Unhappy with Magika Necro :(

katorga

iCaliban wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Stam necro's have too many class skill morphs. No creativity left to mag necros

I Both agree and disagree with this. Stam did cut into magicka's ability options leaving stam with a overwhelming about of build options between their weapon choices and class morphs. Stam was never really given a class all its own, we never really got a actual warrior or hunter class, what we got was weapon skills. Now I want stam builds to get cool new skills to play with too, but there is a flaw in the game's core skill design that makes this opposed directly to magicka builds, and that's the weapon skills. Stam never got much to choose from in their class trees because it was expected that they would rely on the weapon skills. They get not one, not two, not even three, but FOUR weapon skill lines, while magicka get a whopping two weapons, one for dps and one fore healing, which made magicka builds rely on class skills. This kinda worked, it wasn't ideal for either build type, but it worked. Now, with stam cutting into magicka morphs more, the balance has been thrown off. Does that mean they should stop making stam morphs? I don't think so, I think they need to make more magicka weapon options, like dagger and focus, or spell tomes, or even new staff types, ( Though I would greatly prefer the spell tomes or focus options more. ) Just something to kill this old way of doing things without crushing one build type.

A lot of good points here. More magicka weapon or skill lines would be ideal.

Speaking from a game identity standpoint, stamina magic skills make no sense. How do you use stamina to raise a skeleton or summon a ghost? It makes precious little sense. With all the stam morphs of necro skills we are reaching the point where stamina is just green magicka

Remember at release that soft caps made everything essentially a hybrid. Even destro staff scaled off weapon damage. Removing soft caps and creating a hard division between stam and mag broke the fundamental design of the game.

Skander

drakeos99 wrote: »

So heard magika necro gonna bad class due to same as magden while stam necro gonna be bis for end game stuff fix this please

Stamina will always be better then magicka.

BalticBlues

Brrrofski wrote: »

Can we just chill and let it go live first.

No, because it's obvious how MagDens and MacNecros are sharing the same problems.
How many patches did MagDens receive, only getting nerfs, getting even more problematic?
People who preordered Elsweyr are more than worried in getting another problematic MagClass...

IzzyStardust

Well this is disappointing. :-(

IzzyStardust

MellowMagic wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I've never heard a convincing explanation for why Stamina needs to be stronger and more cost effective than Magicka. The imbalance between Magromancer and Stamromancer is just reflective of the larger Stamina/Magicka imbalance that plagues the whole game.

its Melee vs ranged.

Ranged offers more safety

Melee is riskier so the pay off should be more

there are exceptions to this which i am not denying but it is usually agreed on that playing a stam toon is slightly harder then a magic toon.

Oh blah blah. This is such hogwash.

IzzyStardust

Anhedonie wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Can we just chill and let it go live first.

As PvP and PvE aren't separated (as far as skills go) let's see how necro plays in both PvP and PvE before we call for buffs which may break one or the other.

No, because we all know once it hits live, it will take very long time to change. Wardens are still plagued by terrible mechanics and class design overall is garbage. And it's been what, 2 or 3 years?

IF it ever even changes. Compared to stam, magwarden is junk.

If magcro isn’t fixed NOW - it will also be junk- forever.

No bones about it.

Vercingetorix

The combination of managing various DoT duration lengths alongside managing corpses is tedious at best. I found myself using a HA DoT build that uses Skoria and Infallible. I dump a bunch of DoTs on the target and channel away. It kinda works and DoTs do synergize with the Necro's Rapid Rot passive, but the varying duration lengths are annoying to deal with. Corpse positioning is often more trouble than it is worth when trying to damage a target with Siphon.

What if Siphon and its morphs were changed to instead consume any corpse with 5m of you to cast but then place the DoT directly on the target, forming a tether beam between you and the target? While it ticks, any nearby enemies or those who cross the beam would also take the damage. It would make the ability less of a hassle to use but still require reasonable corpse management.

Vercingetorix

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, turning Scythe into an execute would be not bad. I mean steel tornado is omnidirectional, not even in a cone.

I was genuinely shocked that the SCYTHE ability of all things was NOT an execute. That was a golden opportunity to create a flavorful execute for the Necromancer class and they just blew it. They NEED to redesign the scythe to function as an execute - the critical buff passive is NOT enough. I would be ok with them giving us an execute and maybe toning down the critical buff passive a bit to compensate.

Tessitura

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, turning Scythe into an execute would be not bad. I mean steel tornado is omnidirectional, not even in a cone.

I was genuinely shocked that the SCYTHE ability of all things was NOT an execute. That was a golden opportunity to create a flavorful execute for the Necromancer class and they just blew it. They NEED to redesign the scythe to function as an execute - the critical buff passive is NOT enough. I would be ok with them giving us an execute and maybe toning down the critical buff passive a bit to compensate.

I don't like it, it would be trouble some for magicka to take advantage of a Melee execute, especially since they seem to be trying to gear magicka necro to gain damage based on range. I just dont think it would work well. If the managed to make the magicka execute ranged without it being a hassle, then I'd be down.

Vercingetorix

Tessitura wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, turning Scythe into an execute would be not bad. I mean steel tornado is omnidirectional, not even in a cone.

I was genuinely shocked that the SCYTHE ability of all things was NOT an execute. That was a golden opportunity to create a flavorful execute for the Necromancer class and they just blew it. They NEED to redesign the scythe to function as an execute - the critical buff passive is NOT enough. I would be ok with them giving us an execute and maybe toning down the critical buff passive a bit to compensate.

I don't like it, it would be trouble some for magicka to take advantage of a Melee execute, especially since they seem to be trying to gear magicka necro to gain damage based on range. I just dont think it would work well. If the managed to make the magicka execute ranged without it being a hassle, then I'd be down.

Not sure if you've played Dark Souls, but the Moonlight Greatsword emitted arcs of energy that traveled in a straight line for a short distance when the sword was swung that could damage a ranged target. The magicka morph of the scythe could have a similar effect.

Tessitura

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, turning Scythe into an execute would be not bad. I mean steel tornado is omnidirectional, not even in a cone.

I was genuinely shocked that the SCYTHE ability of all things was NOT an execute. That was a golden opportunity to create a flavorful execute for the Necromancer class and they just blew it. They NEED to redesign the scythe to function as an execute - the critical buff passive is NOT enough. I would be ok with them giving us an execute and maybe toning down the critical buff passive a bit to compensate.

I don't like it, it would be trouble some for magicka to take advantage of a Melee execute, especially since they seem to be trying to gear magicka necro to gain damage based on range. I just dont think it would work well. If the managed to make the magicka execute ranged without it being a hassle, then I'd be down.

Not sure if you've played Dark Souls, but the Moonlight Greatsword emitted arcs of energy that traveled in a straight line for a short distance when the sword was swung that could damage a ranged target. The magicka morph of the scythe could have a similar effect.

Magcro already suffers from slow moving projectiles, and trust me, it is a problem for them, another wouldn't be good, but it would be better then a melee cone. I am personally a fan of them getting a dot execute so that they can take advantage of their dot passive, as it stands, magicka doesn't benefit too much from that outside of pve.

But to be fair, any execute is better then no execute.

Excelsus

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, turning Scythe into an execute would be not bad. I mean steel tornado is omnidirectional, not even in a cone.

I was genuinely shocked that the SCYTHE ability of all things was NOT an execute. That was a golden opportunity to create a flavorful execute for the Necromancer class and they just blew it. They NEED to redesign the scythe to function as an execute - the critical buff passive is NOT enough. I would be ok with them giving us an execute and maybe toning down the critical buff passive a bit to compensate.

I understand we need a class execute but lets not take away from the tank toolset, theyve suffered enough. Its bad enough tank necro self heal is tied to hitting an enemy as opposed to dragon blood and dark cloak that can just be cast in a void.

Vahrokh

MellowMagic wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I've never heard a convincing explanation for why Stamina needs to be stronger and more cost effective than Magicka. The imbalance between Magromancer and Stamromancer is just reflective of the larger Stamina/Magicka imbalance that plagues the whole game.

its Melee vs ranged.

Ranged offers more safety

Melee is riskier so the pay off should be more

there are exceptions to this which i am not denying but it is usually agreed on that playing a stam toon is slightly harder then a magic toon.

Too bad, healers DPS buff has a short range. Hence, the healers have to stick shortly behind melee. Hence, "ranged" have to stick almost to melee range. Add the fact that BiS monster set is melee range and...

... you just negated EVERY "range" DPS advantage without giving any plus.

BalticBlues

Tessitura wrote: »

But to be fair, any execute is better then no execute.

True for MacNecros as for MagDens.
Therefore, I vote again for an Execute in the DestoStaff-Impulse skill,
so that both classes could benefit and become at least half-way competitive.

Grandesdar

I'm pretty unhappy with stam necro, how come it is BiS, compared to what class and build and in what? This class feels like carbon copy of warden in so many ways. Also majority of the class skills are mag morphs, yet people complain they use stam to cast necro spells. It's no different than blocking with ice staff consuming magicka instead.

wheem_ESO

Grandesdar wrote: »

I'm pretty unhappy with stam necro, how come it is BiS, compared to what class and build and in what? This class feels like carbon copy of warden in so many ways. Also majority of the class skills are mag morphs, yet people complain they use stam to cast necro spells. It's no different than blocking with ice staff consuming magicka instead.

The majority of the class skills should be Magicka Morphs. For PvE, Stamina builds have 3 weapon skill lines for offense, and 1 for tanking, while Magicka has only 1 for offense and 1 for healing. For PvP, all 4 Stamina-based weapon lines are strong, while Magicka has 2 options which are usually pretty mediocre.

Outside of Master Staff + Clench/Reach for a spammable, many Magicka builds don't even use Destruction Staff abilities in PvP, which will probably be even more true after the upcoming nerf to Wall of Frost. And the only Resto Staff abilities you see with any regularity in Battlegrounds are the ultimate (which is being nerfed pretty harshly) and Ward Ally.

Every Stamina-based class morph takes something away from Magicka, while adding to an already strong Stamina toolkit.

Grandesdar

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Grandesdar wrote: »

I'm pretty unhappy with stam necro, how come it is BiS, compared to what class and build and in what? This class feels like carbon copy of warden in so many ways. Also majority of the class skills are mag morphs, yet people complain they use stam to cast necro spells. It's no different than blocking with ice staff consuming magicka instead.

The majority of the class skills should be Magicka Morphs. For PvE, Stamina builds have 3 weapon skill lines for offense, and 1 for tanking, while Magicka has only 1 for offense and 1 for healing. For PvP, all 4 Stamina-based weapon lines are strong, while Magicka has 2 options which are usually pretty mediocre.

Outside of Master Staff + Clench/Reach for a spammable, many Magicka builds don't even use Destruction Staff abilities in PvP, which will probably be even more true after the upcoming nerf to Wall of Frost. And the only Resto Staff abilities you see with any regularity in Battlegrounds are the ultimate (which is being nerfed pretty harshly) and Ward Ally.

Every Stamina-based class morph takes something away from Magicka, while adding to an already strong Stamina toolkit.

Well, that's a good point I never thought of. I just looked from the perspective of classes, not stam-mag skill variation, like "how would this class differ from stamblade or stamplar if I'm gonna use only one or two class skills?" but you also have a valid point.

Tessitura

BalticBlues wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

But to be fair, any execute is better then no execute.

True for MacNecros as for MagDens.
Therefore, I vote again for an Execute in the DestoStaff-Impulse skill,
so that both classes could benefit and become at least half-way competitive.

Again, I'd much rather be something with range so more magicka classes can benefit fully from it.