Dragonknight Changes - My Suggestions

Ryanoxx

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

zParallaxz

Ryanoxx wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is a bad spammable... I still think poison whip will be worse than puncture, heroic or whirlwind blades. Even the new flurry is much better.

MDKs use whip just because there's no other melee magicka skill. Make pierce armor a magicka skill and no DK would ever use whip.

Thats not true, in PvE Stamdks use Noxious Breath as spammable in the current state of Pts. Even if Pierce Armor was a magicka skill there would be no reason to run it. I play MagDk since 2 years and I would not drop Whip. Powerlash provides good damage and even a heal. Whip is not a bad spammable. A Poison Whip would set enemies off balance so stamdks could use the truth set for example.

It is slow, it is dodgeable (telegraphed from the other side of tamriel) It depends of a very unreliable mechanic to do high dmg and a decent heal. Its proc has a cooldown (a very long one and the only one in the whole game), it is very expesive on a class that has problem with sustain. It is used by mDKs just because there's no other option, not because it is good. If elemental weapon was less clunky it would be a nice option, giving you extra magicka, or minor vulnerability/maim to the enemy

Regarding sDKs, the new noxious just do what it has to do, high dmg and applying major fracture, which makes claw hit harder. It seems as a much better option than poison whip will ever be... consider Noxious not only is undodgeable, but it's also quite helpful against NBs.

Flame Lash has gone from a good skill to a crappy skill in all the patches since Morrowind. It lost it free proc (which was not free in the first place since you needed to set the enemy off balance and that costs resources), it lost its stun, it was made dodgeable, it was given a cooldown and, due to a strange way of balancing things on ZoS side, its reach was reduced from 8 mts to 5 (7 if you have Elder Dragon). 5 nerfes in 2 or 3 patches. Oh, it got an increased heal (not very necesary on a class that already has 3 heals in the same line whip is located)

If you say whip is good, then you are playing pre-morrowind, which was a very good patch imho (and I would like to play it too).

On the bright side, whip looks cool, but nothing else.

So, Poison whip doing strong dmg... I don't think so... the sole idea implies to copy mDK playing style and what stam DKs needs is not that. What stam DK needs is a better synergy with weapon lines. Stam DK should be the Man-at-Arms of ESO (it is the Knight, for Talos' sake!!) and not the slow brother Kobra Khan (MotU reference btw)

Indeed the last time I played really active was in Homestead when MagDk was really strong. However, Whip is still a strong spammable. The heal gives a lot survivability even though the uptime isn't as high. For 1vX Flame Lash will still be better than Molten Whip for that reason. Other spammables don't even have the option to deal increased damage when an enemy is set off-balance. In that regard Flame Lash has an advantage. It is correct that it is fairly slow compared to other abilities which could definitly be improved. Spammables are dodgable, Whip isn't a exception. Noxious isn't a good spammable at all in PvP. It is really easy to avoid there isn't even a reason to dodge it. The only reason Noxious is helpful in PvP is because you can get Nbs out of cloak. Also the Passives I mentioned that should be changed would help Whip to do better. Whip is a spammable like Reach, Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon or Surprise Attack and shouldn't be stronger. Surprise Attack is a really strong spammable due to the physical penetration it gives. That doesn't mean though that Whip has to be on the same level as it because it is a completely different playstyle.

The reason flame lash needs to be undodgeable was because it required you to set someone off balance. As soon as you are set off balance by a dk, most competent people will immediately dodgeroll. It is tremendously hard to hit whip on a good stam player, as soon as you cc them they will dodgeroll. Only solution I see to this besides making it undodgeable is providing a passive that sets people off balance. As it is right now molten lash is the better option.

For 1vX Molten Whip isn't a better option. Only for dueling, destro/restro builds and battle grounds. However, I would agree with you, that decent players can easily avoid Dks burst if they aren't in a dueling build. I'd say Flame Lash should stay dodgable but once Power Lash procs this one shouldn't be dodgable.

My bad, I assumed you knew I was referring to power lash being undodgeable after being procced from flame lash. Also, I don’t understand how you can’t live without the seething rage passive from molten, that much spell damage will outperform flame lash when you consider how many procced powerlashes you will miss.

Ryanoxx

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is a bad spammable... I still think poison whip will be worse than puncture, heroic or whirlwind blades. Even the new flurry is much better.

MDKs use whip just because there's no other melee magicka skill. Make pierce armor a magicka skill and no DK would ever use whip.

Thats not true, in PvE Stamdks use Noxious Breath as spammable in the current state of Pts. Even if Pierce Armor was a magicka skill there would be no reason to run it. I play MagDk since 2 years and I would not drop Whip. Powerlash provides good damage and even a heal. Whip is not a bad spammable. A Poison Whip would set enemies off balance so stamdks could use the truth set for example.

It is slow, it is dodgeable (telegraphed from the other side of tamriel) It depends of a very unreliable mechanic to do high dmg and a decent heal. Its proc has a cooldown (a very long one and the only one in the whole game), it is very expesive on a class that has problem with sustain. It is used by mDKs just because there's no other option, not because it is good. If elemental weapon was less clunky it would be a nice option, giving you extra magicka, or minor vulnerability/maim to the enemy

Regarding sDKs, the new noxious just do what it has to do, high dmg and applying major fracture, which makes claw hit harder. It seems as a much better option than poison whip will ever be... consider Noxious not only is undodgeable, but it's also quite helpful against NBs.

Flame Lash has gone from a good skill to a crappy skill in all the patches since Morrowind. It lost it free proc (which was not free in the first place since you needed to set the enemy off balance and that costs resources), it lost its stun, it was made dodgeable, it was given a cooldown and, due to a strange way of balancing things on ZoS side, its reach was reduced from 8 mts to 5 (7 if you have Elder Dragon). 5 nerfes in 2 or 3 patches. Oh, it got an increased heal (not very necesary on a class that already has 3 heals in the same line whip is located)

If you say whip is good, then you are playing pre-morrowind, which was a very good patch imho (and I would like to play it too).

On the bright side, whip looks cool, but nothing else.

So, Poison whip doing strong dmg... I don't think so... the sole idea implies to copy mDK playing style and what stam DKs needs is not that. What stam DK needs is a better synergy with weapon lines. Stam DK should be the Man-at-Arms of ESO (it is the Knight, for Talos' sake!!) and not the slow brother Kobra Khan (MotU reference btw)

Indeed the last time I played really active was in Homestead when MagDk was really strong. However, Whip is still a strong spammable. The heal gives a lot survivability even though the uptime isn't as high. For 1vX Flame Lash will still be better than Molten Whip for that reason. Other spammables don't even have the option to deal increased damage when an enemy is set off-balance. In that regard Flame Lash has an advantage. It is correct that it is fairly slow compared to other abilities which could definitly be improved. Spammables are dodgable, Whip isn't a exception. Noxious isn't a good spammable at all in PvP. It is really easy to avoid there isn't even a reason to dodge it. The only reason Noxious is helpful in PvP is because you can get Nbs out of cloak. Also the Passives I mentioned that should be changed would help Whip to do better. Whip is a spammable like Reach, Force Pulse, Elemental Weapon or Surprise Attack and shouldn't be stronger. Surprise Attack is a really strong spammable due to the physical penetration it gives. That doesn't mean though that Whip has to be on the same level as it because it is a completely different playstyle.

The reason flame lash needs to be undodgeable was because it required you to set someone off balance. As soon as you are set off balance by a dk, most competent people will immediately dodgeroll. It is tremendously hard to hit whip on a good stam player, as soon as you cc them they will dodgeroll. Only solution I see to this besides making it undodgeable is providing a passive that sets people off balance. As it is right now molten lash is the better option.

For 1vX Molten Whip isn't a better option. Only for dueling, destro/restro builds and battle grounds. However, I would agree with you, that decent players can easily avoid Dks burst if they aren't in a dueling build. I'd say Flame Lash should stay dodgable but once Power Lash procs this one shouldn't be dodgable.

My bad, I assumed you knew I was referring to power lash being undodgeable after being procced from flame lash.

I included this change in my list, make sure you check the edits.

Ryanoxx

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

I made some changes after reading your post, please read the edits and give your opinion on them.

Xvorg

Davadin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is a bad spammable... I still think poison whip will be worse than puncture, heroic or whirlwind blades. Even the new flurry is much better.

MDKs use whip just because there's no other melee magicka skill. Make pierce armor a magicka skill and no DK would ever use whip.

Thats not true, in PvE Stamdks use Noxious Breath as spammable in the current state of Pts. Even if Pierce Armor was a magicka skill there would be no reason to run it. I play MagDk since 2 years and I would not drop Whip. Powerlash provides good damage and even a heal. Whip is not a bad spammable. A Poison Whip would set enemies off balance so stamdks could use the truth set for example.

...

Regarding sDKs, the new noxious just do what it has to do, high dmg and applying major fracture, which makes claw hit harder. It seems as a much better option than poison whip will ever be... consider Noxious not only is undodgeable, but it's also quite helpful against NBs.
...

so that's how it is in PTS for sDK?

Nox and claw on same bar with Whip slotted for passive, that's it?

Yup... I don't like it either but what can I do? I have said this plenty of times... I'm really tired of learning to play DK each patch once and again.

I'm not a pro. I cannot afford playing the game 16 hours a day as most of the people that plays here and even with that ZoS punish us.

Xvorg

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

Ryanoxx

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

For me the Molten Whip tool and Grim Focus tool are the same but you have too keep in mind that Molten Whip is Fire Damage and Focus only Magic Damage. Yes the Twilight heal sucks. Breath of Life isn't just a self-heal too and is way stronger... But that doesn't belong too this thread. Sorcs just don't have a reliable heal.

Xvorg

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

For me the Molten Whip tool and Grim Focus tool are the same but you have too keep in mind that Molten Whip is Fire Damage and Focus only Magic Damage. Yes the Twilight heal sucks. Breath of Life isn't just a self-heal too and is way stronger... But that doesn't belong too this thread. Sorcs just don't have a reliable heal.

Hmmm, my stam sorc on PvP heals for 5k, and that's 3 guys at the same time. It doesn't suck at all considering that the matriarch also do dmg.

BoL is just a heal. It doesn't have a pet associated. If you want a TM healing as a templar level, then you should kiss good bye the Matriarch (and the Clanfear as well)

IMHO the heal is OK.

Regarding flame dmg in this game, it sucks. Not much as poison dmg, but it sucks anyway. It suck even more in a DK who doesn't have a passive that increaes its dmg. It sucks because poison and flame dmg are the only statuses that have no debuff associated (just a lame passive in the ardent flame line). It sucks because it pigeoholes you into building in certain way, and that playing style is not effective.
On a magblade, grim focus is great because all mageblade skills are magic dmg. That allows you to use a set like WarMaiden. On a DK flame dmg sucks because the best support skills are not flame dmg (with the exception of talons and flame reach). In fact, a lightning staff is more useful on a DK since it has a chance to proc concussion and set enemy off balance through blockade. Not to mention it increases AoE dmg (making Inhale a better skill).

DKs have been overnerfed all these years. One buff (which was not even the strongest one) to wings and here we are again asking for nerfs to DKs. I wish some day ZoS take the right decision deleting the class.

Ryanoxx

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

For me the Molten Whip tool and Grim Focus tool are the same but you have too keep in mind that Molten Whip is Fire Damage and Focus only Magic Damage. Yes the Twilight heal sucks. Breath of Life isn't just a self-heal too and is way stronger... But that doesn't belong too this thread. Sorcs just don't have a reliable heal.

Hmmm, my stam sorc on PvP heals for 5k, and that's 3 guys at the same time. It doesn't suck at all considering that the matriarch also do dmg.

BoL is just a heal. It doesn't have a pet associated. If you want a TM healing as a templar level, then you should kiss good bye the Matriarch (and the Clanfear as well)

IMHO the heal is OK.

Regarding flame dmg in this game, it sucks. Not much as poison dmg, but it sucks anyway. It suck even more in a DK who doesn't have a passive that increaes its dmg. It sucks because poison and flame dmg are the only statuses that have no debuff associated (just a lame passive in the ardent flame line). It sucks because it pigeoholes you into building in certain way, and that playing style is not effective.
On a magblade, grim focus is great because all mageblade skills are magic dmg. That allows you to use a set like WarMaiden. On a DK flame dmg sucks because the best support skills are not flame dmg (with the exception of talons and flame reach). In fact, a lightning staff is more useful on a DK since it has a chance to proc concussion and set enemy off balance through blockade. Not to mention it increases AoE dmg (making Inhale a better skill).

DKs have been overnerfed all these years. One buff (which was not even the strongest one) to wings and here we are again asking for nerfs to DKs. I wish some day ZoS take the right decision deleting the class.

Running a lightning staff in PvP isn't an option for DK if you wanna survive somehow. It might be an option in PvE. And yes the twighlight does also deal damage but it takes two slots away so it takes one of your heal and one of an damage ability. I don't care about healing 3 targets if im running alone. Flame damage is strong against Vampires and burning isn't weak at all. I don't know what kind of builds you play but it seems weird.

BlackMadara

@Ryanoxx The twilight heal scales really well, but it scales off of max magicka, not spell damage. That may be the reason you are seeing lower numbers.

I see you run SnB in your vid and that may affect your opinion on staves in PvP. I run a flame staff front bar and ice staff back bar. The flame staff la weaves adds a lot of damage, and the destro staff passives increase the chance to proc burning. I agree with you flame damage is strong. Burning proc is a moderately strong DoT. To alleviate the drop in resists and lack of blocking front bar with a fire staff, i run Cauterize. It is an excellent HoT, as long as it hits you, and more than makes up for a lack of SnB.

The change to searing heat increasing all flame damage would probably be too much in PvE. I have seen suggestions to increase only DoT damage in execute range, which I think better fits the theme of DK.

What is your issue with mDK having a high burst damage skill outside of ultimate? Nightblades and Sorcs have access to such a thing with grim focus and frags, respectively. Those classes also have built in executes. Wardens have Scorch and the upcoming Necro has blast bones. Even Templars have dark flare, which is weaker than the previous skills imo. Half of these other classes also have executes built into the class. I see no issues with the Molten Whip burst, especially since it has such cost inefficient proc conditions and you give up the strong heal of power lash.

Savos_Saren

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

For me the Molten Whip tool and Grim Focus tool are the same but you have too keep in mind that Molten Whip is Fire Damage and Focus only Magic Damage. Yes the Twilight heal sucks. Breath of Life isn't just a self-heal too and is way stronger... But that doesn't belong too this thread. Sorcs just don't have a reliable heal.

Don't forget that Grim Focus can hit you from 28+ meters away while Molten Whip is limited to melee. There's a slight advantage in that aspect.

Quasaur

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

I, too, main magDK/magsorc and you could've fooled me into thinking you were a stamDK with some of those proposed nerfs to magDK. I find it rare to land a powerlash (or leap) in PvP, everyone gets out of talons/fossilize ASAP, so the heal should be strong, though I probably won't slot it next patch with the changes to immobilization. I will miss wings keeping the bow-gankers from bothering me from 41+m away.

Your FoO/Cauterize, Combustion, Searing Heat, Scaled Armor, and Mountain's Blessing ideas I support.

I didn't have time to watch the video, sorry.

Tonnopesce

Really nice honestly

Baphomet

With power lash being nigh impossible to execute, because it is so tricky to set up with the current mechanics, the reward for pulling it off should definately be an undodgeable attack.

DKs don't have access to that base ability that has 18-19k tooltip damage like most other classes, so they deserve something to compensate.

Powerlash is something that almost only happen now in laggy conditions.

Also, DKs should also get a flat 6% damage boost to all fire attacks like wardens and sorcs do to their elements.

Furthermore, restore the 8m radius on Talons.

Ryanoxx

BlackMadara wrote: »

@Ryanoxx The twilight heal scales really well, but it scales off of max magicka, not spell damage. That may be the reason you are seeing lower numbers.

I see you run SnB in your vid and that may affect your opinion on staves in PvP. I run a flame staff front bar and ice staff back bar. The flame staff la weaves adds a lot of damage, and the destro staff passives increase the chance to proc burning. I agree with you flame damage is strong. Burning proc is a moderately strong DoT. To alleviate the drop in resists and lack of blocking front bar with a fire staff, i run Cauterize. It is an excellent HoT, as long as it hits you, and more than makes up for a lack of SnB.

The change to searing heat increasing all flame damage would probably be too much in PvE. I have seen suggestions to increase only DoT damage in execute range, which I think better fits the theme of DK.

What is your issue with mDK having a high burst damage skill outside of ultimate? Nightblades and Sorcs have access to such a thing with grim focus and frags, respectively. Those classes also have built in executes. Wardens have Scorch and the upcoming Necro has blast bones. Even Templars have dark flare, which is weaker than the previous skills imo. Half of these other classes also have executes built into the class. I see no issues with the Molten Whip burst, especially since it has such cost inefficient proc conditions and you give up the strong heal of power lash.

I have nothing against burst but thats just not the way to give MagDk burst. In the video I run snb thats true but I have played pretty much everything playable on MagDK. I used Fire/Ice Staff, Fire/Restro Staff, Snb/Restro, Snb/Fire, Snb/Ice and 2h/Restro. Running a firestaff is good for your damage but the defense is way too bad. The only one I know who mastered running a firestaff in an effective way is Skaffa or his new name Sanguivoria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFMdRAAJ6cw&amp;t=314s

However, MagDk in 1vX is really bad and it is pretty much impossible to kill anything if you wanna be able to survive. Ofc there are really bad players that you can kill in 1vX as well but it is sad that MagDk has such extreme issues. Giving MagDk Molten for burst would still make 1vX impossible because you have to run Flame Lash for the heal. Also running Molten would be pretty much impossible because you don't have the skill slots to slot more ardent flame abilities. This way zenimax just buffs zerglings and solo, as well as smallscale players are left out again. It seems like they want to force everyone to run in 20 player groups which I personally hate because there I nothing much you have to do in there and it just gets boring after seconds.

Ryanoxx

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

The twighlight heal sucks? You know the Twilight is not a self-heal?

Regarding the new Molten whip, it is similar to Grim Focus. Imho Focus was never an overperforming skill per se when it needed 6-8 LA to proc assa will (including minor berserk). New whip is strong but not as strong as grim focus pre.Elsweyr and it requires the same weird mechanics to do dmg (or even weirder)

For me the Molten Whip tool and Grim Focus tool are the same but you have too keep in mind that Molten Whip is Fire Damage and Focus only Magic Damage. Yes the Twilight heal sucks. Breath of Life isn't just a self-heal too and is way stronger... But that doesn't belong too this thread. Sorcs just don't have a reliable heal.

Don't forget that Grim Focus can hit you from 28+ meters away while Molten Whip is limited to melee. There's a slight advantage in that aspect.

True, I forgot about that. You're right, the range is a clear disadvantage for Whip. I don't like it though. It still deals too much damage for a spammable. Apart from that it just buffs zerglings. As a Solo or Smallscale player you have no chance to drop Flame Lash because of the heal and you can't drop as many abilities to slot more Ardent Flame abilities. Making a Spammable a burst ability is not a good Idea. Thats why I suggest giving Dks more damage but in another way as I described through passives or other abilities like Flames of Oblivion that are mean't to be burst.

Ryanoxx

Quasaur wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

While I think your suggestions are decent- it does look like you're trying to buff StamDK and nerf MagDK. Yes, I can see that you're asking for some of both of their passives to be improved- but saying things like:

"Flame Lash: Reduce the healing from Powerlash by 10%. Offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power." When stam toons already run around on heavy armor (defensive) builds with high damage (ie: Fury/Seventh Legion) is a little hypocritical.

Also, with the idea of giving a StamDK a stamwhip- you're suggesting a spammable, high damage ability that you can combine with an execute from 2H, DW, or Bow. I don't mind this idea- since NBs have the same concept... but MagDKs can't combine their whip with any form of magicka-based weapon execute. If you think MagDKs would be overpowered with both a whip and execute- perhaps you should consider how this might throw off a StamDK's balance.

I'm also guessing that you're suggesting a nerf to mDK's Coagulating Blood because it'll be easier for you as a StamDK to kill them. Resolving Vigor is already a good skill for stamina-based characters and with the nerf to an mDK's Wings- I can see why ZOS would have improved their healing.

Most of your suggestions sound pretty good, though.

You have misunderstood something here xD I never played stamDk. The ony stamclass I've tried is Stamblade and Stamsorc for a couple days. I main MagDk and MagSorc. I totally understand your point. These Changes aren't meant to be the only that have to be done. This is just a small portion of what I have in my mind. Heavy armor sets should be changed, to be more tank focused. As I said offensive abilities shouldn't have too much defensive power. The same counts for heavy armor sets having too much offensive power. Heals in the game of way too high anyways, except Sorcs. The Twighlight heal sucks compared to other burstheals which is ok because of the offensive pressure the pet applies as well, keep in mind it takes the slot for 2 abilities though but thats another thing. I don't think anything has too be nerfed or buffed. Change is a better term because classes lack something but have something strong in return. What I see being a problem is that my MagDk heals for 12k with Dragonblood in PvP without Major Mending! I do like being strong but this is just too much, making it impossible to kill me if I slot snb. Also the new Molten Whip hits for 9k on heavy armor targets with 2.5k Crit Resistance in PvP. This seems way too high since it's the same damage as my ultimate does. This way I can leap on my enemy for 9k and stun them, Flames of Oblivion procs for 3k and I use molten for 9k. Thats 21k damage in an unavoidable combo. These numbers are with my dueling build to be fair, which is full damage. However, with this combo and my dot tiks it's pretty much impossible to survive it without being in heavy armor with more than 25k health and HoTs. With maim on me the numbers would be a little lower. I know that MagDk is in a bad spot in PvE atm and we need to fix it. Major issues are MagDks bad sustain, their low execute damage, in PvP in addition their bad mobility, not having any purge or dot surpression and the inability to survive without snb. The "nerf" to wings isn't as bad as people claim it to be. Yes, there is less cheese because you can't spam wings to reflect everything but that is a good change because it was damn annoying to everyone. Instead of just reflecting 4 projectiles though you can reduce the damage of all incomming projectiles for 6 seconds by 50%. This is way more consistant and a reasonable change. I wasn't happy when I heard it first but I enjoy it. Flame Lash isn't overpowered at all. It needs some changes that I will add as well. For example Flame Lash should stay dodgable but Power Lash should be undodgable. Such a heal on an offensive ability is too high though. On my MagDk I heal with Power Lash most of the time and don't need Dragon Blood. I only use it if the proc failed or if I have no enemy nearby. Adding some execute power to MagDk would be good but I don't have solutions for everything :< Making a passive increasing damage against targets below 25% health wouldn't be good because it would be too much for stamDks which already have access to an execute. I would slowely make changes and test them on Pts. Changing the numbers by too many percent would result in a mess like it always does. Classes should be unique but their strengh should be on par.

In conclusion, these can't be the only changes made and magDks Dps in PvE would probably be too low and it would suck in 1vX anyway but it is a start without breaking PvP experience. The Necro is way too strong as well btw. So don't take these as nerf or buff to anything. The changes I would want to see are focused to balance a class in certain areas and not make it worse or better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKQArM7_8A&amp;t=404s

This is what I used to enjoy. A the moment it's pretty much impossible to get good 1vX on a MagDk so I'm shifting more towards my other main which is MagSorc.

I, too, main magDK/magsorc and you could've fooled me into thinking you were a stamDK with some of those proposed nerfs to magDK. I find it rare to land a powerlash (or leap) in PvP, everyone gets out of talons/fossilize ASAP, so the heal should be strong, though I probably won't slot it next patch with the changes to immobilization. I will miss wings keeping the bow-gankers from bothering me from 41+m away.

Your FoO/Cauterize, Combustion, Searing Heat, Scaled Armor, and Mountain's Blessing ideas I support.

I didn't have time to watch the video, sorry.

You don't have to watch the video x) I agree that MagDk is in a bad spot. My intention wasn't to nerf it but to change it in a more balanced way. I also don't like the idea of making Molten Whip a spammable burst. Zenimax should rather make Flames of Oblivion a burst ability or change Inhale that it increases the damage the more enemies there are. I added that Power Lash should be undodgable. And I agree. Talons are a big problem in elsweyr because of the root cooldown.

Ryanoxx

Baphomet wrote: »

With power lash being nigh impossible to execute, because it is so tricky to set up with the current mechanics, the reward for pulling it off should definately be an undodgeable attack.

DKs don't have access to that base ability that has 18-19k tooltip damage like most other classes, so they deserve something to compensate.

Powerlash is something that almost only happen now in laggy conditions.

Also, DKs should also get a flat 6% damage boost to all fire attacks like wardens and sorcs do to their elements.

Furthermore, restore the 8m radius on Talons.

I have added that the Power Lash proc should be undodgable. I don't think putting the high tool for burst on a spammable is the right way though. It would be better to make another ability burst like Flames of Oblivion since it's meant to be burst. Putting it on Molten Whip is bad for PvP because Zerglings will be able to use it but it won't be usable by solo or smallscale players because they need the heal. I'll increase the 5% fire damage passive I made to 6%.

BlackMadara

Ryanoxx wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

@Ryanoxx The twilight heal scales really well, but it scales off of max magicka, not spell damage. That may be the reason you are seeing lower numbers.

I see you run SnB in your vid and that may affect your opinion on staves in PvP. I run a flame staff front bar and ice staff back bar. The flame staff la weaves adds a lot of damage, and the destro staff passives increase the chance to proc burning. I agree with you flame damage is strong. Burning proc is a moderately strong DoT. To alleviate the drop in resists and lack of blocking front bar with a fire staff, i run Cauterize. It is an excellent HoT, as long as it hits you, and more than makes up for a lack of SnB.

The change to searing heat increasing all flame damage would probably be too much in PvE. I have seen suggestions to increase only DoT damage in execute range, which I think better fits the theme of DK.

What is your issue with mDK having a high burst damage skill outside of ultimate? Nightblades and Sorcs have access to such a thing with grim focus and frags, respectively. Those classes also have built in executes. Wardens have Scorch and the upcoming Necro has blast bones. Even Templars have dark flare, which is weaker than the previous skills imo. Half of these other classes also have executes built into the class. I see no issues with the Molten Whip burst, especially since it has such cost inefficient proc conditions and you give up the strong heal of power lash.

I have nothing against burst but thats just not the way to give MagDk burst. In the video I run snb thats true but I have played pretty much everything playable on MagDK. I used Fire/Ice Staff, Fire/Restro Staff, Snb/Restro, Snb/Fire, Snb/Ice and 2h/Restro. Running a firestaff is good for your damage but the defense is way too bad. The only one I know who mastered running a firestaff in an effective way is Skaffa or his new name Sanguivoria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFMdRAAJ6cw&amp;t=314s

However, MagDk in 1vX is really bad and it is pretty much impossible to kill anything if you wanna be able to survive. Ofc there are really bad players that you can kill in 1vX as well but it is sad that MagDk has such extreme issues. Giving MagDk Molten for burst would still make 1vX impossible because you have to run Flame Lash for the heal. Also running Molten would be pretty much impossible because you don't have the skill slots to slot more ardent flame abilities. This way zenimax just buffs zerglings and solo, as well as smallscale players are left out again. It seems like they want to force everyone to run in 20 player groups which I personally hate because there I nothing much you have to do in there and it just gets boring after seconds.

I have also run a multitude of weapon combinations, and have found that flame staff syncs well with my particular playstyle.

There are very few things one can change about this, or any, game that will benefit a small group vs a large group. Power in numbers is a thing. It allows for specialization.

I am going to try molten whip when it goes live. I believe its just going to require an adjustment in play. Currently, mDKs use power lash as a heal, just as often as a burst combo. Molten whip will require better buff and debuff management to allow a safe instance to get off that big combo. Won't really know until you try.

I do agree that putting DK big burst damage ability on a spammable is strange. Placing it on FoO would also be strange as well, since it acts like a delayed PB DoT. It would be interesting if they made FoO deal more damage based on how many flame damage DoTs are on the opponent. This would still tie into the DoT focus of the class, and tie into a possible stacked instance burst combo.

Davadin

I put FoO on my pvp build sDK on live. Those balls are pretty hot at 6k+ !!
Can't wait for June!

Ryanoxx

BlackMadara wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

@Ryanoxx The twilight heal scales really well, but it scales off of max magicka, not spell damage. That may be the reason you are seeing lower numbers.

I see you run SnB in your vid and that may affect your opinion on staves in PvP. I run a flame staff front bar and ice staff back bar. The flame staff la weaves adds a lot of damage, and the destro staff passives increase the chance to proc burning. I agree with you flame damage is strong. Burning proc is a moderately strong DoT. To alleviate the drop in resists and lack of blocking front bar with a fire staff, i run Cauterize. It is an excellent HoT, as long as it hits you, and more than makes up for a lack of SnB.

The change to searing heat increasing all flame damage would probably be too much in PvE. I have seen suggestions to increase only DoT damage in execute range, which I think better fits the theme of DK.

What is your issue with mDK having a high burst damage skill outside of ultimate? Nightblades and Sorcs have access to such a thing with grim focus and frags, respectively. Those classes also have built in executes. Wardens have Scorch and the upcoming Necro has blast bones. Even Templars have dark flare, which is weaker than the previous skills imo. Half of these other classes also have executes built into the class. I see no issues with the Molten Whip burst, especially since it has such cost inefficient proc conditions and you give up the strong heal of power lash.

I have nothing against burst but thats just not the way to give MagDk burst. In the video I run snb thats true but I have played pretty much everything playable on MagDK. I used Fire/Ice Staff, Fire/Restro Staff, Snb/Restro, Snb/Fire, Snb/Ice and 2h/Restro. Running a firestaff is good for your damage but the defense is way too bad. The only one I know who mastered running a firestaff in an effective way is Skaffa or his new name Sanguivoria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFMdRAAJ6cw&amp;t=314s

However, MagDk in 1vX is really bad and it is pretty much impossible to kill anything if you wanna be able to survive. Ofc there are really bad players that you can kill in 1vX as well but it is sad that MagDk has such extreme issues. Giving MagDk Molten for burst would still make 1vX impossible because you have to run Flame Lash for the heal. Also running Molten would be pretty much impossible because you don't have the skill slots to slot more ardent flame abilities. This way zenimax just buffs zerglings and solo, as well as smallscale players are left out again. It seems like they want to force everyone to run in 20 player groups which I personally hate because there I nothing much you have to do in there and it just gets boring after seconds.

I have also run a multitude of weapon combinations, and have found that flame staff syncs well with my particular playstyle.

There are very few things one can change about this, or any, game that will benefit a small group vs a large group. Power in numbers is a thing. It allows for specialization.

I am going to try molten whip when it goes live. I believe its just going to require an adjustment in play. Currently, mDKs use power lash as a heal, just as often as a burst combo. Molten whip will require better buff and debuff management to allow a safe instance to get off that big combo. Won't really know until you try.

I do agree that putting DK big burst damage ability on a spammable is strange. Placing it on FoO would also be strange as well, since it acts like a delayed PB DoT. It would be interesting if they made FoO deal more damage based on how many flame damage DoTs are on the opponent. This would still tie into the DoT focus of the class, and tie into a possible stacked instance burst combo.

Well Hunting Curse is burst and functions similar to Flames of Oblivion. So I wouldn't think it would be strange. I can't run Molten because I can't slot as many Ardent Flame abilties because there are too many abilities required in cyrodiil. I'll try it on a fun build though where I'll go for burst and not the most effective.

Arcanasx

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

"Molten Armaments: Instead of increasing the damage of fully-charged Heavy Attacks this morph should, while being active, increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 75 every time you activate a class ability. This bonus could stack up to 3 times and would last for 5 seconds."

"This change would give this ability a purpose. Right now it is better to run Spellpower Potions or Entropie to get the Major Sorcery. Adding a bonus similar to the (due to the Poison Lash missing) Seething Fury bonus from Molten Whip would make this ability interesting to use."

This is a terrible change. Not only would you be taking away a very unique skill available to DKs that like to use heavy attacks, but literally slotting this just so you can activate this and do a little more weapon/magic damage with no other effect would be extremely dull.

Having to use a spellpower potion for major sorcery takes away potion options such as tri pots for mDKs. And entropy does not proc earthen heart passives which molten armaments currently does. Just because you don't use molten armaments doesn't mean that others are not using it.

Who plays with fully-charged Heavy Attacks? It is completely ineffective and I've never seen someone using Molten Armaments. Yes it procs Helping Hands but just every 36 seconds which is pretty useless, it's a lot more realistic to use skills like Petrify or Obsidian Shield to proc the Passive. This ability would not have just that effect, I didn't say remove the Major Sorcery. I would give Major Sorcery and give u the additional bonus. This isn't dull, it makes a dead ability useful again. Molten Armaments costs 3 times as much as Entropie, doesn't give a 2% bonus to your maximum Magicka and magicka recovery. In addition Entropie procs Empower increasing the damage of the next lightattack by 40% which is a lot easier to use and also applies a little Dot. If you morph it you also gain a Heal or Healthbonus. Where is the reason to use Molten Armaments? Also Heavy Attacks have changed their purpose to restore ressources and not dealing huge damage. This ability just doesn't have a place in the game anymore. Using Spellpowerpotions is also the most normal thing in PvE. Noone would get the idea to run a Spellpower buff on their Skillbar because it would result in a lot less dmg. You could do that in Dungeons but not in Veteran Trials. Are you playing with Armaments?

Yes I do use molten armaments for my stam dk; I'm mainly into PvP, but I do play PvE as well. The increase in HA damage is great for my HA based build. I do very well for myself in high MMR BGs and I'm decent at dueling as well. So the skill is not useless, it has its purpose. I can put on a lot of single target pressure and barely lose resources because those heavy attacks also sustain me.

For CP when you combine this skill with the passive that increases your LA/HA damage and utilise the tactician perk that sets them off balance, you can do a lot of burst damage. It creates interesting gameplay options for dks; gives you something to do other than rely on the typical LA/Heroic Slash/Bash weaves if you're stam. Just because you cannot find a use for an ability doesn't mean its as useless as you make it out to be.

Ryanoxx

Arcanasx wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

"Molten Armaments: Instead of increasing the damage of fully-charged Heavy Attacks this morph should, while being active, increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 75 every time you activate a class ability. This bonus could stack up to 3 times and would last for 5 seconds."

"This change would give this ability a purpose. Right now it is better to run Spellpower Potions or Entropie to get the Major Sorcery. Adding a bonus similar to the (due to the Poison Lash missing) Seething Fury bonus from Molten Whip would make this ability interesting to use."

This is a terrible change. Not only would you be taking away a very unique skill available to DKs that like to use heavy attacks, but literally slotting this just so you can activate this and do a little more weapon/magic damage with no other effect would be extremely dull.

Having to use a spellpower potion for major sorcery takes away potion options such as tri pots for mDKs. And entropy does not proc earthen heart passives which molten armaments currently does. Just because you don't use molten armaments doesn't mean that others are not using it.

Who plays with fully-charged Heavy Attacks? It is completely ineffective and I've never seen someone using Molten Armaments. Yes it procs Helping Hands but just every 36 seconds which is pretty useless, it's a lot more realistic to use skills like Petrify or Obsidian Shield to proc the Passive. This ability would not have just that effect, I didn't say remove the Major Sorcery. I would give Major Sorcery and give u the additional bonus. This isn't dull, it makes a dead ability useful again. Molten Armaments costs 3 times as much as Entropie, doesn't give a 2% bonus to your maximum Magicka and magicka recovery. In addition Entropie procs Empower increasing the damage of the next lightattack by 40% which is a lot easier to use and also applies a little Dot. If you morph it you also gain a Heal or Healthbonus. Where is the reason to use Molten Armaments? Also Heavy Attacks have changed their purpose to restore ressources and not dealing huge damage. This ability just doesn't have a place in the game anymore. Using Spellpowerpotions is also the most normal thing in PvE. Noone would get the idea to run a Spellpower buff on their Skillbar because it would result in a lot less dmg. You could do that in Dungeons but not in Veteran Trials. Are you playing with Armaments?

Yes I do use molten armaments for my stam dk; I'm mainly into PvP, but I do play PvE as well. The increase in HA damage is great for my HA based build. I do very well for myself in high MMR BGs and I'm decent at dueling as well. So the skill is not useless, it has its purpose. I can put on a lot of single target pressure and barely lose resources because those heavy attacks also sustain me.

For CP when you combine this skill with the passive that increases your LA/HA damage and utilise the tactician perk that sets them off balance, you can do a lot of burst damage. It creates interesting gameplay options for dks; gives you something to do other than rely on the typical LA/Heroic Slash/Bash weaves if you're stam. Just because you cannot find a use for an ability doesn't mean its as useless as you make it out to be.

Well if this morph seems to have a purpose then just add the bonus to the other morph since it has no additional effect.

Ryanoxx

Davadin wrote: »

I put FoO on my pvp build sDK on live. Those balls are pretty hot at 6k+ !!
Can't wait for June!

Yes!

Ryanoxx

Xvorg wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Whip is a bad spammable... I still think poison whip will be worse than puncture, heroic or whirlwind blades. Even the new flurry is much better.

MDKs use whip just because there's no other melee magicka skill. Make pierce armor a magicka skill and no DK would ever use whip.

Thats not true, in PvE Stamdks use Noxious Breath as spammable in the current state of Pts. Even if Pierce Armor was a magicka skill there would be no reason to run it. I play MagDk since 2 years and I would not drop Whip. Powerlash provides good damage and even a heal. Whip is not a bad spammable. A Poison Whip would set enemies off balance so stamdks could use the truth set for example.

It is slow, it is dodgeable (telegraphed from the other side of tamriel) It depends of a very unreliable mechanic to do high dmg and a decent heal. Its proc has a cooldown (a very long one and the only one in the whole game), it is very expesive on a class that has problem with sustain. It is used by mDKs just because there's no other option, not because it is good. If elemental weapon was less clunky it would be a nice option, giving you extra magicka, or minor vulnerability/maim to the enemy

Regarding sDKs, the new noxious just do what it has to do, high dmg and applying major fracture, which makes claw hit harder. It seems as a much better option than poison whip will ever be... consider Noxious not only is undodgeable, but it's also quite helpful against NBs.

Flame Lash has gone from a good skill to a crappy skill in all the patches since Morrowind. It lost it free proc (which was not free in the first place since you needed to set the enemy off balance and that costs resources), it lost its stun, it was made dodgeable, it was given a cooldown and, due to a strange way of balancing things on ZoS side, its reach was reduced from 8 mts to 5 (7 if you have Elder Dragon). 5 nerfes in 2 or 3 patches. Oh, it got an increased heal (not very necesary on a class that already has 3 heals in the same line whip is located)

If you say whip is good, then you are playing pre-morrowind, which was a very good patch imho (and I would like to play it too).

On the bright side, whip looks cool, but nothing else.

So, Poison whip doing strong dmg... I don't think so... the sole idea implies to copy mDK playing style and what stam DKs needs is not that. What stam DK needs is a better synergy with weapon lines. Stam DK should be the Man-at-Arms of ESO (it is the Knight, for Talos' sake!!) and not the slow brother Kobra Khan (MotU reference btw)

One thing that just came to my mind. If Whip is such a bad spammable why did everyone use it in PvE? In PvE Elemental Weapon doesn't feel clunky at all.