reduce snipe's cast time to 0.75sec

kalunte

since the 200ms tweak is proved to be unefficient when weaving correctly and assuming the damage wont be turned back to what it was.
please.

in order to keep the snipe's DPS like it is on live, reduce the snipe's cast time to a proper amount.

frostz417

No

chris211

remove snipe from the game

Juhasow

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

Inig0

chris211 wrote: »

remove snipe from the game

yayayayaya

Dalsinthus

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

Have they said that? If so can you point me to the source for the rationale behind the change?

The patch notes say this:

Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.

But 25% and the global change are not equal. The net is a loss in dps. I have not seen any further explanation.

They've said that they want to remove the health desync issue, but I don't see how that is addressed here.

Bladerunner1

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities.

Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.

There hasn't been a single piece of data posted on this PTS forum that demonstrates how these changes take effect, or if they're even working as intended. If I'm wrong please show the data. So far neither the removal of the 200 ms cool down nor the 100 ms reduced cast time are taking place when weaving light attacks with snipe. If 300 ms = 50 ms in ESO math then the OP is on to something, they need to take off another 300 ms.

There's a 150ms reduction when just spamming Snipe on the PTS, which is nice for people who like to spam snipe... I guess

olsborg

if they reduce the dmg by another 25% and make it so you cant cloak for 10s after sniping someone, then yes im all for it.

Jagdkommando

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

kalunte

ppl have been screening and posting datas about it during last 2weeks, i'm just pointing it another time, hoping that someone in the combat team might see it and do something about it.

if the goal is to nerf the bow, well, i have nothing to say about that, but if the goal is to reduce burst but keep dps (because it becomes faster to cast) then, it's a fail as far as we (players) tryed.


ps: i love anti-snipe ppl's arguments.

Juhasow

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

Dalsinthus

Juhasow wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)

This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.

I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.

Juhasow

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)

This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.

I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.

1. I didnt asked You.
2. Looks like You cant tell the difference between those 2 terms.

Leeched

kalunte wrote: »

ppl have been screening and posting datas about it during last 2weeks, i'm just pointing it another time, hoping that someone in the combat team might see it and do something about it.

if the goal is to nerf the bow, well, i have nothing to say about that, but if the goal is to reduce burst but keep dps (because it becomes faster to cast) then, it's a fail as far as we (players) tryed.


ps: i love anti-snipe ppl's arguments.

Says the snipe spammer - I saw you both in bgs and pvp and literally ALL you do is cloaking and spamming snipe from stealth

kalunte

and it probably wont change after update 22.

still you may not have lived enough to see everything i do beside sniping all around ^^

i'm a bow user in teso since 5 years, i confess, i use snipe as a spammable.

Leeched

I wished ZOS would remove snipe just so people like you would actually have to l2p

frostz417

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)

This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.

I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.

Remove snipe entirely

Dalsinthus

Juhasow wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)

This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.

I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.

1. I didnt asked You.
2. Looks like You cant tell the difference between those 2 terms.

I mean just lol. I’m done with You.

Gilvoth

kalunte wrote: »

and it probably wont change after update 22.

still you may not have lived enough to see everything i do beside sniping all around ^^

i'm a bow user in teso since 5 years, i confess, i use snipe as a spammable.

same here, accept ive been a archer in both real life and on mmo's and all elderscrolls titles now for almost 20 years.
absolutely Nothing to be ashamed of about it and absolutely is valid and does not need deleted.
they even have a elderscrolls God named after stealthing and have bows in not only elderscrolls world but prety much every game ever made thats other worldly adventure.

Minno

if you want a 50% reduction and removal of minor defile, this is the suggestion to push lol.

Toc de Malsvi

Minno wrote: »

if you want a 50% reduction and removal of minor defile, this is the suggestion to push lol.

Well let's actually consider how ludicrous that statement actually is. It really, I think, projects the communities insanity surrounding Snipe.

You are saying a 0.75 second cast time should result in a 50% reduction and no minor defile.

Currently Snipe only does 67% more damage than Crushing Weapon. If you reduce Lethal Arrow by 50% and remove defile here is your base skill:

Lethal Arrow: Can be dodged, blocked, reflected, and interrupted. Snares user while casting.
base cost: 2852 stam
base dmg: 618
Cast time: 0.75 seconds
secondary effects: none

Crushing Weapon: Can be dodged, and blocked. Cannot be interrupted or reflected.
base cost: 2715 stam
base dmg: 739
Cast time: instant
secondary effects: heals for 25% of damage done

You are saying a cast-time skill should do less damage than an instant cast skill and have less benefits. This is the insanity that happens when people are upset because of glitches and don't actually consider how cast time versus non-cast time skills should be balanced.

Toc de Malsvi

I see a lot of people crying loudly about cast time skills(Snipe receiving the brunt of the complaints), but I don't see any of them recommending to you or using themselves a cast time skill in PVE or PVP. The closest thing was the Snipe builds for trials which mainly take advantage of Spider Synergy, this precludes again the risks of using a cast time self snare skill in high end content and that Spider Synergy is available to melee on many fights. It also precludes the changes done to the Spider Synergy.

Even cast time skills that are not interruptable and do not snare you, ie: Flurry, Sweeps, and Uppercut are rarely used and constantly complained about. Yet some how the easiest instant cast light weave model is propped up as what should be the #1 performer in both PVP and PVE. Sure some rotations are hard, but light weaving instant cast skills is not and is not in the least bit punishing while using any cast time skill has significant drawbacks.

I fully agree that the game performs better with instant cast skills, I just don't see a valid complaint about cast time skills over-performing. The only thing that was objectively wrong was the health desync glitch and the only real adjustment was the change in flight time. The cast time change appears to even out in PVE if you have good ping. But in no way does that even out in PVP, its just a huge nerf, you have to be spamming snipe without light attacks to see any real difference which means the only ones not significantly affected are the worst type of gankers.

The only thing that I can see that perhaps was done right is that Uppercut should now deal a little more damage than Snipe. While there are still discrepancies there. No you cannot attack from range with Uppercut, but you also are not snared, cannot be interrupted, and cannot be reflected. Does that mean that Uppercut doesn't have its own weaknesses, no it does not, it just means that they are different and cannot truly be treated as the same just with different ranges.

templesus

Can we just remove snipe from the game already?

Elwendryll

I didn't test snipe but I did test Wrecking Blow. There is no change. Like, Not at all. I tried spamming the ability for 60 seconds, on live and PTS, 50 hits for each, with roughly more than 1.2 seconds between each hit.

So they need to fix this, unless they meant this cooldown they removed is only working when we use a different ability afterward...

Edika

kalunte wrote: »

and it probably wont change after update 22.

still you may not have lived enough to see everything i do beside sniping all around ^^

i'm a bow user in teso since 5 years, i confess, i use snipe as a spammable.

one could live a 1000 years, and all they would see you do is still only cloak and snipe hiding behind a group. Oh and sactter shot, cause abusing broken cc break is top lvl gameplay

kalunte

@Edika @templesus @frostz417 @Leeched

to answer all of you and also everyone who would love snipe to desapear. i assume the only thing you hate is that snipe appears as the only skill in your death recap. so i have to explain something to you.

the 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th skills that appears in your death recap are the HEAVIEST hit you took during the last fight during which you died.

this doesnt mean that the guy attacking you never use light attacks or any other skill but snipe / ults / anything, it only means that the listed skills HIT HARD.

the 5th and last skill is the only reliable info on the death recap since it is the skill that killed you.

if you want to improve as a player, try to download an addon to help you analyse what killed you exactly.

i understand that you may think i run naked in cyrodiil and bg with only snipe, cloak and incapacitating strike in my bars and that i became emperor once with only those skill in my front bar and an empty backbar tho.

still, snipe is bow's dmg spammable, therefor it is spamed when ppl intent to dmg. i guess you can get that too..

i'd love snipe's cast time to be reduce to 0.5sec and the damage nerfed accordingly so that it never appears again in the death recap and ppl will start to cry about the other skill that will take its place in the death recap...



ps: as for the thread, thank you guys for your testings and the infos you give

Leeched

kalunte wrote: »

the 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th skills that appears in your death recap are the HEAVIEST hit you took during the last fight during which you died.

Yeah but those arent YOUR skills in my recap, but some other people ones who attack me while you stay faaaaar behind them in safety and spam snipe...

kookster

Snipe wasn't just reduced to match the time reduction, it was reduced as a nerf because snipe hits too hard for how little of a risk it is to use.

Gilvoth

Leeched wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

the 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th skills that appears in your death recap are the HEAVIEST hit you took during the last fight during which you died.

Yeah but those arent YOUR skills in my recap, but some other people ones who attack me while you stay faaaaar behind them in safety and spam snipe...

as we should, because if we are up close to you in your face with our bow, we will die within a few seconds.
being kept at a distance and hidden is our only defense as ranged archers.
and thats not something new, this has been going on in mmo's now for me for almost 20 years.
im also an archer in real life as well.
and as an archer, if im up in the Bears face with my bow, im a dead man!

Dalsinthus

frostz417 wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Jagdkommando wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Reducing snipe DPS is one of the reasons why ZoS made changes to it so they would basically contradict themselves if they would now change something to keep snipe DPS as it is on live.

You are wrong mate, the main point wasnt to reduce damage per second and bla bla bla...
The main point was to cut incoming burst one shot damage, but for pve players this is really nerf.

Can You tell the difference between terms "main point" and "one of the reasons" ?

I'm sorry but this is not a cogent argument. Where have they said that they wanted to reduce its dps? (Hint: they haven't)

This change is just lazy design that doesn't address the issue with snipe. IMO: the problem with snipe is it is too bursty in pvp and that multiple snipes can be layered to hit simultaneously / cause health desyncs. This needed to be addressed. But instead we get a damage nerf that does not address the desync issue and instead just nerfs bow for both pve and pvp.

I wish the developers would have done a top to bottom rework of the skill to give us a bow spammable: no cast time, lower damage, faster projectile, competitive damage with other instant cast spammables like force pulse. But that would allow bow builds to actually be playable and we can't have that in ESO.

Remove snipe entirely

And then what?

Leave bow as the only weapon skill tree with 4 active, non-ultimate skills? I doubt you mean that, but maybe you do.

Or do you mean delete it and replace it with something? What is that something? I outlined my suggestion above.

Edika

@Gilvoth @kalunte

or maybe they bring snipe in line with other skill, in term of risk/reward of using it and dmg done + debuffs it applies so you cant just sit on walls or cloacking in the back of a grp while spamming 9k snipes on ppl while never actually having to figth.

imagine actually having to pvp!