Why does this game has a Class / Spec system? Alts and New classes are a Nightmare...

Adam_Chattaway

So i currently play both ESO and FFXIV right now as both games have expansions very soon. I just saw a post about some guy asking for a story skip token etc but tbh to me it's more than that. This game is HUGE and the shere amount of zones and content it has is more than any other mmo i would say ever made. But as an Elder Scrolls game it fails for many reasons such as there should be NO classes at all and we should have a blank char with no skills other than racial maybe and everything we do from lvl 1 is to progress any weapon or spell we find, learn equip and use. Now the problem is when like me you have spent over 1500 on your main class and then a new class comes out which you want to main such as Necro... we have to do that ALL over again, all the shards, books, story, zones everything which is depressing and too far. FFXIV for example lets you make 1 char and change to any class you have or unlock and then re level that class and gear it without having to do anything over again so you only ever have and need 1 char you can grow forever. This is 100% how ESO should have been if not going for the Original ES style.

So all these hours, years and time I've spent on my Templar will be for nothing when the necromancer is out and i switch to that...

Intextio

The only game where there wasn't classes was Skyrim. Morrowind and Oblivion both had classes. I don't know why you think classes are against elder scrolls games. If anything, Skyrim was the outlier.

Universe

So you can pay more!
For example, crown store riding lessons.
Soon it will be for Crown Store Skyshard packs too.
Skill lines may be the next inline.

Adam_Chattaway

Intextio wrote: »

The only game where there wasn't classes was Skyrim. Morrowind and Oblivion both had classes. I don't know why you think classes are against elder scrolls games. If anything, Skyrim was the outlier.

Oblivion did not have classes? it had premade class types which gave you starting skills but that did not stop you picking archer and doing completely different skills did it?

Valkysas154

All for a class change tho i don't think you should be able to change to a new class until at lest 30days after its out.

Adam_Chattaway

sharquez wrote: »

I'm just sorry you typed all that and none of it is ever gonna happen in your wildest dreams. There seems to be so many people on these forums disconnected from plausible reality. Why attempt to spark conversation about changing one game into another when all that's whats in anyone's power is to enjoy them for what they are or leave if they are dissatisfied instead of posting pollution?

Sorry but imo you can't make the biggest grind of a game possible and then make it so you have to redo everything ALL OVER AGAIN taking literally thousands of hours just to be back to where you were on a new class they bring out. The thought of having to redo 3 thousands hours of work because i want to play the new class and main it which was not available since day 1 is *** horrendous to think of. You may like doing every zone for the 6th time but i hell as sure *** don't just because i want to use skills that i should be able to learn via a book and skill up with use.

Adam_Chattaway

Valkysas154 wrote: »

All for a class change tho i don't think you should be able to change to a new class until at lest 30days after its out.

But then you would lose the original class and so on. All they need to do is make your char a blank sheet and the classes switchable like addons. Just like how FFXIV is so you can switch to any class you unlocked and levelled it to all from 1 hub character. In FFXIV when you switch to a new class you must re level from lvl 1 or whatever the job starts at which can be grindy to level but all the story content etc is already done. but in ESO it's even better as all content is scaled so you can switch to a new class and continue where you left off on whatever zone, quest, story and so on. they really dropped the ball making ESO. they should have waited 7 years till now and then looked at how far other mmo's have come and started from there.

Universe

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

All for a class change tho i don't think you should be able to change to a new class until at lest 30days after its out.

But then you would lose the original class and so on. All they need to do is make your char a blank sheet and the classes switchable like addons. Just like how FFXIV is so you can switch to any class you unlocked and levelled it to all from 1 hub character. In FFXIV when you switch to a new class you must re level from lvl 1 or whatever the job starts at which can be grindy to level but all the story content etc is already done. but in ESO it's even better as all content is scaled so you can switch to a new class and continue where you left off on whatever zone, quest, story and so on. they really dropped the ball making ESO. they should have waited 7 years till now and then looked at how far other mmo's have come and started from there.

They will never do this.
It is a complete overhaul of the game which most players will object.
3 more character slots will be available with Elsweyr release, up to 18 maximum character slots.

Dalsinthus

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Intextio wrote: »

The only game where there wasn't classes was Skyrim. Morrowind and Oblivion both had classes. I don't know why you think classes are against elder scrolls games. If anything, Skyrim was the outlier.

Oblivion did not have classes? it had premade class types which gave you starting skills but that did not stop you picking archer and doing completely different skills did it?

Uh yes, but you only leveled up by advancing class skills. It still had a class system.

oxygen_thief

you are right but it will never happen because implementation of this will cause a lot of work. they can only reskin your class if you ask properly.

Ayastigi

This is an L2D (learn to deal) issue. Embrace the grind or you get left behind

ManwithBeard9

Why does every game have to exactly like every other one?

Tasear

I don't support class change tokens but add but sure go ahead with transferring efforts on to new class like skyshards at steep price.

Facefister

Universe wrote: »

So you can pay more!
For example, crown store riding lessons.
Soon it will be for Crown Store Skyshard packs too.
Skill lines may be the next inline.

But I would rather stick to my two mains than making a new character, I would pay for a class change token though.

Sylvermynx

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

Yeah. NSS.

Adam_Chattaway

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. [edited to remove unnecessary baiting] FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

ManwithBeard9

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. Stop being a fanboy and open your *** eyes. FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

If you like it so much, you can keep playing it over there. We'll stay over here with all of our alts. Every game being the same is not a good a thing. Games need to be different to have an identity. Homogenization is not a good thing.

Sylvermynx

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. Stop being a fanboy and open your *** eyes. FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

If you like it so much, you can keep playing it over there. We'll stay over here with all of our alts. Every game being the same is not a good a thing. Games need to be different to have an identity. Homogenization is not a good thing.

In what way is doing the same 3000 hours of content 6x a good thing? Are you honestly telling me you like and prefer this? Seriously think for 5 min of this is truly what you believe then reply.

I honestly prefer this. I thought for your 5 minutes, and yeah. I honestly prefer the way it is now. Since you don't prefer it, how about you find a different game to play?

ManwithBeard9

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. Stop being a fanboy and open your *** eyes. FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

If you like it so much, you can keep playing it over there. We'll stay over here with all of our alts. Every game being the same is not a good a thing. Games need to be different to have an identity. Homogenization is not a good thing.

In what way is doing the same 3000 hours of content 6x a good thing? Are you honestly telling me you like and prefer this? Seriously think for 5 min of this is truly what you believe then reply.

Yes, I like have different characters. I like being able to play different characters with completely different play styles. I like being able to hop from one character to the next and leveling each character as I see fit. I like being able to create a charac Just because you have an OPINION about something, doesn't make it right.

Wa2p

To play the necromancer, or monk, or spellsword, or whatever other classes they come up with. I don't need to do all of the story quests. I don't need to complete 90% of the map to have a functional character. This will be even easier with buying skyshards. I have 13 characters, and I've completed all the story content on of them, done this's and that's for a dew of them because I felt like questing. Other wise, leveling skill points + dungeon skill points, were usually enough. Maybe a few easy skyshards.

Also, they've talked about the complication issues they run into with class change tokens, and basically said it wouldn't happen.

Sylvermynx

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. Stop being a fanboy and open your *** eyes. FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

If you like it so much, you can keep playing it over there. We'll stay over here with all of our alts. Every game being the same is not a good a thing. Games need to be different to have an identity. Homogenization is not a good thing.

Why are you so ignorant to what is better? Do you not hear yourself? In what way is doing the same 3000 hours of content 6x a good thing? Are you honestly telling me you like and prefer this? Seriously think for 5 min of this is truly what you *** believe then reply.

I honestly prefer this. I thought for your 5 minutes, and yeah. I honestly prefer the way it is now. Since you don't prefer it, how about you find a different game to play?

Tell me why you think having all classes based on one global char is a bad idea? Because I can tell you most people would want it as it's a better way forward and ffxiv has proven it. Just because it's not in eso doesn't mean its not better just eso were too lazy and fanboys like you defend them. You cant give any reason other than acting like a fanboy defender of inferior system. Are esocgorums really this cancer?

I like each of my characters as themselves. Each one plays through content in a way that's important for that person. Yes, my characters are PEOPLE in their own right.

[edited to remove baiting commentary]

BTW - I've been playing RPGs since the mid 70s. I've been playing CRPGs since 1985. I spent years in WoW and RIFT. My game life has generally revolved around TES (culminating in ESO) since Arena released in March of 1994 (with some significant years in both WoW and RIFT when TES wasn't "just around the corner").

As far as all classes based on a global character, that's just silly. Each character is different - they do different things, approach combat in different ways, kill things with different spells/skills.

Why do you think a global character setup is a good idea? [edited to remove baiting commentary]

MakeMeUhSamich

Choice is good. Everyone gets what they want.

#ClassChange
#TakeMyMoneyZOS

therift

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If I had a nickel for every entitlement thread in the forums ...

It's not entitlement it's called common sense for the good of the game. Theres a reason FFXIV is the 2nd top mmo there is and no 1 if you consider many from the top have now transferred to it... eso 100% completion on more than 1 char is cancer and doing it everytime theres a new class is insanity literally. Stop being a fanboy and open your *** eyes. FFXIV has the best class system period. I can play the new dancer or gun breaker classes without losing the last 6 years of progress I've done.

If you like it so much, you can keep playing it over there. We'll stay over here with all of our alts. Every game being the same is not a good a thing. Games need to be different to have an identity. Homogenization is not a good thing.

Why are you so ignorant to what is better? Do you not hear yourself? In what way is doing the same 3000 hours of content 6x a good thing? Are you honestly telling me you like and prefer this? Seriously think for 5 min of this is truly what you *** believe then reply.

I honestly prefer this. I thought for your 5 minutes, and yeah. I honestly prefer the way it is now. Since you don't prefer it, how about you find a different game to play?

Tell me why you think having all classes based on one global char is a bad idea? Because I can tell you most people would want it as it's a better way forward and ffxiv has proven it. Just because it's not in eso doesn't mean its not better just eso were too lazy and fanboys like you defend them. You cant give any reason other than acting like a fanboy defender of inferior system. Are esocgorums really this cancer?

I like each of my characters as themselves. Each one plays through content in a way that's important for that person. Yes, my characters are PEOPLE in their own right.

I have zero use for your suggestion. I think you need to go play a different game - this game and its ancestors are based in roleplay. Apparently you have no concept of that metric.

BTW - I've been playing RPGs since the mid 70s. I've been playing CRPGs since 1985. I spent years in WoW and RIFT. My game life has generally revolved around TES (culminating in ESO) since Arena released in March of 1994 (with some significant years in both WoW and RIFT when TES wasn't "just around the corner").

As far as all classes based on a global character, that's just silly. Each character is different - they do different things, approach combat in different ways, kill things with different spells/skills.

Why do you think a global character setup is a good idea? FWIW, I wouldn't touch ffwhatever with a hundred foot pole. Stupid game (in my own particular view of course). If you think ffwhatever is a great game, go play it.

If you think ff is stupid then you have problems buy as for rpg and eso you can be whatever you want it should not be locked on classes then given you the fake illusion sandbox by allowing you to equip heavy as a sorcerer or use a fire staff as a plate warrior etc. There is little class balance in eso and weaving in the combat system is a huge put off fir many of my friends who say it's a *** disgusting mechanic.

You know, you don't have to be here right? You've been nothing but combative and argumentative. Several people have given reasons and explanations as to why a classless system is unwanted in ESO. You have done nothing but attack them. If you like FF14 so much, please, go play it. Enjoy yourself over there. You'll be much happier than attacking people on these forums.

[edited]

You're having these responses because the sole purpose of your thread is a complaint about ESO's fundamental design that you want changed because now you want to play Necromancer exclusively over Templar exclusively, and you want to take your Templar's game progress with you.

There are several ways you could have approached your concern, but you chose the approach that focused solely on what is good for you rather than what is good for ESO.

Perhaps consider reformulating your position along a different idea that helps everyone.

Arzurag

There´s no actual argument against having the possibility to change classes, it´s even better if you can level each class seperately due having to learn a class from scratch so that it´s not too overwhelming. FFXIV really does it right.
Though, such a system doesn´t always fit, in bdo for example, each class is also its own character. Unlike how most western mmos handle it, where the character is basically a blank sheet that gets filled with character-specific informations.

Personally, I would like to see FFXIV´s system in more games because it allows to have much for freedom in terms of chosing a class. You can pick up one, play it until you don´t want to anymore and play another, without switching character,
objectively the best way so far. It could even be done better by tying quests to the first time that you chose a class, so that you get a proper introduction to each.

Anyway, we can only hope that devs take notes and consider such a class system for future mmorpgs.

Adam_Chattaway

Arzurag wrote: »

There´s no actual argument against having the possibility to change classes, it´s even better if you can level each class seperately due having to learn a class from scratch so that it´s not too overwhelming. FFXIV really does it right.
Though, such a system doesn´t always fit, in bdo for example, each class is also its own character. Unlike how most western mmos handle it, where the character is basically a blank sheet that gets filled with character-specific informations.

Personally, I would like to see FFXIV´s system in more games because it allows to have much for freedom in terms of chosing a class. You can pick up one, play it until you don´t want to anymore and play another, without switching character,
objectively the best way so far. It could even be done better by tying quests to the first time that you chose a class, so that you get a proper introduction to each.

Anyway, we can only hope that devs take notes and consider such a class system for future mmorpgs.

Well done grats. the first person to come to my post and speak with common sense and knowledge of other games and systems made to make the genre better and less repetitive.

Girl_Number8

If you like the other better then play that.

I luv ESO and playing all the classes, the build diversity, the beautiful landscapes, and the new content. I am excited to make three new necros and delete some maxed out characters to make some room. The grind and progression is part of the fun, it is what keeps things interesting. Each toon is like building a specialized race car to kill people, fitting my current playstyles.

I am just not happy over some of the nerfs, like dark cloak. For the magblade, it was the only decent burst heal that was a piece of the puzzle for some challenging 1 v X
2 v X fun in open field Cyro....

Though despite the whiners and the game performance, ESO is simply the mmo to play....

[edited to remove baiting commentary]

sharquez

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

I'm just sorry you typed all that and none of it is ever gonna happen in your wildest dreams. There seems to be so many people on these forums disconnected from plausible reality. Why attempt to spark conversation about changing one game into another when all that's whats in anyone's power is to enjoy them for what they are or leave if they are dissatisfied instead of posting pollution?

Sorry but imo you can't make the biggest grind of a game possible and then make it so you have to redo everything ALL OVER AGAIN taking literally thousands of hours just to be back to where you were on a new class they bring out. The thought of having to redo 3 thousands hours of work because i want to play the new class and main it which was not available since day 1 is *** horrendous to think of. You may like doing every zone for the 6th time but i hell as sure *** don't just because i want to use skills that i should be able to learn via a book and skill up with use.

its not thousands of hours by a long shot... It's like a week maybe 2 of dedicated game time to get an alt up and running. I should know I've done it 15 times. Stop lashing out because your suggestion was non viable and people gave you the feed back you requested but didn't want to hear..

Adam_Chattaway

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

If you like the other better then play that.

I luv ESO and playing all the classes, the build diversity, the beautiful landscapes, and the new content. I am excited to make three new necros and delete some maxed out characters to make some room. The grind and progression is part of the fun, it is what keeps things interesting. Each toon is like building a specialized race car to kill people, fitting my current playstyles.

I am just not happy over some of the nerfs, like dark cloak. For the magblade, it was the only decent burst heal that was a piece of the puzzle for some challenging 1 v X
2 v X fun in open field Cyro....

Though despite the whiners and the game performance, ESO is simply the mmo to play....

ESO endgame sucksnin every way possible. FFXIV has a much better community with trials raids and progression based on ever better gear and difficulty. Theres are dozens of trials in extreme and savage modes and raids also. This is all group content. What does eso have? Mainly pvp endgame because the only pve is vet dungeons for no rewards and a couple of raids thay dont compare to wow or ffxiv progression and challenge.

Galwylin

Completely sympathize with the OP. I actually have 15 characters (love me some alts) but only two that have done all the starting zones (well almost both have) with some of the DLC zones left undone. In fact, my quitting and then leveling another main put me behind to the point I'm not sure if I care about following the DLC release schedule as I had planned. I did make a warden and completed Vvardenfell but nothing was done with him since till a recent event got me to go ahead and level him to 50. But there's still the Mage's Guild and Skyshards to consider so he's just going to be a level 50 gimp from here on like several others I have.

The leveling isn't a big issue when we have double experience so often. Its all those additional options. To be honest, IF I really wanted a new character for a main considering what I would have to go through to get all that stuff and just couldn't play my original characters, I would just quit. While something like a necromancer might be fun to mess around with for a while there's no way I will ever repeat that work again. A new class just isn't worth it to me. And really, even if something was available, I wouldn't care for it. I get why others want it and whatever players need should probably be available. But they seem to be taking their time so better get ready to be on the grind train (only to finish when the first nerfs come in for it really making you see red).

ManwithBeard9

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

ESO is better then FFXIV. If you like the other better then play that.

I luv ESO and playing all the classes, the build diversity, the beautiful landscapes, and the new content. I am excited to make three new necros and delete some maxed out characters to make some room. The grind and progression is part of the fun, it is what keeps things interesting. Each toon is like building a specialized race car to kill people, fitting my current playstyles.

I am just not happy over some of the nerfs, like dark cloak. For the magblade, it was the only decent burst heal that was a piece of the puzzle for some challenging 1 v X
2 v X fun in open field Cyro....

Though despite the whiners and the game performance, ESO is simply the mmo to play....

Your argument is lacking because if you played since day one like me then you wouldn't even suggest FFXIV as the better game.

Don't feed the troll. He has had plenty of meals in this thread as it is. Enjoy FFXIV

ESO endgame sucksnin every way possible. FFXIV has a much better community with trials raids and progression based on ever better gear and difficulty. Theres are dozens of trials in extreme and savage modes and raids also. This is all group content. What does eso have? Mainly pvp endgame because the only pve is vet dungeons for no rewards and a couple of raids thay dont compare to wow or ffxiv progression and challenge.

Clearly, ESO is not the game for you.

Kiralyn2000

"Job change" is an interesting feature. But it's a Final Fantasy feature, not a "standard fantasy/MMO feature". There's no reason it should or would be adopted by every game.

(also, you don't need to "grind 1500 hours" for every character you make. You can make a perfectly functional character without 100%'ing it.)