Nightblade Nerf Response.

omgiztim

I dont think NBs need more survivability. other classes need a little less and lower dps, especially Sorc and Dk.

Drako_Ei

templesus wrote: »

Lol imagine complaining about nerfs yet you’re still better than 3 out of the other 4 classes currently in the game.

This is not a nerf, this is a buff for endgame players, having access to 100% combat prayer and orbs, because now you get 5% more penetration, absolutely 0% nerfs.

This is a nerf to all casual players with casual groups

Iskiab

omgiztim wrote: »

I dont think NBs need more survivability. other classes need a little less and lower dps, especially Sorc and Dk.

Nah, it’s the opposite. Everyone who pvp’s is half tank spec, the other half are food.

The real problem is the low TTK making tank specs advantageous. Tanks are not supposed to be able to kill anyone, instead it’s the only way around if you want to survive more then a couple of seconds when you’re attacked.

When was the last time you heard someone say light armour and glass canon specs are OP?

vamp_emily

Muzzick

Drako_Ei wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol imagine complaining about nerfs yet you’re still better than 3 out of the other 4 classes currently in the game.

This is not a nerf, this is a buff for endgame players, having access to 100% combat prayer and orbs, because now you get 5% more penetration, absolutely 0% nerfs.

This is a nerf to all casual players with casual groups

Which is the large majority of players

John_Falstaff

@Drako_Ei , you can't get perfect prayer uptime by and large, and in some content it'll be quite low (vAS). Sure people are going to run Slimecraw, but it's still a downgrade from 1pc Kra'gh + 1pc Slimecraw in such content. Also, on a fully debuffed boss that 5% would make around 300 penetration, which makes it nothing but a good joke.

@vamp_emily , see above.

xMovingTarget

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Drako_Ei , you can't get perfect prayer uptime by and large, and in some content it'll be quite low (vAS). Sure people are going to run Slimecraw, but it's still a downgrade from 1pc Kra'gh + 1pc Slimecraw in such content. Also, on a fully debuffed boss that 5% would make around 300 penetration, which makes it nothing but a good joke.

@vamp_emily , see above.

Who the eff runs 1 kraagh and 1 slimeclaw? I have never seen or heard anyone talk about that setup. It makes no sense either

Kuramas9tails

BuddyAces wrote: »

Stam sorc giggles

I main a Magablde but been playing my StamSorc a lot and I have to say, StamSorc is easier for me in small group content because everything melts a lost faster. My resource management isn't bad either.

John_Falstaff

xMovingTarget wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Drako_Ei , you can't get perfect prayer uptime by and large, and in some content it'll be quite low (vAS). Sure people are going to run Slimecraw, but it's still a downgrade from 1pc Kra'gh + 1pc Slimecraw in such content. Also, on a fully debuffed boss that 5% would make around 300 penetration, which makes it nothing but a good joke.

@vamp_emily , see above.

Who the eff runs 1 kraagh and 1 slimeclaw? I have never seen or heard anyone talk about that setup. It makes no sense either

Well, now you've heard of it. Pretty typical setup for vAS+2 score runs. Here's the top score run by Hodor from beginning of April, video and Liko's build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBZl-GBTJP0

https://imgur.com/jt0OlqI

I think the top score got bumped since April, but pretty sure they run similar setups as monster helms go - 1pc each of Kra'gh, Slimecraw (and/or 1pc Zaan for magicka, maybe). Makes sense too, considering that 2pc helm effects don't do that well there. You've been to Hodor yourself, judging by the signature, you do know what they run. ^^

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

omgiztim wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Just waiting for new trial dummies. We might see some balance DPS wise soon.

And the guy saying that every class should do different amount of DPS and that going for same DPS is not balance...
Same DPS is balance. The way you get there might differ, but same DPS is balance.

Unless everyone can reach the same DPS, you will see the continuation of class stacking as we have now. Only way to combat this is with equal DPS and unique buffs, debuffs or synergies.

If everyone has the same dps to be balanced then they will need the same survivability to be balanced. Therefore, everyone is the same.

Balanced is having offsets and counters to all but not everyone has access to it all. Damage and survivability should go on a sliding scale. More damage equals less survivability and vise versa.

Right now, you have heavy tanks or shielded sorcs doing the same if not more dps than some glass cannons. The game is way off balanced. Too often see a sorc or dk taking on 5-6 players and winning because of high sustain and high dps.

The few skills that help fight against (balance this) like IC or snipe get nerfed because these same players whine because that's what kills them

The game should be designed for group play. Groups depending on a mix of players for dps and survivability working together. Not everyone should be a le to solo everyone else.

I agree but survivability needs to be increased for NBs. The only people who complain about snipe are pvp noobs who haven’t jumped on the survivability bandwagon. Same for NBs being powerful, except add duelers.

As for glass canon specs, there’s no such thing that isn’t a trash pvp build, the other name for them is free AP or potatoes.

No survivors spec outside pure tank/healer gets to survive that broken 3 snipe desync tho. And THATS what people wanted fixed. Dmg, it was fine... desync is what enraged folks.

Dr_Ganknstein

Iskiab wrote: »

omgiztim wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Just waiting for new trial dummies. We might see some balance DPS wise soon.

And the guy saying that every class should do different amount of DPS and that going for same DPS is not balance...
Same DPS is balance. The way you get there might differ, but same DPS is balance.

Unless everyone can reach the same DPS, you will see the continuation of class stacking as we have now. Only way to combat this is with equal DPS and unique buffs, debuffs or synergies.

If everyone has the same dps to be balanced then they will need the same survivability to be balanced. Therefore, everyone is the same.

Balanced is having offsets and counters to all but not everyone has access to it all. Damage and survivability should go on a sliding scale. More damage equals less survivability and vise versa.

Right now, you have heavy tanks or shielded sorcs doing the same if not more dps than some glass cannons. The game is way off balanced. Too often see a sorc or dk taking on 5-6 players and winning because of high sustain and high dps.

The few skills that help fight against (balance this) like IC or snipe get nerfed because these same players whine because that's what kills them

The game should be designed for group play. Groups depending on a mix of players for dps and survivability working together. Not everyone should be a le to solo everyone else.

I agree but survivability needs to be increased for NBs. The only people who complain about snipe are pvp noobs who haven’t jumped on the survivability bandwagon. Same for NBs being powerful, except add duelers.

As for glass canon specs, there’s no such thing that isn’t a trash pvp build, the other name for them is free AP or potatoes.

If they know how to play a glass canon then they will have far more kills then deaths. That spec is about hitting hard and evasion. Not going toe-to-toe mashing steel tornado in a ball group. The only heal I have are from potions and forward momentum and I do well for myself. You sound like one of my grumpy vic

Insco851 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

omgiztim wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Just waiting for new trial dummies. We might see some balance DPS wise soon.

And the guy saying that every class should do different amount of DPS and that going for same DPS is not balance...
Same DPS is balance. The way you get there might differ, but same DPS is balance.

Unless everyone can reach the same DPS, you will see the continuation of class stacking as we have now. Only way to combat this is with equal DPS and unique buffs, debuffs or synergies.

If everyone has the same dps to be balanced then they will need the same survivability to be balanced. Therefore, everyone is the same.

Balanced is having offsets and counters to all but not everyone has access to it all. Damage and survivability should go on a sliding scale. More damage equals less survivability and vise versa.

Right now, you have heavy tanks or shielded sorcs doing the same if not more dps than some glass cannons. The game is way off balanced. Too often see a sorc or dk taking on 5-6 players and winning because of high sustain and high dps.

The few skills that help fight against (balance this) like IC or snipe get nerfed because these same players whine because that's what kills them

The game should be designed for group play. Groups depending on a mix of players for dps and survivability working together. Not everyone should be a le to solo everyone else.

I agree but survivability needs to be increased for NBs. The only people who complain about snipe are pvp noobs who haven’t jumped on the survivability bandwagon. Same for NBs being powerful, except add duelers.

As for glass canon specs, there’s no such thing that isn’t a trash pvp build, the other name for them is free AP or potatoes.

No survivors spec outside pure tank/healer gets to survive that broken 3 snipe desync tho. And THATS what people wanted fixed. Dmg, it was fine... desync is what enraged folks.

Yup, poor server performance was more of the issue and since that realistically can't be fixed they are decreasing the damage. Most decent players just get hit by the first snipe and dodge roll.

evoniee

when another class have something better than us. zos butcher our one and only purpose / strength.
i agree with the post above.
every class should have main strength on it and a trade off.

not to much good pvp player use nb because nb have so much weakness compared to other.
nb only have assassination and damage while other have more balanced and wide kit.

Iskiab

Icky wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

omgiztim wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Just waiting for new trial dummies. We might see some balance DPS wise soon.

And the guy saying that every class should do different amount of DPS and that going for same DPS is not balance...
Same DPS is balance. The way you get there might differ, but same DPS is balance.

Unless everyone can reach the same DPS, you will see the continuation of class stacking as we have now. Only way to combat this is with equal DPS and unique buffs, debuffs or synergies.

If everyone has the same dps to be balanced then they will need the same survivability to be balanced. Therefore, everyone is the same.

Balanced is having offsets and counters to all but not everyone has access to it all. Damage and survivability should go on a sliding scale. More damage equals less survivability and vise versa.

Right now, you have heavy tanks or shielded sorcs doing the same if not more dps than some glass cannons. The game is way off balanced. Too often see a sorc or dk taking on 5-6 players and winning because of high sustain and high dps.

The few skills that help fight against (balance this) like IC or snipe get nerfed because these same players whine because that's what kills them

The game should be designed for group play. Groups depending on a mix of players for dps and survivability working together. Not everyone should be a le to solo everyone else.

I agree but survivability needs to be increased for NBs. The only people who complain about snipe are pvp noobs who haven’t jumped on the survivability bandwagon. Same for NBs being powerful, except add duelers.

As for glass canon specs, there’s no such thing that isn’t a trash pvp build, the other name for them is free AP or potatoes.

If they know how to play a glass canon then they will have far more kills then deaths. That spec is about hitting hard and evasion. Not going toe-to-toe mashing steel tornado in a ball group. The only heal I have are from potions and forward momentum and I do well for myself. You sound like one of my grumpy vic

Insco851 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

omgiztim wrote: »

Kikke wrote: »

Just waiting for new trial dummies. We might see some balance DPS wise soon.

And the guy saying that every class should do different amount of DPS and that going for same DPS is not balance...
Same DPS is balance. The way you get there might differ, but same DPS is balance.

Unless everyone can reach the same DPS, you will see the continuation of class stacking as we have now. Only way to combat this is with equal DPS and unique buffs, debuffs or synergies.

If everyone has the same dps to be balanced then they will need the same survivability to be balanced. Therefore, everyone is the same.

Balanced is having offsets and counters to all but not everyone has access to it all. Damage and survivability should go on a sliding scale. More damage equals less survivability and vise versa.

Right now, you have heavy tanks or shielded sorcs doing the same if not more dps than some glass cannons. The game is way off balanced. Too often see a sorc or dk taking on 5-6 players and winning because of high sustain and high dps.

The few skills that help fight against (balance this) like IC or snipe get nerfed because these same players whine because that's what kills them

The game should be designed for group play. Groups depending on a mix of players for dps and survivability working together. Not everyone should be a le to solo everyone else.

I agree but survivability needs to be increased for NBs. The only people who complain about snipe are pvp noobs who haven’t jumped on the survivability bandwagon. Same for NBs being powerful, except add duelers.

As for glass canon specs, there’s no such thing that isn’t a trash pvp build, the other name for them is free AP or potatoes.

No survivors spec outside pure tank/healer gets to survive that broken 3 snipe desync tho. And THATS what people wanted fixed. Dmg, it was fine... desync is what enraged folks.

Maybe, I don’t recall your name so how can I say? However, more often then not I’ll see groups of glass canon specs get destroyed. Just charge them and they scatter or melt really fast, you’re making it sound like a head on fight is a decision and not something forced on you.

I’ve seen sorcs do okay by streaking away, but death matches reward kills and assist, not a good KvD ratio and they typically have to play too passively to do well. I’ve never seen a glass canon go 20-0 against competent opponents.

Jagdkommando

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

A response to the nightblade nerfs..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsymvcW4WkU&t=1s

These nerfs are being put in to lower the out performing nightblade players who do insanely good dps. I agree that nightblades have been pretty strong for a long time (I do 55k Solo on 6m). I get it.

HOWEVER

These nerfs wont change anything for us out performing nightblades. We will still run in good groups who will give us everything we lost. So all this does is hurt the little guys who are already struggling.

The bar for the average player is very low already. Most people cant even do a 6m Skelle test because they cant resource manage. The average player needs to be made better and NOT worse.

This nerf is both stupid and pointless.



May what ever god you weirdly believe in have mercy on your puging soul.

Druid40 wrote: »

NBs and Sorcs, both stamina and magicka, should both be top DPS/DDs until they are both just as good at healing and tanking as DKs and Templars.

Agree guys with you 100%. Also for all others who say NBs getting all buffs in group... are you serious???? As a end game top stamblade i can say this:

1. Experienced and top-end players, who has raid groups will lose almost nothing.
2. These nerfs means shutdown to LFG system, btw it isnt working at all atm on live, i queue many times as healer role because i know my dps will save the day. But here we have a big problem 90% of time i get random players from 300-500cp average, and i see that they are doing almost no dps in group compared to me. I have 60-70% dps as healer role.... what i want to say not all players are top and have raid groups, most of them just random guys who struggle much with already low dps. ZOS if you need them pay you money, make them feel fun and happy.
3. I wrote too much threads about NBs after 5.0 changes, even they deleted one of my threads, anyway what i want to say, this is my last input about NBs hope you will change some things back from NB skill-line.

Think twice...

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

ProbablePaul

omgiztim wrote: »

This is the thing that is killing this game. Classes should not be close on DPS.

Dks should have horrible dps but great survivability

Warden and templars should have a little better dps but be more about healing and utility with second best survivability.

Sorcs should have the best dps, second best burst and some survivability

NB should have the best burst/second dps and almost no survivability.

Everyone wants all classes to be equal. That is not a balanced game. That is a one class everyone is the same game.

Balances does not mean every class can beat all other classes. Balanced means there is trade off between dps/bust and survivability among the classes.

High in one and low in another or somewhere in-between.

I have played all the classes and have to say Nightblade is the closest to a balanced class. Yes, they do awesome damage, but if caught they are very weak. Yet they are nerfing this class when it is actually the best balanced one.

Mage Sorc is the most off balance class and that is why it is the meta. Way too much survivability with shields and streak. burst/dps slightly too high nut not too bad.

Dks have far too much dps and burst for the class and why they are also the meta.

Please stop trying to make every class the same in all areas.

I agree that we shouldn't make all the classes the same in their performance, but I think a little differently about NBs and Sorcs.

In my experience, the rogue archetypes should be very powerful; highest burst or best single target dps, high utility, very bad aoe dps, low defense and health, but moderate survivability due to their utility. Having low defense and health with high utility means that they can have moderate survivability, if they can manage risk properly.

I see sorcs are the mage archetype, which should always be doing massive aoe dps and good single target dps, and moderate utility, but low defense and health. They should struggle with movement/maintaining distance once the enemy is close, leaving their survivability up to on CC and shields, mostly.

Just for fun...

Templars remind me of clerics, or paladins, high healing, moderate defense both physical and magical, but should be fairly slow moving, and have weak dps. They empower others, and others empower them.

I imagine DKs to be like warriors of sorts, but I haven't really played mine all that much. They seem to be a mixture of a warrior and mage, which to me means they should have high defense, high health, and moderate utility that is useful in responding to enemies, like deflecting attacks, or avoiding them. They should struggle with dealing damage and movement.

kalitoslime

Reapers mark takes relentless focus and fractures places and fear helps us get em closer together for the full dps output also our aoe got a buff so I’ll do RM on the squish fear DB/ST PA/SE for the win. We lost nothing they just changed it around. also the noobs will now spam fear and power extraction or sap they will be fine because they Zerg anyway and pve they get carried. There’s no nerf I’m a main NB only A NB and I see this as a buff Kalitoslyme PS4 NA NB stam 🐱
Bl00dmagic PC NA NB stam

Tessitura

Man, this isn't a nerf at all, not even close, NB is super strong on PTS right now, and casual groups will benefit far more form the NB not dying everytime a aoe hits the group, and if anything, it put them over the top in pvp and might need some changes for that, more then for lack of damage.

thegreatme

Running a Bosmer Stamblade over 500CP, do a lot of soloing, recently upgraded my gear for better survivability than what I used to run and decent enough damage to get me by solo in most cases without too much trouble, and yeah, this seems like a nerf.

-Running normal trial +0 after nerf, one of the only people in the whole group getting 1-shot STRAIGHT out of Rez. Multiple times. With fully repaired armor and heals. Ouch. (at least it was good for a laugh with my group)
-One of the only people in group dying during unavoidable "block to survive" DoTs from bosses. Fun. I'm doing SO MUCH BETTER DPS lying here cold on the floor. Let's hope I don't get 1-hit out of Rez again.
-Self-heals + other heals, dead again.
-DPS suffers because of trying to balance survivability because you can't DPS if you're dead. Which means both suck. Doesn't matter because I die anyway even with better survivability in mind at the cost of better DPS.
-Not doing any DPS because I'm always frickin' dead.

I was less squishy before. I didn't have these problems before the nerf. I definitely have them now.



And playing lowbee NBs? Even more ouch.

Shadow Cloak for only 1 second until Shadow level 40? What was wrong with 2.5 seconds? Its not even worth using now. PvP? Useless, they already have detect potions and magelight for countering that. PvE? By the time my finger's off the ability button for shadow its gone again, useless for sneak attacks and sneak attack bonuses or just dodging past enemies. Certainly can't use it for trespass-thieving without getting a bounty because it doesn't last and just kills magicka reserves instantly. Can't use it to escape guards on thief characters running away. This just makes new NB toons outright painful to play.

If this is to push Necro class, its literally doing the opposite for me, so that's a major fail on ZoS's part if that was their intention. You don't make customers want to pay more by jilting them. That's how you make them want to look at their competitors.

UrbWzrd

omgiztim wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

KatySpirit wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol imagine complaining about nerfs yet you’re still better than 3 out of the other 4 classes currently in the game.

Maybe as a Stamina DPS. As a Magblade though, we're just average at best while being meh healers and lackluster Tanks. If we're going by what a class is best as then no class has any argument to make at all since DK is the best tank, Templar the best Healer, Sorc as the best Magic class, NB as the best Stamina class and Warden as the best support class.

Sounds dull AF in that situation doesn't it?

I strongly agree with this. All the classes need to be given boosts in the areas that they are weak in, instead of just taking shots in the dark to weaken them in the areas they are strongest (which tends to hurt their weak areas far more). DK needs to be lifted up to be better at DPS, Templar needs to be given the skills to make it a stronger tank, etc. It is just boring to make our class choice limit the role we can play.

If you haven’t tried dk dps on pts then I recommend you try it. They’re not at all weak for either mag or stam.

But yes, there are a few standouts. I met a sorc tank once...

Mdk: weak in the case of melee.
SDK: so far weak because lack of a decent spammable.

What I have learned from parses. But they aren't like 20k behind DPS or anything no.

As a stamblade main playing with a melee mag dk on pts for an hour I didn't think that it was weak. Not the best sure, but not weak and defintely a big step in the right direction.


Class spammable or not, stam dk is still one of the stronger stam classes in group. They may not be best in slot but the existing classes are definitely getting closer in dps.

This is the thing that is killing this game. Classes should not be close on DPS.

Dks should have horrible dps but great survivability

Warden and templars should have a little better dps but be more about healing and utility with second best survivability.

Sorcs should have the best dps, second best burst and some survivability

NB should have the best burst/second dps and almost no survivability.

Everyone wants all classes to be equal. That is not a balanced game. That is a one class everyone is the same game.

Balances does not mean every class can beat all other classes. Balanced means there is trade off between dps/bust and survivability among the classes.

High in one and low in another or somewhere in-between.

I have played all the classes and have to say Nightblade is the closest to a balanced class. Yes, they do awesome damage, but if caught they are very weak. Yet they are nerfing this class when it is actually the best balanced one.

Mage Sorc is the most off balance class and that is why it is the meta. Way too much survivability with shields and streak. burst/dps slightly too high nut not too bad.

Dks have far too much dps and burst for the class and why they are also the meta.

Please stop trying to make every class the same in all areas.

THIS!

Why the hell each character should be equal? And why the hell everybody has an excel sheet to play the game?!

Pitty that haters don't understand what a rogue class is all about; hit and run. If you catch him before the run,squeze him, if not, rest in peace. This is what a Nightblade class should be.

Too bad that with Greymoor things became worse than the time you wrote.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've closed this thread as some of its information may no longer be relevant. Please feel free to start a new topic on this subject if you wish to discuss it further.

Thank you for your understanding