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reduce snipe's cast time to 0.75sec
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frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Edika @templesus @frostz417 @Leeched
to answer all of you and also everyone who would love snipe to desapear. i assume the only thing you hate is that snipe appears as the only skill in your death recap. so i have to explain something to you.
the 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th skills that appears in your death recap are the HEAVIEST hit you took during the last fight during which you died.
this doesnt mean that the guy attacking you never use light attacks or any other skill but snipe / ults / anything, it only means that the listed skills HIT HARD.
the 5th and last skill is the only reliable info on the death recap since it is the skill that killed you.
if you want to improve as a player, try to download an addon to help you analyse what killed you exactly.
i understand that you may think i run naked in cyrodiil and bg with only snipe, cloak and incapacitating strike in my bars and that i became emperor once with only those skill in my front bar and an empty backbar tho.
still, snipe is bow's dmg spammable, therefor it is spamed when ppl intent to dmg. i guess you can get that too..
i'd love snipe's cast time to be reduce to 0.5sec and the damage nerfed accordingly so that it never appears again in the death recap and ppl will start to cry about the other skill that will take its place in the death recap...
ps: as for the thread, thank you guys for your testings and the infos you give
I honestly don’t care what you’re opinion is nor do I care for your atrocious assumptions of us. I’ve PVP’d longer than you have so I don’t need some zergling to tell me how to PvP. Nobody’ likes snipe and the nerf is fantastic. The fact that you decided to take the time to give such a comical response and think we’re going to take you seriously is funny in itself.1 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dalsinthus wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.
You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.
Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?
I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)
This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.
I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.
Remove snipe entirely
And then what?
Leave bow as the only weapon skill tree with 4 active, non-ultimate skills? I doubt you mean that, but maybe you do.
Or do you mean delete it and replace it with something? What is that something? I outlined my suggestion above.
Here’s an actual solution. Switch snipe and rapid fire. Snipe can be the ultimate and adjusted accordingly, rapid fire can be a spammable similar to pucturing sweeps. That’s my actual real solution. Tooltips adjusted accordingly.3 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dalsinthus wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.
You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.
Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?
I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)
This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.
I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.
Remove snipe entirely
And then what?
Leave bow as the only weapon skill tree with 4 active, non-ultimate skills? I doubt you mean that, but maybe you do.
Or do you mean delete it and replace it with something? What is that something? I outlined my suggestion above.
Here’s an actual solution. Switch snipe and rapid fire. Snipe can be the ultimate and adjusted accordingly, rapid fire can be a spammable similar to pucturing sweeps. That’s my actual real solution. Tooltips adjusted accordingly.
Thanks for responding and giving a legit suggestion.
I would worry that it would end up like flurry which currently sees little use in pvp or pve. But I'd be fine with (actually supportive of) that if they got the numbers right.
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kalunte✭✭✭✭✭as long as bow have a reliable spammable, everything will fit, either a channeled, a casted or an instant one.
if the dps remains, ppl will complain anyway, even if it does the same dps as any other spammable.Edited by kalunte on May 2, 2019 6:09PM1 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭as long as bow have a reliable spammable, everything will fit, either a channeled, a casted or an instant one.
if the dps remains, ppl will complain anyway, even if it does the same dps as any other spammable.
Yeah there's serious bow hate out there. Some of it is deserved - light attack spammers doing 5k dps in pve dungeons and getting health desynced and insta gibbed in pvp rightfully deserve criticism. But the complaining about people using ranged attacks with a bow - but not with a staff - is kinda insane.4 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭forum commentor wrote: »Can we just remove snipe from the game already?
as an archer this skill is mandatory part of our highest damage skill in the tool kit as a ranged playstyle archer.
if it was deleted it would give us no ability to do decent damage.
just a side note: is it possible people would make threads or comments saying a skill is stupid or bad to have it removed because they don't like that skill being used against them in pvp? i am not saying that is what is happening here in this thread but, i think its possible that it does happen here on the forums in an attempt to destroy bow skills and bow skill line.
the comment i quoted is indeed asking for that skill to be deleted, sadly it does look like i am correct, and if successful it would remove our ability to do decent damage against enemies at range and would be horrible for us ranged players.
please do not remove snipe and please do not be persuaded by these types of requests, because it would be like asking to remove others skills that would cripple their builds and playstyles.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Gilvoth @kalunte
or maybe they bring snipe in line with other skill, in term of risk/reward of using it and dmg done + debuffs it applies so you cant just sit on walls or cloacking in the back of a grp while spamming 9k snipes on ppl while never actually having to figth.
imagine actually having to pvp!
as far as i know player versus player is when i damage another player in order to kill that players character, and just because i am using a bow instead of fighting another player the same exact way they fight or use the weapons or skills they use does not mean i am not doing actual player versus player.
TLDR:
just because i dont use the same exact methods or weapons or choices you use in player versus player fighting, does not mean i am not pvping.
i fight with a bow as a ranged player, just like the sorcerer does and the templar does, they use skills that can damage the enemy from a distance, and if the enemy gets too close we do everything we can to escape that situation and keep the enemy FAR Away so we are not killed because we are not built to fight toe to toe and face to face build like you have built for.
and if you build for toe to toe and face to face fighting then you ALSO need to keep yourself aware of ranged players and build defenses against those types of attacks just like we have to.
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seriously though, let’s remove snipe and replace it with something that takes skill to use.4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly saying all the snipe and NB hate waves are so outdated. I mean they used to be broken maybe year ago but recently I don't remember much problems with snipers outside of de-sync exploit. But de-sync is death-sentence for anybody similar to loading screen. I mean if you hard cc somebody who was out of combat and de-synced, result will be absolutely the same - dead body who were "synced" just to see recap.
Actually this ^Seriously though, let’s remove snipe and replace it with something that takes skill to use.
Give bow decent spammable instead of this casting time nonsense.
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dalsinthus wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.
You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.
Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?
I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)
This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.
I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.
1. I didnt asked You.
2. Looks like You cant tell the difference between those 2 terms.
I mean just lol. I’m done with You.
Good for me. I wont have to explain context of the discussion to the person that dont understand it and despite that participates in that discussion.Edited by Juhasow on May 2, 2019 8:44PM1 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭are you doing anything to protect yourself against ranged damage playstyle classes like templaers and sorcerers ranged damage?
its not just archers casting that kills you in the battlefield.
even castle fights are not won by hand to hand and toe to toe fights.
the entire game has Multiple RANGED damage attacks we have to plan and prepare to fight against.
but here in this thread no one is doing that, they are all demanding that snipe alone and bow alone be destroyed.
thats not balance, thats just prejudiced demands
we all have to build our own counter to what the enemies are doing presently so we stay alive.
Edited by Gilvoth on May 2, 2019 9:04PM2 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭stop trying to destroy snipe
stop trying to destroy our ranged playstyle every single day making request threads to destroy archer playstyle.
nothing wrong with what we have, its been here since 5+ years.
this is really childish and selfish.
..im just kidding
if they reduce the dmg by another 25% and make it so you cant cloak for 10s after sniping someone, then yes im all for it.
This.. you should apply as class rep, I'd give you my vote! Snipe+Cloak = no risk , high reward...exactly how it should NOT be.
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »if you want a 50% reduction and removal of minor defile, this is the suggestion to push lol.
Well let's actually consider how ludicrous that statement actually is. It really, I think, projects the communities insanity surrounding Snipe.
You are saying a 0.75 second cast time should result in a 50% reduction and no minor defile.
Currently Snipe only does 67% more damage than Crushing Weapon. If you reduce Lethal Arrow by 50% and remove defile here is your base skill:
Lethal Arrow: Can be dodged, blocked, reflected, and interrupted. Snares user while casting.
base cost: 2852 stam
base dmg: 618
Cast time: 0.75 seconds
secondary effects: none
Crushing Weapon: Can be dodged, and blocked. Cannot be interrupted or reflected.
base cost: 2715 stam
base dmg: 739
Cast time: instant
secondary effects: heals for 25% of damage done
You are saying a cast-time skill should do less damage than an instant cast skill and have less benefits. This is the insanity that happens when people are upset because of glitches and don't actually consider how cast time versus non-cast time skills should be balanced.
Only stating precedence. Chill out lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭TriangularChicken wrote: »stop trying to destroy snipe
stop trying to destroy our ranged playstyle every single day making request threads to destroy archer playstyle.
nothing wrong with what we have, its been here since 5+ years.
this is really childish and selfish.
..im just kiddingif they reduce the dmg by another 25% and make it so you cant cloak for 10s after sniping someone, then yes im all for it.
This.. you should apply as class rep, I'd give you my vote! Snipe+Cloak = no risk , high reward...exactly how it should NOT be.
Wrong. The players destroying you with snipe are totally invested in damage and evasion. Usually low sustain and healing. It's been forever since I've been ganked.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How do I counter getting hit with 5 snipes at the same time from 2 different cloakblades?
The ability hasn’t functioned correctly since launch and promotes unskilled gameplay relying on sitting in the back of zergs and relying on lag/desyncs to secure kills. It’s time to replace it altogether.Edited by templesus on May 3, 2019 1:10AM3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How do I counter getting hit with 5 snipes at the same time from 2 different cloakblades?
The ability hasn’t functioned correctly since launch and promotes unskilled gameplay relying on sitting in the back of zergs and relying on lag/desyncs to secure kills. It’s time to replace it altogether.
you could say that about any skill0 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How do I counter getting hit with 5 snipes at the same time from 2 different cloakblades?
The ability hasn’t functioned correctly since launch and promotes unskilled gameplay relying on sitting in the back of zergs and relying on lag/desyncs to secure kills. It’s time to replace it altogether.
you could say that about any skill
I’m 100% for archer play styles being viable in pve and pvp but he does have a point. The health desync with this skill is absolutely maddening. I’m convinced that some people know how to glitch it because not every snipe spammer produces this result but those that do sure seem to replicate it whenever you encounter them. You can’t say that about every skill.
But I doubt ZOS has addressed this issue. They just nerfed the damage which makes the skill on par or maybe inferior to crushing weapon. So people will continue to call for more nerfs and hate on “bowtards.”
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KruwosSoul ShrivenDalsinthus wrote: »Dalsinthus wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.
You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.
Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?
I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)
This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.
I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.
Remove snipe entirely
And then what?
Leave bow as the only weapon skill tree with 4 active, non-ultimate skills? I doubt you mean that, but maybe you do.
Or do you mean delete it and replace it with something? What is that something? I outlined my suggestion above.
Here’s an actual solution. Switch snipe and rapid fire. Snipe can be the ultimate and adjusted accordingly, rapid fire can be a spammable similar to pucturing sweeps. That’s my actual real solution. Tooltips adjusted accordingly.
You do realize that if Snipe became an Ult there is a good chance it'll be a high costing one as most people who suggest this idea also say that as well but...it'll mean Snipe will then do even more damage causing you people to cry even more.
In the long run its probably the least favorable solution for those that want snipe gone.
There are a lot of ways to counter snipe, people just need to smarten up and stay more aware.1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make rapid fire a spammable, and make snipe a low to moderate costing ultimate with dmg and effects adjusted1 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭Seriously though, let’s remove snipe and replace it with something that takes skill to use.
Let's do the same with spin to win and we have a deal.Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist2 -
Arwyr✭✭snipe definitely needs to just be reworked to a functional spammable skill. instant cast, lower damage, etc. make it on par with the dps of warden/necromancer's spammables. pvp players would be happy, pve players would be super happy to have a less cumbersome dps skill to weave, best for everyone. necro and warden would still have incentive to keep using their own spammables due to each having benefits from class passives, so no loss there. definitely dont get the bow hate. clearly no one at zos has never seen asiatic archery in action. it is definitely not slow and cumbersome, rather deadly and fast. look up archers using a slavic release technique and then tell me bow skill line should still have a ridiculous cast time spammable.
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Arwyr✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You shan't be receiving what you have asked for
lol probably not, same with stam sorcs getting some attention. we can dream though!
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