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Talking about unhealthy gameplay...
Baphomet
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So, recently wings were labelled as causing "unhealthy gameplay" despite the fact that is has been considered working as intended (although tweaked) for many years. And everybody was fine with the mechanics and knew how to deal with it, but a sudden influx of magicka nightblades that didn't unterstand the counterplay mechanics apparently became so vocal in their failure to counter wings that it is now changed.
Anyways, on to the topic, sorry for rambling. But the thing is, if there is one thing that is truly disruptive for a competitive gameplay it's the hitboxes of the sorc pets / ultimate. They genuinely hamper any proper combat because the targeting is so wonky in this game.
Where's the method to the madness when your target in combat can hide inside the frames of summons? If executed well, they provide almost 100% damage mitigation with a 100% uptime.
That's balanced?
Anyways, on to the topic, sorry for rambling. But the thing is, if there is one thing that is truly disruptive for a competitive gameplay it's the hitboxes of the sorc pets / ultimate. They genuinely hamper any proper combat because the targeting is so wonky in this game.
Where's the method to the madness when your target in combat can hide inside the frames of summons? If executed well, they provide almost 100% damage mitigation with a 100% uptime.
That's balanced?
- The Psijic Order
- TKO
- Dominant Dominion
- The Noore
- TKO
- Dominant Dominion
- The Noore
30
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree that pets are far more problematic for targeting and hitting players than wings.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche14 -
Victor_Blade✭✭✭✭Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...everybody was fine with the mechanics and knew how to deal with it, but a sudden influx of magicka nightblades that didn't unterstand the counterplay mechanics apparently became so vocal in their failure to counter wings that it is now changed.
"Sudden influx of magicka nightblades"...I laughed lol. Is there some new nintendo server where this is happening ?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?7 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
3 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Many Magblades didn't ask for Wings to completely lose their reflect ability.
It might have been healthier to just make 1 or 2 skills in our arsenal non-reflectable.
But that's what Zenimax Overkill Studios likes to do.6 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, recently wings were labelled as causing "unhealthy gameplay" despite the fact that is has been considered working as intended (although tweaked) for many years. And everybody was fine with the mechanics and knew how to deal with it, but a sudden influx of magicka nightblades that didn't unterstand the counterplay mechanics apparently became so vocal in their failure to counter wings that it is now changed.
Anyways, on to the topic, sorry for rambling. But the thing is, if there is one thing that is truly disruptive for a competitive gameplay it's the hitboxes of the sorc pets / ultimate. They genuinely hamper any proper combat because the targeting is so wonky in this game.
Where's the method to the madness when your target in combat can hide inside the frames of summons? If executed well, they provide almost 100% damage mitigation with a 100% uptime.
That's balanced?
They know its ridiculous. They just dont know what to do about it now. If they remove pets people will freak out. If they add a pet cap ppl will freak out. Those people deserve to freak out tho because they are exploiting2 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Many Magblades didn't ask for Wings to completely lose their reflect ability.
It might have been healthier to just make 1 or 2 skills in our arsenal non-reflectable.
But that's what Zenimax Overkill Studios likes to do.
exactly this. Actually I'm really sad wings lose their uniqueness. I main magblade, but play every class in every spec from time to time and DKs without wings?
Thats damn boring, like removing shadow image from nightblade or stun from spear shards... - ohh wait
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Did the Devs say its going to change?
(There's no Dev Tracker on mobile )
Unless you meant this, which isn't really a guaranteed change: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6036788#Comment_6036788Edited by VaranisArano on May 8, 2019 8:11PM1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Did the Devs say its going to change?
(There's no Dev Tracker on mobile )
Unless you meant this, which isn't really a guaranteed change: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6036788#Comment_6036788
Ye that one,well to me after the spam they got on the forum about it something is going to change for sure,either is going to be brekable or is going back to be a stun at worst they will nerf only the silence duration.
Might not guaranteed like you say but they said the same about minor mangle and they changed it and seem like their actually trying to rebalance the NB class in general so im confident that something will change.
Imo they should just add the stun back and call it a day.
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Jabassa✭✭✭I'mVaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Welcome to ESO The game or you can play whatever you want however you want, except in PVP. You have to play stamina there
*sheds tear*1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁Edited by Kidgangster101 on May 9, 2019 7:01AM1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Precisely, the class that predominantly plays as ranged, is now the only one with complete range denial. The predominantly melee class shouldn't have a defense to ranged. Makes total sense /s"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Many Magblades didn't ask for Wings to completely lose their reflect ability.
It might have been healthier to just make 1 or 2 skills in our arsenal non-reflectable.
But that's what Zenimax Overkill Studios likes to do.
Honestly making more abilities non-reflectable would be worse for DK than new wings but.... eh.
For fun's sake here's some suggestions for changes ZOS could have implemented inspired by my experience on magblade.
Maybe ZOS could have made a potion that made all attacks non-reflectable/absorbable. That's fair counterplay TM. Also maybe at least four skills that would prevent ranged attacks from being reflected/absorbed for about five second total.... And an ultimate that prevents blocking and prevents reflections and absorbtions.... is channeled and comes from doing the main quest.... etc etc you get the joke, no?
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darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Yes, there are no counters to cloak and none of the are getting huge damage buffs next patch. *whistles suspiciously trying to hide a pile of Detect Pots behind her back*
And if you ever played magblade you'd know how hard it is to secure a ranged kill without health desyncs, ganks from horse, etc. Magblade will be more melee than ever next patch too
. You too can be invincible at range if you just crouch and not fight. That's why it is called P v (no one) because you'd rather never die. 1 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’ve seen MagSorcs “hide” inside their storm atro ultis in BGs.
It makes me lol while I wait to respawn.1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Yes, there are no counters to cloak and none of the are getting huge damage buffs next patch. *whistles suspiciously trying to hide a pile of Detect Pots behind her back*
And if you ever played magblade you'd know how hard it is to secure a ranged kill without health desyncs, ganks from horse, etc. Magblade will be more melee than ever next patch too. You too can be invincible at range if you just crouch and not fight. That's why it is called P v (no one) because you'd rather never die.
Let me use snipe and then when someone Snipes me back I just cloak to evade.
You cast dark flare I will cloak to evade damage completely.
You want to wrecking blow let me cloak and evade damage completely and now because I'm close I might as well surprise attack and do high damage and stun you in return.
Insert any ranged move here or cast time watch me cloak and I can counter attack you with a guaranteed crit and a stun!
Yep sounds fair lol. And as far as "detect pots" go you mean I have to give up either time out of my day to farm mats or spend gold buying mats just to stop a NB fully? Yep balance right there. Especially considering it has a short range so if you are far from me using ranged attacks it doesn't work. Now if a detect pot worked at the same range as snipe then come back and talk to me. Also if I didn't have to give up a potion that could be useful for me during a fight as well that would be nice.
Oh how ironic NB just got a free detect pot in their toolkit so if I'm a NB I don't need a detect pot? Yeah seems legit lol all the forum blades are the same and the sad thing is the devs cater to you all and you guys say you still get nerfed legit read the patch notes and see who got nerfed.
Dk lost wings and has to double bar a move. That would be like them saying to get grim focus buff back in the day it would need to be double barred.....
Stamsorc got no buff and had wrecking blow damage nerfed so that's a Nerf to them
Templar lost protection from their ultimate and had dark flare nerfed by 37% and jabs didn't get a damage increase so it is now the weakest aoe as all other aoe moves got buffed to be "brought in line with each other" lol
.
Snares reduction hurt mag warden
Sub assault from Stam warden blockable now
Tank side of NB got butchered and it shouldn't have.
Yet none of those even got considered it was worth making them stronger just saying3 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Yes, there are no counters to cloak and none of the are getting huge damage buffs next patch. *whistles suspiciously trying to hide a pile of Detect Pots behind her back*
And if you ever played magblade you'd know how hard it is to secure a ranged kill without health desyncs, ganks from horse, etc. Magblade will be more melee than ever next patch too. You too can be invincible at range if you just crouch and not fight. That's why it is called P v (no one) because you'd rather never die.
Let me use snipe and then when someone Snipes me back I just cloak to evade.
You cast dark flare I will cloak to evade damage completely.
You want to wrecking blow let me cloak and evade damage completely and now because I'm close I might as well surprise attack and do high damage and stun you in return.
Insert any ranged move here or cast time watch me cloak and I can counter attack you with a guaranteed crit and a stun!
Yep sounds fair lol. And as far as "detect pots" go you mean I have to give up either time out of my day to farm mats or spend gold buying mats just to stop a NB fully? Yep balance right there. Especially considering it has a short range so if you are far from me using ranged attacks it doesn't work. Now if a detect pot worked at the same range as snipe then come back and talk to me. Also if I didn't have to give up a potion that could be useful for me during a fight as well that would be nice.
Oh how ironic NB just got a free detect pot in their toolkit so if I'm a NB I don't need a detect pot? Yeah seems legit lol all the forum blades are the same and the sad thing is the devs cater to you all and you guys say you still get nerfed legit read the patch notes and see who got nerfed.
Dk lost wings and has to double bar a move. That would be like them saying to get grim focus buff back in the day it would need to be double barred.....
Stamsorc got no buff and had wrecking blow damage nerfed so that's a Nerf to them
Templar lost protection from their ultimate and had dark flare nerfed by 37% and jabs didn't get a damage increase so it is now the weakest aoe as all other aoe moves got buffed to be "brought in line with each other" lol
.
Snares reduction hurt mag warden
Sub assault from Stam warden blockable now
Tank side of NB got butchered and it shouldn't have.
Yet none of those even got considered it was worth making them stronger just saying
I will not talk about cloak too much because it seem you have 0 idea on what youre talking about.
The example you posted are so random that hardly they make any sense.
Detect pot are a choice not a requirement if you think you are forced to use them that's on you.
Mark target will be used only by zergling and last only 5 second,no decent NB will run it in PvP.
Dk lost wing?50% dmg reduction on every projectile is not a nerf,it's a change.
Tell me where are the counter to wing on live?there is a pot that make projectile unreflectable or magelight dispell and suppress wings?
Aoe or any skill that can deal dmg to the dk remove wings?
It's so hard to understand that cloak is not wing or streak?
Stamsorc got few change like the scaling on streak and the "nerf" to WB is not a nerf to stamsorc since is not a stamsorc skill and many people also run with DW as dmg bar not the 2hand.
Stamsorc need some change i agree but since the most complained class are stamina NB and magsorc,this patch was trying to rebalance the NB kit since is too much oriented in single target and mhe at everything else,magsorc is more well rounded and are easier to balance.
Warden is the best smallscale/bg stamina class in the game a nerf is not the end of the world.
Stamina NB in heavy/bleed was OP in PvP and needed some nerf im sure next patch will still be good.
Jab's got a faster animation btw.
Snare needed a nerf,did you read the forum in past month's no one like the snare meta.
NB lost Major fracture,minor endurance and minor berserk,minor maim and a snare in fear and major defile.Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on May 9, 2019 11:57AM2 -
Waylander07✭✭✭✭When people criticise wings what they don't get is that playing a class that has the weakest ranged attack in the game and no execute is not easy. Try getting up close and personal to a sorc and staying there long enough to do damage with dots and whip before they streak. Wings is what enables us to compete against ranged opponents rather than being reduced to a target dummy. I get that some don't want a long drawn out fight against a mDK but the only way a mDK can kill a competent sorc is in a long drawn out fight.
I picked the sorc class as an example as they have the weakest melee skills but have the best mobility and ranged attack in the game in my opinion.1 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Yes, there are no counters to cloak and none of the are getting huge damage buffs next patch. *whistles suspiciously trying to hide a pile of Detect Pots behind her back*
And if you ever played magblade you'd know how hard it is to secure a ranged kill without health desyncs, ganks from horse, etc. Magblade will be more melee than ever next patch too. You too can be invincible at range if you just crouch and not fight. That's why it is called P v (no one) because you'd rather never die.
Let me use snipe and then when someone Snipes me back I just cloak to evade.
You cast dark flare I will cloak to evade damage completely.
You want to wrecking blow let me cloak and evade damage completely and now because I'm close I might as well surprise attack and do high damage and stun you in return.
Insert any ranged move here or cast time watch me cloak and I can counter attack you with a guaranteed crit and a stun!
Yep sounds fair lol. And as far as "detect pots" go you mean I have to give up either time out of my day to farm mats or spend gold buying mats just to stop a NB fully? Yep balance right there. Especially considering it has a short range so if you are far from me using ranged attacks it doesn't work. Now if a detect pot worked at the same range as snipe then come back and talk to me. Also if I didn't have to give up a potion that could be useful for me during a fight as well that would be nice.
Oh how ironic NB just got a free detect pot in their toolkit so if I'm a NB I don't need a detect pot? Yeah seems legit lol all the forum blades are the same and the sad thing is the devs cater to you all and you guys say you still get nerfed legit read the patch notes and see who got nerfed.
Dk lost wings and has to double bar a move. That would be like them saying to get grim focus buff back in the day it would need to be double barred.....
Stamsorc got no buff and had wrecking blow damage nerfed so that's a Nerf to them
Templar lost protection from their ultimate and had dark flare nerfed by 37% and jabs didn't get a damage increase so it is now the weakest aoe as all other aoe moves got buffed to be "brought in line with each other" lol
.
Snares reduction hurt mag warden
Sub assault from Stam warden blockable now
Tank side of NB got butchered and it shouldn't have.
Yet none of those even got considered it was worth making them stronger just saying
I will not talk about cloak too much because it seem you have 0 idea on what youre talking about.
The example you posted are so random that hardly they make any sense.
Detect pot are a choice not a requirement if you think you are forced to use them that's on you.
Mark target will be used only by zergling and last only 5 second,no decent NB will run it in PvP.
Dk lost wing?50% dmg reduction on every projectile is not a nerf,it's a change.
Tell me where are the counter to wing on live?there is a pot that make projectile unreflectable or magelight dispell and suppress wings?
Aoe or any skill that can deal dmg to the dk remove wings?
It's so hard to understand that cloak is not wing or streak?
Stamsorc got few change like the scaling on streak and the "nerf" to WB is not a nerf to stamsorc since is not a stamsorc skill and many people also run with DW as dmg bar not the 2hand.
Stamsorc need some change i agree but since the most complained class are stamina NB and magsorc,this patch was trying to rebalance the NB kit since is too much oriented in single target and mhe at everything else,magsorc is more well rounded and are easier to balance.
Warden is the best smallscale/bg stamina class in the game a nerf is not the end of the world.
Stamina NB in heavy/bleed was OP in PvP and needed some nerf im sure next patch will still be good.
Jab's got a faster animation btw.
Snare needed a nerf,did you read the forum in past month's no one like the snare meta.
NB lost Major fracture,minor endurance and minor berserk,minor maim and a snare in fear and major defile.
I have zero idea how cloak works? Lol why don't you try doing what I said because I do it all the time on my NB and it's very easy to evade attacks it's not.my fault you don't know how to use your own toolkit.
You know that infinite sustain people say exist for do to keep up wings? That is a CP problem so once again we are nerfing a move due to CP because in non CP you run out of wings. And btw to all the nbs saying they can't perma cloak but dk can perma wing you guys realize they are basically the same cost right? Also dk has nothing good to close the gap against ranged users that is why they used wings. Wanna know how you fight wings? Do some light attacks then use your move the light attacks eat up wings 😉
Stamsorc was nerfed when wrecking blow got hit most stamsorc use 2h as they lack class skills lol.
The Nerf to magwarden is pretty big they lack damage compared to a lot of classes and shalks got nerfed for magic users too. This change is the equivalent of taking cloak away from NB because that was all they were good at. I get no one likes snare but they should have received a buff to other things because they are bad in pve and in pvp outside of snares.
Stam NB needed to be nerfed but ruining them in pve is not the answer or way to do it lol. A very experienced player made a post saying things that he didn't want to happen and everything he said not to do zos did and he had a lot of great changes for the class but here we are with forumblades not even understanding how their own class or others work.
Jabs got a faster animation lol Templars need more than that. You can run into the person and stop it just like wrecking blow I'm so glad nbs don't have channeled moves that stand them in place while casting
And as far as you say you lost all those abilities, all of your moves were overloaded and you had many other class options to slot to get them. you lost berserk but got vulnerability. Your low cost ultimate was overloaded by far compared to any other ultimate of similar cost. You guys also gained 15% damage mitigation. Glad you think marked target is so bad. Since it's bad and no one will run it you guys wouldn't care if magelught and camo Hunter mark you as well and let's lower the cost for them too while we are at it 😁0 -
Zophix✭✭✭I just want to know why wings is considered unhealthy gameplay when it only reflects projectiles and is targeted for its 100% mitigation of projectiles. It seems pretty simple, don't use projectiles... Meanwhile you can just roll-dodge everything and still get the 100% mitigation on projectiles + almost everything else.Edited by Zophix on May 9, 2019 8:09PM0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭I just want to know why wings is considered unhealthy gameplay when it only reflects projectiles and is targeted for its 100% mitigation of projectiles. It seems pretty simple, don't use projectiles... Meanwhile you can just roll-dodge everything and still get the 100% mitigation on projectiles + almost everything else.
Because there are classes that can not function without projectiles?
Lets put aside the fact that melee magblade is unviable (since stamblade eclipses melee magblade in every way) in wrathstone patch, and consider what they have.
1) Reflectable burst skill
2) Reflectable utility skill (cripple)
3) Reflectable execute
If magblades could slot an alternate ability for these three skills then yes, you would have a point of not using projectiles. But there are no alternatives.
Telling magblades to not use projectiles is like telling a DK to become a ranged caster. So many DKs saying they have nothing to counter people at range. But using their own philosophy of what constitutes as a counter, they're blatantly lying.
Just by slotting destro staff, they have:
1) A ranged spammable (as does melee magblades against wings)
2) A cc (as does melee magblade against wings)
3) Light attacks (as does melee magblade against wings)
4) An ultimate (as does melee magblade against wings)
But despite all of this, you simply can not expect a DK with destro staff to kill anything.
It genuinely seems impossible to explain why 'Just slot force pulse/concealed weapon' argument is ridiculous until it gets turn around on DKs.
P.S: This was a melee magblade scenario, if we switch melee magblade to ranged magblade that does have some use cases, it gets countered even harder by wings.
Edited by likecats on May 9, 2019 8:34PM0 -
DreadDaedroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a shame they twisted the original fnction of the skill because they were not able to find any other solution.
0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Tbh, the first time I saw a meteor get reflected....
I was jaw dropped and laughing. It was the coolest thing Id seen a player do. lol
It was my meteor btw. 🤪2 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am on console so the zoo meta isn't stronk yet. Is hard targeting not a thing?-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was hoping you'd talk about werewolves being forced to ninja pull in dungeons to not lose their form when I read the title. That's downright toxic gameplay that is encouraged there.1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Victor_Blade wrote: »Counter wings? Any bad magdk could keep heavy attacking and keep wings up 100% of the time. Soul harvest>fear>merciless could work but even trash dks put their wings up after a soul harvest. Not knowing counter play vs a class who has a skill that completely disables a particular class is unhealthy.
But if you think it was wrong of them then wait for the current version of incap to go live and let's see you not complain when the same karma follows you back.
Other than that, yes the pet sorc issue is a huge problem in pvp lol. Shield + pet stacking op!!!
The counter to old wings was to not have your entire build based around ranged reflectable projectiles.
The counter to the new incap's silence is what? Play stamina?
Good thing then magika NB is full of projectiles and rely on LA alot,if you think slotting force pulse or concealed weapon was enough well....it was not enough
Which the really odd thing, you know?
Because ZOS changed wings, in part due to Magblades complaining about old wings countering most of their toolkit.
And then Incap gets a 3 second hard counter to every magicka build...
?
The incap change is a mistake and they alredy said is going to change so i don't see the problem.
Wing was a problem too and needed a change,i have seen better suggestion on the forum than the one they choose but still.
Wings wasn't a huge problem people never wanted to play against it but we are always told to learn to play against cloak the irony because that is zos baby lol.
As far as wings go there is still another move that prevents "ranged" gameplay and can you guess what move that is? Cloak allows you to completely dodge a ranged move...... Yep fair completely fair because it's on NB of course 😁
Yes, there are no counters to cloak and none of the are getting huge damage buffs next patch. *whistles suspiciously trying to hide a pile of Detect Pots behind her back*
And if you ever played magblade you'd know how hard it is to secure a ranged kill without health desyncs, ganks from horse, etc. Magblade will be more melee than ever next patch too. You too can be invincible at range if you just crouch and not fight. That's why it is called P v (no one) because you'd rather never die.
Let me use snipe and then when someone Snipes me back I just cloak to evade.
You cast dark flare I will cloak to evade damage completely.
You want to wrecking blow let me cloak and evade damage completely and now because I'm close I might as well surprise attack and do high damage and stun you in return.
Insert any ranged move here or cast time watch me cloak and I can counter attack you with a guaranteed crit and a stun!
Yep sounds fair lol. And as far as "detect pots" go you mean I have to give up either time out of my day to farm mats or spend gold buying mats just to stop a NB fully? Yep balance right there. Especially considering it has a short range so if you are far from me using ranged attacks it doesn't work. Now if a detect pot worked at the same range as snipe then come back and talk to me. Also if I didn't have to give up a potion that could be useful for me during a fight as well that would be nice.
Oh how ironic NB just got a free detect pot in their toolkit so if I'm a NB I don't need a detect pot? Yeah seems legit lol all the forum blades are the same and the sad thing is the devs cater to you all and you guys say you still get nerfed legit read the patch notes and see who got nerfed.
Dk lost wings and has to double bar a move. That would be like them saying to get grim focus buff back in the day it would need to be double barred.....
Stamsorc got no buff and had wrecking blow damage nerfed so that's a Nerf to them
Templar lost protection from their ultimate and had dark flare nerfed by 37% and jabs didn't get a damage increase so it is now the weakest aoe as all other aoe moves got buffed to be "brought in line with each other" lol
.
Snares reduction hurt mag warden
Sub assault from Stam warden blockable now
Tank side of NB got butchered and it shouldn't have.
Yet none of those even got considered it was worth making them stronger just saying
I will not talk about cloak too much because it seem you have 0 idea on what youre talking about.
The example you posted are so random that hardly they make any sense.
Detect pot are a choice not a requirement if you think you are forced to use them that's on you.
Mark target will be used only by zergling and last only 5 second,no decent NB will run it in PvP.
Dk lost wing?50% dmg reduction on every projectile is not a nerf,it's a change.
Tell me where are the counter to wing on live?there is a pot that make projectile unreflectable or magelight dispell and suppress wings?
Aoe or any skill that can deal dmg to the dk remove wings?
It's so hard to understand that cloak is not wing or streak?
Stamsorc got few change like the scaling on streak and the "nerf" to WB is not a nerf to stamsorc since is not a stamsorc skill and many people also run with DW as dmg bar not the 2hand.
Stamsorc need some change i agree but since the most complained class are stamina NB and magsorc,this patch was trying to rebalance the NB kit since is too much oriented in single target and mhe at everything else,magsorc is more well rounded and are easier to balance.
Warden is the best smallscale/bg stamina class in the game a nerf is not the end of the world.
Stamina NB in heavy/bleed was OP in PvP and needed some nerf im sure next patch will still be good.
Jab's got a faster animation btw.
Snare needed a nerf,did you read the forum in past month's no one like the snare meta.
NB lost Major fracture,minor endurance and minor berserk,minor maim and a snare in fear and major defile.
I have zero idea how cloak works? Lol why don't you try doing what I said because I do it all the time on my NB and it's very easy to evade attacks it's not.my fault you don't know how to use your own toolkit.
You know that infinite sustain people say exist for do to keep up wings? That is a CP problem so once again we are nerfing a move due to CP because in non CP you run out of wings. And btw to all the nbs saying they can't perma cloak but dk can perma wing you guys realize they are basically the same cost right? Also dk has nothing good to close the gap against ranged users that is why they used wings. Wanna know how you fight wings? Do some light attacks then use your move the light attacks eat up wings 😉
Stamsorc was nerfed when wrecking blow got hit most stamsorc use 2h as they lack class skills lol.
The Nerf to magwarden is pretty big they lack damage compared to a lot of classes and shalks got nerfed for magic users too. This change is the equivalent of taking cloak away from NB because that was all they were good at. I get no one likes snare but they should have received a buff to other things because they are bad in pve and in pvp outside of snares.
Stam NB needed to be nerfed but ruining them in pve is not the answer or way to do it lol. A very experienced player made a post saying things that he didn't want to happen and everything he said not to do zos did and he had a lot of great changes for the class but here we are with forumblades not even understanding how their own class or others work.
Jabs got a faster animation lol Templars need more than that. You can run into the person and stop it just like wrecking blow I'm so glad nbs don't have channeled moves that stand them in place while casting
And as far as you say you lost all those abilities, all of your moves were overloaded and you had many other class options to slot to get them. you lost berserk but got vulnerability. Your low cost ultimate was overloaded by far compared to any other ultimate of similar cost. You guys also gained 15% damage mitigation. Glad you think marked target is so bad. Since it's bad and no one will run it you guys wouldn't care if magelught and camo Hunter mark you as well and let's lower the cost for them too while we are at it 😁
I can tell you i might be not the best player but i know what my NB can do,youre example where so random that hardly i can think you know what cloak can do or not.
the point of this patch for the NB was not to nerf them but to rebalance them and except for the silence i think they did overall a good job.
About Mark target is not that mark target is bad per se but a NB don't have a spot for in on their bar unless they are on the zerg especially after the patch where all the NB buff are moved on other skill or removed like major defile.
mark target will be even too good in a xvs1 situation.
For pve tank NB they just buffed dark cloak again so we will see if they are "ruined".
The extra 15% is great but it need to be stacked and if you fire the bow is lost same if you go out of combat.
if the magika warden after the snare change are really weak they should be buffed but i didn't see any post about warden complaining about it ut i might also have missed them.
About cloak you can evade single target skill but cloak got so many counter in the game that is not even comparable to wing,cloak can be totally negated with the use of one of those counter,you don't need to even slot a specific skill to counter cloak,any class in the game got atleast one skill that work against it.(only warden might have some problem but they can use weapon skill at worst)
BTW Not saying cloak is trash and useless.
About wing the problem was that the DK was able to stay on top of you while also begin immune doing a full rotation on you and if you tried to do some dmg?well you take even more dmg nothing you could do about it.
If i deal dmg to a dk with wings up with force pulse or concealed weapon and im a mageblade nothing change since like 80% of my class kit is negated anyway and i don't have the choice to use magelight dispell and suppress wing for the duration or drink a potion like you can do with cloak.(not even counting AoE that deal dmg and break cloak)
I also said that i have seen better suggestion for wing for example wing reflect only if youre a X meter away from the dk so if youre melee range or really close to the dk you can fight back,this way you could even buff the number of skill that could be reflected by wings since now there is counterplay to it.
Wings where just too good vs some class/build especially mageblade.
Templar might need more change but not on jabs we don't need another aoe that deal *** dmg.
but since i don't play the class so i will not speak too much on it.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on May 10, 2019 12:25AM0
