though. That is going to be a key skill in Necro PvP once we all know what we're doing, I think.

That self purge is like, 1/3 of the entire templar class in PvP, and there's is more usable on stamina dudes than the templar one.

I agree with this 100%. Having the purge cost health puts some thinking into it too.

Having the burst heal debuff you and the purge cost health is a sneaky way to pre-nerf healing.

"repentence" for Ult gain is really nice, especially combined with the passive to get Ult when consuming a corpse. I'm still testing the morph that gives major protection to see how long I can make it last.

I like the transient pet mechanics better than sorc or warden.

10% damage guard from the mender pet is nice.

I like the skills being crimes. Adds flavor and immersion to the PVE side.

Waffennacht

Iskiab wrote: »

So far here’s my take from what I’ve seen leveling up in BGs:
- Abilities are all really powerful, as I’m coming from other classes they look OP. However, ability costs are crazy high
- To those who say the class lacks certain key abilities. You can find them all in weapon skill lines. What class doesn’t suck in pvp without weapon skill lines?
- survivability is amazing

From the Necros I’ve seen at 50, they ground out their levels and have no idea how to play their class. It’ll take maybe a month for people to get a handle on the class.

Weakness of the class is sustain. So OP abilities that cost a lot but you can’t spam without running out of resources. Sustain races will probably do well with the class. I went Khajit and am doing okay though.

Sounds like you're talking about stamina, because you don't get much outta destro line

Because many destro builds infact do not run any destro abilities, maybe 1.

But Stamina gets a WHOLE LOT outta weapon lines.

Again, like Warden, the mag version blows comparing to just about anything else

Imperial_Voice

Waffennacht wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So far here’s my take from what I’ve seen leveling up in BGs:
- Abilities are all really powerful, as I’m coming from other classes they look OP. However, ability costs are crazy high
- To those who say the class lacks certain key abilities. You can find them all in weapon skill lines. What class doesn’t suck in pvp without weapon skill lines?
- survivability is amazing

From the Necros I’ve seen at 50, they ground out their levels and have no idea how to play their class. It’ll take maybe a month for people to get a handle on the class.

Weakness of the class is sustain. So OP abilities that cost a lot but you can’t spam without running out of resources. Sustain races will probably do well with the class. I went Khajit and am doing okay though.

Sounds like you're talking about stamina, because you don't get much outta destro line

Because many destro builds infact do not run any destro abilities, maybe 1.

But Stamina gets a WHOLE LOT outta weapon lines.

Again, like Warden, the mag version blows comparing to just about anything else

I think the only destro build ive seen that actually ran a skill was using reach for the knock down and thats it. Otherwise mag can run mostly grave lord abilities and do fine.


Maybe Im running my stamina build incorrectly because in PvP it just falls flat. Does anyone have a good dw build they could recommend?

danthemann5

After one day in Cyrodiil with my shiny new stamcromancer, my thoughts:

-It plays similarly to stamplar
-The ranged spammable glowing basketballs of doom are nice
-The 10% damage absorption from Spirit Guardian is essential
-Does blastbones actually do anything? It doesn't seem like it.
-The purge costs 1800 health, but so what? With 27k health and a ton of healing, that's nothing.
-Damage seems light, but maybe (probably) that's user error
-Necro seems to be squisher than a similarly built stamplar or warden (I've played both extensively). I expect that to change once I get a better feel for balancing purge, Rally, Vigor, ans Scythe.

That's my 2 cents from one day of PvP.

Imperial_Voice

danthemann5 wrote: »

After one day in Cyrodiil with my shiny new stamcromancer, my thoughts:

-It plays similarly to stamplar
-The ranged spammable glowing basketballs of doom are nice
-The 10% damage absorption from Spirit Guardian is essential
-Does blastbones actually do anything? It doesn't seem like it.
-The purge costs 1800 health, but so what? With 27k health and a ton of healing, that's nothing.
-Damage seems light, but maybe (probably) that's user error
-Necro seems to be squisher than a similarly built stamplar or warden (I've played both extensively). I expect that to change once I get a better feel for balancing purge, Rally, Vigor, ans Scythe.

That's my 2 cents from one day of PvP.

The spammable basketballs of doom are my favorite part

ChunkyCat

Haven’t noticed anything op, but my team always carries me, so wadda I no.

Durham

danthemann5 wrote: »

After one day in Cyrodiil with my shiny new stamcromancer, my thoughts:

-It plays similarly to stamplar
-The ranged spammable glowing basketballs of doom are nice
-The 10% damage absorption from Spirit Guardian is essential
-Does blastbones actually do anything? It doesn't seem like it.
-The purge costs 1800 health, but so what? With 27k health and a ton of healing, that's nothing.
-Damage seems light, but maybe (probably) that's user error
-Necro seems to be squisher than a similarly built stamplar or warden (I've played both extensively). I expect that to change once I get a better feel for balancing purge, Rally, Vigor, ans Scythe.

That's my 2 cents from one day of PvP.

Only thing similar is purge... Stamplar is squishier
I agree with what you said

What I found and I have put the class down in PVP until there are some fixing. First Blast Bones pathing is horrific. Skulls travel to slow imo. I found the class to be a bit underwhelming in open world. The class has awsome abilities but how do you get all of them on your bars. But Im going to put it up to I have not figured out how to play the class properly. But I also did not see many succesful Necro's out there and saw none that even looked OP.

I will say this there were ton of blast bone going into ball groups lastnight...

Imperial_Voice

Blastbones needs a fixing bad. So far its literally useless as it hits for nearly no damage and the pathing is so horrendous that it rarely makes it anyway.

Iskiab

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So far here’s my take from what I’ve seen leveling up in BGs:
- Abilities are all really powerful, as I’m coming from other classes they look OP. However, ability costs are crazy high
- To those who say the class lacks certain key abilities. You can find them all in weapon skill lines. What class doesn’t suck in pvp without weapon skill lines?
- survivability is amazing

From the Necros I’ve seen at 50, they ground out their levels and have no idea how to play their class. It’ll take maybe a month for people to get a handle on the class.

Weakness of the class is sustain. So OP abilities that cost a lot but you can’t spam without running out of resources. Sustain races will probably do well with the class. I went Khajit and am doing okay though.

Sounds like you're talking about stamina, because you don't get much outta destro line

Because many destro builds infact do not run any destro abilities, maybe 1.

But Stamina gets a WHOLE LOT outta weapon lines.

Again, like Warden, the mag version blows comparing to just about anything else

I think the only destro build ive seen that actually ran a skill was using reach for the knock down and thats it. Otherwise mag can run mostly grave lord abilities and do fine.


Maybe Im running my stamina build incorrectly because in PvP it just falls flat. Does anyone have a good dw build they could recommend?

For leveling? Healing’s health based so buffed my health a lot. I apply dots and spam scythe waiting for them to fall into execute range.

At 50 with higher burst no idea if it will work. Probably not but leveling it works well. In under 50 I can survive 1v3.

I’m 2h/S&B and S&B is leveling slow because it’s on my back bar. At 35 it’s okay and will probably get better when I get reverb bash.

Waffennacht

Iskiab wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So far here’s my take from what I’ve seen leveling up in BGs:
- Abilities are all really powerful, as I’m coming from other classes they look OP. However, ability costs are crazy high
- To those who say the class lacks certain key abilities. You can find them all in weapon skill lines. What class doesn’t suck in pvp without weapon skill lines?
- survivability is amazing

From the Necros I’ve seen at 50, they ground out their levels and have no idea how to play their class. It’ll take maybe a month for people to get a handle on the class.

Weakness of the class is sustain. So OP abilities that cost a lot but you can’t spam without running out of resources. Sustain races will probably do well with the class. I went Khajit and am doing okay though.

Sounds like you're talking about stamina, because you don't get much outta destro line

Because many destro builds infact do not run any destro abilities, maybe 1.

But Stamina gets a WHOLE LOT outta weapon lines.

Again, like Warden, the mag version blows comparing to just about anything else

I think the only destro build ive seen that actually ran a skill was using reach for the knock down and thats it. Otherwise mag can run mostly grave lord abilities and do fine.


Maybe Im running my stamina build incorrectly because in PvP it just falls flat. Does anyone have a good dw build they could recommend?

For leveling? Healing’s health based so buffed my health a lot. I apply dots and spam scythe waiting for them to fall into execute range.

At 50 with higher burst no idea if it will work. Probably not but leveling it works well. In under 50 I can survive 1v3.

I’m 2h/S&B and S&B is leveling slow because it’s on my back bar. At 35 it’s okay and will probably get better when I get reverb bash.

Remember under 50 includes all the new and inexperienced players as well

Rhaegar75

am I right to think that StaCro is stronger than MagCRo?

I'm due to level one and I really can't be bothered to roll one and the discover that I need to change it all around and learn a different playstyle when I get to Lv50

Haashhtaag

Can’t form an opinion because stamina morph of blastbones is bugged.

katorga

I'I sort wish the

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

am I right to think that StaCro is stronger than MagCRo?

I'm due to level one and I really can't be bothered to roll one and the discover that I need to change it all around and learn a different playstyle when I get to Lv50

Stam play style is the same on every class. Nothing really to learn. The biggest thing for Necro is learning the corpse mechanics...totally different from any class.

But right now it is as simple as drop bone yard, pummeller ult, scythe 1-2 times - everything drops. Hoover up more ultimate. I keep a skill from as many weapon lines as possible on the bars and level them all as I go along.