What were your biggest problems when entering PvP?

InvictusApollo

The PvP playerbase has diminished over the years. PvE players sometimes try PvP but they often drop out. I would like to ask what were your biggest problems/challenges that you had to solve when you entered PvP. Please describe them and tell us your solutions.

I hope that this thread will give some insight to ZOS on how to make it easier for PvE players or just new players to enter and actually enjoy PvP.
If it won't then maybe at least it will help some new players with their entry to PvP.

Minno

My opinion is N/A. I entered Cyro when light armor vamp DKs were OP and impulse was the defacto zergling spell.

But I will say confidence and knowledge in PVP are the hardest challenges to muster.

Nevasca

Knowing when you have to block/dodge. What certain clases can and can't do. Which targets to go first, when you have to go ham and when you have to GTFO. PvP game sense in general.

EDIT: And obviously, learning your class in general. For example, on a magNB you probably won't kill any decent player without a SH+Fear+Bow kill combo.

Gilvoth

pve players normaly have no need for im-penetration trait in their armor, thus they die within 1 or 2 hits in a pvp environment.
if they had more knowledge about that option upon entering the pvp area then im sure they would have not died as easily, thus making the entire pvp experience much more enjoyable and fun.

in addition:
a Greater majority of the entire pvp experience in eso to new players and those whom are unaware is Heavily geared for and trained to be solely dependent on exploits and glitches to gain kills and win in cryodiil and all pvp areas.
the current naming of those things is by many called "skilled" even though there is zero skill involved in using those exploits other than the fact they have made an art form out of those exploits and game glitches.

mursie

premades smashing pugs in bg's is a significant deterrent to future participation by pugs (especially pve pugs dipping their toes into the pvp waters).

create a solo que only bg, maintain an MMR that can equally distribute players randomly to each team...and I think participation can and will increase.

VaranisArano

Once I finally went to Cyrodiil to PVP:

1. Not knowing how to find fights
Discovery: crossed swords, zone chat callouts, and slowly learning to go to the often contested keeps.

2. Having too slow a horse to get to fights once I figured out how/where to find them
Discovery: my guar looks majestic loping along at 20 mount speed, but I really, really have to run like a sprinting chicken at 60 mount speed + rapids

3. Dying in a couple seconds once a fight found me
Discovery: impen trait, high health gear let me survive long enough to learn from what was killing me.

4. Once I could survive, not understanding how to be useful in battle/actually killing players.
Discovery: I learned a lot from grouping up with experienced PVPers who were willing to teach and train, helping me refine my PVP with what they already knew.

Finally, persistence, perseverance, and practice. Lots of practice.

The biggest difference between a PVEer who comes and goes from PVP, and a PVEer who becomes a PVPer is simply that one player keeps coming back, keeps dying, keeps playing, and keeps learning how to PVP. Practice, and more practice.

Aedaryl

Gilvoth wrote: »

in addition:
a Greater majority of the entire pvp experience in eso to new players and those whom are unaware is Heavily geared for and trained to be solely dependent on exploits and glitches to gain kills and win in cryodiil and all pvp areas.
the current naming of those things is by many called "skilled" even though there is zero skill involved in using those exploits other than the fact they have made an art form out of those exploits and game glitches.

What ?

Gilvoth

.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

in addition:
a Greater majority of the entire pvp experience in eso to new players and those whom are unaware is Heavily geared for and trained to be solely dependent on exploits and glitches to gain kills and win in cryodiil and all pvp areas.
the current naming of those things is by many called "skilled" even though there is zero skill involved in using those exploits other than the fact they have made an art form out of those exploits and game glitches.

What ?

the list of exploits, glitches, is Very long and many PvE players and those new to eso have no knowledge of those existing problems in eso. and many pvpers call the use of those exploits and glitches as "skilled" play, even though there is zero skill involved in the use of those exploits and glitches.

i have some examples of just a few from the list from times past in threads you may be aware of that i can list here as perhaps help in understanding what i am referring to.
even though they may be old threads they still pose problems even in todays eso pvp experience, and might help shed some light on how to answer your question.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393252/cc-immunity-is-broken-1-5s-2s-stuck-after-breaking-a-cc#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408225/is-20k-bash-hit-op#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/412066/aed-pvp-sorc-ready-for-summerset#latest

Loralai_907

It took me a really long time to enter Cyro for the first time. I'd watched streamers for ages and it all looked super fun, but having the anxiety I was pretty nervous to go out there. I had it in my head that people would be mean, that my being new would be obvious and people would want me to take that newness and go away. So one night, during an event, I decided that it was the perfect time since there would probably be all sorts of new people out there so I could maybe mask my being awful a little bit. Had a couple shots and off I went. It was terrifying, and I died a lot. But no one was mean, no one gave me a hard time. And I kept going back. The biggest thing for me was I did not want to be hindrance, I wanted to be able to help. So I paid attention to what people were saying, what people did, how they put up siege, etc. I learned over time how to be more useful. I switched characters. And in the almost 2 years now that I have been out there, only 1 person on my side of the battle has ever been a jackhole. Only a couple from opposing teams have felt the need to tell me how bad I was when I was new. It was completely not what I thought I was going to be walking into. And I appreciate that. I think if people were actually total crap right from the beginning I would not have stuck with it. So if what is keeping a new person out is fear, come play with us. I promise it isn't so bad. And if you want to run around with me, someone else that has had the fear, lets go.

Mrsinister2

First hard part was even finding people I couldn't figure out how to leave the starting base for a while and got stuck on really long walls that went no where

Not knowing you need more then 9k Stam on a mag toon hurt me forever.

Finally finding someone and exploding in one global cool down taught me nothing.

Not knowing impen is a absolute must is a big one.

High cp people swarming to the lowbie doesn't help what so ever and goes back to exploding in a second.

A better opening tutorial would help a bit I suppose but it really seems you either stick it out and die a ton or you quit. If I just knew I needed impen and wildly different stats then pve it wouldn't have been such a rough start.

Iskiab

My experience was pretty much the same as others.

- not knowing how important resistances are
- Not knowing how important crit resists are

When I first tried pvp I would get killed in less than 2 seconds. There’s no way I would have continued without a pvp background. Like 0, I would have said wtf and never queued again.

Despite what people think the TTK is too low, they should add another 5k health to battle spirit and add a crit resists mundus.

People say, ‘no one will ever die if you do this’... well no guff when everyone’s Basicly 1/3 or 2/3 tank spec’d. Tanks aren’t supposed to be able to kill anyone.

Durham

It's simple Lag is the single biggest issue in Cyrodiil.

Na0cho

Too much running and riding to get fights.

Thank god for bg’s

Goregrinder

Getting killed was my biggest hurdle. My solution was to get killed less.

kollege14a5

Lag

kylewwefan

The first time I entered Cyrodil my biggest problem was figuring out how to get back out of Cyrodil.

Time goes on and social guild I was in goes to the Imperial City Arena district for hours of mayhem. Remember back when that spot was popping all nite?
That posed some big problems just getting there even. That will now be fixed, but I still doubt the city regaining its former glory.

Most players still now go there at least to get lorebooks, vigor and warhorn and other alliance skills. That was fixed a long time ago. It used to require a lot more AP to unlock vigor.

Now, my biggest problem with Cyrodil is getting in there, doing stuff all nite; then dragging myself to bed at 1:00 am having to get back up at 5:00 am for work. You’re always gonna be right in the middle of doing something

Battlegrounds kind of have a one up on being able to keep track of time better. And like, getting stuff accomplished and wat not.

As others have stated, if they could fix the lag a bit, the epic Zerg fights would be more entertaining.

The difference impen gear make is night and day. That could also be stressed to noobs a bit more.

Juhasow

Performance

Flame_of_Hades

Gilvoth wrote: »

.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

in addition:please
a Greater majority of the entire pvp experience in eso to new players and those whom are unaware is Heavily geared for and trained to be solely dependent on exploits and glitches to gain kills and win in cryodiil and all pvp areas.
the current naming of those things is by many called "skilled" even though there is zero skill involved in using those exploits other than the fact they have made an art form out of those exploits and game glitches.

What ?

the list of exploits, glitches, is Very long and many PvE players and those new to eso have no knowledge of those existing problems in eso. and many pvpers call the use of those exploits and glitches as "skilled" play, even though there is zero skill involved in the use of those exploits and glitches.

i have some examples of just a few from the list from times past in threads you may be aware of that i can list here as perhaps help in understanding what i am referring to.
even though they may be old threads they still pose problems even in todays eso pvp experience, and might help shed some light on how to answer your question.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393252/cc-immunity-is-broken-1-5s-2s-stuck-after-breaking-a-cc#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408225/is-20k-bash-hit-op#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/412066/aed-pvp-sorc-ready-for-summerset#latest

......................................................................
A lag "bug" that cannot be replicated (at least when intended)

A PTS bug that got patched before live...

The only thing KINDA close is your 3rd link, and most people get shamed for running cheese specs... it's not called skill...

We get it, you hate pvp, but please at least have valid reasons for hating pvp if you are going to post said reasons. It took me 30 seconds of reading through those posts to find out that they didn't support what you were saying at all.

Gilvoth

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

in addition:please
a Greater majority of the entire pvp experience in eso to new players and those whom are unaware is Heavily geared for and trained to be solely dependent on exploits and glitches to gain kills and win in cryodiil and all pvp areas.
the current naming of those things is by many called "skilled" even though there is zero skill involved in using those exploits other than the fact they have made an art form out of those exploits and game glitches.

What ?

the list of exploits, glitches, is Very long and many PvE players and those new to eso have no knowledge of those existing problems in eso. and many pvpers call the use of those exploits and glitches as "skilled" play, even though there is zero skill involved in the use of those exploits and glitches.

i have some examples of just a few from the list from times past in threads you may be aware of that i can list here as perhaps help in understanding what i am referring to.
even though they may be old threads they still pose problems even in todays eso pvp experience, and might help shed some light on how to answer your question.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393252/cc-immunity-is-broken-1-5s-2s-stuck-after-breaking-a-cc#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408225/is-20k-bash-hit-op#latest

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/412066/aed-pvp-sorc-ready-for-summerset#latest

......................................................................
A lag "bug" that cannot be replicated (at least when intended)

A PTS bug that got patched before live...

The only thing KINDA close is your 3rd link, and most people get shamed for running cheese specs... it's not called skill...

We get it, you hate pvp, but please at least have valid reasons for hating pvp if you are going to post said reasons. It took me 30 seconds of reading through those posts to find out that they didn't support what you were saying at all.

i love pvp, the only reason i play eso is for the pvp and having others to play with in pvp.
he asked why and i gave him what he asked for: an answer to why i made the comment i made.
and i stand by those comments.

Heimpai

Constantly hitting the wrong keys, first game i played on pc without a controller

Glad i stuck with it tho, mmorpg‘s or atleast ESO is great

chris211

InvictusApollo wrote: »

The PvP playerbase has diminished over the years. PvE players sometimes try PvP but they often drop out. I would like to ask what were your biggest problems/challenges that you had to solve when you entered PvP. Please describe them and tell us your solutions.

I hope that this thread will give some insight to ZOS on how to make it easier for PvE players or just new players to enter and actually enjoy PvP.
If it won't then maybe at least it will help some new players with their entry to PvP.

pvp is a joke you have trashcans spamming snipe from 40 meters away small scale/solo play is dead/dying everyone is a tank bgs are a meme nothing but zergs in open world etc.....

Glory

I have played since launch, and other MMOs before that.

I think ESO like many other PvP MMOs suffers from a very steep learning curve. Without any real MMR systems (BGs I guess), people enter PvP zones and get insta'ed without having any learning moments.

You can easily enter PvP and encounter unfair scenarios (zergs when solo, BGs against premades, even 1v1 against experienced PvPers) where nothing is learned and it likely becomes repetitive deaths that feel like you have no control over.

Lumenn

I'm still fairly new to PvP(just BGs for now) the biggest issue I had was learning to target. Everyone's moving so fast and trying to line up your crosshairs on an Xbox can be rough at first with a bunch of cracked up squirrels jumping around with flashing lights(adjust your spell effects too). It didn't help that I went in with a dk stand your ground (at least until I learned to root the happy, flying squirrels for a second or two)

Anyone learning now just know, you will die, and die a lot at first. It gets better, but you still die.

Rikumaru

A zero ulti cost vamp emperor spamming invis bats and 1v300ing. Was pretty epic to fight against but got old fast.

Durham

Lag/performance trumps all this. Just last night in Cyrodiil a new player comes in and in zone asks "how do you people play in this?"

-My jab fails to go off in lag along with many other abilities.
-CC is unbreakable in lag. Groups use this as the main killing tool.
-Bars completely greyed out.
-Permanent sprint players can use no ability.. You have run yourself out of resources.
- in combat bug I was in combat for 20 minutes last night.
-a host of graphic bugs appear in lag for example weapons at feet bug. Weapon dissapeared bug.
- keep doors no working properly cant get in then all the sudden you get in only to be ported right back outside.
- being pulled through doors by chains.

Most of this stuff seems to happen in heavy latency on the server side of things...

Ryori729

BGs so far and one trip into Cyrodiil. I just started playing in Feb and I would say just in April started digging into specs and gear.

My first reaction was "wha?". Don't remember my level at the time (likely about 20), but I might as well have been tickling the other players. Similar on my first alt when I got the BG quest. To me, the gear difference was too much. When it is 3v1 and their health is barely changing it does make it feel like there isn't much point. My thought was that I'd outlevel my gear too fast to make it worth the effort. NOTE: I am a solo player at this point. No RL friends I know play ESO so eventually I'm going to need to find a guild for some parts of the game. Later with higher crafting and mats, gearing likely would be much easier.

Cyrodiil: Too big. I was in there maybe 30 minutes before I saw a person who was moving (saw a couple standing still in the safe zone). I finished a quest step in the Imperial city and got in the sewer. Apparently the sewer is 10x the size of the city (feels like it at least). If there were lots of people I could see how it could be good, but last night was not a good intro. My feeling atm is that once I get out, I won't be back.

Mintaka5

Well, it caters to meta-build players. Skill and in-game experience has nothing to do with it, and I think those players who have the exclusive OP builds are outliers. The average player, the largest population of PvPers, are basically at the mercy of poor game design, and those who exploit builds due to that poor design. This obviously makes for a very bad experience for those who are not capable of one-shotting every other player in Cyrodiil.

It's boring, unegaging, and NOT fun. That's why population is dwindling in Cyrodiil.

Gilvoth

chris211 wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

The PvP playerbase has diminished over the years. PvE players sometimes try PvP but they often drop out. I would like to ask what were your biggest problems/challenges that you had to solve when you entered PvP. Please describe them and tell us your solutions.

I hope that this thread will give some insight to ZOS on how to make it easier for PvE players or just new players to enter and actually enjoy PvP.
If it won't then maybe at least it will help some new players with their entry to PvP.

pvp is a joke you have trashcans spamming snipe from 40 meters away small scale/solo play is dead/dying everyone is a tank bgs are a meme nothing but zergs in open world etc.....

im not a "trash can" for playing as ranged archer style that is in every single mmo that has player v player, well not every single one but 90% does use bow and also uses ranged playstlye.
i need to keep my distance from the enemy or i will die, i also need to stay hidden as a defense or i will die, thats simply how it is done in every single mmo i have ever played, thats also how it works in real life with ranged fighting styles, they have to stay out of sight and at a distance or they will be destroyed.

Zer0_CooL

Anticipation.
Knowing your enemys tactic and counter it. Including knowing each classes strength and weaknes.

Durham

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Well, it caters to meta-build players. Skill and in-game experience has nothing to do with it, and I think those players who have the exclusive OP builds are outliers. The average player, the largest population of PvPers, are basically at the mercy of poor game design, and those who exploit builds due to that poor design. This obviously makes for a very bad experience for those who are not capable of one-shotting every other player in Cyrodiil.

It's boring, unegaging, and NOT fun. That's why population is dwindling in Cyrodiil.

Builds are not as important as you think. Using skills and passives are much more important. The best players in a standard build will wax the floor of average player in the monthly meta build. There is huge learning curve in pvp.. If you duel you will see this up close and personal.

I have dueled people and it did not matter what they tried as far as builds go I beat them easily. I have duel players and i tried all the metas and I could not beat them.. Its simple they are faster and better then I am..

I have been in chats and hear people talk about builds sure they do make difference however I neve r hear he is just a better player...

Ilsabet

I avoided PvP for a long time because I'd been conditioned by a previous game where if you weren't tops in experience/skill/money spent/teaming you'd spend the entire time on the ground and there would be no point. I went to Cyro for the first time with a guild that was doing a skyshard run, and that's what opened the door for me to go back and try actual PvP later.

Some things I learned from that first experience:

• It's possible to go into Cyrodiil and not die, and there's a lot of stuff there that you can just run around and check out and do and it's pretty cool.
• If you die it's not really a big deal. You don't lose exp or gear or anything. It's inconvenient to have to ride back to your group, but it's not the end of the world, and if you have allies around they can rez you.
• Don't fall in the water.
• After the group disbanded and I was just noodling around by myself, I was at an outpost trying to figure out where the shrine thingy was that would take me back to base. I finally found it after someone in guild chat tried to explain it to me, but it didn't work for some reason. About that time I noticed some people trying to knock down the wall, so I hid on the roof until the guards changed to another color and then I jumped off and ran away. In retrospect that was how I learned about keep flipping and how it interferes with transitus travel.

Things I'd want past me to know:

• PvP can be fun even if you're not good at it. You can participate in keep battles and provide support to people who are good at fighting or even zerg surf and you'll still contribute and get stuff out of it. If you want to be really competitive, be prepared to work at it, but don't feel like you have to be that way just to have fun.
• Dying is okay. You don't have to take it personally and PvP is a lot more enjoyable if you don't take it too seriously.
• Bring food and soul gems, and pick up some cheap wall and door repairs. Ballistae are great and so are flaming oils. Be prepared to lose them and have to get more. Pay attention to when bad guys are coming and be ready to hit X to pack up your siege.
• Don't use other people's siege unless they say you can.
• If you get killed by a player or NPC guard you can't rez yourself on the spot. Rezzing allies is important. If you want to port quickly to a keep or outpost that your alliance owns that isn't under attack, you can get yourself killed on purpose to respawn there.
• If you see a group that looks like they know what they're doing, follow them and do what they do. Look for ways to contribute - repairing their siege, healing, rezzing, being on the lookout for incoming enemies.
• Do the tutorial on every character to get Rapids unlocked.
• The basics of getting around in Cyrodiil, how keep battles work, logistical stuff.