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Kill stealing really needs to be addressed
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp4 -
Arzharo✭✭Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
lol'd
1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
Oh please, L2P is all I ever hear and I make actual legitimate points about game development.
Explain to me how it discourages skill-based victory. A skilled player understand that risk and reward go hand in hand, and understands how to overcome that by playing. @Thogard knows.
As for removing 3 team... The 3 team design is fine, they probably aren't going to change that now. It's an extreme design change for a very unimportant issue. Players need to pay more attention to what is happening instead of mindlessly potatoing.
And in the current system how do you even begin to enforce that rule? So what happens... The person who does the most damage gets credit? What happens when you fight a tank who burns out on heals, escapes full health, and then dies in the next fight to say a mistep? Should the first person get the credit? Technically you did the most damage to them, even though you didn't kill them. This whole proposal is unenforceable and needlessly complicated.Edited by Cathexis on June 17, 2019 11:49AMThe Tomb of FPS Alteration Magic - Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Praise Malacath.0 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭So buff magicka classes' ability to go toe to toe with stam? Good idea! To me some of the bonuses given to stam made sense pre-gap closers ...0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
Assuming everyone has an gapclose/execute to compete for kill stealing is abit narrow minded. There's a number of classes who not only lack native tools to do that but also the mobility to pressure those sorcs and keep them from kill stealing.
You points might be valid, from a very comfortable perspective of a setup that can kill steal or being within a group composition that is able to counter kill stealing. And here's exactly the problem: basically every match on non top mmr is filled with minimum 50% mag sorcs, BECAUSE countering the kill stealing requires not only far more effort and coordination than doing the kill stealing but in addition is easiest done by another magsorc when not being in a group to rely on.
That's a problem for all those guys playing not on top MMR and not playing mag sorc, and they have every right to feel that way. Kill stealing is not bad per se, but Mages Fury is too much of an outlier and requires far too little effort to apply and far too much to counter.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy2 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every class has access to a range execute and/or gapclose.The Tomb of FPS Alteration Magic - Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Praise Malacath.0 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
Assuming everyone has an gapclose/execute to compete for kill stealing is abit narrow minded. There's a number of classes who not only lack native tools to do that but also the mobility to pressure those sorcs and keep them from kill stealing.
You points might be valid, from a very comfortable perspective of a setup that can kill steal or being within a group composition that is able to counter kill stealing. And here's exactly the problem: basically every match on non top mmr is filled with minimum 50% mag sorcs, BECAUSE countering the kill stealing requires not only far more effort and coordination than doing the kill stealing but in addition is easiest done by another magsorc when not being in a group to rely on.
That's a problem for all those guys playing not on top MMR and not playing mag sorc, and they have every right to feel that way. Kill stealing is not bad per se, but Mages Fury is too much of an outlier and requires far too little effort to apply and far too much to counter.
Countering a stealing mag sorc requires one single player that applies a bit of pressure on that sorc so that he has to shield/heal or break free at the right time. Maybe your 4 man group should finally put away the proc sets and learn how to play properly, cause as far as I have seen you're getting rekt by good teams quite a lot and quite hard.1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
Assuming everyone has an gapclose/execute to compete for kill stealing is abit narrow minded. There's a number of classes who not only lack native tools to do that but also the mobility to pressure those sorcs and keep them from kill stealing.
You points might be valid, from a very comfortable perspective of a setup that can kill steal or being within a group composition that is able to counter kill stealing. And here's exactly the problem: basically every match on non top mmr is filled with minimum 50% mag sorcs, BECAUSE countering the kill stealing requires not only far more effort and coordination than doing the kill stealing but in addition is easiest done by another magsorc when not being in a group to rely on.
That's a problem for all those guys playing not on top MMR and not playing mag sorc, and they have every right to feel that way. Kill stealing is not bad per se, but Mages Fury is too much of an outlier and requires far too little effort to apply and far too much to counter.
no sorry if you can't see 360 degrees around you 100% of the time and if you can't instantly unapply dots to a target (lol) that just had a mage's wrath casted on it by someone on an enemy team and not a sorc on your team it's a l2p issue because every sorc in every bg types in chat "i just used mages wrath on your target!! that is definitely not an execute from another team!!!!" every time they use it on your target, so you know that it isn't an enemy sorc, and if you didn't notice it in chat well, sorry bro you better l2p. also that nb in cloak who just used his execute on your target? heh, shouldn't have tried to kill someone without your detect pot up.
or maybe three teams is dumb (which might be why every other game in existence has two teams) and there's no way to prevent kill stealing in every single situation. no, that definitely couldn't be it.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer2 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭TriangularChicken wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Just had a really easy BG match. Just hanged out in the back with my team of magsorcs as we let the other two teams do all the fighting. This honestly shouldn't be a thing. Making deathmatch be only team vs team would be an easy fix. Just saying
It SHOULD BE A THING.
The only reason it shouldn't be a thing is because the two teams you were fighting were not paying attention. This is a L2P issue.
Nope
What do you mean nope? It should definitely be a thing.
Even if you found a reasonable way to police this (which you really can't), it is entirely a L2P issue. If you don't want you kills stolen by other players, play smarter. Other players will take your kills sometimes, it's going to happen. Kill those players, or don't attack players that will be kill sniped easily.
That's pretty much all there is to it. L2P issue. Honestly the level of entitlement I swear... It's not your kill until you kill it.
"L2P" is pretty much your go-to argument isn't it? And your entitlement rant? It's weak if you think I'm acting entitled because I believe that people should get credit for killing their opponent rather than mindlessly acquiring a kill from placing Mage's Fury on someone. Kill stealing should not be in the game because it discouraging skill-based victory.
My solution would be to remove the 3 team system because it's a bad design.
If a 3rd team sorc casts mage’s fury on your target and you don’t notice and put the target in execute threshold anyway, it’s a basic l2p issue.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, it’s still a l2p issue because of the delay between the cast and the proc of mages fury means your execute will go through first.
If a 3rd team sorc is in free casting range of your target and hits your target with endless fury after you put target in execute range, and the fury proc steals the kill, and you already hit the target with your own execute but that just got absorbed by your targets healing ward and so the sorc’s fury gets the DB, it’s still a l2p issue for not seeing the mag sorc approaching and positioning your character to block the sorc’s LOS on your target.
But if you are:
1. Not putting targets already magefuried into execute range
2. Already running an execute that got countered by ward
3. Notice that mag sorc popped an immov and is CC immune
4. Get flanked by a second third team mag sorc that now has clear LoS on the target
Then gosh golly maybe they deserve the kill.
TBH I find it easier to kill still with killers blade than with mages fury. Only in low MMR where people are so spread out that mag sorc’s have really clear LOS and nobody blocks the mage fury is the kill steal OP.
Assuming everyone has an gapclose/execute to compete for kill stealing is abit narrow minded. There's a number of classes who not only lack native tools to do that but also the mobility to pressure those sorcs and keep them from kill stealing.
You points might be valid, from a very comfortable perspective of a setup that can kill steal or being within a group composition that is able to counter kill stealing. And here's exactly the problem: basically every match on non top mmr is filled with minimum 50% mag sorcs, BECAUSE countering the kill stealing requires not only far more effort and coordination than doing the kill stealing but in addition is easiest done by another magsorc when not being in a group to rely on.
That's a problem for all those guys playing not on top MMR and not playing mag sorc, and they have every right to feel that way. Kill stealing is not bad per se, but Mages Fury is too much of an outlier and requires far too little effort to apply and far too much to counter.
Countering a stealing mag sorc requires one single player that applies a bit of pressure on that sorc so that he has to shield/heal or break free at the right time. Maybe your 4 man group should finally put away the proc sets and learn how to play properly, cause as far as I have seen you're getting rekt by good teams quite a lot and quite hard.
What happens if you're against 2/3/4 sorcs?
I'm not sure who you're playing against but as a Magplar I can quite easily have someone attacking me, dot them up and then target the next player behind and put a few instant cast abilities on them - On my sorc it's no different, a little bit of pressure doesn't do much for it, and if I really need to, I can just streak, turn and carry on from somewhere new.
At the speed this game moves and the fact we don't have cast timers and so on, 4 players can't possibly account for 8 players and as such the 3 team game is bad by design for any rated system, not to mention it promotes weak tactics.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)2 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »The mag sorc execute is currently the weakest execute in the game.
A high MMR player will never die to a mag sorc execute which can be dodged twice and does negligible damage.
Which game u playing lol. The Sorc execute is very powerful in PvP specially in no CP.3 -
Appo✭✭✭This was an issue on DCUO so they changed it so that the kill goes to whoever did the most accumulated damage on the target. Worked wonders on there.1
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But assists give like the same points as kills yes?
If not, then they should0
