Should the PvE ( "old" open world) area difficulty be increased?

Starlock

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

It would lose way more current players if they gave in to the minority that wants to change the open world. Now that is a fact.

This is the wrong game for anyone seeking a challenging overworld.

Please explain further... why you think players would quit the game if the old PvE areas' difficulty was increased? Do you think that this would keep people from playing? I am not saying it should be "un-progressably difficult"

I know you weren't asking me, but as someone who would seriously consider quitting the game if PvE areas all became like, say, Craglorn?

This game is a spin-off from the Elder Scrolls franchise, which is known for producing excellent role playing games that prioritize storytelling, immersion, and lore. For this crowd, our gaming experience is not, as I said earlier, about the combat. We aren't here for difficult gameplay experiences, we are here to experience the game world, it's lore, and tell stories. When content becomes too difficult, we just opt out of it entirely. We quit.

I almost did this when I first started playing the game a few years back. This was in the days before One Tamriel, when there was no battle scaling worldwide and zones had real levels to them. With generic gear, few skills, and no damage shields or healing abilities, the game felt too difficult. I don't know how the new player experience would feel now, but it's probably pretty similar. I've seen what appear to be new players struggle from time to time.

If difficulty were scaled up presently, I wouldn't like it either. When I create characters, I'm not interested in creating "builds" I'm interested in creating characters. I use sets the competitive gamers call "trash" and abilities they claim "no one" uses because it fits the character and is fun. "Build diversity" exists in spades for players like me because overland isn't punishingly difficult. If overland difficultly was upped to Craglorn level, it would restrict what I could create for characters that work for the content I like doing (which is overland, world bosses, and occasionally 4-person dungeons).

DocFrost72

Veteran
Overland
Zones.

Have your cake and eat it too.

Artim_X

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

I rather get a new adventure zone like the current Craglorn with 3 trials, zone mini bosses, 1 arena, and plenty of instanced Craglorn esque group delves with daily quests that can technically be cleared solo, but will be a lot easier with a full 4 man team.

Kolache

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

I would love veteran overland. I hate the fact that every new DLC overland area/questline is pretty much just a visual novel with no significance to combat because it's so painfully easy.

Mik195

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

No, I almost quit because the difficulty was too much when I started. I wandered and ended up in Stormhaven. I was ready to quit because I kept dying and if I want to do something frustrating, I've got a garage that needs cleaning and plenty of challenging real-world work to do. This was supposed to be fun and it wasn't.

Luckily I started a new character, found my bear and being able to hide behind the bear let me learn enough to have fun. But no matter how long I play, I'm never going to be a good player, but ZOS appreciates that I can buy as many crown crates and notable houses as I feel like.

Voice_of_Chronicles

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

Most of you are looking at it from a new player perspective and that's fine. But as a veteran player who clings to the great voice acting... it just doesn't feel right, being able to singlehandedly, without the slightest effort dispatch of a whole lot of bandits and their leaders in no time.

I don't think upping the difficulty by a certain degree will scare new players. Because they, like us who have alot of exp and know when to heal, block, shield etc will come to appreciate eventually, that this change was made to keep rest of the vast world which they haven't explored yet, interesting, entertaining and a tad challenging gameplay-wise, besides being grind with an amazing story.

Also like stated previously, increasing the difficulty of the old world to the level of new content zones, would just offer new players a plain playfield whereas now, they are experiencing a decrease in the "challenges" they face when going back.

FierceSam

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

When I first started playing, these areas presented me with quite a steep learning curve and challenge. If it had been much harder I doubt I would have stayed playing.

Today I find them very easy.

It’s me that has outgrown the challenge, and it’s still there for all the new players coming in.

Not everything should be geared to the top 10%. And there’s plenty out there for those who want more of a challenge.

starkerealm

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

Yeah, the problem with overworld PvE in ESO is, as a new player it's still pretty brutal. For experienced players we can blaze through this stuff like it's nothing.

So, as much as, "more challenging overland content," is, it wouldn't be good for the game.

kargen27

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Right probably, especially since they didn't stay around long enough to see it's greatness and so compared to other MMOs, it shines in every regard...yet it is giving away potential to attract even more people since I don't believe anyone would be turned away if the difficutly in the open world was increased somewhat.
But there are factually ppl turning away because it is too easy and not challenging.
So the game could only benefit from this change.

The overland content was more difficult earlier in the game. Players did complain and some left the game. Your friends that quit should have stayed long enough to start running vet dungeons. I've started soloing a couple and that still offers a challenge. Also plenty of overland bosses that are tough to solo for a lot of builds.

Voice_of_Chronicles

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, the problem with overworld PvE in ESO is, as a new player it's still pretty brutal. For experienced players we can blaze through this stuff like it's nothing.

That is exactly the feeling I have..blazing through it. In Skyrim, Morrowind, Oblivion, I had to decide how and when to attack, be catious not to attract the attention of too many foes, position well and adapt for a fight. This is not the case for someone with exp and cp in ESO. In the overland areas all you need to do, is slot a heal spell/shield, some aoes and keep spamming after you pulled a group of npcs.
+ some ppl already mentioned CPs as a problem. That could be a way of tackling the issue.
+ like someone said before a veteran zone or maybe an instanced more difficult version of the overland areas for people with a certain amount of CP
+ or a choice between normal and vet overland zones.

Thanks for all the replies so far, keep the suggestions coming. I want to quest so badly but I can't get myself to do it, because the NPCs keep dying the moment I stare at them directly (ok... not quite xD)

I wish I could get that feeling back where killing an evil NPC (necromancer, dark knight and their minions etc.) felt like an accomplishmend and an actual deed not only from the storytelling point of view.

mlstevens42_ESO

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

While it would not bother me if the difficulty increased back to the old vet days most would complain just like they did before. Just leave it alone. No need to break anything.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

Yeah nah, leave the difficulty as it is.

I play this game to have fun, and because it’s not a job.

Linaleah

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

like a *** clockwork, these posts show up. NO

absolutely NOT.

not unless this game figures out how to do a better job explaining itself (which may come at a cost of current flexibility)

it is far FAR too easy for an actual NEW player to screw up their build early on and end up struggling through the earliest solo quests. if they make it harder, new players will not have that buffer zone of figuring out the game, becasue they are not going to be able to progress at all.

and because the game is designed like the free roam Elder scrolls game nowadays? ALL of the world has to meet the criteria of being forgiving enough for a new player to figure out what they are doing wrong and get better BEFORE they get discouraged by content slamming them into the ground repeatedly.

kip_silverwolf

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

Back in my day, we had 'Veteran Mode' for overworld, but we couldn't access it until we stuck ol' Molag Bal with a pointy thing & Meridia opened up the path to Cadwell's Silver.

We had no Champion points to aid us in completing these Veteran zones back then - all we had to keep us motivated was the hope of levelling up another Veteran rank. It was a long, hard slog and many came to the forums to complain about how difficult the overland content was, how hard it was to solo, how it needed to be nerfed so adventurers all over Tamriel could complete each zone without being forced to group with another.

Personally I much prefer how it is now. Questing is more relaxing and much more enjoyable. There is harder content for those who enjoy that sort of stuff, but overland PVE is fine as it is.

Vietfox

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

I did that when i switched from pc to ps4. At level 20 i was able to solo some world bosses.
PvE open world is easy AF.

Rygonix

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

Like Doc Frost said, there should be ng+ like zones that lower level players aspire to explore. Some of the most mystical times I had in games was having something to look forward to when I was stronger, more capable.These zones would not be locked from lower level players, but you might want to bring a friend if you hope to persist. Basically these zones would slowly ramp up in difficulty, sort of how the world used to before One Tamriel.

EDIT: Those of you that have played Dragon Quest might know what I'm talking about.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

Already have done a character not using any CP and only using gear from quest rewards or random drops that character got and open world pve content was still too easy.

What do you suggest? level naked and punch mobs to actually have some challenge?

TequilaFire

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

Already have done a character not using any CP and only using gear from quest rewards or random drops that character got and open world pve content was still too easy.

What do you suggest? level naked and punch mobs to actually have some challenge?

Play end game PvE or PvP, you are done with overland.
You can't expect to play the same thing over and over and not get good at it.

Ozby

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas somewhat.

I came from GW2 so when i was in ESO and they said world bosses I was excited and then we got to one and I was like that's a world boss???? pft

Kalgert

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

Currently doing that with my girlfriend, and believe me it is indeed easy still (Although we're doing a Tank-DPS combo with two players who know to a degree what to do, but still).

Outside of a few Open World Bosses that made us advance in the opposite direction (Be it bosses that are in pairs, or undergeared/underequipped in abilities/passives), we aren't meeting any severe adversities that would halt us, or make us think further beyond "Okay, I keep my taunt up and keep things from attacking her while I keep myself alive".
And I don't know about you, but playing in the overland as a DPS character can get rather awkward, with you taking minimal damage but dish out a bunch of damage against anything that isn't a World Boss (Unless you're some freak that manages to be both tanky and dish you a lot of damage)

And if anyone honestly thinks that "A game that is too hard will drive away players", are really giving people not enough credit. Granted, a game that is a stonewall is definitely not gonna sit well with people, but it ain't gonna leave a lot of people satisfied if it doesn't challenge people either.

Solution? Give a sort of difficulty slider, or something like that. As it is right now, the world of the base game/overall ain't all that challenging, and it'd be nice to have something that allows for tailoring the game to your liking.

SydneyGrey

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

The only people who vote "yes" are the people who have forgotten what it's like to be a new player. When you're new, you have zero champion points, zero armor, zero gold to buy armor, and you don't yet know how to play. We can't make the original overland areas so difficult that new players get frustrated because they can't kill anything and die every two seconds, and leave.

Sylvermynx

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

I would quit immediately if the difficulty was harder. I have mega-ping (2k ms +) and that means I'm already playing a game where because of the ping my spells and weapons don't always hit, can't bar swap, heals don't land, cant use pots....

Jeremy

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

Voice_of_Chronicles wrote: »

Over the course of the past years ESO has developed into one of the best, if not THE best MMORPG currently on the market! Congratz to everyone at ZOS and players who have provided valuable feedback and dedication to shape ESO into the game it is today. I have played this game with great joy, mostly because I like to PvP aspect (AvA, BGs) and do a HM dungeon now and then. Yet something that never really got my attention, was the "old world". I remember having to quest throughout the game before "T Unlimited" was released. Even if you enjoy the story being told alot and you love the great voice acting, you will probably notice, that slaying the same kind of enemies (at least very similar mechanic-wise) over and over again, becomes very dull at some point. This has kept me from exploring areas over and over again on my other characters and honestly I think it is a shame! The game world is beautiful... if only it were a bit more challenging so that I would actually have to pay attention to the endless hordes of NPCs I am slaughtering. Elsweyr will surely bring some exciting PvE content, after all we will be hunting dragons, but let me make this very clear: In my humble opinion you are wasting ALOT of the game's potential with regard to replayability and joy in PvE by not making "old world" NPCs more of a challenge! If it is by increasing NPCs dmg by 50% , increasing their aggro range by 100%, implementing a better system of NPC group alarming system or updating NPC mechanics to be more versatile... I really don't care. Just make it so, that questing is more than a grind!

I am aware that there might be people who say that would make the content not beginner friendly enough, but let's be honest, I have encountered a lot of players (including some RL friends) that turned right away from the game because of how repetitive and unchallenging the combat vs NPCs in the open world was.
Also increasing PvE open world difficulty will have ppl grouping and supporting each other more and help shape players up for PvP content and new HMs/trials.

I am very keen on your opinion about this, because this has been on my mind for far too long!

It's way too easy for high level characters. Monsters die in a matter of seconds - if that. It makes questing more boring than it ought to be and the world itself an absolute joke to explore.

So I'd vote yes. This game has trouble finding a middle ground when it comes to challenge. Things tend to be either so easy they're boring to fight or they kill you instantly. World Bosses are really the only thing on the landscape that provide an interesting challenge these days. And that's when solo. If you're in a group - especially a large one - those can be pathetic as well.

Bryath

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas somewhat.

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

I was brand new four months ago. Overland/delve was trivially easy by the time I hit level 20-25ish.
This coming from an old guy who plays most single-player games on Easy due to dying all the time on Normal.
I can only speculate that most people who think the difficulty is fine, don't really enjoy the questing and are just happy to get it done as quickly and easily as possible.
It can't be good for such a huge amount of the games content to be tuned for a players first few hours.
That said! Any change would have to be done very carefully, no-one wants it to take 30 minutes and four near-death experiences to do a blacksmith survey or something. Or to have to beg for help doing quests.
They're probably better off doing nothing unless it could be optional, and I really don't know how feasible that is.

jainiadral

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

This game is brutally hard when you are new. And after the nerfs to everything, it's probably even worse for beginners than when I started. If I'd had any other game to dive into when I was starting on my second go-round here, I'd have probably jumped ship at several points before hitting CP-- first at level 15, then 24, 35, and 40.

I'm all in favor of voluntary debuffs or an opt- in vet instance, but if you raise difficulty by default in the base game, you're destroying the possibility of new people joining. You can't sustain a game on a vet-only population. Eventually, the population will atrophy and die off. You'd be signing this game's death warrant.

Jeremy

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

jainiadral wrote: »

This game is brutally hard when you are new. And after the nerfs to everything, it's probably even worse for beginners than when I started. If I'd had any other game to dive into when I was starting on my second go-round here, I'd have probably jumped ship at several points before hitting CP-- first at level 15, then 24, 35, and 40.

I'm all in favor of voluntary debuffs or an opt- in vet instance, but if you raise difficulty by default in the base game, you're destroying the possibility of new people joining. You can't sustain a game on a vet-only population. Eventually, the population will atrophy and die off. You'd be signing this game's death warrant.

That's what they should do. Just add an optional veteran version of the zone higher level players can quest in. That way they can have an interesting challenge without making it too difficult for newer players in the process.

zyk

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

I'd love to go back to the original vet difficulty which was similar to pre-nerf IC. It would be nice if there were some overland zones and public dungeons with content like that.

I basically quit ESO PVE years ago because it's so easy combat is only a chore.

At launch, 1-50 was as easy as overland content is today. You could complete it without learning any rules of combat by basically making any random build.

Vet content was much more difficult. It could hit you like a wall because nothing one fought 1-50 prepared you for it. I was very angry at first and I recall leaving negative feedback. But then I looked in the mirror realized I didn't actually know how to play ESO. My build was completely awful and I basically used one bar. I learned how to play and had a much better experience playing vet zones than 1-50.

Being forced to learn the game made it 100x better and it took a day or three to do. ESO would be much better with the option of more difficult overland content and it would also open up the game to a broader audience.

zyk

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas greatly!

starkerealm wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

Yeah, the problem with overworld PvE in ESO is, as a new player it's still pretty brutal. For experienced players we can blaze through this stuff like it's nothing.

So, as much as, "more challenging overland content," is, it wouldn't be good for the game.

This is not my experience at all. I have had many rl friends who have tried eso and they all say some form of "I don't really know what I'm doing but it doesn't seem to matter."

Where ESO bites new players is when they hit vet content for the first time without a clue how to play because they were never forced to overcome any challenges.

Morgha_Kul

Agreed, please increase the difficulty in PvE areas somewhat.

I think that open world foes are a tad weak, and I'm playing a very non-optimised hybrid character.

jainiadral

No thanks, PvE difficulty is fine as it is.

.

Kalgert wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Start from scratch on a new virgin no cp account, then come back and discuss.

And if anyone honestly thinks that "A game that is too hard will drive away players", are really giving people not enough credit. Granted, a game that is a stonewall is definitely not gonna sit well with people, but it ain't gonna leave a lot of people satisfied if it doesn't challenge people either.

Solution? Give a sort of difficulty slider, or something like that. As it is right now, the world of the base game/overall ain't all that challenging, and it'd be nice to have something that allows for tailoring the game to your liking.

I'm game for a slider. I'd even like an easier mode to be added to overland.

Making the game more difficult by default will drive ME as a vet away. And that's using all my CP. I don't play games for a challenge. I play them for story and to chillax in an immersive world. I don't play to have an adrenaline rush-- well, maybe if I find the combat enjoyable. But then only in small doses. And only if the game has a gentle learning curve.